Prosecution witness unable to ID Zimmerman at the scene due to severity of his injuries.

[hack89]

Testimony of Jenna Lauer

Things really got interesting when O’Mara started his cross-examination, however. On direct examination de la Rionda had revealed in questioning that Lauer, as a board member of the HOA, had known Zimmerman personally, if only slightly, because of his work with the Neighborhood Watch Program. At one point of the night of the shooting the police had asked Lauer if she would be willing to see if she could identify the man who had identified himself as the shooter.

She was understandably unwilling to come face to face with a person who had just shot someone. Instead, she suggested that they take a picture of the shooter, and she would seek to identify that. The police agreed tot his suggestion, took a photo of Zimmerman’s face as he sat in the patrol car, and showed the picture to Lauer, a woman who had repeatedly seen Zimmerman in HOA-related meetings.

Shockingly, she was unable to identify Zimmerman, because of the severity of his injuries.

O’Mara then asked a few questions that will undoubtedly–if incorrectly–become great overnight fodder for the legal pundits. He asked Lauer if in her personal interactions with Zimmerman he had acted appropriately. Yes, she answered. Did he appear to be a hot head? No. A wannabe vigilante? No. Did he seem to be a well-intentioned neighbor trying to help his community? Yes.

The prosecution witnesses are making it easy for Zimmerman.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-end-of-day-analysis-video-of-states-witnesses//#more

[pipoman]

1. Could be why it took them so long to charge him?

And finally did under the pressure of the public?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Zimmy wouldn't be the first person to start a fight and get his head beat in.

.

[warrior1]

3. because the victim was black

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. and the perpetrator was white

.

[pipoman]

6. hispanic..

[WinkyDink]

24. Spaniards are Caucasian.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

80. All Spaniards are Caucasion? All descendants of Spaniards are Caucasian?

[pipoman]

87. Spaniards..

or Hispanics?..and we all know that those Hispanics aren't discriminated against huh?....nope, they're treated like any other white boy, eh? FFS, who gives a shit how they are classified by some dumbass at the census..

[catbyte]

44. pipoman, it doesn't matter. Zimmerman was several shades lighter.

[pipoman]

88. Truely one of the most disgusting things I've read lately hereabouts..

unless it was sarcasm..

[pipoman]

5. Or because there were no prosecution witnesses..

or witnesses who would be credible in the prosecution more likely..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I suspect most murderers commit their murders with as few people watching as possible.

.

[pipoman]

18. Each case is what it is..

some murderers are never charged, some are charged and acquitted, some are convicted..our system relies on "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt", any other threshold would result in many more innocent people in jail..better a few guilty go free than innocents wrongly convicted imho..

[countingbluecars]

7. And how interesting that

this witness was aware that Zimmerman was accused of domestic violence and assaulting an officer. If the prosecution can get that in it will not be good for Zimmerman. He is a proven hot head.

[hack89]

9. I don't think it was the witness but rather the prosecutor

that wants to present that evidence

He argued that O’Mara’s questioning Lauer about her perceptions based on her personal interactions with ZImmerman had opened the door to allow the State to introduce evidence of specific prior bad acts of Zimmerman.

In particular, he wanted to introduce to specific prior bad acts. The first was the fact that a prior girlfriend/fiance had taken out a restraining order against Zimmerman. The second was that Zimmerman had been arrested for batter on a law enforcement officer. Both had taken place many years prior to the shooting.

Judge Nelson was not prepared to make a decision on the moment, nor was de la Rionda prepared to present a comprehensive argument on the spot, so the matter has been deferred

This particular commentator doesn't think it will fly

Note that Florida allows for proving character by either general reputation or specific instances of a person’s conduct–but not by the mere recollection by a witness of their personal experience with the person. O’Mara asked Lauer neither about Zimmerman’s general reputation nor about any specific prior acts, and therefore did not trigger any complementary privilege on the part of the State to introduce evidence of Zimmerman’s general reputation or specific acts (and particularly not any that were not already in evidence and had not previously provided a basis for the State’s introduction of specific prior acts).

One never can be certain in predicting how a judge will rule on a motion, and Nelson has certainly appeared to favor the State, but to this lawyer’s eye there seems little “there, there” to de la Rionda’s claims. Rather it appears to be the desperate act of a State prosecutor who has seen yet another of his witnesses co-opted by the defense, and spectacularly so.

[countingbluecars]

10. I agree that it is the prosecutor

and not the witness who wants to present the evidence. In my opinion the witness appeared biased towards the defense.

[hack89]

11. The prosecution case is turning into a train wreck. nt

[AnotherMcIntosh]

46. When a judge admits evidence of prior bad acts over the objections of a defense counsel, that

can be reversible error.

It's unlikely, given the observable skill level of the defense attorney, that the attorney does not know this and would not object to such evidence.

[DURHAM D]

12. This witness has a conflict of interest.

If she was/is on the HOA board she is concerned with her own liability issues given that she improperly sanctioned placing a thug with a gun in the community.

[hack89]

14. So why did the prosecution fail to figure this out before putting her on the stand?

the state witnesses are making it easy for Zimmerman.

The witness after her literally confirmed Zimmerman's account of what happened.

[bluestate10]

89. The prosecution has the burden of proving Zimmerman guilty. It also has the larger burden

to ensure that all information pertinent to the case comes out, even when that information causes problems with it's case. The defense does not have the factual burden that the prosecution has.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Zimmerman has already cost his HOA a ton of money

.

[Captain Stern]

17. Martin's parents have already settled their case against the HOA (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Yeah, the prosecution case isn't looking good

But if anybody thinks trials are a rational and deliberate search for the truth they are naifs.

[hack89]

16. The witness after her literally confirmed Zimmerman's account of the shooting.

Zimmerman has always maintain, since his first written statement to the police the night of the shooting, that after firing his single round he had positioned himself above Martin’s prone body to keep Martin’s arms away from his body and prevent a renewal by Martin of his attack (at the time Zimmerman could not, of course, know the full extent of Martin’s injuries). Or, to read it in the words of Zimmerman’s own hand-written statement taken at the Sanford Police Department the night of the shooting:

"At this point I felt the suspect reach for my now exposed firearm and say, “Your gonna die tonight Mother Fucker!” I unholstered my firearm in fear for my life as he had assured he was going to kill me and fired one shot into his torso. The suspect sat back allowing me to sit up and said, “You got me!” At this point I slid out from underneath him and got on top of the suspect holding his hands away from his body."

Mora had testified that she did not observe the two bodies until after the shot had been fired. Seeing Zimmerman “on top,” then, in no way conflicted with the defense’ stated theory of the case of lawful self-defense

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Do you really believe that account?

The " “Your gonna die tonight Mother Fucker!” remark is right out of some 70s blackspoitation film and the "“You got me!” remark is right out of some gangster film from the 30s.

[hack89]

20. It doesn't matter what you and I think

only what the jury thinks - and if the prosecution witnesses are confirming Zimmerman's story then establishing reasonable doubt gets a lot easier.

[dkf]

30. I always found that suspect and convenient.

But that's not what the case rests on. The physical evidence is most important IMO.

[Politicalboi]

62. I know if I were struggling with a man 100 LBS advantage

And I saw his gun, I would also say "Your gonna die tonight Mother Fucker". LOL! Zimmerman's a liar and a murderer.

[Lurks Often]

75. Where did you get the 100lbs heavier from?

Police reports indicate Zimmerman was 5'8" 200lbs that night. Martin was 158 lbs, with police reports indicating that he was 6'2" or 6'" when measured at the scene pre-rigor and 5'11" per the ME in rigor.

[brush]

63. Do you actually believe people say "You got me!" when they are shot?

If you do you've been watching too many bad, and really old, movies.

Come on buddy. Anybody with any sense knows that's crapola zimmeraman made up on the spot to cover his ass.

[hack89]

66. I am talking about the prosecution witness confirming Zimmerman's account

of him being on his back with Trayvon on top of him and punching him.

[Bjorn Against]

71. Do you mean the one who changed his story and admitted he saw no punches thrown

Witness Makes Key Admission That He Never Saw Trayvon Martin Throw A Punch At Zimmerman
By Rebecca Leber on Jun 28, 2013 at 1:14 pm

On day five of George Zimmerman’s trial for the death of Trayvon Martin, a key witness who previously claimed to have seen Martin “throwing down blows” admitted he never saw an actual punch thrown. This admission from John Good could undermine Zimmerman’s claim he shot 17-year-old Martin in reasonable self-defense.

According to the original police report, Good claimed he had seen a black male pinning Zimmerman down “just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA (mixed-martial arts) style.” But on Friday, Good told jurors he “could not see” any punches thrown, only that there was “downward movement.” He also admitted he was not 100 percent sure who yelled “help,” but assumed it was Zimmerman. It is not the first time Good has changed his account of the night Martin died. Three weeks after the incident, Good told a special prosecutor he couldn’t truly tell who yelled for help “because it was so dark out on that sidewalk.”

The reliability of witness testimony has been a major focus for both the defense and state prosecution in the trial. Zimmerman’s defense attorneys have tried to highlight inconsistencies of another witness, 19-year-old Rachel Jeantel, who was on the phone with Martin moments before the shooting. Asked repeatedly by Zimmerman’s attorney Don West why she lied about her reason for not attending Martin’s wake, Jeantel admitted she did not want to see his body. “You. Got. To. Un. Der. Stand,” Jeantel said. “I’m the last person—you don’t know how I felt. You think I really want to go see the body after I just talked to him?”

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/28/2232681/witness-admission-zimmerman/

You sure like to cherry pick to make Zimmerman look good, the reality is that Zimmerman's story has been rapidly torn to shreds by the prosecution, you would know it if you got your info from someplace other than a murder supporting right-wing blog.

[hack89]

76. I got that information from CNN nt

[dpibel]

21. Right-wing hack

You keep quoting this right-wing hack's blog as if it's an unbiased, accurate account of the trial.

It's not. It's his Zimmerman-cheerleader analysis.

In this instance, he's embellishing to the point of lying.

"Because of the severity of his injuries" is simply made up by the blogger. It's not in the testimony.

Don't take my word for it. The testimony's around 1:43 here:

&list=PLYEBn4w1XOIeEsjIiyfTohqC6BQLI81vx (apologies to all for posting link--can't get it to embed).

O'Mara shows her the blow-up of the photo at issue and asks what happened when the cop showed it to her.

She says she didn't know who it was. She says "Obviously, there's a lot going on there," which can mean many things.

O'Mara, to his credit, follows an important rule of cross-examination: Never ask one question too many. He doesn't ask her why she didn't recognize him.

Because there could have been many answers: She was looking at a tiny image on a cell phone. She didn't have her glasses on. She was in shock. Lots of explanations.

What your blogger hero doesn't mention is that the witness then said, "But one of my neighbors looked at it and said, 'That's my neighbor. That's George Zimmerman.'"

In an attorney reflex that he probably wishes he could take back, someone from the prosecution team objects to hearsay. The judge sustains.

Point is, there are two flaws in your blogger hero's argument, regardless of the actual testimony. For starters, the jury can see the pic, and it's not a pic of a person pummeled beyond recognition. It's also taken at an odd angle. For finishers, it's clear from the witness' statement that, whether she immediately identified it as Zimmerman, someone else on the scene did.

Now. I've caught Mr. Legalinsurrection in a lie. Neither the witness nor anyone else said, "because of his injuries." The blogger made that up.

I believe that, according to the rules of Zimmerman cheerleader analysis, I am now entitled to assume that everything else he says is a lie. Right?

So would you please stop driving traffic from Democratic Underground to the website of someone who posts a running series of anti-Obama cartoons?

[hack89]

22. Regardless of the source

it doesn't take much to figure out that the prosecutions case is weak.

When you have several prosecution witnesses confirming Zimmerman's story then there are problems.

When you have prosecution witnesses admitting they changed important parts of their story so as to not offend Travyon Martin's mother then you have problems. (And lets not forget that the prosecutor took that witness to Travyon Martin's mother's house and sat her on the sofa next to the mother to take her statement.)

[ksoze]

23. Taking the witnesses statement in the victims mothers living room

is the most insane thing I have ever heard. They set her up with that - she left out statements because the victioms mom was sittign next to her and now the changes have hurt her creditability.

[dpibel]

27. You sure about that?

I haven't been watching the trial except for bits and pieces.

It's my understanding that the witness statement that troubles you so was the one she gave to Benjamin Crump. He's not a prosecutor.

I'm willing to be corrected if you can point me to a source saying that the prosecutor did that. It would be awfully unusual.

[hack89]

33. Here is another account

During cross examination today, Jeantel also testified that when she was interviewed under oath on April 2 by prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda she was sitting next to Trayvon Martin's mother and that influenced what she told the prosecutor.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-witness-threw-punch/story?id=19504826

[dpibel]

39. Thanks

As I said, haven't been watching in real time.

[dpibel]

31. At this point

I'm not sure that you're getting information anywhere except Legalinsurrection.

That's the only place I know of that is seeing the trial the way you are.

Seems that every time I go to the recordings of the trial to review your blockbuster revelations, things just didn't happen quite the way you (and Legalinsurrection) say they did.

You are declaring that anything the witnesses say that is consistent with Zimmerman's story is a disaster for the prosecution. It simply doesn't work that way.

The jury actually is not doing what you're doing, which is cherry-pick the evidence that supports the outcome you want.

I realize that, after years of insurance company propaganda, people believe that juries just act on emotion and bias and only hear what the attorneys say.

If you believe that, you've never been involved in a jury trial.

[hack89]

34. Here is a prosecution witness confirming Zimmerman's account

that he was on the ground and TM was pounding the shit out of him. This guy was 20 feet away.

On the trial’s fifth day, Good recounted being 15 to 20 feet away from the fight between Zimmerman and Martin. Although he couldn’t make out the faces of the individuals on the ground, Good said he could make out the color of their clothes. In crucial testimony that buttresses the defense’s argument, Good said the person on top of the fight was wearing a black top like the black hoodie sweatshirt Martin was wearing that night, and the person on the bottom was wearing red. Zimmerman was wearing a similar color that night.

Good said it seemed like the person on the bottom was yelling for help. Good said he saw the person on top “straddling”the person on the bottom, and the person on top was moving their hands in a downward striking motion that looked like what he called a "ground and pound," a term associated with MMA or mixed-martial arts fighting.

"It looked like that position was a ground-and-pound type position, but I couldn't tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces," said Good. Defense attorney Mark O'Mara asked Good to define the term "ground and pound."

"It's usually when someone is on top in a mounted position, I believe, in the dominant position, but like I said the person on the bottom is able to throw punches back, but I did not see any of that," said Good.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/28/questions-still-loom-over-george-zimmerman-trial?hpt=hp_inthenews

This is the guy who was the closest to the fight. Can you at least consider the notion that this particular witness was a disaster for the prosecution?

[dpibel]

51. A disaster? No.

Seriously. It seems you're really charged up about this.

Just for starters, this witness supports (within the limitations of darkness making identification of colors difficult) a part of Zimmerman's story: That he was, at some point, lying on the ground and Martin was on top of him. The witness says the person on the bottom was calling for help. The jury is entitled to evaluate whether he could, under the lighting conditions and the stress of the moment, actually determine that.

He specifically denies seeing any punches thrown.

That, as a matter of fact, hurts Zimmerman's story, because his story is that he was having blows rained down upon him.

But the real point is that you don't seem to understand how trials work. Eyewitness testimony, contrary to popular mythology, is highly unreliable. If all the witnesses were going to tell the same story, there wouldn't be a trial. When there's no conflict in the evidence, you only go to trial if you have very stubborn or stupid parties or attorneys.

The idea that any one detail is a devastating blow to the entire case is an idea gotten from watching TV and movies.

But those are not real trials. They are scripted.

Real trials are not. They are messy. They are full of contradictory evidence. They are full of witnesses contradicting themselves, being tripped up on cross.

Declaring game over at this point is simply premature.

I won't have time to banter with you further. I have work to do.

[ieoeja]

68. He doesn't deny *no* punches were thrown either. Admits he could have just been pinning him. nt

[Bjorn Against]

74. Interesting that you left out the part where Good retracted and admitted he saw no punches

The witness you cite recanted and admitted he saw no punches being thrown, it seems like that would be a crucial piece of info yet you leave it out and hope we believe that the witness is still claiming that he saw Trayvon punching Martin when in fact he has admitted that he did not see that. You call him a disaster for the prosecution , but in reality he is a disaster for Zimmerman.

[hack89]

77. So prosecution witnesses constantly changing their stories is bad news for Zimmerman?

you really want it both ways, don't you?

[Bjorn Against]

78. The story changed from support of Zimmerman to ambiguity, that is not bad for the prosecution

I really don't see how you can claim a guy who previously backed Zimmerman's story but has now changed his story in a way that undermines Zimmerman's claims is bad for the prosecution.

[hack89]

79. He reports that Martin was on top and that "there were arm movement going downwards"

and that Zimmerman was yelling for help.

Then we have an EMT testifying:

"He had a very swollen, bleeding nose. He had lacerations to the back of his head," said Livingston. "We just tried to clean up his injuries so we could see them better."

She also saw two cuts on the back of his head, each approximately an inch long. They also cleaned up the cuts

And we have a cop testifying

Smith says Zimmerman was wearing a red and black jacket.

"The back of it was wetter than the front of it. It was also covered in grass," said Smith.

Zimmerman was also wearing blue jeans.

"The back was wetter than the front," said Smith.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/28/questions-still-loom-over-george-zimmerman-trial?hpt=hp_inthenews


If that is ambiguous to you then so be it. Can you at least understand how those of us that can string individual bits of information together can come to a different opinion?

What story do you thing that testimony tells?

[uponit7771]

37. don't embellish or repeat embellishments though

[Bjorn Against]

73. So someone points out your OP is a lie, you tell us to disregard the source

You may want us to believe this outright lie, but it says a lot about you that you post right-wing lies and then when presented the facts you answer with "regardless of the source". You are spreading propaganda that promotes murder, it is sick and you should be ashamed.

[gvstn]

25. I'll just post this KOS diary from a few weeks ago

It seems to counter the idea that Zimmerman's injuries were particularly severe.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/03/1213239/-Officer-s-Cellphone-Pics-Show-Zimmerman-May-NOT-Have-Been-Punched-the-Night-he-Killed-Trayvon

[hack89]

26. So we see a picture of Zimmerman's bloody and misshapen nose

and we are to believe the injuries were not severe because the blogger can ascertain from that one picture that no blood came from the nostrils? Really?

[gvstn]

28. I'm no expert on mishappen noses

But I see two relatively minor lacerations on his nose that could easily have bled rather profusely because noses bleed easily but then closed up on the own in 45 minutes. That does not seem like a severe injury.

I'm not trying to get anyone riled up, I just remember that diary and was surprised at how minor the lacerations looked. Not consistent with having ones head bashed into concrete. I was mugged and my face looked a lot worse than Zimmerman's after having it bashed into concrete and taking a few punches.

[uponit7771]

35. ME and EMT noticed no broken nose, no blood from nostriles

[hack89]

40. The EMT report shows a "traumatic injury" with bleeding from the nose

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/zimmerman.fdems.report.pdf

[uponit7771]

41. nose and nostril aren't the same a broke nose most likely = bleed from NOSTRILS

[riverwalker]

29. taken 45 minutes after fight

blood cleaned up, showing tiny pinhole size cut on tip of nose, the source of bleeding in earlier photo.

[HappyMe]

32. Oh my God!

He's lucky to be alive!

Severe injuries, my ass.

[uponit7771]

36. didn't know it was 45 mins...thoguht it was days....yeah, right Z is a lying a-hole

[Pathwalker]

38. THIS PHOTO SAYS IT ALL!

Injuries, my foot! Liar!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

84. Not exactly. See the on-scene photo at #43. The photo, however, doesn't establish that Martin

was the aggressor. It also doesn't establish that Martin is the one that hit Zimmerman to cause Zimmerman's nose to be swollen.

I'm one who is willing to suspect that Zimmerman, while being aware of homicide charges that could be filed against him, had sufficient time to create his own injuries. Just look at the photo at #43. Did Zimmerman hit himself on the right side of his nose with an object such as his gun? Did he cause a small cut that produced sufficient blood that would be smeared, by him with his right hand, on the tip of his nose, his upper and lower lips, and the right side of his mustache? How could he have so much blood, and a lot of blood on his lips, and yet not have any blood beyond the lower lip?

[apples and oranges]

42. I interpreted it as she either lied to the police

(as she lied about Twitter), or wasn't good at recognizing non-white faces outside of certain contexts. She made it clear to 911 and the police that she didn't want to be seen by the involved parties.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

43. Here's the photo taken at the scene by the cop.

[BainsBane]

45. Gunners for Zimmerman

Who'd have thunk it?

[hack89]

47. A personal attack from you - Who'd have thunk it? nt

[BainsBane]

48. Personal?

I didn't name you.

[hack89]

50. So your comment was not intended for me? Ok. nt

[BainsBane]

49. If, however, you consider it an attack

to be accused of supporting Zimmerman, there is an easy solution to that. Don't.

[hack89]

53. No

I was referring to how you let your hatred of all things guns permeate your actions here. It is not about Z for you - just another opportunity to smear a pro-gun member of DU.

[BainsBane]

57. What's the smear?

Are you asserting it's inaccurate?

[hack89]

58. Considering I have consistently posted that I think Zimmerman is guilty

yes - it is inaccurate.

Posting on the train wreck of a case the prosecution is presenting is not supporting Zimmerman. It is reporting a train wreck.

[BainsBane]

60. So now you expect people to do a search of all your previous posts

because you can't be bothered to provide context?

[hack89]

61. No

I just expect people not to drag the fact that I favor gun rights into every topic. We are talking about Zimmerman - why didn't you address the OP and provide some argument to counter it instead of posting what you did?

[BainsBane]

65. Every topic?

I've never seen you post on anything except guns. I've even done searches under your name and found nothing else. When I confronted you on that fact you said you did it because you enjoy needling gun control supporters. If you're going to dish it, be prepared to take it.

[hack89]

67. So here I am in a thread that has nothing to do with guns

why can't you stay on topic?

When I needle you, it is in gun threads.

[BainsBane]

69. Zimmerman has nothing to do with guns?

Cool Story, bro.

[hack89]

70. Have a nice day. nt

[HappyMe]

52. That wasn't a personal attack.

[hack89]

54. OK. nt

[HappyMe]

55. Glad you agree.

[hack89]

56. Merely acknowledging that I read your post. nt

[AnotherMcIntosh]

81. Do you ever wonder whether there is reincarnation and

bongbong has returned?

[BainsBane]

85. Oh come on

I'm supposed to be Iverglas. Now Bongbong? I haven't even heard of that one. Go on, have Skinner check my IP address for the fourth time.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

86. Merely out of curiosity, and not as a way to encourage you to post more disruption, who is Iverglas?

[galileoreloaded]

82. just men killing men right? didn't think this was in your wheelhouse. nt

[BainsBane]

83. You obviously don't pay the slightest attention to what I post

It must take a great deal of effort to miss my daily gun posts. Your friends in the gungeon can fill you in.

[riverwalker]

59. head wound

no abrasions, no bruising, no swelling, no fracture, no hematoma. Two tiny cuts that bleed a lot.