ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 5, Friday - June 28, 2013

[GreenStormCloud]

Instead of multiple threads about aspects of the trial, let's combine them into one master thread.

Live feed, no commercials, no commentators: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/

[GreenStormCloud]

1. The prosecution has presented their best witnesses.

Things are expected to start improving for the defense with the remaining witnesses and evidence.

[hack89]

3. Several prosecution witnesses helped Zimmerman's case

the prosecution has a potential train wreck on their hands.

[davidpdx]

2. It looks like the prosecution harassed her during cross

[GreenStormCloud]

4. Greg McKinney, United Security Alliance (Video Surveillance), new witness.

Camera at gate not working, others at clubhouse working.

[GreenStormCloud]

5. Videos being introduced as evidence by prosecution. N/T

[GreenStormCloud]

6. John Good to stand now

He was the closest witness.

[justiceischeap]

7. It sounds like the prosecution just made a mistake

Asked if the person on the bottom had the gun out already.

[targetpractice]

10. Didn't catch that.... What was the reply?

And, why was that a mistake?

[GreenStormCloud]

11. When the gun was drawn is important.

If the gun was already out then it helps the prosecution. If Z drew the gun after he was down then it helps Z.

[ksoze]

21. Witness saw no gun out when T on top of Z

Was clarified again on re-cross.

[GreenStormCloud]

8. Good's testimony is really helping the defense. N/T

[riverwalker]

12. he is W6

listed on some pro-Z trial sites as "defense strongest witness".
Saw no head banging repeatedly, however.

I hope they call a trauma doc to state is impossible to have "life threatening head banging repeatedly on concrete" without any bruises, swelling, or hematoma. Z's little scratch is not consistant with his story.

[Lurks Often]

14. You keep missing the legal threshold

a person does NOT have to wait for grave bodily injury to be inflicted before using lethal force, they merely have to fear it.

Is it reasonable for a person to believe that having one's head banged on the concrete COULD lead to a grave bodily injury or death?

[noiretextatique]

24. the no DNA thing refutes the self-defense claim

no zimmerman dna on martin.

[uponit7771]

26. +1

[Lurks Often]

30. Is there any evidence that will convince you Zimmerman isn't guilty?

[uppityperson]

35. None presented yet.

[noiretextatique]

42. no...i think the murderous, lying bastard is guilty as sin

and his story is tranparently self-serving.

[Lurks Often]

46. At least you're honest to say so out loud n/t

[noiretextatique]

50. yes...just as many did when OJ was on trial

just as many do with other trials.

[uponit7771]

25. This is false, it has to be REASONABLE. If just "fearing it" was the metric there'd be a lot more

....justified homicide

The "fear" has to be imminent too

Not just a scuffle

In that case kids would have to carry guns to school

[Lurks Often]

28. You did read the second sentence didn't you?

"Is it reasonable for a person to believe that having one's head banged on the concrete COULD lead to a grave bodily injury or death?"

[uponit7771]

29. No, and that's not Z account of it that's the MSM's and winger sites...z claimed he was "squriming"

...away before the shot.

Look on youtube for the statement to the FBI video...

The MSM and winger sites are butt heads

[Lurks Often]

33. The trial is MAYBE a 1/3 over and you've already determined the guilt of the defendant

before the defense has even presented it's case. How very open minded of you.

[DrDan]

36. there are quite a few here who have already determined guilt

and some have further stated that anyone disagreeing is simply racist

DU-group-think in action

[uponit7771]

37. No, I can determine the evidence as presented...I'm not going to assume someone who chased an...

..unarmed kid through a dark neighborhood with a loaded gun and ill intentions just became innocent the second before he pulled a trigger and shot said kid...

I'm not on the jury

[Lurks Often]

38. Fortunately the case is going to be based on Florida law

and not the feelings of someone who wasn't there and hasn't seen all the evidence.

[uponit7771]

39. That's a given, I'm not going to assume his innocence though nor take his word for anything

...that happened.

Even if I were on the jury he took away the benefit of the doubt by stalking a kid in the first place.

[Lurks Often]

40. And again you ignore the law

Zimmerman was allowed to follow Martin, there is nothing against the law in that.

[DrDan]

47. there you go again - relying on facts

[WinkyDink]

49. For the love of GOD---Observers can make up their minds AT ANY TIME. WE are not the JURORS.

[Lurks Often]

53. One would hope people would at least ATTEMPT

to keep an open mind, but deciding a person is guilty is of murder based on not understanding the relevant law and refusing to even consider the possibility of the defendant's innocence isn't something someone should be proud of.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

48. There's yet to be a witness who has yet to corrobrate Zimmerman's head being repeatedly bashed...

...into concrete.

Even Good, who is probably the first witness to help the Defendant's case arguably.

[hack89]

17. A prosecution witness has testified that she could not id Z at the scene due to his injuries

the prosecution has already blown the "little scratch" argument out of the water.

[Duer 157099]

52. The cut was just described as about 2cm in length and 0.5cm deep

That, to me, is a "little scratch." I've had more serious scratches from cats!

[lancer78]

69. What do you own? Jaguars?

0.5 cm is about the depth of half your pinkie finger. Now go to the kitchen, take a knife, and cut a wound roughly that deep. I think you will agree its a little more then a scratch.

[GreenStormCloud]

9. 911 call being played. N/T

[woolldog]

13. Not a good day so far for the prosecution.

I don't see any way Zimmerman gets convicted after Good's testimony. The DA overcharged.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Manslaughter is a lesser included offense

The DA might have overcharged to give the jury an out in the way of a compromise verdict.

[ksoze]

18. Not sure it included as charged

but the jury COULD be instructed to allow if they see the case going south.

[B2G]

19. I thought manslaughter wasn't an option for the jury. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Here

Jeff Weiner, a former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers who practices in Miami, said an Arthur hearing “is not a mini-trial, but it’s a very good preview of the evidence that the state has at this point.”

Mr. Weiner suggested that the prosecutor might have “overcharged” to retain the option, should she feel a murder conviction is slipping away, of asking the judge to instruct the jury to consider lesser offenses, like manslaughter. It is also possible, he said, that she might be trying to coax Mr. Zimmerman to the negotiating table to plead guilty to such a lesser charge. But, he added, it is impossible to say whether it is overly tough, since evidence has not yet been produced.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/zimmerman-faces-second-degree-murder-charge-in-florida.html?_r=0

[B2G]

23. At this rate they won't even charge him with that. n/t

[woolldog]

20. Did the judge rule on whether the female witness yesterday (the white woman with black hair)

could be asked about Zimmerman's assault on a police officer and the restraining order placed on him?

[riverwalker]

16. key point

Goode saw no blows or punches
just wrestling around

[uponit7771]

27. Did the witnes say no punches? That is a gating point if so, I agree...

[ksoze]

31. He said he saw swinging but did not actually see fist hit skin

He also attributed that to the position he was viewing from.

[uponit7771]

34. So no wonder there was no Z dna on TM....and no fight marks on TM's fist and no dirt or blood

[riverwalker]

41. EMT Stacey Livingston

should be interesting, first professional assessment of Z's injuries on scene.

(prosecutor John Guy speaking sounds a lot like Kevin Cosner)

[riverwalker]

43. asking about Glascow Coma score

to assess for concussion.
His score was 15=normal

[SlipperySlope]

61. Assess for consciousness, non concussion

Concussion is harder to assess for. Sports medicine would love to find an accurate way to measure football players after they take a hard tackle, but no great system has been developed yet.

[riverwalker]

44. nose moist

not actively bleeding. 2 lacerations on back of head, old blood, not actively bleeding. No balance problems. Treated Z 5 minutes.

[riverwalker]

45. defense up now

with big giant blow up of swollen nose picture, asking about about every mark

[displacedtexan]

51. This whole self-defense deal just doesn't make sense to me.

These little nagging questions I have aren't even being brought up in court; such as: How can a sidewalk produce only two tiny straight lines of cuts if your head is being bashed onto it repeatedly? (That must be some smooth concrete work! Have you ever scraped a knee on a sidewalk? I have, and it doesn't just leave 2 small scratch lines. More like Scab City.)

What's the deal with all of the questions about the flashlight and the fact that it wasn't turned on? (Could GZ have used it initially as a threat or as a weapon, and it actually whacked him in the nose when TM fought back?); and finally, why hasn't anyone pointed out how GZ didn't give a good goddamn whether TM was alive or dead after he shot him? (Seems heartless to me).

What I've determined so far during this trial: I will never vacation in Florida again, and I'm sure I'm not the only person thinking this. I say this because we rent houses and apartments when we travel (through homeaway and airbnb), which means there could be a Zimmerman type roaming the neighborhood. Judging by the tons of Florida Tv and press blog people claiming GZ is the victim, and if you think that GZ was scared for his life, you also have to accept that tourists fear gun-toting vigilantes just as much. Remember when NYC's unofficial motto was COME BACK TO NEW YORK (we weren't shooting at you)? It's like that.

Okay, rant over. Thanks for putting up with me.

[noiretextatique]

54. it sure as hell does not make sense

he had the option to stay in the car. the dispatcher told him not to follow. yet he got out of the car...with a gun, and followed martin. to me, that alone means zimmerman was the aggressor. he has never shown any compassion or remorse for what he did, and seems to be relying on good, old-fashioned racism for an acquittal. i hope he is convicted and given the maximum sentence.

[GreenStormCloud]

63. The dispatcher did NOT tell him to stay in the truck.

That the dispatcher gave him that instruction is a DU myth that gets posted a LOT. Check out a transcript: http://zimmermanscall.blogspot.com/p/the-call.html

I will copy and paste the relevent part:

1:47 Zimmerman: Yep. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.
Dispatcher: So it's on the left hand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left, uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left.
Zimmerman is making a big mess of this, and the frustration in his voice is very evident.
This is suddenly interrupted:
2:07 Zimmerman “Sh**. He’s running”.

Zimmerman gets out of the truck immediately on saying "He's running."
2:09 A mechanical sound. Maybe the door latch. Maybe releasing seat belt.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
2:10 Tone, which seems to be the usual warning chirp when a door opens
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
2:14 Sound like the door slamming shut
Dispatcher: OK. Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
2:15 Sound that could be door lock operating or him brushing against the truck
Zimmerman: The back entrance
2:20 We hear a pattern of regular rustling/wind noises starting

2:22 Zimmerman: F***ing ****s
There have been various interpretation of what he said. I hear "Goons" - which id the name by which local gangs were known. Zimmerman claimed later that it was "Punks". Others have suggested words ranging from "Cold" to racially-oriented. To me the sound combined with the circumstances would favour "Goons", with 'g' bringing out the 'u' sound.
2:23 Dispatcher: Are you following him? Maybe the Dispatcher interprets the background noises as Zimmerman running.
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
2:28 Zimmerman: Ok.

Z was ALREADY out of the truck when the dispatcher said that he didn't need to follow TM.

[noiretextatique]

70. and...

he had the option to stay in the truck, did he not? the dispatcher DID tell him not to follow him.

[GreenStormCloud]

71. And that was said AFTER he had left his truck.

I am a stickler for accuracy.

[noiretextatique]

72. gotcha...thanks! eom

[Tommy_Carcetti]

55. Hey, don't hold it against us Floridians.

Lots of crazy people everywhere.

[displacedtexan]

60. Hey, I used to love Florida!

Now, not so much, what with the Zimmermanites all over the interwebs, spouting, "It's not a crime to follow someone in the dark and then shoot them when you get afraid."

[hedgehog]

57. Have you ever scraped a knee on a sidewalk? I have, and it doesn't just leave 2 small scratch lines.

I'm glad you mentioned that!

[noiretextatique]

58. no...it does not

i just did that a few weeks about, and i had a deep abrasion, not a couple of scratches.

[GreenStormCloud]

64. Difference between a scrape and an impact.

A scrape will take a lot of hide off. An impact, especially if it is on a corner, will produce a cut.

[uponit7771]

67. +1

[GreenStormCloud]

65. It isn't against the law to have or not have feelings.

Florida isn't the only state that has shall-issue CCW. Almost the entire country does.

[uponit7771]

66. +1

[Nye Bevan]

56. Surely there have been enough defense witnesses so far?

When does the prosecution get to have a turn?

[noiretextatique]

59. keep dreaming

zimmerman's entire narrative has already been destroyed.

[ksoze]

68. Please explain where it is destroyed?

inquiring minds want to know.

[displacedtexan]

62. Oh, yeah. Another question

When I sustained a hairline nose fracture, both of my eyes blacked almost immediately. And when my daughter had her nose job, the same thing happened to her. Why hasn't anyone asked the medical professionals about this phenomenon?