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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWitness responds to suggestion that Trayvon lied before getting shot: ‘That’s real retarded, sir’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/27/witness-responds-to-suggestion-that-trayvon-lied-before-getting-shot-thats-real-retarded-sir/
A witness for the prosecution on Thursday politely told George Zimmerman’s attorney that he was acting “real retarded” by suggesting that slain teen Trayvon Martin lied in a phone call just minutes before he was shot.
“Of course, you don’t know if he was telling the truth or not,” attorney Don West insisted to witness Rachel Jeantel, who was speaking to Martin on the phone just minutes before he was shot by Zimmerman.
“Why would he need to lie about that, sir?” Jeantel asked.
“Maybe he decided to assault George Zimmerman and he didn’t want you to know about it,” West said.
“That’s real retarded, sir,” Jeantel pointed out. “Trayvon did not know him.”
Watch this video from CNN, broadcast June 27, 2013.
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NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)BigD_95
(911 posts)the lawyer ate this girl up. She was a perfect witness for the defense. She is a liar and racist
H2O Man
(73,559 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Fucking trolls.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)you people have no relationship with reality whatsoever.
brush
(53,789 posts)She nailed it, while being so cool, calm and collected . . . a teenager holding her own against this allegedly intelligent adult. The question was not just retarded but sneaky in trying to turn Martin into a liar looking to attack ol' zimmy.
The truth is coming out. Martin was being followed, not following, and she's testified to that so that lawyer, he of the failed "knock, knock" joke, is trying more foolishness to defend a killer.
zimmy needs a new lawyer because this guy is not coming off well at all with these tactics.
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)Good thing she didn't in court.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)...there is no disputing that Trayvon was killed by Zimmerman. Does the fact that Trayvon describe the attacker and stalker as a non black make this whole thing racist? Does tha absolve Zimmerman in any way? Does that fact that anyone describing a stalker verbalizes the most obvious description make them a racist? Good god.
catbyte
(34,403 posts)
aquart
(69,014 posts)And honey? Everybody lies.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Go Rachel! 
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)She used the R word!
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)zbdent
(35,392 posts)BANG ...
just raising the collective IQ ...
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)IMO.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I think her choice of words fit the situation perfectly.
marshall
(6,665 posts)For good or bad, words matter.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
mimi85
(1,805 posts)
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)in fact, before your post in this thread, your grandchildren did not figure into the discussion.
this isn't about you, so stop making it about you.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)using the word "retarded" and whether it would be ok. My point is, its not, so suck it!
Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)For better or worse, there is a different set of standards in operation.
Rachel will probably never work in show business again FWIW.
zbdent
(35,392 posts)1. A democrat
2. A liberal
3. A minority
4. any combination of the above
msongs
(67,420 posts)
jwirr
(39,215 posts)action with it is actually the dictionary definition.
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)No matter how you try to parse it, it refers to a specific group of people who have very often heard it as they were bullied.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Empathy and just generally giving a damn when someone's feelings are in the mix is a trait I am usually pleased to consider as common among fellow liberals.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)You're behavior is as bad as one of "those people" is the gist.
I have heard the personal stories of people with intellectual disabilities who have been bullied. That word is central to the experiences many have had. One friend talked about hearing it with every punch that came from his brother. What she said was you're behaving like one of those defective people.
People love to pretend that they don't know who a person is talking about when they use that language but it's an unavoidable fact that the reference is to people who have intellectual differences that have led to their ostracization and discrimination.
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)retard = to delay or slow down (the progress, speed, or development) of (something).
www.thefreedictionary.com/retard?
It is not a word used only to describe a person. However, in the case of Zs defense attorney's questioning, the word she used seems quite appropriate. The questions he repeatedly asked did indeed slow down the speed and progress of the trial.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Ya think that the fact that retard has been applied to people influences the insult factor?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)What you relate the word to and how you interpret it- is up to you. 
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)There is a national movement to remove it from policy texts and educate people on how much pain it causes. Of course, not everyone cares if what they say is hurtful to other people. I just tend to mistakenly expect more from liberals. Disregarding and dismissing it is just dehumanizing and hateful.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I pointed out that the witness testifying in the Z case did not call the defense attorney a retard, she said the question was retarded. I also explained in a previous post why I thought it was appropriate. What you associate the word with-is something I have no control over.
Just because you associate the word with mentally deficient people and can't see past that, doesn't mean everyone does. There are valid uses of the word.
Again, the meaning of the word: retard = to delay or slow down (the progress, speed, or development) of (something).
www.thefreedictionary.com/retard?
Example of the use of the word in a sentence:
The chemical that the cloth has been treated with will effectively retard any fire.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Do you seriously believe she meant "these questions are slowing down this trial"?
Now, that is reaching.
She's been pretty plain spoken and direct. The idea that she would use vague language to say "I wish you would stop badgering me and get on with it" is incomprehensible.
The term "mentally deficient" clarifies your level of compassion.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Yes, I agree. I would have to be mentally deficient to have compassion for the defense.
It was so nice talking with you. Have a great evening!
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I said nothing about the defense or the prosecution. I will say that the defense has been ridiculously hard on her. It doesn't justify using hurtful language.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)that big old prosecutor with her words by saying she used hurtful language when answering his questions. So exactly who am I supposed to have compassion for if not the individual that you claim was hurt by it?
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)You may have just overlooked it when I said that the insult is to the people who are referenced by the word retard. Every time it is used as an attempt to criticize a person or their behavior the insult is to the people who are referenced. I don't care about the defense attorney. I would have no problem if she called him stupid. But, what she said is that's like what one of "those defective people" would do.
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)The idea behind discouraging the usage as an insult is to narrow it to contexts that do not apply to people.
Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)Maybe they should revoke her Master's degree in English.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)It was the seventies when we referred to our residents at the state facility I worked in as "Mentally Retarded."
The word has evolved into other forms. I'm not sure it's even in use medically...I doubt it.
EDIT: Used a "bad" word!
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)After all, this is the lawyer who thought it would be a good idea to preface his opening statement with a joke insulting the jury.
Knock, knock,"
Who's there?
George Zimmerman.
George Zimmerman who?
Congratulations, you're on the jury.
<crickets>
Nothing? That's funny!
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Especially when attempted at a murder trial.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)His developed theory is delayed.
dkf
(37,305 posts)The Spread the Word to End the Word campaign is pleased to announce the release of a new hard-hitting public service announcement (PSA) called "Not Acceptable."
This 30-second television PSA gives voice to a variety of diverse communities, each of whom expresses that it is not acceptable to call them by what were once common words, but are now recognized as offensive slurs. It culminates in actress and self-advocate Lauren Potter from “Glee” stating that it is not acceptable to use the word ‘retard.’ She and “Glee” co-star Jane Lynch make a call to action to stop using the R-word and to promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
One constant challenge with raising awareness about the hurtful nature of the R-word is that most people do not view it to be as hurtful as other common epithets that our society has consensually removed from our lexicon. The PSA “Not Acceptable” tackles that challenge head on in a hard-hitting and impactful way in an effort to educate our society that for people with intellectual disabilities and those that love them, the R-word is just as hurtful as any other slur. You can make a difference today by taking the pledge to stop using the word 'retard' and replace it with a new R-word: Respect.
“Not Acceptable” has been previewed by and received support from multiple advocacy organizations including the Anti-Defamation League, Special Olympics, GLAAD, Best Buddies, Hispanic Federation, National Puerto Rican Coalition, Asian American Federation, AbilityPath.org and the NAACP. See the statements of support.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I think most people will cut her some slack.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Would they be so excited over a n word joke ?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)she displayed -- the utter contempt with which she viewed the defense lawyer's suggestion that Trayvon had lied to her.
I think this young girl is admirable Who among us would do much better in her position?
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)she did indeed. she broke my heart with her testimony.
I only hope the jury is made of people with hearts.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)"That's so ridiculous it's as if one of 'those defective people' said it" is the gist of both sentiments.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)do YOU think she meant to be offensive?
dkf
(37,305 posts)
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)It matters what six specific individuals will think. I don't think she did herself any favors by using that choice of words.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)RILib
(862 posts)Here's a clue. Most people in the U.S. do not know that retarded has become a non-pc word.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)I'd give it a better chance that at least one of them brings it up in the jury room, if this thing comes down to her testimony. She's made a number of stumbles that do not cast her in the best possible light.
Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #265)
JimDandy This message was self-deleted by its author.
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)his bullying tactics with this witness.
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)knowing how the word is used in other context such as ignition timing.
Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #265)
JimDandy This message was self-deleted by its author.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)she probably doesn't have a clue about the correct term for developmentally delayed people. this is absolutely ridiculous...a new low for a desperate zimmerman apologust.
dkf
(37,305 posts)How old are the posters on this board who are exposed to the news and to the concerns of our various communities?
My little nieces know better. Geez.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Okay?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I'd argue that education on the negativity of that word isn't nearly as widespread as some other derogatory terms. Retarded is still an extremely common slang term for something or someone who is rediculously stupid. Yeah it's not PC and should be phased out with better understanding, but the intent of her statement is pretty spot on.
PsychoBunny
(86 posts).... or sympathize with to use non-PC words if it's for a reason we like. In this case many of us agree that it was appropriate.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Dim-brained work better for yuh?
Sancho
(9,070 posts)I almost fell off the couch...and the contempt was dripping...she things the attorney is stupid!!
all american girl
(1,788 posts)I was awesome....I love that girl.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)I think she did a great job. Wouldn't it just beat all if she went on to law school? Go Rachel! Tell it like it IS!
BigD_95
(911 posts)of course the lawyer knew what she was going to say. The lawyer was just trying to get it in the minds of the jury. He was setting up his defense for later.
No one believes this girl. She lies too much. She also admitted Martin was getting angry and uses racist words.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)You really can't be serious. And using blanket words like no one is ludicrous Stop generalizing.
1monster
(11,012 posts)rattle her and isn't succeeding.
After all, HE tried to make her look stupid when he asked her to read a letter he knew she couldn't. Considering that English is NOT this young lady's first language, I think she does very well.
josejimenez
(18 posts)This trial is beginning to line up under racial segregations. With a monumental immigration bill just passed there should be cause for optimism and solidarity.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)The attorney obviously was clueless about the culture of the witness...if not stupid, he was ignorant of culture, teenagers, and pissed off the judge. Other than that he had a good day.
The shooting was likely a racially motivated act before the trial ever began. The witnesses today were black, white, and hispanic. All three reported a similar account of what they heard. None seemed racially biased. If there is a racial bias in the courtroom, it's probably the defense lawyers and maybe some of the jury.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)And that is a common mistake among attorneys. They ask questions but don't really listen to the answers, and sometimes they ask questions they shouldn't ask and don't ask questions they should ask because they aren't paying any attention to the answers.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)version of events. She basically called his version of the events "retarded" here.
malaise
(269,054 posts)We did laugh 
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)brush
(53,789 posts)Many seem to forget she's that young.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)We are failing our children. Using that word and not being able to read cursive. Ugh
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)But I think it's sad she can't read cursive and uses that 'R' word.
I hope someone can teach her how to read cursive. That poor child deserves to be able to read cursive. We are failing our children.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Being able to read and write cursive holds no more value than being able to do calligraphy. It's an art form that is becoming obsolete.
And she quite correctly used the word retarded. She did not call anyone "the 'R' word".
Mira
(22,380 posts)DAMN
Now I'm an artist and didn't know it...
I can curse about cursive writing being called art, right?
tblue37
(65,408 posts)are excellent students) cannot write or read well in cursive and sometimes cannot do so at all--which is problematic, because I write all my comments on their papers in cursive and all my notes on the blackboard in cursive. Furthermore, my students from China and Korea usually print only in English and either can barely read cursive or cannot read it at all.
In K-12, they don't push cursive any more. The kids "learn" it briefly in third and fourth grade, but they are not required to use it at all past that point, so many end up printing only from that point on--or, of course, just keyboarding most of the time.
I encourage them to practice writing cursive, because that is the best way to learn to read it comfortably--and cursive writing is actually much faster for taking notes or writing essays or exams in class, which they do have to do a lot of in college. Printing involves constantly picking up the pen or pencil between strokes or letters. Each time that is done, it takes just a fraction of a second, but over time, that does add up to slow down their writing and to cramp up their hands!
Furthermore, I warn them that all their older teachers (like me) will write in cursive, so they need to be able to read it to understand what we write.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Cursive will become obsolete.
I don't think anyone can deny that. Everything else is mourning it's death. I learned it ~1970 and will not be sad to see it go. My real issue is Z and Q. The cursive versions are ridiculous. Other than that, I'm ambivalent about it.
tblue37
(65,408 posts)(the one called "alphabetical speedwriting, for example, which is what I use) that are as effective as shorthand for taking notes, without requiring that one master a whole new set of symbols.
Of course, that would be just for note-taking. The standard form of writing is necessary for essays and exams, since the papers must be read by a person who is unlikely to be familiar with shorthand or with any idiosyncratic form of fast writing the individual has devised.
The cursive Z and Q are obnoxious--so I never use them. I use printed versions of many uppercase letters. It is the linking element of cursive that speeds it up. But a student who has never learned to write linked letters often cannot read linked letters, either.
In many schools a fluid hybrid form called D'Nelian is actually taught in the lower grades in place of block printing, because the D'Neliean forms make it easier for the student to transition to cursive when the time comes. When my own kids were in elementary school, I volunteered in their classrooms. I taught at the writing table during Kindergarten, and D'Nelian is the style of writing that we taught.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)It is an arbitrary set of symbols, which become more arcane as each of us that learned it fade away. Runic alphabets are just as valid as Cursive, and much easier to carve into stone...
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Learning to write in cursive also sharpens hand-eye coordination.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)brush
(53,789 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2013, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)
bike man
(620 posts)and corners rounded.
IIRC, cursive is taught in schools by the fourth grade. Even if it is no longer taught, a 19 year old adult should have noticed the pattern of joined letters. Assuming a level of manual dexterity that prevents the ability to write in such a manner, that 19 year old (or any 19 year old) should be able to notice the similarity between a printed word such as 'bear' and the scripted version of the same word.
Failure to do so indicates a failure on the part of the student, not of the teachers or the school system.
reusrename
(1,716 posts)Dyslexia comes to mind.
I know several intelligent adults who cannot read a tape measure correctly.
This may not be anyone's failure at all.
1monster
(11,012 posts)officials is on passing state and federally mandated tests and leaves educators very little time for other (necessary) subjects.
October
(3,363 posts)After 35+ years of teaching, she said the last class or two can no longer read cursive. She was completely blown away by this.
And she teaches in an upper middle class neighborhood public school in NJ.
MH1
(17,600 posts)They sure as hell failed Trayvon.
I hope they don't keep failing her.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Our children deserve better.
prole_for_peace
(2,064 posts)Also, I am an older woman and I have a hard time reading it unless it is very neat.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)It should still be taught.
BeliQueen
(504 posts)I would dare you to read it in court under intense scrutiny and pressure. I would bet you one million dollars that you couldn't do it even under the best circumstances.
Cursive isn't a "font," it is a personalized writing style that can be easy to read or extremely hard to read.
The reason that her cursive is extremely hard to read is that she learned shorthand in high school, and her cursive is a shorthand/cursive hybrid.
And speaking of obsolete writing styles, do you think they should teach shorthand, too?
the more knowledge, the better.
tblue37
(65,408 posts)so we must prioritize and spend our time learning what we need most to function well in life.
Obsolete knowledge is interesting and useful to certain small subgroups--historians of a particular type, for example--but not as something most people should spend time or energy acquiring, at the expense of more important and relevant things they do need to spend time and energy learning!
Should we make all students learn to use slide rules, too? How about an abacus?
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)"Should we make all students learn to use slide rules, too? How about an abacus?"
tblue37
(65,408 posts)to our students, because "more knowledge" is inherently better, even if that knowledge (like shorthand) is no longer useful or needed for most people.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)but it still should be taught.
Unless you think that's retarded, sir.
tblue37
(65,408 posts)Math--at all lower levels--is foundational knowledge needed in order to learn higher math, which is itself a gateway to many major fields of study needed to move into lucrative careers.
But shorthand--and other such knowledge, like using a slide rule or an abacus--is not foundational for other essential kinds of learning.
Unlike shorthand, handling cursive is not obsolete. On the contrary, it is quite useful.
I strongly encourage my students who can't handle reading or writing in cursive to learn cursive simply because so many of their older professors will write everything in cursive, so the students who cannot read cursive end up not being able to make use of comments on their papers.
Furthermore, students who cannot write in cursive are at a real disadvantage when writing in-class essays or exams, or when taking notes, so it is a useful skill for them to master, not an obsolete one at all.
But some things need not be learned any more, and claiming that it is always better to acquire "more knowledge," without excluding from that generalization knowledge that is no longer worth the time or energy it takes to master it is silly.
BTW, I am a "Ma'am," not a "Sir."
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)That's just retarded, ma'am.
PsychoBunny
(86 posts)Sad.
1monster
(11,012 posts)levels of algebra.
If you have ever had to figure out the area of a room for laying carpet or other flooring, you have used algebra and geometry.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Haven't had to figure out area for carpet or flooring.
1monster
(11,012 posts)is mandated for food, housing, power, etc., and how much is descretionary is also algebra.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)which obviously I've been doing (attempting!) my whole life. I usually get about 60% of the words and have to extrapolate the rest. I defy anyone who is not familiar with it to get above 10%.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)How do they sign their name without doing it in cursive? Print it?
1monster
(11,012 posts)
elleng
(130,974 posts)SORRY, Sir!
Sancho
(9,070 posts)
she thinks the defense attorney is stupid!
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)
freshwest
(53,661 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)lol
dkf
(37,305 posts)
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)I hear it all the time at school..... and I always correct it. Some of them simply do not know that it is unacceptable. They always seem surprised that the "R-word" is a "bad word".
I watched Rachel's testimony and she said it very quietly. They asked her to repeat what she said, probably for the record. No one made further mention of that word, considering all the attention that was paid to "creepy-ass cracker".
dkf
(37,305 posts)Unless they are also kids...
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)And I mean any word: "nigger", "cunt", "douch", "retarded" -- for me, the context of the word usage is everything.
I think Rachel Jeantel was spot on in her assessment of Defense's theory.
WovenGems
(776 posts)The issue seems to be some don't understand what "Context" is. Yet another failing of our schools? Nope. Readers are good at it, non readers not so much.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Sometimes it's just the word and its history.
But in the case stated context was indeed the key.
dkf
(37,305 posts)The Spread the Word to End the Word campaign is pleased to announce the release of a new hard-hitting public service announcement (PSA) called "Not Acceptable."
This 30-second television PSA gives voice to a variety of diverse communities, each of whom expresses that it is not acceptable to call them by what were once common words, but are now recognized as offensive slurs. It culminates in actress and self-advocate Lauren Potter from “Glee” stating that it is not acceptable to use the word ‘retard.’ She and “Glee” co-star Jane Lynch make a call to action to stop using the R-word and to promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
One constant challenge with raising awareness about the hurtful nature of the R-word is that most people do not view it to be as hurtful as other common epithets that our society has consensually removed from our lexicon. The PSA “Not Acceptable” tackles that challenge head on in a hard-hitting and impactful way in an effort to educate our society that for people with intellectual disabilities and those that love them, the R-word is just as hurtful as any other slur. You can make a difference today by taking the pledge to stop using the word 'retard' and replace it with a new R-word: Respect.
“Not Acceptable” has been previewed by and received support from multiple advocacy organizations including the Anti-Defamation League, Special Olympics, GLAAD, Best Buddies, Hispanic Federation, National Puerto Rican Coalition, Asian American Federation, AbilityPath.org and the NAACP. See the statements of support.
http://www.r-word.org/r-word-not-acceptable-psa.aspx
She didn't call the lawyer that. Did she?
dkf
(37,305 posts)To conflate it with stupidity is also a problem.
Kids from the special Olympics started this pledge.
Are you attempting to vilify her? She was right and the bonehead (is that wrong too???) lawyer was way wrong.
dkf
(37,305 posts)But I know this community does.
It's like celebrating some n word joke.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)A true, personal example:
When I was visiting my sister in Texas a few years ago, we were walking through a Food Lion and one employee said to another as I passed by them, "What's she trying to do, look like a nigger?"
When I share that story, that is use of a suspect word in a proper context.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)Where's George Carlin when we need him?
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Would've had wayyyyy more impact.
If she had said, "That's bullshit, sir" she would've been pilloried for having a potty mouth. Anything to shoot the messenger at the expense of the message.
We live in a mind-bogglingly superficial society. Thank you, corporate media!
(And no, by the way, I do not endorse or condone the use of the word "retarded." But, may I humbly suggest, that isn't the point here.)
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)she had for the defense lawyer's claim that Trayvon was lying to her about where he was; and that he was lying because he was planning to attack Zimmerman.
Under the stress of testifying about the murder of her friend, in front of a courtroom of mostly white adults, and with a vocabulary limited by the fact that English is her third language, she used a word many adults don't like. But I think they will cut her some slack, under the circumstances.
frylock
(34,825 posts)though I would've also used stupid instead of retarded.
Coccydynia
(198 posts)Of "bad" word. We taught our children that any word used to disparage another is a bad word. So when calling someone an ass, ass is a bad word. When saying I hurt my ass, ass is perfectly acceptable.
Calling someone retarded is equally as disparaging in my book as calling someone stupid.
Calling a someone's question retarded is borderline, in that a specific person issued the question. But the question itself disingenuous, and maybe that word isn't in everyone's vocabulary.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Like calling someone "gay" intending it to be a slur...
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)Kids also use "gay" all the time to describe things, actions and people. I believe the "r-word usage is equally offensive.
Coccydynia
(198 posts)more offensive, than retarded. Which, by the way, you can use instead of the "r" word because the context of our discussion is completely void of animus. We are having a discussion of the word, its meaning, and its usage.
Coccydynia
(198 posts)I would argue that the origin of the term retarded was in fact a non-disparaging description of a medical condition. People started using the term as an insult to individuals, and the fact that those with mentally challenged children take offense from that word means that they think of their children in that same negative light.
Gay, on the other hand, was not the original term describing a homosexual. It because a term to classify/identify homosexuals, for both good and bad reasons. In this instance I can see your point.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Respect for people who have been through trauma or were born with a condition.
Coccydynia
(198 posts)not all usages originate as mean-spirited. And I would hope that when one encounters for the first time others who use the term, that one would alert them as to why one deems it inappropriate.
I just have a problem with suppression of speech, whether it be on a word level, a sentence level, or a soapbox level.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)Coccydynia
(198 posts)Butterbean
(1,014 posts)I also don't see my kid in a negative light. Nice try, though.
Until you have a special needs child who is labeled as mentally retarded and understand what a slap in the face it is to hear people flinging that word around as an insult, don't tell me how to feel about it, mmkay? It offends me, it hurts, and I don't like it. Period. To see people high fiving each other and laughing about it here just turns my stomach, to be frank.
Coccydynia
(198 posts)I disagree with your assertion that I can't empathize with those who have special needs children. You certainly don't know my family history or what challenges face my family.
I was simply putting forth my opinion on words, both spoken and heard.
There was no "nice try" involved.
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)Don't even try the turn the tables crap with me, it doesn't work. You sat there and said that parents with kids who are mentally retarded and have a problem with the r-word must see their kids in a negative light. You passed a judgment on me and every other special needs parent out there, without ever having walked in our shoes. You may have special needs people in your extended family, but parenting them is a whole other ball game, and if you had ever parented one, those words never would have come out of your mouth. So don't try the "you don't know my family situation" line either. I've heard that one a million times too.
You approve of people saying something myself and a lot of other people find deeply offensive, and think that myself and people who find it offensive must have negative views of their own children. Lots of people in this thread share your opinion that flinging the r-word around as an insult is no big deal and is hilarious and okey dokey, so you have plenty of company.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Preposterous might be the best fit. "Disingenuous" does not fit the follow-up "Trayvon did not know him.
“Maybe he decided to assault George Zimmerman and he didn’t want you to know about it,” West said.
“That’s real retarded, sir,” Jeantel pointed out. “Trayvon did not know him.”
"That's preposterous, sir, Trayvon did not know him".
Coccydynia
(198 posts)
eridani
(51,907 posts)--pull out of a hat on demand.
arrogance and lack of sympathy for this woman/girl is astounding. So all of you are so literate that you feel you can put this person down. How utterly disgusting of ALL you so literate people. Preposterous?????????????? I'm flabbergasted at the gall and arrogance of some people in this thread. HOW DARE YOU JUDGE SO HARSHLY!
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)And you take second seat to nobody. I was not taking exception to "very retarded" as it fits as used here. I was responding to another poster that suggested a substitute word and said their word didn't fit and offered a substitute. And that person was really only trying to quell the uprising of those saying that "retarded" should never be used under any circumstance. And now you come along taking the opposite extreme view. Jumping on those that attempt to ameliorate the situation shows their own arrogance. Perhaps you should read my post in the "apology" thread here on DU. It will shame you (considering the time stamp).
I'm sorry I was not responding to your post. I was responding in kind to that poster squeezing out the preposterous word. That's all I intended. Sorry if I offended.
trumad
(41,692 posts)And sure enough...they pop up in this thread.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)This isn't about Zimmerman. This is about people here thinking it's funny that she used that word just because they don't like the defense lawyer. It's not funny at any time, sorry.
there are quite a few on this site.
Response to trumad (Reply #24)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)questions.
dkf
(37,305 posts)By if its all good then whatever.
And it's not a comment on the witness who thinks cracker is not racial. It's a comment on those posters who think its funny.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)arent appropriate. The laughter was her attitude toward the defense lawyer. Now that's funny.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Certainly you can (or should) do better.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)actually. Hypocrisy.
Certain words and actions are OK as long as the persons saying or doing them are viewed as heroes
People can come up with the most ridiculous reasons to justify words or actions from their heroes that wouldn't even get off the ground from somebody they didn't like
no hero in this case, just defending herself against the arrogance, who by the way wasn't respected by this attorney, of this person. Get off it, hypocrisy is showing.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)much, if any, "arrogance" being directed toward her by the attorney questioning her. In fact, I thought he was being quite gentle with her, all things considered.
She herself was being rude and contemptuous.
As a defense lawyer, it's his JOB to discredit prosecution witnesses. Something she should have been told...or reminded of, perhaps with a signal of some sort from the prosecutor.
Be that as it may, I know how many here are rooting for Trayvon Martin to get justice. As am I. Or, rather, I'm hoping justice is meted out to whoever deserves it.
And as I look through these threads, I see where people are loving on Rachel Jeantel like she's some sort of female Robin Hood.
I was disgusted by her performance because, knowing how people can be subconsciously affected by such things, I felt that she didn't do the prosecution any favors by acting like a little shit in court.
So. Many people view her in a glowing light, and, as a result, are willing to give her more leeway with the "r" word than they would give someone here who isn't as well-liked. Even if the unliked person here used it exactly the same way.
That is hypocrisy. And it sucks.
up the good work.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
REP
(21,691 posts)I give a shit that she used a no-no word. Wait. No, I don't give a shit about her language.
The fact that people dislike the use of 'retarded' should not detract from our appreciation of her statements.
Clearly she didn't get the PC memo. This word is in common use as a fairly mild insult among the young, like it or not. There is nothing we can do about her and her peers using this term. So why let our brains snag on that and miss the larger picture?
Link Speed
(650 posts)if 'acceptable' and 'funny' are adjectives or adverbs.
But 'funny'?
Fuck, yeah.
I have some brain damage and zero education. I have been called a 'retard' in earlier times and simply laughed it off. I do not take anything seriously.
But that was fucking hilarious.
dkf
(37,305 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)You (can) learn something new every day... 
The word "retarded" is a verb. It means to slow or delay something or for something to be slowed or delayed.
"Retard" is a verb in intended use. It also means to slow or delay.
"Retard" as a noun is a corruption of the intended use of the word and is an insult.
(Not aiming this at you, just using my answer to you as a forum
Merlot
(9,696 posts)
roody
(10,849 posts)retarded?
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Must you twist everything? Like claiming with no evidence that Zimmerman had a broken nose.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)
Original post stating "acceptable" to call an action "retarded" - based on the response I did receive, and my mulling this over, I am most definitely mistaken and I am wrong.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)To me it is similar to saying something is "gay". It is offensive to a group of people who were stigmatized as being labeled "retarded". It is inappropriate in most contexts, except for meaning that something was delayed or slowed down, such as in certain scientific contexts.
Please take a look at this link: http://www.r-word.org/r-word-effects-of-the-word.aspx
It explains why the R-word is now considered unacceptable and demeaning.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)The Oxford English Dictionary agrees with you. It states that it has become an offensive word over the years.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/retarded?q=retarded
As for "gay" it used to be acceptable to call something "gay". Today it would be confusing at least. The word "gay" changed its meaning, also becoming a noun in the process.
The English language is a very fluid language which does change over time. And yes words do change meanings. The word "wireless" is not associated with AM/FM radio but is now associated with cellular mobile telephones. Strangely enough I do call the radio "the wireless" because that is the word I have associated with it, and don't use it with respect to mobile phones.
You have challenged my thinking and I thank you. In respect to the OP and the witness using that particular phrase, replacing that word with a synonym makes the sentence as a more direct insult to the lawyer who was questioning her. She could have used a better choice of words.
Again, thank you.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)She said that is retarded, not you are retarded.
I felt nothing but maternal instincts for her and I'm a 50+ year old dude. I wonder how her testimony was received by the all female jury.
or it will become the most common response to your posts.
egduj
(805 posts)If someone you agree with uses the word, then it's fine. If it's someone you disagree with, then it's bigoted and offensive.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Same reason I do not use the n word.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Painful injury put your butt in a chair and now you have to dog us??
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)I could call that lawyer an idiot or a moron and be doing exactly the same thing the witness did.
Both were names for what we now call developmentally disabled.
Every time the name was bastardized by using it as an insult, the name was changed. Maybe it's time to stop running away from names and instead work on compassion for those who have such mental challenges.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Each community deserves respect and refraining from using certain words is what we do for each other.
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)We can criticize her choice of words, but that doesn't matter in court.
longship
(40,416 posts)Sheesh!
dkf
(37,305 posts)Geez Louise.
Fighting the R-word, Worldwide
People use the R-word, retarded, carelessly or as an insult. Here are stories about ways we've dealt with it.
http://www.specialolympics.org/03-31-09_Spread_the_Word.aspx
longship
(40,416 posts)But she is an young immigrant in a young person's culture which has been using "retard" for over a generation. I remember it from the 1950's when I was in elementary school.
What she was really doing was ridiculing that lawyer's suggestion using a vernacular familiar to her and the people with whom she associated.
If you want to purge the word, start in the elementary schools. It's too late when it gets to the courtroom.
dkf
(37,305 posts)I don't understand why this board is chortling though.
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)Stupid or idiotic would have been a more PC choice, but at least she called him out the best she could. I'm not expecting many here to attack her, even if she did use a word that is taboo.
longship
(40,416 posts)The defense attorney has been badgering her.
I didn't see any of it, but I, too, was happy to hear that she rhetorically slammed his fingers in the door.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Lots of stuff to chuckle over if you are so inclined.
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)I'm sure the defense provided a lot to chuckle about, but provoking the witness to call his question retarded seems to be one thing that stands out for the day's events and seems to be the most disseminated. I don't agree with the term used, but I can't disagree with what she meant.
cares, if you excuse her.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...she wasn't on DU for that explanation, and the word has been flung at her more than a few times in her life.
You are responsible for what you know, and she is responsible for what she knows.
It is not acceptable to shit your pants in public either. There are infants who do not know that yet.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Abled"?
J/S.
OwnedByCats
(805 posts)If anyone on this board used "retarded" in reference to a person or action, we would (understandably) not be accepting of it and certainly wouldn't find it funny.
However she's young, hopefully at some point she'll realize that it's not a nice thing to say, among other things.
dkf
(37,305 posts)OwnedByCats
(805 posts)It's not ok under any circumstances, IMO. I was a bit taken aback to see people applauding it here of all places! They seem to think it's ok because they dislike the defense lawyer. Things like this show people's true colors.
eridani
(51,907 posts)OwnedByCats
(805 posts)any better based on language barriers, upbringing and/or age, however my real problem is I can not excuse people who should know better than to think it's funny or appropriate just because they dislike the defense attorney. Sorry, but that's no excuse. It's hypocritical and not at all funny.
eridani
(51,907 posts)And it was a perfect description of the defense attorney's statement, given that initial starting condition.
OwnedByCats
(805 posts)my dispute. My problem is she used the word not knowing any better, but others are laughing and celebrating. Only the understanding of why she chose that word is necessary here. People just need to think before they type.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)the point is, that it's unseemly for people here, of all places, to actually cheer on her use of that word.
I understand that she is still relatively young, and may not understand that it's not a nice word.
But it's disgraceful, at the very least, to see people here cheer her on. If anything, I would think people would feel somewhat badly for her, and cringe a little, hoping that someone along the way helps her to figure it out. It's possible to do that without shaming her, you know.
She did not say "You're retarded."
It's exactly the difference between getting a post hidden and leaving it stand.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)"you're retarded".
She called something he said "retarded".
And why, exactly, did she do that? Because what he said was the greatest thing since sliced bread?
No. Because she felt that what he said was stupid. Idiotic. Unworthy. Repulsive.
IOW, she equated the word "retarded" with the state of something being bad and ugly.
OK...so, there's a reply above from a parent of an MR child. She is highly offended by that word. Go on up and tell her that people should identify her MR child with things that are bad, stupid, unworthy, repulsive, and ugly.
THAT is why DU defense of that word, when it's used to describe something the user finds stupid or idiotic, is so disgusting.
Ms. Jeantel didn't need to be a Rhodes Scholar, FGS. She could have said, "That's stupid" instead.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
niyad
(113,344 posts)statement was. surely the distinction does not escape you?
1monster
(11,012 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)When you talk about the most vulnerable amongst us surely this population some called the r-word deserves consideration. My sister works with kids in this group and she tells me what they go through, the services she provides and how hard it is for them and their families. She is so proud of her success stories, happy when she sees her kids opening up and progressing.
She teaches her own children to not use words that demean. I respect that.
1monster
(11,012 posts)I am well aware of the most vulnerable among us.
Militant lecturing and badgering demanding that people conform to your beliefs doesn't do any cause any good. It actively turns people off or into adversaries.
I also work quite often with "Educable Mentally Handicapped" or EMH students. They are some of the sweetest, most well-behavaed children I've ever been around. And if I catch anyone belittling them or demeaning them in any way, I let them know that they are out of line. But since most of them do it out of ignorance (and some of them out of fear becasue they also come under the heading of Exceptional Student Education), I try to educate them in a non-demeaning, gentle way that helps them to see the EMH kids as people who are deserving of respect.
Hitting them over the head and making every subject remotely connected to my hobby horse as fair game to bore those who may have purposely or inadvertantly offended certainly does not change any minds or actions.
You might want to take some of that zeal you display here and find out how the criminal justice system in this country treats the "most vulnerable among us" when they break laws without knowing or understanding the laws in the first place. The prisons are full of them and they are given harsher sentences than people who knowingly commit the same crimes.
Frankly, I think the young woman testifying used the word correctly.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)sad-cafe
(1,277 posts)I found her refreshing and her anguish was real
She feels guilty for being the last person to talk to Trayvon
mountain grammy
(26,624 posts)homegirl
(1,429 posts)Congratulations to this young lady for not being intimidated by the $300. an hour attorney. She knew what he was trying to do to her testimony and she called it like she saw it.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)JackN415
(924 posts)grok
(550 posts)Especially to teen girls Never try to impress them..
It must be "retarded" to even think so.
No sir!
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)and that's a fact. Too.
Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)by claiming some weirdo is following me.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)That was a pretty standard pick-up line for teenage boys when I was one: hey, babe, there's this guy here and I'm kinda scared of him.
Unbelievable.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)the person you're responding to, has wanted zimpig to walk from day one.
JI7
(89,252 posts)grok
(550 posts)Here i am NOT being sarcastic for once...
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10023115083#post128
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
jeff47
(26,549 posts)than saying you're terrified of the weirdo following you.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)he liied about the creepy asshole following him? why would that impress a girl? if he wanted to impress her, i think he would have told he he was going to kick his creepy ass, not being afraid of him. you apologists are really running out of excuses. none of your theories or claims make any sense.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)I love her authenticity, her ability to jab back, her candor, everything. It's so refreshing, in world where fake people seem to be the norm.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)most likely the DA's prepped her to expect being badgered.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)by representing him incompetently.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Nice one, Rachel!
tavernier
(12,392 posts)I can't imagine any other reason why he would have hired him. Not one.
Turbineguy
(37,343 posts)Never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to.
Cha
(297,323 posts)Rachel did good!
thanks Play
grok
(550 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2013, 02:28 AM - Edit history (1)
which happened before the "retarded" comment about 30 seconds before.
I actually missed it. till now. More consumed by the "novelty" of the "retarded" comment. I doubt the jury missed it
Context...
Wesr implies that Trayvon could have ran home.instead of fighting. DD says he is already next to his house. This is an impossibility and West realizes that. The fight started around three hundred feet away from his house. of course he WOULD have been there if he HAD run/walked all the way home long ago. That DOESN'T take 3 whole minutes
West notices it and pauses for a few seconds, hoping the Jury notices the ramifications too.
West then conveys to DD Martin might have lied to her WITHOUT telling her that her story doesn't jive anymore with the facts.
Then DD says that "that's really retarded" comment.
I’m convinced. DD does believe she knows the truth. she doesn't realize what she just did. And if if the jury was paying attention, unlike me, so do they.
This video shows it all....
http://studio.ndnmediaservices.com/wpix?freewheel=91044&sitesection=wpix_nationworld&VID=24912211
West didn't look pretty and DD looked sassy. but that doesn't change the fact.
Trayvon DID lie to her.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Just like Zimmerman didn't want to give out his address within potential earshot of a "fucking punk asshole" <his words, not mine> I think it's entirely plausible that Martin didn't want to go home directly letting the crazy stalker dude know where he was staying.
I know I wouldn't. Anyway, the meat of the prosecution is just beginning. The timeline.
7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.
7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.
What was Zimmerman doing during these ~3 minutes? Not walking back to his truck, that's certain, because that would take about thirty-five seconds. Was he still hunting?
His deposition says that Martin jumped out of a bush and attacked him moments after his call with the police ended. But he didn't know about the phone time stamps.
grok
(550 posts)thanks. I will fix my post. my bad.
all we know for sure is that Z was far far closer to his truck than T was to his house when the fight broke out. and that Trayvon LIED about where he was to DD. As for trayvon not wanting to go home, fine doesn't change the fact that he LIED to DD.
I could make the walk from the T to the truck in 15-20 seconds. 35 seconds is ridiculous..
Trayvon was already out of sight for about a minute. As far as what trayvon or martin did after 1.5 to 3 minutes more? all we have is the word of dd who said trayvon was next to his house(WRONG) and zimmerman who WAS close to his truck(RIGHT) when the fight started. zimmerman claims he walked to see the number of the house on the left of the T and was walking back past the T on his way back to his car.
I haven't a clue if Trayvon was hiding in the bushes or came back from wherever. but he did LIE to DD.
WAY WAY at the far end of this path is the Martin/GF house. so he could NOT have been BY his house.
dpibel
(2,833 posts)Everyone, on either side, who declares, "This is it! This trial is over," has never been involved in a trial.
What you have is a data point that the defense may decide to emphasize (assuming that, in fact, Nelson/West actually had the insight you did). And when that happens, the prosecution will work to explain it: What is the meaning of "by"? Are those Martin's exact words, or is that Jeantel's recollection/interpretation of his words?
Everybody will argue about it, you bet.
This idea that cases rise and fall on one single clincher is TV stuff. Trials are an aggregation of huge amounts of information. Jeantel is not the only witness. The other witnesses count.
The notion, argued by both sets of online advocates in this case, that any single bit of testimony is the end of the story is, frankly, insane.
There's no "gotcha" moment in a real trial. They're not like the movies. The jurors actually listen to all the evidence. They actually weigh it. They will remember this moment if your hero West actually caught it, because he and his team will pound it like hell in closing argument. But it's just one witness' testimony.
She wasn't there. Her opinion of where Martin was at any given moment is automatically weak. She was on the phone. She wasn't tracking him on GPS. He wasn't giving her a moment-by-moment account. "I'm now at the intersection of X and Y. Now I've walked 50 feet."
I understand that you are very excited to have cracked the case, and that it will now assuredly come out the way you like.
I'd suggest that you wait.
Really. The defense hasn't even put its case on yet.
It's very early to be rendering a verdict.
grok
(550 posts)This merely explains why this was not such a good moment for the prosecution. To put it mildly.
Im just having fun arguing this point. 
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)in the dark and in the rain, being chased by a weird, aggressive stranger, THOUGHT that he was near his father's fiance's apartment?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)per the witness.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)reusrename
(1,716 posts)If he is in sight of his house it is hardly a LIE to tell someone he is near his house, especially having just been on an hour-long walk.
I certainly hope the jury is smarter than this.
John2
(2,730 posts)you. We know a lot more than that. I think everything needs to be bought in, including the past violent histories of both people involved now.
You talked about Trayvon lying but you didn't even know the kid. Did you just stereotype him? Everybody is painting George Zimmerman as this good citizen, always following the rules and the law. I think the gloves need to come off.
There is no indication Trayvon Martin had a violent history and started fights. Now we are talking about a juvenile. His records showed Trayvon was guilty of being tardiness from class. He was guilty of writing Graffitti on school walls. He was caught with the possession of female jewelry and what people claimed to be a screw driver on his possession. No history of violence or fighting. No history of lying. What you have here are typical childish juvenile pranks. The kid got suspended for three in a row.
Now George Zimmerman. He was arrested for assaulting an officer and drunken behavior. The charges were reduced after plea bargaining. Keep in mind this is not a juvenile but an adult male. He was arrested or charged with speeding. He was accused of domestic violence against his girl friend. She filed first and counter charged. They were both granted restraining orders. Now I don't know if this is all the prosecutors have on George Zimmerman, but there have been other allegations made against him.
Now I understand the prosecutors were reluctant to charge Zimmerman in the first place, but I wonder, if they are putting out all the possible evidence available against George Zimmerman in this case? The weight of past violence in Zimmerman's character or past history, outweighs that of Trayvon Martin.
Lets talk about lying under oath or inconsistant prior statements. George Zimmerman has already made prior statements as well as his father,mother, wife and brother. They are all open to be subpoenaed by the prosecutor. I found out Mr Zimmerman is a retired magistrate. I noticed Zimmerman's accounts has changed before obtaining a lawyer. He has also given interviews. His father has made statements to the media. I notice his father is a retired magistrate. Zimmerman appears to have been coached. His father gave different accounts than Zimmerman's first claims.
Zimmerman also was taking Criminal Justice classes in College. One of those Classes was Juvenile Justice. One of the subject matters in Juvenile justice is profiling potential suspects. That is where Zimmerman could have learned to profile Martin. In those classes, usually minorities are profiled the most and targeted by police unfairly. Zimmerman claimed there was a number of breakins recently in the community and Martin hadn't been seen before by him.
Now we don't know if there is any evidence Zimmerman could have been surveilling and stalking Martin earlier, but he sure gave a good description of Martin at night, including exact age. Is that a coincidence? I also understand Zimmerman wasn't making good grades in that course. I know something about the subject myself. I know that I did better than Zimmerman in it
for a clue. I wonder how he got a gun without a background check and his criminal record? And I don't buy the Dog excuse. There are laws about violent pets and what to do. It sure isn't getting a gun. What ever police officer told him that needs to be disciplined.
handmade34
(22,756 posts)Trayvon Martin had no reason to lie to a friend
know who you're hoping walks. You have one word, lied. I have three words, unarmed shot dead.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and it is not working out too well for you. same with zimmerman, in spite of all your efforts on his behalf, i think the jury believed the witness' account of what happened.
grok
(550 posts)of what she was told. She has been rehabilitated in my eyes after the prevarications she said last year.
What Martin told her is entirely different matter. If she chooses to believe what she is told, that's fine.
But I am not forced to because i know some crucial facts she actually doesn't. She WOULD have if she had the been well coached or could read the docs.
Well for me? Nothing to lose or gain. I may have a point of view, but i am not emotionally tied to it, ergo can see more clearly than some here. I can be corrected when need be and not have a cow about it.
Bryn
(3,621 posts)I was worried at first, but now.. haha... he underestimated her. She's smarter than he thought.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Ordinarily I do not use that word and encourage others to avoid it but like many words, sometimes it works and this was one time.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)use the word retarded anymore! As far as I'm concerned, she used the word correctly!!
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)DICED!"
Good God.
And THEN some people actually thinking West is SERIOUS in his "wondering" if Trayvon was LYING to Rachel, that he, Trayvon, was actually about to attack Z!
WEST HIMSELF would GUFFAW at any fool who finds that fabricating in any way feasible!
John2
(2,730 posts)as a defense lawyer, taking advantage of a witness, not on his intellectual level. Someone like me would have made a fool out of him. I would say, some of his questioning was racially intended themselves. He was not in the shoes of this Black male teenager at night being stalked by what he perceived as a crazy white man. It didn't mean Trayvon was racist against all white people, but just a reaction against Zimmerman. The lawyer made the leap Trayvon was racist against all white people. If there is no evidence, Trayvon was racist in the past or at school, then you got a problem.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)a ways...
She used the word "retarded" in reference to something she found:
stupid
repugnant
idiotic
unworthy
What if she had used "That's gay, sir" instead?
Using the word "gay", of course, to mean that what the defense attorney said was
stupid
repugnant
idiotic
unworthy
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find many in the LGBT community coming out to say they were offended by the association of the word "gay" with something that's
stupid
repugnant
idiotic
unworthy
They might understand her possible ignorance of the association, but I'll bet they would be pissed as hell at people here cheering on the use of the word "gay" to mean things that are bad and ugly. And I wouldn't blame them.
PsychoBunny
(86 posts)becuz she used it for good reason. She isn't smart enough to find a word off the top of her head that would satisfy the word police here.
BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)First, for Jeantel to have gotten the better of the defense lawyer in this case.
Second, for the word "retarded" to be considered offensive and to be against its usage in this context (or any context in which it is meant to be similar to "stupid". Jeantel likely did not know this, but I would hope nobody on this board (or anywhere) would use that word in that sense.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)
EC
(12,287 posts)when she said that and just cracked up...I was thinking of a similar thought at the defense attorney at that point anyway.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)An important point we may be missing is that this young woman has difficulty switching codes. Look at the Latino architect yesterday. Clearly she did speak some English as she sometimes anticipated the English questions with answers before her interpreter said them in Spanish. She smiled when it happened. But she somehow felt that trying to testify in English might rattle her to the point she'd mess up. So if an educated woman employed in the US for ten years felt this way, we can't expect a 19 year old who does not speak English at home (her mom speaks French Creole). That is three languages she speaks. 1) French Creole. 2) a limited form of French. 3) English street slang of African American kids in Miami. She should have learned a lot more of a 4th code: Standard English as taught in the schools, on TV in varying degrees, church -- hopefully from some positive influence in her community that will help her learn the 4th code. Because we all know that is the language of power in America. That is the code that all people of color must strive to learn. It is the code that deciphers everything else.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023118881#post15
On edit: Typo
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)
nolabels
(13,133 posts)The insane device in which people on the stand in court are not allowed to inquire or comment about others relevance in questions is part of our flawed system.
crim son
(27,464 posts)what, exactly, she meant by using it. I doubt she could have made her response any more to the point.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)As a matter of fact, the longer she was on the stand, the more I understood her. Rachel is not dumb. At times I cheered out "You go girl!"
RVN VET
(492 posts)Her friend was murdered and she's being treated like an ignorant fool by the lawyer. She's testifying to the best of her ability and the butthead lawyer asks her a question which is absolutely stupid and ridiculous. She says the question is absolutely stupid and ridiculous. She didn't say "hey, intellectually challenged people should be scorned." She said "you just asked a dumb ass question." Look, this kid had to admit in court -- among other humiliating things butthead dragged out of her -- that she couldn't read cursive writing. I give her kudos for restraining herself.
And I think what she said was poignant and on the mark: Trayvon would not have done something as stupid as you just described. And if he didn't do something as stupid as you just described, he must have been doing what he told me he was doing -- trying to get away from that little racist pig who murdered him.
Please, can we get back on track?
*look it up.
zbdent
(35,392 posts)unlike some, she "told the truth".
