I suggest that if you are worried about the NSA rather than the FBI...

[Recursion]

... then you have managed to get the releases from the past few weeks exactly backwards. The NSA protocols are a good deal better than I had worried they were since 2008. The situation with the FBI is more troubling.

Then again DU at large doesn't seem to get that these are two very different things.

[magellan]

1. The FBI gets some of its intelligence from the NSA

"NSA" covers the whole icky surveillance ball of wax to me.

[Recursion]

4. That synecdoche is part of the board's disconnect here

The turf war among NSA, FBI, and CIA never stopped and this notion of a monolithic "security state" is kind of silly.

Short version:

The NSA, as authorized by the 2008 FISA amendment, monitors the communications of suspected foreign threats to the US. Digital communication being what it is, in the process of doing that, they sometimes also end up monitoring the communications of Americans. As we found out, when this happens, they have to destroy the information unless certain criteria are met, some of which are IMO too broad, but I had thought since 2008 that they kept all incidental taps, which apparently is not the case. This process is primarily Internet-focused rather than telephony-focused, but most telephone traffic goes through the Internet at some point nowadays.

The FBI, in an unrelated and uncoordinated program, is collecting significant amounts of data about the phone communications of all Americans, and this mass cultural confusion about which organization is what seems to have let them bury that in the NSA news story.

[magellan]

14. Except the FISA order is for Verizon to turn all its records over to the NSA.

2nd para:

"IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that, the Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency (NSA) upon service of this Order, and continue production on an ongoing daily basis thereafter for the duration of this Order, unless otherwise ordered by the Court, an electronic copy of the following tangible things: all call detail records or "telephony metadata" created by Verizon for communications (i) between the United States and abroad; or (ii) wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls."

[Recursion]

15. See Mueller's comments on that; the FBI is the requesting and receiving agency

Though the NSA does the legwork since they have the servers.

[magellan]

18. Oh, but turf wars and all that?

Does the NSA hold the intelligence it's collected from the telcos for ransom or does it let the FBI have it as needed?

[Recursion]

19. Good question (nt)

[jberryhill]

10. I hope they got their looks from mom...

...because dad was butt ugly

[Autumn]

2. Did I miss something? What's up with the FBI?

[kentuck]

3. They do the dirty work for the NSA...?

Perhaps someone will enlighten us?

[Autumn]

6. It's a mystery. Maybe one has to be in the loop

[Recursion]

7. No, it's all in the papers, the FBI is just better at timing their releases it seems

The bulk request from the US phone carriers was for the FBI, not the NSA. The NSA doesn't do bulk requests; it tracks specific communications profiles.

[Autumn]

9. Don't they all work in cahoots? I thought they started doing that after 911.

[Recursion]

12. Well, that I can answer with a resounding "no"

Bureaucratic infighting is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The NSA under certain conditions is required to forward evidence of criminal activity to the FBI (those conditions are problematic and I think should be tightened up). The FBI under broader conditions is allowed to forward evidence of foreign threats to the US to the NSA. But the FBI also considers many foreign threats to the US to be under its own jurisdiction.

There's not a monolithic surveillance state; there are several competing agencies trying to justify their budgets.

[Autumn]

17. I think I'll worry about both of them.

[kentuck]

11. And the new building in Utah is for the FBI?

Right?

[Recursion]

13. That's the GSA (GSA, not NSA) as far as everything I've seen in the news indicates

I'm not sure why that particular story attracts so much attention; there are bigger datacenters being planned as it is, for both the public and private sector.

[kentuck]

16. I had heard differently.

I heard it was to store records collected on American citizens.

[Harmony Blue]

5. Patriot Act

allows the NSA and FBI to have unprecedented cooperation.

[Recursion]

8. Allows? Yes. Turf wars don't go away by statute, though

And, anyways, if we're to believe Snowden the NSA recognizes two primary sources of information on communications: data procured from providers by a warrant, and upstream tapping on the physical lines. That's why the kind of request the FBI is making wouldn't help them.

[pscot]

20. FBI people are true believers

NSA are IT guys and airport gropers; ambitious amateurs. The FBI are pros; very smart cops, well steeped in wickedness.

[Romulus Quirinus]

21. Thanks for the info! nt