What is your honest opinion of the NSA?

[kentuck]

Do you love what they do to protect our country from terrorists and foreign enemies?

Or do you think they are a pit of vipers, with no oversight, and thieves of the public treasury?

Do you tend to trust the NSA over Greenwald and Snowden, the leakers? Does your opinion of the NSA color how you might feel about the Snowden story?

[HardTimes99]

1. Hey Kentuck. I just started a thread along similar lines a couple minutes ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023086131

Maybe I should self-delete mine to make space for yours (or vice versa)? Let me know your thoughts.

My thoughts are all aswirl right now and I lean towards cutting the NSA's budget (mainly b/c I disapprove of governments that spy on their own people).

[kentuck]

6. No. Don't delete your post.

It is a different question. But thanks for your comments. What do they say? Weak minds think alike?

[backscatter712]

2. Pit of vipers. Next question...

[Arctic Dave]

3. Scumbags, like most of the spy apparatus.

Digital panty sniffers.

[cloudbase]

4. They serve a valuable purpose.

It's not a very nice world out there. That said, they're like any other government agency. The number one purpose after performing their function is to make certain that the agency continues to receive a greater share of the budget and greater influence in Washington, and they'll do whatever it takes to do that.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

5. Fine bunch of people, every last one of them.

[Junkdrawer]

7. The Inner Party monitoring the Outer Party....

Don't give a fuck about the Proles.

But some in the Outer Party have a conscience, so force them to sign a Security oath, then monitor the shit out of them.

[Coyotl]

8. A bunch of Bushies earning too much money and doing next to nothing.

Rednecks at the public troughs, not much more. And, if we did not have a bunch of rednecks like Bush running the USA, we would not have enemies.

[MichiganVote]

9. Seems to have become another public money maker for elites who don't work shit.

Private services of sensitive public information in the hands of a person without so much as a HS diploma? Fucking and totally lame.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right."

Thomas Paine

"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton

[NightWatcher]

11. To be fair 99.99% of people have no idea what they do

Sure we all heard about this metadata story, but that's almost laughable. They provide a service within our Defense structure.

[randome]

15. Yours is the most valid post on this thread.

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[NightWatcher]

25. People in the intel game like to call it No Such Agency

I used to be in the know and I had no idea what they all did.

Most of their stuff is extremely compartmentalized. People work on parts of jobs and may not know where their work fits in to the big picture. I was very skeptical about Snowden being able to have all the info that he claimed for that reason.

[randome]

29. Bureaucracy serves a purpose sometimes. To keep that compartmentalization in place.

If 'down with metadata' becomes the rallying cry as a result of this, it's a sad commentary on how low people's expectations have become.

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[Hekate]

31. I know you are right.

Personally, I think the information gathering organizations in our government are a necessary part of foreign and domestic affairs. A necessary evil if you will.

However, I also think that as of the Bush Junior administration they expanded beyond all reason, even metastasized. Too much was given over to private contractors and too much oversight lapsed. In my opinion, no essential government function should EVER be wholly contracted out: not the army, not even the army cooks, and certainly not spying.

We have a big problem, but there are no simple solutions.

[NightWatcher]

33. The privatization got crazy under Clinton

When poppy bush left office all of his cronies were in place in the private sector, ready to cash in.

[scarletwoman]

12. I want to see the NSA drowned in a bathtub.

I want to see the new data collection center in Utah struck by a giant meteorite and reduced to dust.

I want the Patriot Act repealed. I want the National Security State dismantled.

Yes, they are thieves of the public treasury. They are not for our protection, they exist solely to further the control of the world by the autocrats and plutocrats.

No people will ever be truly free unless we rid ourselves of these insidious shadow powers.

[grntuscarora]

13. Another vote for pit of vipers.

nt.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

14. They do more harm than good. I expect the ratio is very tilted toward harm.

I'd rather see them close up shop than to continue with what they've been doing. I harbor no illusions that my wish will come true though.

[Octafish]

16. They're the greatest.

Raymond Shaw. Ha ha. I make joking. NSA is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life

[DJ13]

17. I think they are wonderful, caring people, with only our best interests in mind

[Vattel]

19. rofl

funny, and the eye is appropriately creepy

[FarCenter]

18. The collection of signals intelligence and the protection of US classified info is essential

Those are their two missions, and they are vital. The scope of each can be argued over, but not whether they are needed.

[kentuck]

22. And we need the CIA also?

Aren't they duplicated in their missions?

[FarCenter]

26. The CIA is collecting human intelligence, doing analysis of multiple sources, and doing covert ops

The CIA does traditional spying, while the NSA collects electronic signals. They overlap only when CIA, for example, does physical entry to get access to crypto keys, passwords, etc. These are then used to decrypt intercepts that the NSA already has.

And NSA does not do covert operations, AFAIK.

There are other branches, such as the National Reconnaissance Office, which uses satellites to image the earth at multiple wavelengths, but also probably manages satellites which collect radio emissions from earth, e.g. cell phone transmissions from areas where direct intercept is not possible.

[kentuck]

28. I guess they are not into multi-tasking?

I'm sure they never intrude on the others space?

[FarCenter]

35. NSA and CIA are two out of the sixteen US intelligence community members

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

They are all under the oversight and management of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

[avebury]

20. Dangerous to this country.

The NSA has privatized too much of its function. I don't trust the NSA and fear that their mission will evolve into protecting the MIC, Corporations and the 1% from the people.

[zappaman]

21. I think the NSA needs more funding.

I've always loved outer space and remember watching the moon landing live in grade school.
I hope we never give up space exploration and would love to see us one day go to Mars...

[warrprayer]

23. ba-dump-TA!

[warrprayer]

24. Read James Bamford

They are by and large wicked smart people doing a job.

[MattFromKY]

27. An excellent employment opportunity for those in IT. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Nuanced

They need curtailing, as in post 911 privatization frenzy

They also most go back to their original, very targeted mission. Heck I can bet they will catch a few more terrorists to. The real kind.

Short of that...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. I have friends who work there. We shouldn't demonize all NSA workers. They do a good service

for this country.

You provide false choices, not to mention, your use of hyperbole in the way you frame these questions make this thread problematic.

Trashing thread for those reasons.

[Thinkingabout]

34. NSA provides a service to this nation, but when scumbags gets access it can really be bad.

There should be better background checks on those working within the NSA. It does not bother me they are collecting phone call records, the bad part is when a scumbag intentionally steals the information trying to make a name for themselves. I hope the cause group gets investigated we don't need espionage plots.

[daleanime]

36. Every single $ in the NSA budget....

should placed in Education, that way we have some real intelligences.

[ksoze]

37. The do an important service and are demonized by those not in the know

The value they provide is only known if they were not around - and I suspect we would not be as free as we are today.

[winter is coming]

38. The NSA is so opaque that it's difficult to tell how much good or harm it does,

but any organization that apparently proceeds from the premise "we should know everything about you and you should know nothing about us" is perilous. The potential for abuse, whether it's to serve someone's partisan agenda or whether it's simply to cover their own asses, is too high, IMO.

[TheKentuckian]

39. Dangerous tools that are too easily perverted, at best.

Another resource funnel and system of control, at worst.