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Iceberg Louie

(190 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:28 PM Jun 2013

The Third Party: Pipe Dream or Logical Fallacy?

Right now the "extremists" on both sides are clamoring for a third party. However, best of luck to anyone who tries to put together a platform to unite these factions. On the right, we have bigoted knee-jerk reactionaries puppeteered by laissez-faire anarcho-capitalists. They call themselves "libertarians", but could give a hoot less about the liberties of immigrants, women, gays, underprivileged, or for that matter, anyone who sees Leave It To Beaver as anything but a wet dream. On the left are the progressives, social libertarians and proletarians. The very notion of accepting that the world moves forward is enough to disenfranchise the reactionaries, who since at least the Industrial Revolution refuse to let go of the whimsy that if they close their eyes, plug their ears and yell "lalala" long enough and loud enough, the "good ole days" will return, or, at least, the forward passage of time will be stunted. Without the capacity to move beyond this signature stubbornness which defines their very nature, the teabillies, Moral Majority, John Birch Society, KKK, or whatever new shine they slap on the old turd, will by definition oppose anything under the umbrella of "progress". The progressives, motivated by a zeal for social justice, concern for the realities of the future, and an arguably naive optimism for true equality, will, by their own nature, reject concessions to the reactionaries.

So both sides, equally disenchanted by the establishment wings of their respective parties, form a third and fourth party. For the sake of discussion, let's call them the Progressive and Regressive Parties. Rallying their base might not be so hard for the Regressives, for they have been well-conditioned to react to phony indignance and effectively bark on command (these are, after all, the ones who oppose teaching critical thinking in public schools.) For the Progressives, we must be honest. Many progressive idealists share a tendency towards individualism, and are often characterized by, for lack of a better descriptor, aloof intellectualism. While these can be positive qualities in generating ideas and discussion, they hardly form the basis of unity and action. Ideally, the pro-labor faction would be on this side as well, wherein we would see a greater cohesion than otherwise. However, this does not assume that the whole of the working class/middle class will become endeared to the message of fairness, equity, and a level playing field. Many among them have conservatism in their blood, and as such are easily spooked by whisperings of "collectivism", which the propagandists of the elite will never hesitate to implement.

Now we come to Election Day, where the voters have their choice of four (presumably) equally viable candidates, the Pros, Dems, Reps, and Regs. Bearing in mind the motivating factor behind the formation of the two new parties, it can be reasonably assumed that the financial/industrial elite now control the remaining vestiges of both the Democratic and Republican parties wholesale (as opposed to the populist facades they currently bear.) Unfortunately, the Regressives (nee Tea Partiers) are, as many of us are painfully aware, also herded and corralled by the same elitists, albeit through thinly-veiled backdoor channels like the American Enterprise Institute and other such sham operations. I highly doubt that the "Merikuh fer Merikins" set will have the wherewithall to marshall their own resources and exorcise these oligarchs from their leadership. The low-information and apathetic voters will remain easily swayed by whatever the corporate media convinces them, which of course will be that the Dems and Reps are the tried and true stalwarts of our democracy. Rest assured that the corporate agenda, dictated at the executive level, will have a great deal of incentive to discredit whichever side the labor is aligned with.

While my speculations are wildly oversimplistic and lack adequate metrics to make an informed prediction, I'll assume each candidate gets roughly 25% of the vote. The win margin, of course, could become as little as 0.25% of the electoral college. Whichever way the wind may blow, at the end of the day, the parties serving at the pleasure of the wealthy robber-barons now hold approximately 75% of the voting bloc.

The way to overcome this depressing inevitability, you may counter, is to pull together the masses. The populist majority versus the elitist minority. Return again to the beginning of this post, you find that this aspiration becomes a veritable Mobius strip of improbability. Why? Because those who truly pull the strings, the masters of the military-industrial-penal-financial complex and their minions who have made the establishment parties so revolting to idealists on both sides, have perfected the art of the wedge issue. They continue to pit us against each other, distracting us from their real agenda, the concentration of wealth and power and the suppression of the "peasant class". Until we all find within ourselves the capacity to transcend these biases (some justifiable, some manufactured), those in power will continue to remain so.

So, to those dissatisfied with the current state of establishment politics (like myself), do we branch off and form an initiative that is likely doomed to gain measurable traction, or do we pick the "lesser of evils" and do our best to uphold progressive principles in a party which includes imperfect politicians but also a platform of hope for a better future?

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Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
1. "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:35 PM
Jun 2013
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams


"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all."
--Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
3. thank you for these quotes. It seems so hopeless, but if I vote my conscience at least I know
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:48 PM
Jun 2013

I did what I could for my children. It seems all my past votes have betrayed my children's future. Well no more.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
2. I just can't do it anymore. I have been voting democrat loyally for 19 yrs now, and the party
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:42 PM
Jun 2013

has done nothing but go further and further to the right. I simply cannot vote for candadites that do not represent me. I can't do it anymore. Personally, I think I will start looking into local politics. And this time I am going to vote for the candadite I believe represents me. If there is a liberal democrat to vote for, I will vote for them. If there is not, I will vote for somone who does represent me.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
4. You are not alone
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:51 PM
Jun 2013

And the partisans (on both sides) are missing this.

I have heard this a lot in the last two weeks. Personally that is the way I am leaning. I cover local politics so that makes it easier. Pay special attention to judge races.

tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
11. Get involved locally
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:04 PM
Jun 2013

I know that on the Democratic ticket I will vote for (at least in November as I have to vote in October too), I have personally met every one of my candidates at least once. (Well the gubernatorial ticket is not yet complete as she has yet to chose her running mate so I don't know if I've met him/her).

Last year, the only Democrat on the ticket I have not met (I've since shook his hand) was Barack Obama.

Usually your local Democrats are looking for people to run for the low-level offices (school board, council/committee, mayor, etc) and use these local offices as a farm system for higher office. Consider running yourself.

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
6. It all depends on whether you want to assuage your own conscience
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:57 PM
Jun 2013

or make a difference in the world.

I would personally like to have more viable choices, but in a way we already have that with the Primaries.

Currently, we do have additional parties on most ballots, but these only serve in a "spoiler" capacity. For instance, the Green Party tends to take votes away from the Democratic candidate, whereas the Constitution Party tends to take votes away from the Repuke - sorry, force of habit, I mean the Republican Party.

So, although voting for a Third Party candidate may make you personally "feel better" about your choice, in essence you are throwing your vote away voting for a candidate that you now has no chance of winning. It's much better to vote for "the lesser of two evils" because then at least you can have an impact.

And remember, no two people have the same ideas about what is best. You will never find a candidate that agrees with you 100% - if you think you have, then it's quite likely you have been fooled. Much better to go with the candidate with whom you agree most, knowing their "flaws".

So, although a Third Party may sound good in principle, it's simply not viable in the Real World. At least, such is My Humble Opinion.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
7. well call me selfish then because at the end of the day I want to know I did everything I could to
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:02 PM
Jun 2013

fight for my children's future, my children's education. Right now both parties suck at education. They are both throwing my children's education and future down the toilet. So, yes in order to feel like I have done everything I could for their future I will vote my conscience. If you feel you are doing everything you can by voting democrat then I would not begrudge you that. But for me, just voting democrat just for the sake of voting democrat is no longer enough.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
13. The problem with your point is this:
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:47 PM
Jun 2013

I'm not making a positive political difference either way. If I vote my conscience, I'll rarely vote for a winning candidate, and can be easily ignored after the election. If I hold my nose and belly and vote for the lesser evil, I'm still not making a difference. That candidate doesn't work for what I want, and doesn't move the nation the direction I want to go. As a matter of fact, we continue the deadly drift to the right.

Voting for someone who is going to work against me, because they are not ___________, is like hitting my toe with a hammer. Repeatedly. At first it just hurts. Then I'm limping. Eventually I can't walk at all.

Voting for the lesser evil enables negative change, and that's the only change I'm going to be able to make with my vote.

At least voting my conscience, while not changing anything, doesn't make me responsible for enabling negative change.



Cleita

(75,480 posts)
8. Instant runoff voting or something similar could help.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:05 PM
Jun 2013

I believe it's working in Australia that also has a two party system. Sometimes a third party can win because of the way the votes are divided when people choose three candidates in order of preference.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
10. I will never vote for the lesser of two evils again.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:19 PM
Jun 2013

I will vote my conscience, I will vote my principles. I will not apologize for doing so, nor will I accept the guilt trip partisan hacks will most assuredly try to lay upon me. If the Democratic Party wants me to vote for their candidates, it's up to them to make sure those candidates will represent me and my values. It is not open to debate or compromise.

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