The difference between a Freeper and an Obama Apologist cheerleading Wiretap programs

[FreakinDJ]

What makes it right when “Our Guy” does it.

We’ve known these programs existed for at least a decade even thou Intelligence organizations insisted they only monitored calls originating “Outside US Borders” and we even had discussions here on DU asking why are Bush, Cheney not in jail for their illegal activities.

Now here we are content with abolishing of the 4th Amendment rights and you know dam good and well the minute Wall St’s Wealthy Elite feel the slightest bit uncomfortable with all these “Citizens” walking around with firearms they will have their “Puppet in Office” abolish are 2nd Amendment Rights

I could go on for pages with all the reasons why our lapse of ethical standards is a fatal error.

Rather I’ll leave you with this. In the not so distant past – June 6th 1944, 100s of 1000s of Americans were prepared and willing to freely accepted their fate, knowing full well casualty estimates as high as 20% were expected. They did this to defend the American way of life and the Freedoms it represented. So sad here we are willing to trade in the sacrifice they made for the right to buy some cheap Bling made in China down at the mall

[xchrom]

1. du rec.

[cali]

2. I think the comparison of freepers to DUers who support the President

is a bit overboard.

I disagree with them and the hyperpartisan stuff drives me nuts, but I don't think the mentality is the same. They're choosing to trust someone that they believe will do the right thing. I think they're incredibly wrong.

I also don't think that the Wall Street Elite stand a chance in hell of ever abolishing 2nd Amendment rights. Call it a bridge too far or whatever.

and romanticizing the past always strikes me as silly. You can almost always sell a war to the American people.

[FreakinDJ]

4. "choosing to trust someone that they believe will do the right thing"

Obama - Constitutional Law......

Seems I remember this conversation from his run up to election and the high hopes of folks here on DU that he would "Undo the Massive Shredding of the Constitution" we suffered under the Bush/Cheney administration.

He "Undid it alright - he made it legal"

Weak rebuttal by the way

[cali]

6. what rebuttal, dear?

can you try reading with a scrap of comprehension?

[OrwellwasRight]

11. They're choosing to trust someone that they believe will do the right thing.

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2013, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Isn't that how Freepers felt about Bush? I find that a really, extremely creepy thing to say.

Should one man ever be above our scrutiny? Regardless of party?

I agree about the Second Amendment -- but for a different reason. Wall Street has NO Interest in abolishing the Second Amendment. It's a money maker: sales of guns, bullets, gun cleaning kits, gun cases, gun magazines, medical care for those shot by guns, funerals for those killed by guns, security systems for those afraid of guns, and I could go on. It is not the 1% who will ever try to rid the world of guns even if certain members of their class (like Bloomberg) might try.

[cali]

32. freepers hated bush. they thought he was a liberal. really.

Look, here's what I'm actually saying: Calling other DUers Freepers or Racists or tea partiers or whatthefuckever is just stupid nasty name calling. And I'm not immune to the temptation, but it's still stupid nasty namecalling.

Clear enough?

[OrwellwasRight]

34. I agree with that.

100% Could not agree more with "what you're actually saying"!!

But I disagree with you about Freepers. I grew up in Freeper-ville USA. And those people did not hate Bush for being too liberal. They LOVED the guy and thought I was nutso for voting for Kerry and being a Democrat. Just a different experience I guess.

My point is it never acceptable to put ANYONE in charge (Democrat or Republican) and just trust that what he or she does will be all right. That is a recipe for autocracy, not democracy. Jus' sayin'.

[Coyotl]

3. "wiretap" programs. That is so 20th century!!

Surely you refer to the "omni-surveillance state" ??

[Warren Stupidity]

5. re d-day: tens of thousands, not hundreds.

we had around 75,000 men in the invasion force. not that it matters. we didn't trade our freedom for cheap chinese manufactured goods. It isn't even clear what we've traded our freedom for. the connection between neoliberal economic policies and the world domination dreams of the neocons is there, but it is mostly an alliance of convenience. in my opinion the evolution of the security state has a life of its own, independent of, but frequently feeding on, the various follies and foibles of specific administrations.

[FreakinDJ]

7. What strikes me is the were told the estimates

Not "You do this and were all coming back alive" tripe they peddle now.

[Narkos]

8. Differrence is, their guy attempted to do without ANY oversight n/t

[FreakinDJ]

15. Oversight like the kind that allows contractors to freely listen in without warrent

Say it ain't so

[Life Long Dem]

18. It ain't so.

[DevonRex]

19. You built your vile name-calling of DUers on that lie. It would be funny if it weren't sickening.

Snowden LIED about that. Do some research.

[FreakinDJ]

22. You go right on believing that

Just like we believed Obama would never sell us out for Wall St.

[DevonRex]

35. That's the problem right there. I found out the facts. You "believe" a sniveling

little shit traitor who's running around the globe selling America out to China and Russia. And god only knows who else. As soon as his cash runs low he'll try to do a deal with some sheikh and wind up dead. If Putin doesn't take care of him first.

I was a Russian linguist in MI. SIGINT, to be exact. Protecting America during the Cold War. I don't like traitors, especially ones who sell out to KGB Putin. That man could and would slit your throat without a second thought.

[FreakinDJ]

36. So that makes you part of the Military Industrial Complex peddling fear for lucrative contracts

Why am I not surprised you would react that way

You may wish to trade away your Constitutionally Guaranteed Right to Privacy for a secure job but You have no right to bargain away MY RIGHTS

[Katashi_itto]

25. Here's what Edward Snowden told the world:

“We hack network backbones — like huge Internet routers, basically — that gives us access to the communications of hundreds of thousands of computers without having to hack every single one.”
Actually, it's hundreds of millions of computers, and billions of phone calls, that are routed through the NSA's data collection traps -- from every corner of the world -- every minute of the day. Even though most of them are not communicating to anyone in the US, the Internet's current architecture allows the NSA to capture them all. Potentially, that means every single soul on earth who uses electronic communication is being tracked.
Other nations understood this immediately. They are well aware that their citizens have been caught in the illegal NSA dragnet. This is a completely unacceptable act by the US -- just as it would be if the world's Internet backbone was located in Russia and Moscow was mining the rich personal data of every American citizen.



The United States has inadvertently declared itself to be a rogue, predatory Police State. When the story broke, officials in European capitals demanded immediate answers from their US counterparts and denounced the practice of secretly gathering digital information on Europeans as unacceptable, illegal and a serious violation of basic human rights.

There were heated and outraged discussions at the G-8 summit in Ireland. Eric Holder was flown to Brussels for questioning by the European Union. When Holder left, they were even more outraged. The Germans openly liken the United States actions to the actions of the Cold War-era Stasi.

[FreakinDJ]

31. As told to me by an illegal hacker

"Once we crack the network we own them 100%"

[Pisces]

9. Ha, what a deluded post. No one is taking up arms against the US government. Militia types love to

talk about an insurrection, but it is a joke. Go live in the back country of Idaho or Wyoming and be done with it. Your old
way of lie is gone. Privacy is an illusion. You never had it, you only thought you did.

You forgot the other category which is pragmatist. Some of us haven't been living in the real world, not living a nice
fairy tale where America is number 1 at everything and where we are the paragons of virtue.

Good luck with your flawed reasoning which starts with something we never were and never will be.

[gcomeau]

10. For fuck's sake

"and we even had discussions here on DU asking why are Bush, Cheney not in jail for their illegal activities.

We had those discussions because they were conducting ILLEGAL WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING.

Which is not what we're talking about here. Would people get that through their skulls?

[FreakinDJ]

16. And the difference between a Freeper is ........

has any of this been challenged in court yet

[Katashi_itto]

26. 3 lawsuits and counting.

[UTUSN]

12. any other namecalling suggestions for dems who attack dems more than attacking wingnuts?!1 nt

[Marr]

13. I think there's a difference in the attitudes of the people who

...defended this activity under Bush and those who do it under Obama. The Bush fans seemed to be coming from a place of sheer cowardice. They wanted their daddy to protect them from the big bad world.

Obama fans seem like they're motivated by an overblown sense of loyalty to a political celebrity.

But your point is taken. I'm personally more concerned about what this means for 1st Amendment rights rather than 2nd, but there you go.

[FreakinDJ]

24. It has a VERY chilling effect on 1st amendment rights

not to mention a plethora of possible abuses

[forestpath]

27. "Obama fans seem like they're motivated by an overblown sense of loyalty to a political celebrity. "

I've often thought something similar.

[JoeyT]

14. I don't think the "apologists" are anything like the freepers.

Besides the obvious difference of being able to use proper punctuation, grammar, and spelling, I mean.

To me it comes down to a question of motive. The freepers weren't defending the programs because they thought it was being done by someone they trusted, as many or most who are defending the program here are. The freepers were defending the programs for the same reason they want to outlaw abortion, support any war that kills non-whites or Muslims, and want to do away with aid for the poor: They primarily only support programs they think will hurt someone they hate. They thought spying and anti-terrorism laws would be used against Muslins and librals, and they were largely correct. The thought that a right winger or a white person might be spied upon while going about his business pisses them right off.

I think the people defending the programs here are wrong, but being wrong isn't the same as being a hateful little turd like the freepers are. Even when freepers somehow miraculously stumble on the right answer they're still assholes for how they got there. To use the current topic as an example: The freepers have the right answer (Weaken anti-terrorism laws, get rid of spying, etc) for entirely the wrong reason (Because they don't want to be spied on by a black Athiest Muslin libral Communist Facist Soshalist). They don't object to the spying, they object to who's doing the spying and who's being spied on. So they're still assholes.

[Jamaal510]

17. WTF? Obama apologist?

I think OP is on the wrong site. It's one thing to be an "Obama apologist", but it's another thing for people to misdirect blame at Obama for a fucking program that has been in effect since 2006 and has been voted on repeatedly in Congress. Congress has jurisdiction over changing laws.

[treestar]

21. Yes or to assume it to be wrong to support a Democratic President here

The OP just assumes that we all agree on it.

[Buzz Clik]

28. +1!

I'm no Freeper, and no fan of the "wiretapping" that Bush initiated with the full, required vetting of the key Congressional committees.

But, the OP ... holy crapoli.

I honest-to-god thought it was against DU policy to say such shit.

[treestar]

20. I was curious and went over there

The freepers sound the same as the chickens with their heads cut off here. Freepers are hypocrites, they were fine with it, but with Obama as President, they should just like the Snowden Apologists here.

[dionysus]

23. if you're gonna be so quaint as to bust out the tired old "apologist" shite, i guess that makes you

a treason apologist then.

and probably not a good idea to bring WW2 into it, because treason apologists would be pretty lonely back then and snowden would have been hung, to mass applause.

[Buzz Clik]

29. Betcha a quarter I could find this quote from the OP in Freeperville:

So sad here we are willing to trade in the sacrifice they made for the right to buy some cheap Bling made in China down at the mall

I come pretty damned close to being an Obama apologist, and I'd never said that crap.

[FreakinDJ]

33. Betcha a quarter you can't

not unless you post it there

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Civility, DU style

Tra la la...