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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:02 AM Jun 2013

There's a New Fascism on the Rise, and the NSA Leaks Show Us What It Looks Like

http://www.alternet.org/media/understanding-latest-leaks-understanding-rise-new-fascism

In his book, Propaganda, published in 1928, Edward Bernays wrote: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country."

The American nephew of Sigmund Freud, Bernays invented the term "public relations" as a euphemism for state propaganda. He warned that an enduring threat to the invisible government was the truth-teller and an enlightened public.

In 1971, whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg leaked US government files known as The Pentagon Papers, revealing that the invasion of Vietnam was based on systematic lying. Four years later, Frank Church conducted sensational hearings in the US Senate: one of the last flickers of American democracy. These laid bare the full extent of the invisible government: the domestic spying and subversion and warmongering by intelligence and "security" agencies and the backing they received from big business and the media, both conservative and liberal.

Speaking about the National Security Agency (NSA), Senator Church said: "I know that the capacity that there is to make tyranny in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law … so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return."
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There's a New Fascism on the Rise, and the NSA Leaks Show Us What It Looks Like (Original Post) xchrom Jun 2013 OP
. Berlum Jun 2013 #1
K&R newfie11 Jun 2013 #2
In his next Senate election following the Church Committee, Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #3
By less than a percentage point, sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #15
The Election of 1980 was an unmitigated disaster Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #30
Symms was a hideous embarrassment for Idaho IDemo Jun 2013 #16
Wow. I hadn't known about Chenoweth and Fischer, Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #31
The Oligarchs Own The Politicians - Which Control The Levers Of Power - Which Control Us cantbeserious Jun 2013 #4
In an nutshell...... socialist_n_TN Jun 2013 #11
Simplicity Keeps Things Clear In Understanding Who The Antagonists Of Main Street Truly Are cantbeserious Jun 2013 #14
"New"? I love how people think this is a new thing NightWatcher Jun 2013 #5
What do the NSA leaks show that indicate fascism? randome Jun 2013 #6
Perfect. The fact that you sincerely ask this question validates the OP's premise. nt Zorra Jun 2013 #9
Mussolin is quoted as having said that sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #18
Privatization of spying/intel and the marriage of large corporations with the NSA morningfog Jun 2013 #19
The OP is about the NSA leaks so I repeat my question. randome Jun 2013 #21
I repeat, read the article. It will help your confusion. morningfog Jun 2013 #22
I going to help you by giving you the key quote as a starting point: morningfog Jun 2013 #23
Here's A List You Can Choose From... WillyT Jun 2013 #29
thanks for that marions ghost Jun 2013 #32
if this is an honest question, i recommend you take some time to research and think nashville_brook Jun 2013 #24
If you honestly want to discuss this issue, stop injecting Snowden. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #33
Fascism never went away, it merely got a makeover. Arctic Dave Jun 2013 #7
it became WAY more subtle, sophisticated, invisible, pragmatic and effective markiv Jun 2013 #36
I'm starting to get a Tea Partier vibe from people around here. WatermelonRat Jun 2013 #8
well it's your problem G_j Jun 2013 #10
After 8 fucking miserable years of blatant fascism under Bush/Cheney, & the PNAC, you can spew that? Zorra Jun 2013 #12
Sounds like you might need to be a little bit better informed then... socialist_n_TN Jun 2013 #13
True Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #20
Really, you're just starting to get a vibe after 3 posts? RetroLounge Jun 2013 #17
in what sense could "Insider Threat Program" not be seen as malevolent? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #25
Welcome to DU treestar Jun 2013 #28
Do you have a clue as to what fascism actually is? Clue, it doesnt have to involve Hitler. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #34
to read later snagglepuss Jun 2013 #26
K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #27
kick temmer Jun 2013 #35

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
3. In his next Senate election following the Church Committee,
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:39 AM
Jun 2013

Church was narrowly defeated by Steve Symms. His defeat was a loss for the entire country.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
15. By less than a percentage point,
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:00 AM
Jun 2013

and most likely facilitated by NCPAC (a rouges gallery of neo-fascist rat bastards) and their Any Body But Church (ABC) committee that were largely responsible for the election of Ronald Reagan and bankrolling Church's opponent. Having the corporate media announce Reagan as the winner in Idaho long before the polls closed was probably the final blow to his reelection bid. The unseating of a senior senator sent a strong message to other progressive politicians to ignore the man behind the curtain. It's been like that ever since.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
30. The Election of 1980 was an unmitigated disaster
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:42 PM
Jun 2013

Between the beating that progressives took at the polls, and the so-called "boll weevil Democrats" (now called "blue dogs&quot who more often sided with Reagan than not, the progressive days of the '60s and '70s were given a swift boot in the butt.

And as you noted, "the unseating of a senior senator (several, actually) sent a strong message to other progressive politicians to ignore the man behind the curtain. It's been like that ever since."

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
16. Symms was a hideous embarrassment for Idaho
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:41 AM
Jun 2013

His election marked the beginning of the downslide into repub insanity and inanity in this state (see: Helen "black HEE-licopters" Chenoweth, Bryan Fischer (yeah, THAT Bryan Fischer).

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
31. Wow. I hadn't known about Chenoweth and Fischer,
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:58 PM
Jun 2013

but after reading up on them, I've got to agree that they fit the bill for "insanity and inanity".

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
5. "New"? I love how people think this is a new thing
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:17 AM
Jun 2013

I worked for one of the contractors in this story in the '90s. The Patriot Act in 01 only codified what had been going on for years. Total Information Awareness was a wet dream for DARPA a long time ago. Key words Carnivore and Eschelon and others that I can't mention have been practiced for years. This is nothing new.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
6. What do the NSA leaks show that indicate fascism?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jun 2013

And I don't mean what Snowden says. Talk is cheap.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
18. Mussolin is quoted as having said that
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:48 AM
Jun 2013

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power," although it was more likely this a quote from Giovanni Gentile, Mussolini's ghost writer.

Henry Wallce (Vice President during most of the FDR years) wrote an essay during WWII trying to define or explain American fascism. It is attached.

http://archive.truthout.org/article/henry-a-wallace-the-danger-american-fascism

My own opinion is that American fascism is pretty much what Mussolini is credited with saying, while Wallace put it in the context of American capitalism.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
19. Privatization of spying/intel and the marriage of large corporations with the NSA
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:48 AM
Jun 2013

to gather data. Did you read the article? Do you understand what fascism is? When the corporate world and the government act as one body, that is fascism.

There is more, but I hope that helps with your confusion. Go back and read the article as treatment of your knee-jerk reaction.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. The OP is about the NSA leaks so I repeat my question.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:01 PM
Jun 2013

What do the leaks have to do with fascism?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
23. I going to help you by giving you the key quote as a starting point:
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:07 PM
Jun 2013

"Snowden’s revelation that Washington has used Google, Facebook, Apple and other giants of consumer technology to spy on almost everyone, is further evidence of modern form of fascism – that is the "abyss". Having nurtured old-fashioned fascists around the world – from Latin America to Africa and Indonesia – the genie has risen at home. Understanding this is as important as understanding the criminal abuse of technology."

Click links, it helps prevent embarrassment.

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
24. if this is an honest question, i recommend you take some time to research and think
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 01:02 PM
Jun 2013

about it. it is indeed a very large question. one that many here and across the country are very worried about.

aaaaand...it's only partisan if you make it so. or if the president makes it so. it's not carved in stone that the White House has to defend and deploy these programs.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
7. Fascism never went away, it merely got a makeover.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:33 AM
Jun 2013

Authoritarianism is like a drug for some, they can never get enough.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
36. it became WAY more subtle, sophisticated, invisible, pragmatic and effective
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:33 PM
Jun 2013

it doesnt put a jack boot on every street, it puts a button pusher on every button that needs pushing

and is invisible everywhere else

WatermelonRat

(340 posts)
8. I'm starting to get a Tea Partier vibe from people around here.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:38 AM
Jun 2013

It's one thing to say that the government is overreaching and establishing systems that can be abused. It's another to claim that it is actively malevolent and plotting a fascist transformation of the country. I can understand someone opposing the surveillance measures on principle, but claiming that they constitute tyranny (or prove a secret plan to impose tyranny) is simply absurd. I'm reminded of the NRA nuts who think that background checks are the first step to a fascist dystopia.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
12. After 8 fucking miserable years of blatant fascism under Bush/Cheney, & the PNAC, you can spew that?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:50 AM
Jun 2013

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
13. Sounds like you might need to be a little bit better informed then...
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:52 AM
Jun 2013

WAY too much coordinated actions by the capitalists, their toadies in the political class and the media, and the courts for this to be coincidental.

Remember, Mussolini (THE first fascist to actually rise to power) described fascism as government and corporations as one entity. THAT'S what all of this amounts to.

RetroLounge

(37,250 posts)
17. Really, you're just starting to get a vibe after 3 posts?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:44 AM
Jun 2013

Maybe you should try educating yourself first.

RL

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
25. in what sense could "Insider Threat Program" not be seen as malevolent?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 01:05 PM
Jun 2013

I'll let Charlie Pierce take it from here:



You want "Nixonian"? This, right here, this is Nixonian, if Nixon had grown up in East Germany. You've got the entire federal bureaucracy looking for signs of "high-risk persons or behaviors" the way Nixon sent Fred Malek out to count the Jews. You've got created within the entire federal bureaucracy a culture of spies and informers, which will inevitably breed fear and deceit and countless acts of interoffice treachery. (Don't like your boss at the Bureau Of Land Management? Hmm, he looks like a high-risk person. Tell someone.) And this is the clincher.

Hammer this fact home . . . leaking is tantamount to aiding the enemies of the United States," says a June 1, 2012, Defense Department strategy for the program that was obtained by McClatchy.




http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Big_Brother_Takes_A_Government_Job

treestar

(82,383 posts)
28. Welcome to DU
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:12 PM
Jun 2013


You sound measured and reasonable. You may find that to be a difficult position to take around DU.
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