If you've criticized Bush and Clinton more than Obama

[whatchamacallit]

What kind of racist does that make you?

Having failed to accept that people might have a valid reason to be upset over the NSA scandal, the usual suspects are trotting out the disgusting old race chestnut.

[richmwill]

1. Apparently I'm a "Self-hating white"...

(Puts head into hands and cries)

[Cali_Democrat]

2. How many different kinds of racists are there?

Can you list them out for us?

[Earth_First]

3. One dollar, Bob! nt

[downbythelake]

4. if you hate white people

it isnt racist

[Cali_Democrat]

5. says who?

[magellan]

6. Hate to tell you

...but if you hate or think any group of people is beneath you just because of the color of their skin, you're a racist.

Why can't we just all get along?....

[sibelian]

8. Well, I'm assuming that's satirical.

It is satirical, isn't it?

[downbythelake]

9. yes :)

[JoePhilly]

7. Sounds like the guy posting #4 is trying to help you out.

Not that he is succeeding.

For the record, I find that most of those with their hair on fire regarding the NSA scandal are the same folks who always have their hair on fire.

I'm of the opinion that it has little to do with Obama or his race, and more to do with the flammability of their hair.

[RobertEarl]

11. Look how wrong you can be

It is about our constitutional rights. Obama just happens to be waving it in our faces, because, y'know, he is the president. The buck stops with him.

[JoePhilly]

18. Which Constituional right has been violated.

And please, don't do what the gun nuts do and scream "2nd Amendment" ... please be specific ... what action has been taken, and how does it violate the Constitution.

[RobertEarl]

33. I'm sorry Joe

Last edited Wed Jun 19, 2013, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I have to go flush the toilet so I won't be able to respond to your attack. But consider this as similar to what I have to go do.

[JoePhilly]

37. So asking you to be specific is an attack?

Of course ... most of us flush right after we go to the toilet.

Apparently, you leave it there for others to find. Like your earlier post.

But I understand why you now need to go back and flush.

Your post was crap, and you realize that lacking the ability to provide specific details, you need to make it go away now.

[RobertEarl]

39. Haha

No, Actually I was relating that answering your question was less important than flushing a toilet.

But yeah, if it is yellow, I let it mellow. Saves water.

[whatchamacallit]

12. While I don't agree

that assessment is more acceptable than the notion that people who contributed time, money, and their votes to elect BO, criticize his policies because they're bigots. I mean

[JoePhilly]

31. Given that any one of us can claim that we contributed ... time, money, effort ...

... what remains is the manner in which we voice our criticism.

Anyone can claim that they voted for President Obama, much like many embarrassed Republicans now claim that they are actually Libertarians who did not vote for Bush.

I'm a democrat, and I know democrats who are racists.

As a simple example, I know guys who, upon learning that a black person committed a crime, ascribe that behavior to most blacks.

And yet, if a white guy we grew up with performs the exact same crime, that act only reflects on that individual, and not on other white guys (like us, his school age friends).

I've encountered right wingers who think that so long as they don't say N****R, they aren't racists.

Consider this ... the FISA courts were proposed by Ted Kennedy. And the legislation that created them was signed into law by Jimmy Carter. Those secret courts have existed for 33 years. Under 5 Presidents.

And suddenly, THIS President is misusing that court. Needs to show his birth certificate. Went to the wrong church. Is called a liar during a State of the Union address. Questioned about the cost of his trips. Is called illegitimate.

Is all of the criticism race based, certainly not. But pretending that much of it is not is ridiculous. And you do not have to be black to see it.

[whatchamacallit]

34. They may exist

but that doesn't make broad-brushing everyone else ok. That's more of a dodge than anything else.

[JoePhilly]

38. I've yet to see this broad brush you speak of.

I do see some raise the issue of the extent of this phenomenon, but I don't see anyone claiming that all criticism is of that nature.

I do see Tea Party folks making the claim that all criticism is painted as racist ... but again, they do that in the same way that the GOP tries to project all issues back on their opponents. They try to make their weakness become the weakness of their opponent.

[Major Hogwash]

40. Well, I'm paid by the post, don'tcha know?

Why, supporting President Obama is a full-time job for me these days.

Mue-ha-ha-ha!!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

45. And the people trying desperately to make this about anything other than the issue

are the same crew that has been beating the same pathetic excuses and rationalizations for years here.

[JoePhilly]

48. Which explains why every time I try to engage one of the outraged

on the specific details of this NSA thing ... they scream "sycophant" and disappear.

Personally, I find much of the hair on fire stuff to be an attempt to avoid discussion "the issue".

You want to discuss the real issues ... I'm all in.

I'll start.

The meta data about phone calls does not belong to you or me. It belongs to the teleco and they collect that data to run their business. They use it for billing. They use it to plan upgrades to their infrastructure and to repair outages. They have a right to that data. Which is probably why they have at times CHARGED you and me if we want a detailed list of who we called and for how long. They are sharing their data with us.

The CONTENT of the call belongs to you and I. The government can not access that content without a warrant that is specific to you or I, respectively.

Now ... you can attempt to discuss this aspect of "the issue" or claim (as others are doing) that no matter what the government says, its a lie. Which kind of avoids discussion the issue.

So you know ... I might not be able to respond tonight (I have kids that I need to be put to bed), but if not, I will respond tomorrow.

[Egalitarian Thug]

53. You forget that some of us read what you write. You don't try to engage, you dissemble

and obfuscate, and when someone bothers to compose a substantive reply, you change the topic or run away.

I've had all I can stomach today.
Buh-by

[JoePhilly]

62. I posted an actual point of debate. And you ignored it.

Not a surprise.

[treestar]

55. Yeah I think you are onto it there!

These people had already been betrayed by Obama 600 times previously. They seem to get madder and madder at his supporters with each new trumped up outrage.

[JaneyVee]

10. Huh? What the hell is going on around here???

[RobertEarl]

13. The last grasp to protect Obama

Obama is between a rock and a hard place and all the Obama diehard supporters see that Obama has got himself in trouble. They want us to STFU and go away. They can't do that with facts so they pull out the race card.

[Skip Intro]

25. That pretty much sums it up.

Except that it isn't Obama's fate I'm concerned with, it's the fate of our nation, of our rights and freedoms, of watching a government that is supposed to be of, by and for the people being turned into something that acts against the people, tossing aside the Constitution our leaders were sworn to uphold.

[JoePhilly]

51. Yup ... Obama is done for ... in just 1310 days!

[RobertEarl]

52. He's got a lot of work to do

He needs to forget making friends with the 1% and make friends with the 99%. He can start by de-funding most of the NSA. That will be his legacy. "Obama: "The president that ended the attack on constitutional right to not have the government spying on everyone.""

Before you go off again, JP, tell us: what is the main reason the constitution was written? To protect the government from the people, or protect people from the government?

[JoePhilly]

56. Its neither.

The Constitution was written to create a government of WE THE PEOPLE. Its powers were separated between 3 CO-EQUAL branches.

Those branches being the Judicial, Legislative, and Executive.

In the current situation, the Legislative branch, in a bill offered by Ted Kennedy, proposed a special court (Judiciary, FISA) to handle warrants for which added secrecy was needed (such a thing did not exist prior). That legislation was signed into law by then President (Executive branch) Jimmy Carter. All three branches engaged.

See ... the US government is WE THE PEOPLE. With divided powers. Our government is not some "separate thing".

I'm not surprised when Tea Party members get confused by this.

But I am surprised when Democrats appear to be confused by what the founders actually created.

[RobertEarl]

59. You lack an understanding

Explains where you are coming from.

The constitution limits what the government can do. It protects the people from the government. It even says the powers not given there in the constitution are reserved to the people.

I guess you have really never even read it. Go read it.

What the 4th says is that the government shall not fucking pry into the people's lives without just cause and then it may, but only after a warrant.

Your feeling that it is all one in the same is belied by just that one article of separation telling the government what it can't do.

There is nothing in the document telling the people what they can not do.

Like I said, go read it. The anti-constitutionalists just love ignorant people. Don't be one any longer. Go read it.

[Catherina]

14. I criticized all 3, consistently, over the same issues. Put me down as a self-hating Black woman n/t

[whatchamacallit]

15. !

[Catherina]

19. It's truly funny. Unless people reveal their race, there's no way of knowing who's what

so where these tired, ugly accusations come from is beyond me.

I'm still waiting for the paranoid explanation of how all the White people who voted for Obama turned into racists overnight because these accusations started during the Primaries and never stopped.

I wish it would stop because it's a cheap and disgusting ploy that only embarrasses the same little group that's been throwing out that accusation since the Primaries.

I really encourage people not to even engage people who sink to that because the most they have to offer is their own paranoia and a sack of little tricks.

Holy shit. The next thing you know it's going to be proof of racism if you don't want to be spied on. Wait, that's where we are right now.

my friend

[whatchamacallit]

24. So right on Catherina!

[Marrah_G]

22. <3

[Catherina]

28. Is there a conspiracy theory explanation for how so many racist people voted for Obama?

Was it temporary amnesia? Accidental koolaid? What?

Let me know if you ever learn the answer to that mystery of the universe.




Btw. Occupy forum on Snowden is very interesting! http://www.ustream.tv/stopmotionsolo?utm_campaign=t.co

[Bobbie Jo]

16. What?

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

This is called taking the ball and running with it clear out of the stadium.

[whatchamacallit]

17. Really?

How so?

[Bobbie Jo]

20. What difference does it make?

Clearly, you're not remotely interested in an honest answer to your "how so." To do so would be a complete waste of time and energy.

Suffice it to say....you're exaggerating and fixated on a point where you can get the biggest bang for your buck, as it were.

Carry on.

[whatchamacallit]

26. If an answer exists I'd love to hear it

You're brushing this off because you don't have one.

[Bobbie Jo]

30. Yeah

You got me. Run with it.

[whatchamacallit]

32. You showed up with nothin

and you're leaving the same way. Congrats. Bye bye.

[Bobbie Jo]

35. No

Just leaving this asinine thread, I said what I wanted to say.

That you don't "get it" is your problem, and typically predictable.

See....now we're done.

[whatchamacallit]

36. There was nothing to get

adieu.

[Marrah_G]

21. It's easiest to just put those people on ignore

It makes DU not suck.

[Catherina]

29. +1,000,000 n/t

[Major Hogwash]

23. Benghazi!

The new scandal is the old scandal rewrapped.

Lessee, there was Benghazi, then there was the investigation of the leak by the Faux Snooze reporter, and then there was the IRS thingy.

And then there was that gal shouting in the face of the First Lady.

However, the President gave an interview to Charlie Rose and addressed the NSA program.
And the House had a hearing yesterday with the people involved with the NSA program.

But, it's not racism.

Yeah, gotcha'.

Yeah, sure.

Sure, sure.

[whatchamacallit]

27. DUers weren't fixating on Benghazi and the IRS flap

but they're being accused of racism over the NSA thing. Maybe you can explain how it fits.

[JoePhilly]

41. Duers are also being accued of being Nazis and Stalinists.

Right here on DU.

[bigwillq]

49. Does this really bother you?

Really? I think a lot of folks here need to find other things to do with their lives.

[JoePhilly]

50. Since you ask ...

No, it does not bother me in any meaningful way.

As an Experimental Psychologist, I find it, and much of what goes on here on DU, fascinating.

Its almost a study in group dynamics.

And so for me, its a fun diversion.

Plus, when you step outside the dysfunction of General Discussion, DU has some very interesting content and often provides fast paths to other real content outside DU.

[bigwillq]

61. Good answers!

I use DU for entertainment purposes!
Yes, there's some useful information here, but I stick around more for the good laughs I get out of this place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Nah, not nazi, or Stalinists

But there are echoes....of course it's more little Frankesteins coming home as well.

But to be honest, it's more Imperial Rome, rotten to the core.

[Egalitarian Thug]

42. It's all they've got. The desperation is palpable.

The only hope they have lies in American's utter lack of memory and the republicans nominating another bumper crop of raving lunatics. You can see the flop sweat pouring off their heads.

[jazzimov]

44. I don't think so. nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

47. Care to make any point? n/t

[jazzimov]

43. And, there we go.

Let's not forget that Obama is half-white, and that Clinton was the first "Black President".

[DirkGently]

46. The "only racists could possibly disagree with us" theme is

as despicable (not to mention ineffectual) as it gets.

Good for identifying those willing to be utterly dishonest in their spinning though.

[treestar]

54. There's no valid reason to be as bitterly upset as some people seem to be

And they could be upset at more than just Obama for it - previous Congresses, Presidents, and the current ones. People to the left should still be more upset at Bush than they ever are at Obama for anything. The bitter vitriol to anyone who on DU supports Obama is way OTT.

[whatchamacallit]

57. Most people on the left ARE pissed at BushCo and congresses past and present

but it's easier to claim it's about Obama's skin if you pretend that's not the case.

[treestar]

58. They sure don't mention it much

And the NSA thing is a legal matter, and will work its way through the courts. There's no reason to have this bitter hate filled vitriol toward Obama for it.

The way people jumped on supporting this latest leak without even considering if its best for our country and then doubled down when the leaker went to China - just shameful. How can a Democrat do such a thing while a Democrat is President? It's a gift to right wingers.

[whatchamacallit]

60. Fuck the letter after the name

Some of us don't base our principles and interests on party. Frankly, having partisan tools tell us what we should and shouldn't care about is getting really old.

[sibelian]

63. It's true that he's subjected to some very strong criticism here

- maybe in the cases of some issues the criticism is stronger than it needs to be, but it's very silly to accuse those posting such here of racism when its much more likely to be a combination of the thwarting of hyperinflated and emotionally super-charged expectations following the reign of the Mad King (expecations that probably no politician could ever really have met) and the fact tha Obama is genuinely a centrist and not the radical force for change he managed to (possibly inadvertantly) convince everybody he was.

Nobody's going to get anywhere accusing anyone on the left of racism, treestar. People on the left are pretty much universally non-racist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. You know who else used the "it's a legal question" canard too

Nah, better not upset you with it...but I am thinking of several right at the momemt.