Have We Reached Acceptance Yet?

[Junkdrawer]

You will be monitored.

You will be told the majority of your fellow citizens approve of the compromises.

The government will "officially" deny it, all the while building bigger servers.

Weak ass attempts to rein it in will be defeated.

And, every once in a while, you will be reminded: You are monitored.



Here's your real choice: How will you react to being monitored?

If a sufficiently large number say: "They can't monitor us all!" then it will fail.

If everyone but a brave few clam up, it will succeed.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. I don't know whether to laugh at your post, or cry

in either case, very thoughtful post.

[magellan]

2. Fuck no.

And that was my reaction before I read the contents of your post.

TT FTW.

[Melinda]

3. Funny, in another thread, I just asked kpete if she ever felt like submitting

It's all a bit overwhelming right now.

[Egalitarian Thug]

4. Once some celebrity does something really outrageous, we'll forget all about this.

I just wish Snowden had waited about 10 months...

[HappyMe]

5. So what exactly are people here doing about it?

Other than posting.

[allin99]

11. I post information on facebook to try to decimate...

information as it is revealed... (talk to people at the dog park, whereever, esp b/c most people i know are of liberal persuasion, but they'd rather not think about it, of course *eyeroll*

2...there is a bill being written that will hopefully gain support and i'll be watching it to post the information about it everyone so that we can call our congressmen.
http://www.markudall.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=3507
(although it remains to be seen whether this bill is just lip service or not).

3...i donated to the aclu as soon as they announced their suit (everyone against this should donate, very easy, even just $10 to show support)


that's all i can think to do at the moment, but one thing i won't do is justify this Bush era bullshit.

i suppose i could write to my current congress person before bill or similar ones arise, being in ny you know they'er all for as much surveillance as possible. bleh.

[HappyMe]

19. Where was all the outrage in the shrub years, when this crap started?

I'm lucky in that political crap doesn't get posted on FB. I also don't bother people with my politics. I figure that's fair, don't get in my face, I won't get in yours.

[allin99]

23. my fb is only for politics. i only got on...

facebook to follow campaigns and campaign info, with people who work on campaigns, etc, not for telling people about my life, that i do in person. : ).

So any non-political friends, at least they get to read information, kind of important.

[HappyMe]

26. I have family in other states.

I like having it as a way to catch up. I unfriended a 2nd cousin because she clogged the works up with political stuff - yeah, she's a Dem. It doesn't tend to be the stupid "I had lunch!" posts, we aren't like that.

[allin99]

30. i hear you, it's been great for that....

one sister i don't really talk to, but we're on each others friend list, very helpful : ).

Also great for keeping in touch with people you want to hang onto, but don't have time or the relationship to meet up with frequently.

but everyone pretty much knows i use my fb for politics, so if they don't like it, they have to unfriend or hide. lol. i'd say i have 350 friends, 100+ i've know personally from working on campaigns/etc, then the rest i know from those guys and just online, then the friends i already had before i joined fb i just accept their friend, they know my fb is for politics. Sometimes i post pics of my dog. .

and it'll be super helpful if i ever get married so everyone can know at once.

[HappyMe]

34. I have 24 friends.

Just close family and a couple of people from high school. I have no desire to have to read what 350 people have to say on FB. DU is enough politics for me.

[allin99]

43. yeah, essentially...

my fb is the same as your du, i mean the same function, a board for politics, not the same conversation. mine doesn't have the right-wing-esque clinton-hate. lol. and no calls for pols deaths, lol, saw a couple calls for democrats death, that freaks me out.

[frylock]

47. there was plenty of outrage here..

if you'd been around during bush's reign of terror then you'd know that.

[HappyMe]

59. I was here, just not very much.

My marriage was in the dumper. So after I was separated then divorced, I did not have much time for DU. Too busy supporting myself.

[frylock]

60. sorry to hear all that, but we were very much against this when bush was in office..

and we weren't very shy about letting people know.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

35. And nothing beats "word of mouth"

Just ask any of your marketing friends, and that is why companies love social networks.

So just by reading DU, and then talking to your social network, you are doing a real service for this issue, especially since one of the biggest things we are battling is misinformation.

[ReRe]

42. Well...

... posting is INFORMING.

[Downwinder]

6. How can we stop being monitored?

Have large monitored demonstrations?

[Junkdrawer]

9. What stopped the Stazi in E. Germany?

That

[Downwinder]

12. Technology has changed much since the Stazi.

Can I suggest some other steps?

Electronic interfaces physically incorporated in subpoenas that limit the scope of access.

Cop Watch has shown monitoring them to be effective.

Policies and procedures should be public information.

There should be no "secret laws" in a democracy.

---

For a start.

[Junkdrawer]

18. From your lips to God's ears, but....

We are an Empire in decline - in a world that has vastly exceeded its carrying capacity - all the while Climate Change and resource depletion further reduces that carrying capacity every day.

People at the top are scared shitless. And they are reacting more and more maladaptive at every turn.

When I hear "all is (or will soon be) well", and see preparations for chaos, I'm less hopeful.

When I hear people in power admitting to the problems, asking for help from all quarters, and talking shared sacrifice, I'll see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[xchrom]

7. Du rec.

[randome]

8. No. I will not accept a PowerPoint slide as an official document.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[HappyMe]

10. Yeah, there's that.

Concrete proof, not a fucking PP doodad that anyone could get together.
Again, what's the deal with the laptops handed over to the Chinese?

Too many questions about this guy.

[rhett o rick]

13. So you are saying that you want further investigations? nm

[HappyMe]

15. Concrete proof.

What the hell is going on here. If I'm not supposed to trust the damn government, why the hell would I trust this snowden guy. At least I get to vote for the people that represent me.
What is the deal with the Chinese? What did the dear 'hero' give them? How long has he been giving them stuff?

I want actual FACTS, not blind hero worship. People can reply here with the usual 'but freedumz1' 'authoritarian!' 'yer with us or agin us!1'. I just want some damn facts.

[wandy]

28. I'm with you on that.......

What was the actual job description.
What did his resume look like.

Old habits die hard.

[HappyMe]

31. Why did he have that much clearance?

Hey, people scream bloody murder about the blind sheep following Obama.

Here we have blind sheep following somebody nobody knows shit about, nor has reason number 1 to trust.

[wandy]

39. As to why he had that authority. If you're not scared now.............

See this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017126247

It is possible to get at least moderate clearances by virtue of you're employer. At least in commercial environments. Long ago and far away I could climb all over banks, hospitals and county governments data centers.
As to federal environments.... I hope someone knew what they were doing!

I wonder more about the technical end.
Did he have access. Actual job description.
If he did not have access, did he have the craft to steal the information.

Bottom line.
Would I have allowed this person on my team.

[HappyMe]

40. Good grief.

I agree 100%.

[Skittles]

48. "actual FACTS, not blind hero worship"

OMG THE IRONY

[Th1onein]

50. Sorry, but the rumor that he gave info to the Chinese was just part of the smear campaign.

He's given them nothing.

[treestar]

54. +1

We are accused of blindly worshipping Obama by people who blindly worship Eddie (and won't even back off on it when finding out he fled to China). It's hilarious. At least Obama has been known to us for years. Eddie was declared a hero the first day they'd heard of his existence.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

37. And that's strange, but we got more than that too

Whistle blowers.

BTW: I don't mean the powerpoint itself is strange, but that people dismissing it simply because it is a PowerPoint is strange.

[neverforget]

49. But it's not OFFICIAL! The TOP SECRET//SI//NOFORN on it means nothing

because it's a Powerpoint slide.

That is denial plain and simple.

[marions ghost]

14. LOL hell no

Some of what I want (I posted this in another thread so re-posting here)

User Rights Laws--ie. consumer protections. With extreme penalties.
---------------

For example, when you delete things yourself, they ARE deleted. They do not live on even in zombie form.

When someone has access to a database, they do not get to look at your data anonymously.

Contractual agreement that your data is scrubbed within a certain time frame. Dead, gone. Can no longer be used in any legal way.

Controls on linking databases.

Guess what? All these protections are technically doable. They just don't want us to have them.
--------------
We can't rely on merely evading infiltrators. I'm talking technical checks and balances benefiting the consumer from the outset--not after the fact. At present, we are treated like children. Why should we be in this position? Because all this is new to many people and they don't really understand it. The PTB have taken great advantage of that fact. We need consumer protections that are policy with technical solutions to support this. But if we all say, "there's nothing we can do..."--that is IMO, absurd. The same minds that built the e-infrastructure & management systems CAN protect us from abuses--it's the political will to do it that we need. Demand it.

------

For starters, support the ACLU and the EFF:

https://www.eff.org/sites/default/files/who-has-your-back-2013-report-20130513.pdf

For the 2013 report, we used the following six criteria to assess company practices and
policies:

1. Require a warrant for content of communications.

In this new category, companies earn recognition if they require the government to
obtain a warrant supported by probable cause before they will hand over the content of user
communications. This policy ensures that private messages stored by online services
like Facebook, Google, and Twitter are treated consistently with the protections of
the Fourth Amendment.

2.
Tell users about government data requests

To earn a star in this category, Internet companies must promise to tell users when the
government seeks their data unless prohibited by law. This gives users a chance to defend
themselves against overreaching government demands for their data.

3.
Publish transparency reports.

We award companies a star in this category
if they publish statistics on how often they provide user data to the government.

4.
Publish law enforcement guidelines

Companies get a star in this category if they make public policies or guidelines they have
explaining how they respond to data demands from the government, such as guides
for law enforcement.

5.
Fight for users’ privacy rights in courts.
To earn recognition in this category, companies must have a public record of resisting
overbroad government demands for access to user content in court.

6.
Fight for users’ privacy in Congress. Internet companies earn a star in this category if they
support efforts to modernize electronic privacy laws to defend users in the digital age by joining
the Digital Due Process Coalition

[KoKo]

17. Good Points Again, Marion's Ghost. They are Doable if there's a Will..there's a Way..

Thanks for reposting this here in this thread.

[marions ghost]

24. No prob

thanks for your corroboration.

[KoKo]

25. MG...this deserves to be it's own OP...

[marions ghost]

36. thanks Koko

OK I'll try it

[Junkdrawer]

27. Resistance is good.

Resistance to tyranny is ALWAYS good.

Revoking the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments is tyranny.

[marions ghost]

32. Yeah and good point about adding the 5th amendment

Resistance is the only option some of us have. Pretense & denial is not in our DNA. We don't take well to being abused.

[Hydra]

16. I won't be ok with this no matter how much whitewashing happens

You can't suspend the law selectively- it's either there, or not there.

Mind you, it's been questionable whether we've been anything other than a rogue nation for a LONG time.

[KoKo]

20. Wouldn't this be Job of FCC or our new Consumer Protection Agency?

I don't hold out much hope for FCC..the new head is just a corporatist. But, maybe the the CPA?

If we yell loud on the internets...it creates a buzz. Not as much as it used to because we fight with each other on the Nets these days....but, this is an issue where there would seem to be so much commonality for "Consumers" (as Bidness Community calls us) that it should be an issue.

"Marion's Ghost" has some good comments about what we should demand that would seem to be very workable and reasonable for a start to put in some necessary protections.

[marions ghost]

29. I don't think we have much consumer protection

in America--it's buyer beware (meaning "sue me" if you have the money).

Would they ever address this Elephant in the Room, the govt being so complicit and secretive & all? Probably at this point it's just a pretense of a consumer protection agency. Make people feel good & do nothing. Paint me cynical about government agency support.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/

[KoKo]

46. There was Backlash and every local TV Station had their "Consumer Advocate" doing

a segment on the news.

It ended with Reagan as I remember it. Sorry....don't have time to dig out the links but it was there.

[WillyT]

21. Here:

Link: http://prism-break.org/





& Rec !!!

[KoKo]

33. Thanks for this list.. It's good for internet Savvy...but,

for the average person using computers today who are of the "AOL" generation as their first experience most on the list would be too hard for them to deal with.

We need to protect all our Internet Users (Consumers) no matter what skills they have or lack.

This is helpful though and thanks for the post.

[WillyT]

38. You Are Quite Welcome !!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Nope. It's working. More and more people are becoming unwilling to trust the spooks.

But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing. Thomas Paine

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

44. Ah, Ron Cobb one of my favorites.

We were so much older then.

[TheKentuckian]

41. Not in this lifetime.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

45. The Tom Tomorrow cartoon reminds me of the sign that hung in my office

at the university, right there in front, for all to see.

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

[graham4anything]

51. I think I have seen this 9 times. Wish some of the past TT's would have been seen 9 times.

those were far funnier than this one.

[Skittles]

52. you remind me of Aerosmith failing to find humor in Spinal Tap

[treestar]

53. We aren't being monitored

And there is plenty of chance to oppose that which is being done. Epic fail. Do you feel sorry for yourself enough yet? I know on the left we like to be victims, but none of us are going to be spied on, it's ridiculous. Cut the "we." If someone is being spied on, they could complain about it, too. If innocent people are spied on, it's Muslims. Or people a lot higher on the totem pole than DU posters.

[BeyondGeography]

55. Have we identified an actual victim yet?

[randome]

56. We are ALL victims now. Or some such nonsense.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[BeyondGeography]

58. Someone wrote last night that many people here

are acting the way gun hoarders did after Newtown. One of the better takes on this, imo.

[ileus]

57. It's just another sign of progress from our government.

We're safer this way.