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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPeter King just made sense re: Snowden on msnbc
Last edited Fri Jun 14, 2013, 02:53 PM - Edit history (1)
Hate to agree with him but he said the obvious. Snowden chose to release documents alleging US spying operations on Chinese targets exactly when Obama was having sensitive discussions with China's leader here in Palm Springs.
This is truly glaring and not heroic by any measure. How can this be defended?
ps For the ironically challenged - I am not a King Apologist Bear!
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)His good outweighed this bad?
cali
(114,904 posts)it's about the NSA and the ever increasing massive surveillance states.
As I said before, hero or demon's spawn, I could give a shit. I care about the issues not the personalities. little minds focus on the personality dog shit
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)That doesn't answer the question
allin99
(894 posts)he wants citizen to not be concerned about nsa activities.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Here's what I think, if Peter King says something I assume automatically it is a lie.
What next, Fox News is now a truth-telling 'news' organization?
But back to reality. This isn't about Snowden. And those supporting the massive surveillance program better hope he is not a spy, because that will only prove how disastrous it is to trust any government with our Constitutional Rights, and you can be sure that your new friend Peter King will blame it all on Obama.
Just stick to what's right, our Constitutional Rights should never be given up and the fact that they have, is simply shocking, that anyone calling themselves a Democrat supports these Bush policies is even more shocking.
I support the Constitution. That makes life easy for me. I don't have to go support morons like King, or Ari Fleischer or Snowden or Bush's policies to try to justify my being willing to ignore it when OUR team does wrong. I just couldn't do that. Have you noticed that it's mostly Republicans, like Clapper and Fleischer who are rushing to support this program? That alone should warn people about which they are on.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)but at least he knows a diplomatic disaster when he sees one.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)sanctuary there.
Fla Dem
(23,745 posts)If this was a spy thriller movie, where the "hero"
-was a high school dropout
-where both the community colleges he said he attended has no record of him
-was kicked out of the army after 3 months
-goes to work at the NSA
-get his next job at a NSA sub-contractor at a salary of $122,000
-moves to Hawaii with a good looking girl
-receives a high level security clearance
-has access to the most sensitive documents regarding government surveillance
-after 3 months at his job somehow manages to steal high security documents
-turns those documents over to a reporter who just coincidentally he had been in contact with BEFORE he went to work for the sub-contractor
-up and leaves his girl friend in Hawaii and seeks sanctuary from one of the most oppressive governments in the world
-releases those documents which details electronic surveillance on that country just as the President is meeting with the head of that oppressive government
We would give the movie a thumbs down as way too far fetched to be real.
I am not happy that the NSA is collecting all my electronic data. But to me this guy is not a whistle blower. This information was known by congress. These procedures are legal under the Patriot Act. If this guy wanted to bring these practices to light, there were plenty of outlets in the USA he could have used. He went to a foreign country to "expose" the practices, he has sold information to the Chinese press, and he is hiding in a foreign country. By revealing this information the way he did, it has compromised any advantage the NSA had in tracking terrorist plots. In my books he is a traitor.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)starring Michael Cera.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)JackN415
(924 posts)The publisher might ask if it were a class project of Beginner Writing 101 in an adult education program of some community college.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)...to direct tapping by contractor specialist to heads of state without supervision
These were bombshells in and of themselves
but he had to make this a Obama worse than Bush peice of crap story
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)and international fame.
He's playing the fame game and will parlay it into expensive media appearances and the pro lecture circuit. Big bucks await him now, plus donations, maybe for legal fees!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)He'll be on the run for the rest of his life (Snowden I mean - Greenwald will be under a shit-ton of scrutiny, too).
allin99
(894 posts)you're not serious that he did it to be on a lecture circuit, are you?
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)it is blowing up in his face...which is why he is now lawyered up!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't trust him at all. Agreeing with King can make anyone ill.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...that he proves regularly...
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)was outrageous.
There is no connection between hurting US China relations and the poutrage we are seeing.
No one on this thread is defending this act, the one with the most long term consequences for the US.
We needed progress on curbing piracy and hacking from China. It was FULLY undermined by allegations that were made no doubt without real proof - documents.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)If China's leaders were unaware we were spying on them, they're criminally incompetent.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)damage was done.
Certainly at the popular level. It does appear that it was news to many.
--
A 29-year-old former government contractors claims that the U.S. has been hacking Chinese targets since 2009 prompted both dismay and some bemusement on both the mainland and in Hong Kong, where he has been holed up for nearly a month.
In an interview published late Wednesday by Hong Kongs South China Morning Post newspaper, Edward Snowden, a former contractor for the U.S. National Security Agency, said he believed there had been more than 61,000 NSA hacking operations globally, including hundreds in Hong Kong and on the Chinese mainland. Those claims followed intelligence leaks Mr. Snowden made earlier this month to British newspaper the Guardian about U.S. surveillance, which prompted a political furor in the U.S.
When it comes to Hong Kong politics, activists typically see Beijing as the main source of meddling in local affairs. Although the former British colony returned to mainland rule in 1997 and continues to operate with its own distinctive political systems and rule of law, pro-democracy activists fear Beijing is encroaching on the city.
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/06/14/dismay-anger-in-china-after-allegations-about-u-s-hacking/
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)hack attacks at our infrastructure, especially.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)or if Snowden set US interests back for the sake of his own hide.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)The President is always doing something important somewhere. If he was worried about the timing of the release of these stories, not engaging in the behavior outlined in the stories would have been a good move on the President's part. When Greenwald publishes his next story--and he says this will be very soon--someone somewhere will complain about the timing of that story too. No matter what day it comes out, it's going to inconvenience some people, and it's going to derail some agendas. It's the nature of scandals of this magnitude to do so.
allin99
(894 posts)whatever he can to discredit snowden, but it's not about snowden. the more invasive the surveillence, the happier mr. king is.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)nt
Marr
(20,317 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,757 posts)I'm not crazy about the fact that it has strengthened China's hands in the negotiations.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)It doesn't, it's a screw up, and if planned pure treason.
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Now, there's something I didn't think of. Now that I have, I'll just...
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)the US hacking Japan.
Yes? No?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)going forward for anything that requires world agreement, say climate or trade
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)He doesn't give a shit about our interests or those of the world to lessen distrust and work for peace.
He's self seeking and grandiose.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)What about the issues surrounding spying rather on the one exposed the spying?
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)but this is why I limited the discussion.
The question is whether you defend what he did by compromising US interests regarding Chinese activities
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Do you blame the Chinese for being pissed off at being spied on? No matter who reveals it.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)you don't want to answer the question
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)You're defending a policy of spying. And, when caught out doing it, complaining about the revelation of the spying.
I repeat:
Snowden is not the issue.
randome
(34,845 posts)I want there to be more niceness in the world, too, but I don't much expect the world to change because of that.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Jesus, did the entire 5th grade get the memo?
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I think that's not realistic. And likewise we don't "trust" them. Everything is negotiation, business deals. I wouldn't mistake pleasant formalities for trust. It's a kabuki dance and everyone wears a mask.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)until today?
I thought not.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)even Reagan SOOOOO?
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)How fucking shocking....NOT.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)The talks ended on Saturday: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jun/08/obama-concludes-talks-with-chinese-president-xi/
Snowden didn't reveal himself as the source until Sunday. He talked about the spying on China very early Thursday, Hong Kong time, so Wednesday, US time.
So, King does not 'make sense'. He didn't 'say the obvious'. He's just wrong. As anyone with a vague memory of what happened this week would realise, even without looking it up.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)since he complained about it to Obama.
This is verrrry interesting in fact.
This means that the bombshell was set to explode immediately after the talks.
Sounds like Snowden is owned by the Chinese.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)"he complained about it to Obama"?
Link, please.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)that I found with terms like
xi hacking
xi palm springs
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)You know which article you're talking about - you can find it quicker.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)However, at a press availability following the nearly three-hour session, Xi did not respond directly to an American reporter's question about whether China is responsible for computer intrusions targeting major institutions in the United States.
"China is a victim of cyberattacks," Xi insisted. He complained that media reports might "give people the sense that cybersecurity as a threat mainly comes from China or that the issue of cybersecurity is the biggest problem in U.S.-China relations."
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)and he replies China is a victim of cyberattacks. He doesn't accuse anyone. If you think the Chinese are so bad at computer security that they can't even tell when someone is trying to break into their systems until an NSA contractor tells them, then you must think we have nothing to fear from them at all, since they'd be less competent than, say, CBS News, who are now pointing out a reporter's computer was hacked.
So, no, that doesn't show in the slightest that Snowden said anything to the Chinese while the talks were on. We can say, once again, that King is full of shit. Sadly, you are desperate to believe him.
progressoid
(49,999 posts)flamingdem
(39,321 posts)It's the timing.
And it's interesting to see if we can feel firm about what happened, chicken - egg.
That might be all we ever get to go on.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It's not about Snowden, but what was revealed. Go back to sleep...