General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAfter Closed Door Meeting, (some?) Senators Toe NSA Line (June 13, 2013)
June 13, 2013 by Common Dreams
After Closed Door Meeting, Senators Toe NSA Line
- Jacob Chamberlain, staff writer
The U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee met with officials from the NSA, Justice Department, and the FBI in a closed door briefing Thursday to learn more about the telephone and Internet surveillance programs within the NSA that were revealed by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden over the past week.
Mark Wilson/Getty Images General Keith B. Alexander, the Director of the National Security Agency, walked to a closed-door meeting with the Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday.
NSA director Keith Alexander announced that the agency will be making public more information in the coming days about its surveillance programsin a bid to shape public opinion on the effectiveness and scope of the programsincluding the program's success in targeting "terrorists."
As the Senators filed out of the secretive meeting, Guardian reporter Spencer Ackerman was there to gather first impressions.
Senator Bob Corker, Republican of Tennessee, toed the NSA's line, stating, "We were given some very specific and information about how these programs have helped keep Americans safe." Corker did not specifically answer Ackerman on whether the NSA programs had helped prevent "dozens of terrorist events," as NSA director Keith Alexander claimed on Wednesday.
Regarding this claim, Senators Mark Udall and Ron Wyden, both members of the Senate intelligence committee, released a statement earlier on Thursday stating that they are not convinced by the testimony of the NSA director.
"We have not yet seen any evidence showing that the NSA's dragnet collection of Americans' phone records has produced any uniquely valuable intelligence," the statement read.
"When you're talking about important liberties that the American people feel strongly about, and you want to have an intelligence program, you've got to make a case for why it provides unique value to the (intelligence) community atop what they can already have," Wyden, an Oregon Democrat, told the Guardian in an interview on Thursday.
"Gen Alexander's testimony yesterday suggested that the NSA's bulk phone records collection program helped thwart 'dozens' of terrorist attacks, but all of the plots that he mentioned appear to have been identified using other collection methods," Wyden and Udall said in the statement. "The public deserves a clear explanation."
Heading out of the Committee hearing, Senate intelligence chair Dianne Feinstein said Alexander wants to be exact."
What he wants to give us are the cases where this stopped a terrorist attack, both here and in other places. And he wants to be exact about the detail and we should have that Monday, she said.
Feinstein added that it's her "understanding" that an individual NSA query of the phone records metadata database does not require a court order.
Thus, as Ackerman reports, "seemingly according to this description of her understanding, NSA can search through phone records unilaterally."
_______________________
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/13-9
As one CommonDreams poster wrote:
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Thats what made the old KGB in the USSR so dangerous.
I would have hoped we would know better, but it doesnt look like it.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
villager
(26,001 posts)"Law" is whatever they say it is, or want it to be.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Protesting is still, allegedly, a legal tool here. Something along the lines of Occupy (minus Zucotti Park and the peace/love face-painting bullshit) comes to mind.
I would suggest the first Occupy happen in the presence of the international press, at the Supreme Court which just banned protests on its grounds. And also that we all stop all entertaining.
*I would never advocate doing anything illegal* (Dear NSA, would you please file this post under P for protest so I can find it easily later on?)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)I just caught this in the Guardian
11.21am ET Conyers was also angry at administration claims that it had bent over backwards to ensure the programs are conducted with congressional oversight, Dan notes.
"In the past week many have implied that because you have briefed Congress we are complicit," Conyers said. "Can you acknowledge that briefing does not constitute my assent?"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/fbi-director-mueller-senate-nsa-live
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas asks, Can we declassify Fisa court decisions? On Tuesday Jeff Merkley introduced a Senate bill to do just that.
"I have to defer to the department of justice on that," Mueller says. But he goes on, "There are absolutely, in those opinions, matters that should absolutely remain classified," he says.
The secret decisions of the secret courts must remain secret in the name of security.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/13/fbi-director-mueller-senate-nsa-live
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...Dilbert and his Mom...
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 14, 2013, 02:41 AM - Edit history (1)
Feinstein: Congress will press legislation to limit contractor access to highly classified/sensitive material.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)a lot of access to information that nobody should have in most cases.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... doing all the snooping/gathering of info. You do know that the NSA has been privatized? These private contractors are all over the country and the world. I suppose that when they finish the Utah site, all or most of them will move in there under one roof? Who knows? We're always the last to know what the hay they are doing with our money.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)Asked to confirm that intelligence officials do not need a court order for the query of the number itself, Feinstein said, thats my understanding.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/dianne-feinstein-nsa-92760.html#ixzz2WAFcJFjC
Abq_Sarah
(2,883 posts)The Fox is guarding the Hen house.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Born in 1933, she should have retired long ago in my opinion. I seriously doubt that she understands this technology at all.
And, she is not a lawyer although she has served on the judiciary committee for years. Her opinions don't mean much. I don't think she understands any of this really well.
magellan
(13,257 posts)...not to engage in closed door meetings over the collection and dissemination of our personal information to strangers the world over for "national security". I won't be taking the word of any of the pro-blanket surveillance weenies since none of what they say about the usefulness of trawling that data can be trusted, or verified.
What they're doing is WRONG.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)She just wants to hide it better. Does that fool realize this genie can't be stuffed back in the bottle?
By Carlo Muñoz - 06/13/13 04:06 PM ET
Lawmakers plan to draft legislation that would limit the access that federal contractors have to highly classified information, the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence panel said Thursday.
...
"We will certainly have legislation which will limit (or) prevent contractors from handling highly classified data," she said.
...
NSA counterintelligence officials are conducting a damage assessment to see what other top-secret information Snowden gained access to during his time with the agency.
The more we (learn) the more dangerous this situation becomes, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) said Thursday after NSA chief Gen. Keith Alexander briefed House members on the situation.
...
http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/305465-feinstein-congress-to-block-contractor-access-to-highly-classified-information
Thank you Edward Snowden. Thank you.
magellan
(13,257 posts)... what definition of "highly classified data" they come up with behind those closed doors. I'm sure it'll be equitable.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)K&R, by the way
"Lawmakers planning bill to limit contractor access to NSA secrets." Now how is that going to work, exactly? Since the private contractors are the ones who do the collecting of all the info? The NSA has been all but completely privatized. THAT is what they want to hide from the public. We holler about the lobbyists (Corp lawyers) writing our legislation in Congress, and how our Congress/Elections are bought and paid for by The Corporation. Catherina, it goes much farther. If and when the public learns how much of their tax-dollar goes straight into Corporate pockets, I would think there would be a big stink about it, no?
Our elected leaders are working for The Corporation!
Catherina
(35,568 posts)This is why they've been watching citizens all these years- to keep us in line and every activist knows it. If what they're hiding, what you wrote, doesn't wake enough people up, nothing will.
ReRe
(10,597 posts).... they are staying up nights to figure out how to get out of this. The M$M/Press, of course, will say whatever they are told to say. Or hell, they may not say a word and just cover it all up with other other issues, like the GD fires in CO and CA, or the tornadoes, or hurricanes, floods, gun violence, car chases, and on the lighter side, Kim K's baby and Princess Kate is about due over in England (will no doubt include re-runs of the wedding.)
Catherina
(35,568 posts)As IF that thought even crossed his mind lol. What hubris.
They can stay up all night, all week, all year. I don't care. The MIC and its advocates don't deserve another moment's worth of sleep after all the harm they've done to people.
They keep screaming terror terror terror! As they rape our wages and use their machine to blackmail, exploit and kill.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)(big shocker), that UK didn't want him. Hey, I already told him (through my TV the other day) to just go to Ecuador.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)I wonder just how much more loudly the US will attack Ecuador with its fake charade of freedom and democracy at that point. Julian Assange would be able to use the company because sooner or later, Julian is going to make it there.
Did you sign the petition for him. It's already up to an amazing 675,000+ signatures. It gained 30,000 signatures in the last 10 minutes!
He put his life on the line. I figure the least we can do is sign it.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stop_prism_global/?fp
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)and really within the entire Terror Industrial Complex, which includes almost all of Congress, Obama and his key people.
They honestly don't understand why people are so upset about this, and they never anticipated this kind of public outcry.
When in your lifetime have you seen a bunch Generals peeing their pants to get back quickly with more declassified information? They never do this. The last thing any of them every wants to do is give anybody anything that might jeopardize the flow of billions of dollars into their fiefdoms.
This situation is really unprecedented. We need to keep the pressure on. They haven't given us a damn thing that justifies their massive projects to spy on Americans. Not a thing. It is not enough for a well-spoken General to come in with a well-rehearsed smile to figuratively pat America on the head and say (in effect) "Now there, there. Everything will be just fine. Don't you worry your little heads about these things. My General friends have all this under control. Just go about your business and let's not speak any more of this. 'Kay?"
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
think4yourself
(838 posts)Somebody has a creative writing paper due on Monday!
Catherina
(35,568 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)they have a MAJOR conflict of interest, being in the BUSINESS of manufacturing and defining the parameters in which they operate.
Many people here cannot fathom just how much influence trillions of dollars buys, not only government influence and in public relations, but from the thousands of entrenched people employed in the booming intelligence industry among us. They are no doubt good people, and work with other good people, but they have been indoctrinated into rationalizing their own existence for a really long time--since 1952.
They have checked us--and it is up to us to checkMATE them before it is too late.