At the end of the day we either have open government or we don't

[malaise]

Too many secrets, too many lies and too much emphasis on 'national interest' as a cover for corporate interests.
That is fascism. Yes the leakers will pay but if the truth is set free it's all good.
Time to stop fascism in its tracks.

Bushco's war on terror is a war on the very notion of constitutional rights in all liberal democracies and not just the USA.
Tear up the Patriot Act Obama - right fucking now.

[Laelth]

1. Obama can't just tear it up, as you know.

He could just order the NSA to stop collecting the data, however. Because he doesn't want to look weak, and because he does not want to be blamed for the next terrorist attack, the President is reticent to do so.

It appears that the party's position on this issue is that this should be a 2014 election issue. Argue that these are Republican laws (Patriot Act and the FISA Amendment), but that Obama is powerless to stop them. He has to enforce the will of Congress, presumably, as the Chief Executive. However, if we hang these laws around the Republicans' necks, we can argue to the people that we will limit these laws, correct their injustices, and scale back our domestic spying if (and only if) the people give us control of Congress in 2014.

I was advised to let the President do his job, to call my Congressman, to make this a campaign issue, and to vote. That seems to be the Party's position, for what it's worth.

-Laelth

[malaise]

7. I know and I'm fully aware that there are ReTHUGs and others who would

willingly organize an attack on America to gain power.
I hope you noticed that everything began with that Boston Marathon bombing just a few days before the opening of that so called Library in Texas.

[Laelth]

9. I fully agree that they would if they thought it would be useful.

And while I don't think the timing of these leaks is accidental, I do think they were timed in a way that limits the damage to Obama and to the Democratic Party. That said, if Snowden (or someone like him) is still releasing classified data in October of 2014, I'll change my tune on that subject and begrudgingly admit that this has all been a Republican ploy to gain power. I am not there yet.

-Laelth

[malaise]

10. We'll see

[graham4anything]

2. At the end of the day, either we have Obama government, or Rand Paul NO government. nt.

[cali]

3. horseshit. What the fuck is "Obama Government" anyway?

[graham4anything]

6. President Obama's agenda, which I am working to continue forever with future presidents

keeping his agenda moving forward

so we don't go backward with the Bush's, the Christie's, the Paul's, the Naders, The Ryan's, The Boehners, etc.

As someone signature here says
Everyday I wake up and Barack Obama is still president is a great day.

[cali]

13. you look on politics as a cult. It's disturbing. You view Obama as

a cult leader. That's disturbing.

And when it comes to certain polices, genius, there isn't a hair's breadth of difference between President Obama and President Bush.

[graham4anything]

14. whatever. One thing I don't do is blindly follow the altmedia or cliques.

nor am I saying you do.

If you think both are the same, well that is your opinion, and there are no rights that were taken away, you
and I are free to have the opposite opinion and vote any which way we choose.

I vote straight democratic, 100% of the time, except in the rare instances when there is no democratic candidate or the democratic candidate has no way of winning and the other candidate promises to caucus with them.

I didn't stray and vote for Ronald Reagan like a certain senior senator in the democratic party did.
I voted FOR Jimmy Carter.

[cali]

15. Are you actually claiming not to be a blind follower? That's amusing.

And I have not voted democratic 100% of the time. For one thing, Vermont has the only viable 3rd party in the country with office holders in the VT Senate and the VT House and holding statewide office and mayors offices. For another, I've long voted for Bernie. In addition, I proudly voted for dear old Jim Jeffords, a truly decent, honorable and liberal guy.

I certainly never voted for anyone but a dem for President. And I too voted for Jimmy Carter.

btw, I think the phrase alt media isn't terribly useful. I don't follow anything or anyone blindly.

[graham4anything]

17. I feel as a voter, I hired a person to do a job, and I stick with those I hire especially

ones who are doing a great job

and President Obama has done the best job since the first 2 1/2 years of Jimmy, and the best since LBJ.

I don't stray on one negative out of many positives but I know we are a lot better today thanks to the President and Vice President
and the people they hired.

I wanted President Obama in 2004 and got President Obama as I wanted, in 2008 and 2012.
And would like his agenda to continue forever.

Last person was John V. Lindsay in NYC, however, back then in NYC, as there was no electoral college for local races,
there were 4 parties and a person could be on two of them at the same time (or more), and I supported Liberal John V. Lindsay
in all his races. But that was 50 years ago, and the treatment JVL got showed someone like him (or more recent Jim Florio in NJ)
cannot win using those techniques.

President Obama is an extension of those before him, but he plays the political game better than Jimmy Carter did
(and Carter of course did not get a second term, President Obama did, by a landslide).

and as I want his agenda to continue, the person nominated is very important, because that person has to be able to win,
not just posit and lose big time.

[cherokeeprogressive]

4. We don't. We have secret interpretation of the law.

Last year one FISA request didn't get approved. Guess why? It was withdrawn. They're rubber stamped.

We have the govt asking the govt for permission to violate peoples' rights. And we have citizens who think it's okay.

We have citizens under the spell of The Cult of Personality who think it's okay.

[malaise]

8. I'm not sure if it's the cult of personality

I agree with them that Obama is better than any ReTHUG but fascism under Obama is still the same fascism.
It is also true that Obama cannot tear up the Patriot Act on his own.
That said there are Executive Orders that can stop some of this madness at home and abroad.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

5. Obama can't tear up anything. Call your members of Congress. Demand a repeal of the Patriot Act

This isn't about Obama anymore. Do the right thing!

[ProSense]

11. I agree, but

I don't think people realize how much President Obama has done to open the Government. Between the demands for more information and the mischaracterization of existing programs, some in place for decades, the steps toward more transparency have been completely overlooked.

Repealing the Patriot Act requires an act of Congress. Still, the FISA court has always operated in secrecy.

Remember the vote for the Patriot Act
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022987423

Bush broke the law. President Obama followed it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022990450

[malaise]

12. I know but he has to return the country and the world to some level of sanity

Use the pen and ban some of this shite

[Nuclear Unicorn]

16. In America government opens you.

[suffragette]

18. Highest recommendation

It's a terrible Pandora's Box that's been opened, creating a 'security' and surveillance apparatus that keeps growing, both from the fear of blame being placing if it's scaled back and, more so, from from all the money people are making from building and running these systems.
And the people making that money will fight hard for this growth industry, even while we are asked to take cuts in programs that provide genuine security for most of us, such as Social Security.