Snowden couldn't have dropped out of Special Forces School

[jmowreader]

We've pretty much established that Mr. Snowden doesn't have a high school diploma or a GED. And he claims to have dropped from the SF school at Fort Bragg due to bad legs.

Problem is, JFK Special Warfare Center and School at Fort Bragg requires a high school diploma for entry into the course.

So...what the fuck? Dude claims to have been training to be a snake-eater and that's bullshit. Dude claims to have been given an NSA security clearance that will let you see "everything" and that doesn't exist - the Agency works on a need-to-know basis and NO ONE has the need to know everything the Agency is working on, except maybe a handful of people whose pictures are hanging on the wall.

Basically, Snowden's story is starting to smell worse than my MRE farts.

[JI7]

1. i thought he did get a GED later

[jmowreader]

7. SWCS specifically says "high school diploma"

There are things in the Army you can't do with a GED.

[Eddie Haskell]

70. Mr. SnowDem?

Come on people ... he's a plant.
How about Snowed em?

[Ed Suspicious]

9. Which word did he miss in his primary school spelling bee? Does he have any speeding tickets?

What about missed curfews as a teen? We need all the angles before we can get to the meat behind the mustard that is this wiener in question,

[HipChick]

2. He also failed some basic IT certifications..

[Warpy]

3. When I saw how thin his presence on the net is

and how recently Booz-Allen-Hamilton rated a Wikipedia article, I began to wonder if something was being created right in front of our eyes out of thin air and wishful thinking. When we figure out who's doing that wishful thinking, we might have something.

In the meantime, whatever is going on looks a little like damage control over "the worst security breach ever" that Holder has alluded to.

Will we ever know who this guy is or what his function was? Probably not. Will we ever know what's really being shoved into the background? Probably never.

Is the story what the media have been led to believe it is?

Not a cat in hell's chance.

[BainsBane]

4. All this inquiry into his background means nothing

all that matters is whether the information is true.

[jaysunb]

5. Of course the information is true....

it's just, seven years old and being presented as if it's an unknown or newly discovered bombshell.

[sabrina 1]

8. Well if it's old news, you better tell the President. He stated clearly that it was a 'leak'. Is he

unaware that this is old news, because you can't 'leak' old news nor can you be prosecuted for simply repeating 'old news'.

Either you or the President is wrong. I'm betting the President knows what he's talking about. You all need to get these stories straight as you are contradicting each other now.

Is it a leak, meaning it should not be available to the public, or is it old news, meaning it's been around for more than seven years? THAT is the question!

[pnwmom]

14. The slides were classified, so passing them to the newspapers was illegal

no matter how old the program was.

[Agnosticsherbet]

77. If his background is false, on what do we judge the accuracy of his information? n/t

[BainsBane]

120. on the documents themselves

If the documents are accurate, it doesn't matter what the guy's background is. No one in the federal government has suggested they are false. Instead they are talking about the damage done by the leaks, which tells me they are genuine documents.

[me b zola]

6. There is nothing smelly about Snowden's story, just those who wish him to disappear

Nothing fishy about Snowden, but very much fish choking smoke from detractors.

[Life Long Dem]

10. Seems he already disappeared

On his own to China.

[former9thward]

37. Disappeared?

He is pretty open about where he is at.

[Eddie Haskell]

47. Doesn't have the education ... just the connections.

Sounds like a Bush appointment to me.

[krawhitham]

63. head in the sand much?

[me b zola]

98. I would ask you the same question n/t

[freshwest]

11. Well, good luck with dragging him down here. He's been anointed by Sir Julian. His shit don't smell.

Sounds like another one of our one-percenter celebrities to take our minds of the 'screw without the kiss' the media and GOP have planned for us in 2014. This will continue through the elections.

It's better than watching the saga of Anna Nicole or whatever one-percenter the media can find to get up and self-destruct on the air to keep us thinking about the real problems in this country. But the effect will be same. Keep the voters home.

Half the people I've seen posting here at DU all the way to Ratfucking #4 this week will not vote for a Democrat again, so the Koch dollars have done their job. We are in a fact free zone here, just as Romney he would not be held to the fact checkers, and DU agrees with that universe.

If any of the ones wanting Obama impeached AGAIN since last year's total logic and civic lesson FAIL, ever did vote Democrat, we are in trouble. I don't think Obama or anyone in the real world is counting on the chicken littles to save their bacon and don't care how damned angry they are.

The fact is that a lot of people who are being hurt right now have real problems and those are not being addressed here. So meh.



I really like your OP. You've got an interesting take that I suppose comes from your life. I'm not military, nor a fed, and don't know these details. I enjoyed reading this.

[LeftInTX]

12. ^^^this^^^

You're spot on....

Yep, it's a huge success for the Rs.

[jmowreader]

13. A lot of the things about Snowden's story just seem really fishy to me

Look at http://swampland.time.com/2013/06/09/four-things-to-know-about-surveillance-leaker-edward-snowden/?iid=ent-main-mostpop2

Claim 1: Snowden was previously a technical officer for the Central Intelligence Agency and worked at the National Security Agency (NSA) as an employee of Dell, a private contractor, before being hired by Booz Allen as an infrastructure analyst for the NSA in Hawaii.

My response:
This is the CIA's requirements for technical operations officers, which Snowden claims to have been: (see https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/science-technology/technical-operations-officer.html)
Minimum requirements include a bachelor's or master's degree (PhD highly desired) in: various engineering disciplines, computer science, physics, mathematics/statistics, chemistry, biology, or material science with a GPA of 3.0 or better on a 4.0 scale; as well as initiative, creativity, integrity, technical excellence and strong interpersonal and communication skills. A self-starter attitude, the ability to work independently and in a group, strong computer and internet proficiency, domestic and overseas mobility, demonstrated initiative, and writing/briefing skills are also required.

Experience in one or more of the following areas is essential:

Programming (C, C++, Internet, Windows 3.X/95/NT applications development, interrupt processing/service routines, device drivers, RS-232 communication applications)
Internet/Web technology
Systems engineering
Network security
Network engineering
Voice/data communications (satellite, RF, wireless and telecommunications networks)
Electromagnetic fields, antennas and propagation
Fiber optics and cable communications
Digital design and circuits
Analog design and circuits
Signal processing
DSP design and programming
Video design and circuits
Audio design and circuits

Now remember that this guy is a high school dropout with a GED and a couple of uncompleted computer courses. The CIA has thousands of applications from people who exactly meet the needs of the Agency because the job pays over $60,000 a year. They don't need to hire someone like Snowden to do their work because they can get what they want really easily.

Claim 2: that he believed Obama was going to put an end to "some of the surveillance practices," and "got hardened" after Obama continued the policies.

My response:
Okay, this shows intent. IIRC the guy claims to have gone into the Agency not realizing they spied on Americans, found out they did and decided to blow the whistle. Now it looks like Snowden hooked up with Booz Allen with very specific intent to steal at least this document.

Claim 3: Snowden told The Guardian "I had full access to the full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all around the world."

My response:
NO ONE has that kind of access. The intelligence community uses a process called compartmentalization.

Assume the CIA has an above-Top Secret program to monitor the marijuana farmers in Colombia, and it relies on covert agents. They name the program BUTTERMILK. (Special Access compartments have names totally unrelated to what they do so people can't figure out what the project does just from the name, which is why they wouldn't name the program SINSEMILLA or something else pot-related.) All the reports from this program would be classified TOP SECRET BUTTERMILK and only people read on to project BUTTERMILK would be able to get those reports. The number of people read on to this compartment would be kept to the absolute minimum - for reasons which at this point should be more than obvious.

What trips Snowden up is that an infrastructure analyst for Booz Allen wouldn't be on the need-to-know list for any of these weird compartments.

He also claims to have been able to shut down this entire system in an afternoon if he'd have wanted to - which sounds very much like an idle boast.

I wonder a few things here, namely who is this guy? I'm hearing all sorts of weird conflicting shit. He was a Special Forces candidate but he doesn't have the educational background for it. He was a technical officer for the CIA but he DEFINITELY doesn't have the educational background for that. I saw something that said he was a security guard at NSA; that's possible but Fort Meade doesn't have a real strong history of retraining security guards as analysts. This piece says he was an "infrastructure analyst" which to me indicates he was there to work on their computer systems, but Fort Meade's computers are designed so you have access only to the things your job requires, and an IT guy doesn't need to have the ability to open intel files. So was he an IT guy or an intel analyst?

There is a particularly odious form of humanity called the Wannabe. The Wannabe dreams of having been a hero when he was in the service but he didn't want to put in the pushups to get there, so he just tells people he was a SEAL or a Special Forces Commando or an Airborne Ranger, and people go all gushy over him until someone figures out he's full of shit. Snowden seems to be a wannabe to me, from the way he's talking.

Now for the big one: if he really is a wannabe, who's he working with that can gin up a fake record good enough for the security screeners to believe? Standards have eroded since Bush entered the scene, but they still crawl so far up your ass when you put in for a clearance as high as Snowden had that they can see how good the doctor who removed your tonsils was.

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. Add to that this post with more weird info:

This Snowden story has some odd aspects
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022982333

[Aerows]

19. He's full of shit n/t

[Recursion]

23. That promotion at Ft. Meade really got me. And what's the source for all this?

Fort Meade doesn't have a real strong history of retraining security guards as analysts

Yeah, that really stood out as weird to me. So did his having diplomatic cover in Geneva after a few months with CIA.

Is there a source for all this other than Snowden's say-so?

[sikofit3]

49. Your on to something

None of it makes sense. He had to have connections to get that job. I know from my own experience even applying at Booz Allen and having a friend that already works inside that it is so impossible to get in even when qualified. Definitely his previous security clearance helped because that is worth a lot of money but how did he get it in the first place since he moved around so much? I mean these companies want people with degree's and proven long term experience. Being former military is also a plus but still how did he get the diplomatic cover CIA position? I am sure we will find out who his "friends" were that helped him and that might even add more entertainment.

[Recursion]

56. Yeah, the claim of diplomatic cover in Geneva also floored me

I mean, not just diplomatic cover that soon, but diplomatic cover in one of the most sought-after posts in Europe?

I keep asking: is there a source for this, other than Snowden saying so? I don't want another Jesse MacBeth fiasco.

[Raine1967]

71. jmowreader ... your CIA Career link says it has been moved.

is there another place where I can see that info?

It's mighty interesting.

[freshwest]

90. Scroll down the page. There are half a dozen working links with that and more.

I just went through all of them, and they all work, nothing is missing, just enhanced.

[jmowreader]

106. Go to cia.gov/careers

Or just copy-and-paste the link.

Turns out you can't link to the CIA website. But check out the CIA Careers website...if you can deal with working with those guys, and if you've got what they're looking for, they have some REALLY neat jobs.

[Raine1967]

112. Thanks!

I figured it out.

I was checking out the jobs there, a lot of interesting stuff -- but probably not for me...

[LeftInTX]

85. Thanks for the CIA qualifications

It didn't ring true with me..

He also says he worked for NSA in Japan. Was he working with an NSA contractor? He's been with the current company, Booz-Allen < 3 months.

One thing I do believe: He worked for Dell! I truly believe this. (He reminds me of a Dell employee.)

According to campaign contributions in May 2012 he was living in Hawaii. Apparently working for Dell. Is Dell also an NSA contractor?

[Bobbie Jo]

27. +1000

Every. Word.

[bigtree]

34. +

[graham4anything]

44. +million

[one_voice]

45. ^^^This^^^

Last edited Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

This here:

Half the people I've seen posting here at DU all the way to Ratfucking #4 this week will not vote for a Democrat again,

You know what I've noticed. I look at the all the threads, and it's the same shit over and over, by the same few people. Read the threads same people saying the same things. But here's the thing, those people, I only see here and there; UNLESS there's some shit to stir, a scandal brewing then they're posting like fiends.

After the scandal/shit storm dies down you'll see spotty posting at best.

You rarely/never (for some) see them post on 'good news' but if you say they have an agenda they act all offended.

[Whisp]

66. yes, it's been a long pattern here. Exactly as you say.

no fucking shame at all, those. and why? because they can get away with it over and over and over. By the time Obama's term ends they will have at least 30 more made up republican shit stories to cream their pants over and support.

[DCBob]

59. +1!

nicely stated.

[Marr]

78. I've noticed you BOG-types seem to be incapable of understanding

anything in between worship and scorn.

If someone doesn't share your hatred of some person, it does not mean that they idolize that person. I've seen this repeatedly, and I really don't understand the binary thinking.

Is it just simple projection? You can't see anything outside of the 'blue team/red team' partisan lens yourself, so you assume no one else does either?

For what its worth, I don't give a damn about the details of Snowden's life, or if he's a nice guy or a complete asshole. It's immaterial. The information he brought to light is what's relevant.

[thucythucy]

113. I think the point is that if

he couldn't possibly have access to this information, and has exaggerated or outright lied about his "service"--then maybe the information he's supposed to have leaked isn't so good either.

I've seen too many of these "scandals" turn out to be BS--but only AFTER they do huge damage to Democrats and anything resembling a progressive agenda. And I've seen too many Democrats--who should know better--eager to jump in immediately to condemn fellow Democrats before all the facts are in. Remember ACORN? It was destroyed on the basis of a BS story put up by a right wing fraud--all of which was eventually known--but too late to save what was an important progressive organization with a proven record of empowering the very people we say we want to empower.

I'm no fan of police states--my family has personal experience with how they work. But I'm also no fan of media shit storms that come out of nowhere on the basis of a single source.

Personally, I'm waiting to see what develops. Right now I can see no good purpose to my getting hot and heavy over all this until we have some more verifiable facts.

[Marr]

115. If the info he leaked was inaccurate, the WH would have denied it, instead of going after

him as a whistleblower.

I just don't see the point in denying a charge that the WH itself is leaving uncontested.

[thucythucy]

116. Actually, I thought President Obama today

denied the gist of it--the idea that the government was roving through millions and billons of phone calls, recording everything, spying on millions of American citizens.

What they ARE pissed about is the leakage of classified slides, which is against the law. The slides themselves, from what I've read, don't buttress the claims of this "whistle blower" but contain information that might otherwise harm the national interest. Then too, the fact that he was last reported in China probably doesn't sit too well with folks at the White House. Here's a guy who claims to have all kinds of super secret stuff about US intelligence, and he flees to CHINA for asylum?

And, it turns out, the Washington Post seems to be backtracking now on some of the more sensational claims made in their original story. And the writer of that story, as it also turns out, has a history both of attacks on Obama--and distorting evidence and transcripts to further his own agenda.

Check this out, from January of last year.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002101211

This is looking to me more and more like a mega version of the IRS "scandal", but of course I could easily be wrong.

Only time will tell.

[Marr]

117. There's that word again-- "directly".

That conditional has popped in just about every comment I've seen, and I've got to tell you, it sets off my lawyer-speak alarm.

[thucythucy]

119. My word, not the President's.

I'll take it out of my post on edit.

BTW, have you read the warrant that everybody has been hopping about? Here's a part I found very interesting:

"Telephony metadata does NOT include the substantive content of any communication, as defined by 18 U.S.C. 2510(8), or the name, address, or financial information of a subscriber or customer." The emphasis on NOT is my own. Not to mention, the warrant expires next month.

Like I say, time will tell. Meanwhile, while everyone on DU is focused on this, the GOP governor of Florida just vetoed his state's Dream Act, and the House is about to slash Food Stamps, which will cause suffering to millions of poor Americans, most of them children.

[Recursion]

16. There are waivers for everything

But, then again my skepticism perks up whenever anyone claims to have been in special forces, since that's not what it's actually called.

[Aerows]

18. It all sounds

like baloney to me.

[PDittie]

20. I've heard it called that since the '70's

out of the mouth of an Army Ranger. So could you say what they are called if they are not "special forces"?

[Recursion]

22. Rangers are not special forces. Neither is Marine Recon

Though both programs are often considered feeding programs into special operations.

Some units are designated as special operations forces or special operations capable, and a subset of those are placed under Special Operations Command (SOCOM). Casually, people might say someone who had received the special operations selection and indoc are "special forces", and many of those are Rangers, so I certainly wouldn't call the Ranger a liar; I just mean my skepticism goes up a level when I hear "special forces" rather than "special operations".

Note also that not all personnel assigned to SOF/SOC units or SOCOM have received special operations training. They have cooks and admin clerks, too. This was the Jesse Ventura thing. Was he a SEAL? He never went to BUDS or SRT or SERE, but he was assigned to a SEAL unit as I think a boat pilot.

[Pelican]

25. You and I might know that...

To the layman and regular reporter they are interchangeable terms...

I don't know when you got out but with the addition of additional branches to Army SOF, its gotten even murkier to anyone who doesn't live it.

[Recursion]

28. And I was in the Corps, which is its own world anyways

*shrug*

As I mentioned in an OP, I didn't even know there was the 18X enlistment option, and in my opinion that sounds like a horrible idea.

[Pelican]

54. As a rule I agree...

While there are exceptions, I think it beneficial for most everyone in the SOF community to spend time in the "real army" before coming up to play by the big boy rules.

The reality of course is that the "big boy rules" require more discipline than the rules in the deuce....

I had a funny picture about 18Xs but can't find it. Instead, just translate the rank structure to yut and I imagine it is universal .

[Cha]

121. Those are funny and pretty cute faces.. thanks Pelican

[Luminous Animal]

26. Hmm. The army called it that:

“His records indicate he enlisted in the Army Reserve as a Special Forces Recruit (18X) on 7 May 2004 but was discharged 28 September 2004. He did not complete any training or receive any awards,” the spokesman said.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-army-discharge-92486.html#ixzz2Vp7r6oLY

[Recursion]

30. Yeah, apparently that option dates back to 2002. I never heard of it in the early 2000s

But there were a lot of huge changes to special operations after 9/11. *shrug*

[Shrek]

52. You should tell the army, because apparently they're confused

http://www.goarmy.com/special-forces.html

[Recursion]

53. That's a recruiting site

If your skepticism doesn't perk up when you're talking to a recruiter, you've got some problems.

[Shrek]

72. I doubt they'd recruit for a non-existent unit

Like the 5th Special Forces Group:

http://www.campbell.army.mil/units/5thSFG/Pages/5thGroup.aspx

Or the 7th:

http://www.eglin.af.mil/units/7specialforcesgroup/index.asp

And there are several others. I'm not sure why you think Special Forces aren't real, but you are incorrect.

[Recursion]

73. I know SOF and SOC are real

I'm saying the term "special forces" rather than "special operations" always perks my ears up, because the SO guys I knew always said "special operations".

[loli phabay]

81. i think the post that said the terms are interchangeable to the general public got it right

Special forces is a term that most people will understand so its used by people when saying what the did in the mil. Also if i read that right, can you really just go straight from the street to a spec ops uniy, if so thats crazy and a big change in the makng of spec ops.

[Recursion]

83. Fair point

Also if i read that right, can you really just go straight from the street to a spec ops uniy

And on a reserve contract, at that. It's a brave new world.

[loli phabay]

86. dont think i would have felt comfortable in the day having someone just out of basic watching

My six, especially on longr range patrols when your team consists of four, to have someone with really no experience making up a quarter or more of your number would be disconcerting. I preger the old method of doing your time in the farm team then moving up.

[Recursion]

87. For that matter, I think all officers should be mustangers

But that's just me.

[loli phabay]

88. i prefer the seperation of officers as a career path, met some great guys who moved up but too many

Who made the jump did so for wrong reasons or got the attitude. I guess its a military culture thing, though luckily once i moved up from infantry we never really had officers involved apart from doing our admin and ops orders.

[Bandit]

60. When did they change the name?

I was attached to the 5th Special Forces Group in late sixties and they sure as hell called it Special Forces back then...

[Recursion]

61. Well, SOCOM was established in 1987

So probably before then

[jmowreader]

107. Special Forces is called Special Forces

SF is a subcommand of the Army Special Operations Command, and here's how it goes:

The joint-forces command is US Special Operations Command. That's at MacDill AFB, Florida, and runs all the snake-eaters in the military.

Below that is US Army Special Operations Command. It's at Fort Bragg, NC. They own several commands of their own, including...

US Army Special Forces Command, who owns the Special Forces Groups.

There are also the 75th Ranger Regiment, who are not SF, the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, who are not SF, US Army Special Operations Detachment-Delta, most of whom were SF but who are not now, and some groups they don't talk about even amongst themselves.

The base where I went to school had a Special Forces group assigned there. Its name was "10th Special Forces Group (Airborne)" so...since they call it SF, it really is called that.

[Aerows]

17. The whole

story sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me.

[PDittie]

21. I understood it as

"discharged due to two broken legs". Which is somewhat different from your characterization.

[Lex]

24. It is a given that the PR against him starts swiftly.

[Luminous Animal]

29. The Army Reserve confirms that he was a Special Forces Recruit.

“His records indicate he enlisted in the Army Reserve as a Special Forces Recruit (18X) on 7 May 2004 but was discharged 28 September 2004. He did not complete any training or receive any awards,” the spokesman said.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-army-discharge-92486.html#ixzz2Vp7r6oLY

[Recursion]

31. Wait, you can 18X into the reserves? WTF?

That's a horrible idea.

[randome]

38. English for the rest of us? Or some language that's easily translatable.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Recursion]

43. Directly enlist into a special forces track, into the reserves

He enlisted on a track to go into special forces, with a contract that specified he would be in the Army Reserve.

[loli phabay]

82. direct entrance is crazy, a better system is ten years in and then a recommendation

From your co, not sure how i would feel with a nineteen year old operator on a lurps.

[Recursion]

84. Agreed

Another sign our military is overstretched, I guess.

[jmowreader]

109. The National Guard has two Special Forces groups

The 19th Special Forces Group (Airborne) (SFG(A)) serves the western US. The 20th SFG(A) serves the eastern US.

[Recursion]

110. He didn't go into the Guard, he went into the Reserve (it says)

Huge difference.

[former9thward]

40. He broke both legs in a special forces training accident.

Interesting you left that out.

[Recursion]

57. No, they said he didn't even finish basic or AIT

I still don't get the "no awards" bit; if that's literally true, it means he wasn't even on active duty for 72 hours.

[former9thward]

93. Why hasn't the army denied it?

You would think since Obama is CIC and Obama hates this guy they would be right on it.

[jmowreader]

108. It looks like in 2004 you could go 18X with a GED.

The current recruiting information specifically says High School diploma.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. But he did, current info is not relevant

It's what the army confirmed

[madokie]

32. I thought this was bullshit from the get go

Was called names also because I voiced that opinion.

[MineralMan]

35. Yah, well, name-calling is pretty common in some circles.

[MineralMan]

33. The NSA is the most compartmentalized bureaucracy I know

of. You are correct. No mere employee has any kind of blanket access there. Private contractors have even less. Most of what has been released is trivial in terms of its classification status. We used to joke that the cafeteria menu at the NSA was classified TOP SECRET. Sometimes we wished that were true and that we didn't have the need to know it.

The documents released up to now have been briefing presentations, targeted at people who didn't need to know many details but who the agency had to inform to some degree. The classification of those documents was designed more to impress those people than to actually protect anything. Congress members, for example, need to see TOP SECRET documents, because they hand out the money. So, they see documents with TOP SECRET on them.

[graham4anything]

36. Sounds like he served as much as Bush did in the national guard

[former9thward]

39. He broke both legs in a special forces training accident.

Did you expect him to keep going, broken legs and all? Where did you serve? Oh that's right .....

[graham4anything]

41. The OP says that story was not true. Did you read the OP?

[former9thward]

46. USA Today says it is true.

The OP does not say it was not true. Did you read the OP? The only thing the OP says is "And he claims to have dropped from the SF school at Fort Bragg due to bad legs." I'll take their word over the OP who is anonymous making a self serving claim.

If it is not true the army would say so. http://www.usatoda y.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/09/edward-snowden-guardian-interview/2405873/

[Brother Buzz]

58. He did NOT break his legs in a Special Forces training accident.

Even on his fast-track, he wasn't in the service long enough to enter Special Forces training. Doing a bit of fuzzy math, one could assume he broke his legs in "Jump school": His records indicate he enlisted in the Army Reserve as a Special Forces Recruit (18X) on 7 May 2004 but was discharged 28 September 2004.

A recruit who enlists in the 18X Special Forces enlistment program will attend Infantry OSUT (One Station Unit Training), which combines Army Basic Training and Infantry AIT (Advanced Individual Training), all in one 17-week course.

Upon graduation, recruits attend Airborne Training at Fort Benning, GA. After "jump school," recruits attend a 4-week Special Operations Preparation Course (SOPC) at McKenna MOUT Site, Fort Benning, Georgia. Following graduation from SOPC, recruits are scheduled for the Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS) program. This is a very tough course, and has an extremely high wash-out rate. The Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS) program assesses and selects Soldiers for attendance at the Special Forces Qualification Course (SFQC). This program allows SF an opportunity to assess each Soldier's capabilities by testing his physical, emotional, and mental stamina. The SFAS also allows each Soldier the opportunity to make a meaningful and educated decision about SF and his career plan.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjobs/a/18x.htm

[Recursion]

62. And why did he get "no awards"? You get the NDSM after 72 hours.

Or has that changed too?

[Brother Buzz]

74. I wasn't notified I was 'awarded' a NDSM until I was issued a DD 214

What's this 72 hour shit?

National Defense Service Medal Eligibility Requirements:

Honorable active service as a member of the Armed Forces for any of the following periods, all dates inclusive: 27 June 1950 to 28 July 1954; 1 January 1961 to 14 August 1974; 2 August 1990 to 30 November 1995; and 12 September 2001 to a date to be determined.

It is awarded for honorable active military service as a member of the armed forces of the United States including the Coast Guard, between June 27, 1950 and July 27, 1954, (Korean War), between Jan. 1, 1961 and Aug. 14, 1974, (Vietnam War), between Aug. 2, 1990 to Nov. 30, 1995 (operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm), and currently from Sept. 11, 2001 to a date to be determined (terrorism attacks on the United States). Service members who earned the medal during the first qualifying period, and who again became entitled to the medal, wear a bronze star on the ribbon to denote the second award of the medal.

[Recursion]

75. I got mine after boot camp

And the effective date was 3 days after I got on the bus.

[Brother Buzz]

79. I wasn't 'awarded' one, it was issued and....

I was ordered to stick in on my uniform, along with my Bolo badge. Snowden was never in 'Special Forces'.

[Recursion]

80. Medals and ribbons are both "awards"

Along with meritorious citations/masts.

[former9thward]

92. Why hasn't the army denied it.

Are they part of the conspiracy too? The Smear Machine rolls on.

[Brother Buzz]

95. What has the Army not denied?

[former9thward]

96. His story.

Since everyone claims that everything is a complete lie in an attempt to deflect from the real story.

[randome]

99. Give them time. Geeze, we only 'met' Snowden over the weekend.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[former9thward]

101. Obama is the CIC and he hates this guy.

You would think the army would be right on this if it is all a bunch of lies. The army did not just meet Snowden. How come they aren't jumping on the Smear Machine?

[Brother Buzz]

103. Greenwald's story broached the 'Special Forces' stuff

and it's bogus from the get go; the dateline suggests it's an impossibility:

Even on his fast-track, he wasn't in the service long enough to enter Special Forces training. Doing a bit of fuzzy math, one could assume he broke his legs in "Jump school": His records indicate he enlisted in the Army Reserve as a Special Forces Recruit (18X) on 7 May 2004 but was discharged 28 September 2004.

A recruit who enlists in the 18X Special Forces enlistment program will attend Infantry OSUT (One Station Unit Training), which combines Army Basic Training and Infantry AIT (Advanced Individual Training), all in one 17-week course.

Upon graduation, recruits attend Airborne Training at Fort Benning, GA. After "jump school," recruits attend a 4-week Special Operations Preparation Course (SOPC) at McKenna MOUT Site, Fort Benning, Georgia. Following graduation from SOPC, recruits are scheduled for the Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS) program. This is a very tough course, and has an extremely high wash-out rate. The Special Forces Assessment and Selection (SFAS) program assesses and selects Soldiers for attendance at the Special Forces Qualification Course (SFQC). This program allows SF an opportunity to assess each Soldier's capabilities by testing his physical, emotional, and mental stamina. The SFAS also allows each Soldier the opportunity to make a meaningful and educated decision about SF and his career plan.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjobs/a/18x.htm

I'm not saying Greenwald is lying, but it would behoove him to go back and do a bit of fact checking and confirmation because someone blew smoke up his ass.

[haele]

69. There's several ways to get broken legs in Boot Camp.

And according to those I know who have gone through such training, Special Forces training can only begin after the first ten to twelve weeks of boot-camp and then an additional 2 - 6 months of tactical classes (schoolroom type) that include physical and mental fitness evaluation - even if you are a reservist who signed up specifically to get into Special Forces.

Boot-camp always comes first (unless you're a celebrity showing off), and it's not the five-day jamboree workout event that many of these fitness companies advertise.
As for broken legs -
One way of breaking limbs during training is the totally accidental event during the frequent obstacle course training exercises - which happens most of the time. Another is to find a way to get them broken yourself (usually during the obstacle course) if you don't think boot camp is your cup of tea (a guy in our brother unit who wanted out broke his arm "falling" off an obstacle - got sent to the base hospital to get patched up and spent a little recovery time, and sent home on a general discharge as soon as he was well enough to fly.)
The third is to piss a whole bunch of the unit - the "team" you are supposed to be training with off.

I'm not speculating, I don't have enough information. And yes, I have served.

Haele

[Recursion]

76. Does the Army rappel and fastrope in boot camp?

We had a guy on Parris Island break a leg doing the fastrope.

[haele]

91. I know the Navy did for both men and women taking the OC in the late 1970's.

The obstacle course was a voluntary substitute for some class event for the women (I volunteered - I think the class was a personal women's health and basic hygiene class, similar to the one we had in HS as juniors), but the men had to do it at least once and make both the overall course time and time requirements at each station. It was a bitch; while I sucked DBs at the rope free-climb (the only obstacle I did poorly at) and needed help, I was very good at rappelling (and most of the other rope stations) and met the time requirement for the men at all the other stations.

I would be surprised the Army didn't have to do that - after all, I saw that as part of the Army boot camp in "Private Benjamen" and "Stripes"...

Haele

[former9thward]

42. If his story is false why hasn't the base said so?

We've pretty much established No you haven't established anything except attempts to smear him.

[backscatter712]

48. That's right, no whistleblower or dissenter can act without an authoritarian smear campaign

How much do they pay you to spread this shit?

[darkangel218]

51. +1

[Bodhi BloodWave]

122. out of curiosity

is something a smear campaign if its factual?

Not judging for or against in this specific topic yet, but there are some DUers who even when presented with documented evidence will wave it of as 'spin' or something similar since it detracts from their argument.

[malaise]

50. So was he an RW plant

I am waiting for the unraveling.

[Cali_Democrat]

55. How dare you question Snowden The Great

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[flamingdem]

64. Snowden Snowjob

Gotta wonder now about Greenwald and the Chinese and Rand Paul

Lots of Red Flags

[freshwest]

94. I predict he will enter the lofty mythological realms any moment now. If he hasn't already.

Edward Snowden sounds like a member of royalty or the 1%.

I'm just so underwhelmed by them now, where has all the magic gone?

Sigh...

[Coyotl]

65. It should be fun to see the reactions on DU when he shows up at a Rand Paul for PreZ rally

There is a reason why the sheeple are kept ignorant in the USA, so that they can be herded with the greatest of ease

[DCBob]

68. probaby be his running mate.

the guys a joke.

[DCBob]

67. with such a remarkable history of lying and deception and false claims..

it does make one wonder.

[Half-Century Man]

89. This guy reminds me of...

Frank Dux (I had to look this loser up too). A bullshit claim for military service for self grandiosity.

[DevonRex]

97. I am beginning to think he's a decoy. Nothing adds up. nt

[Lady Freedom Returns]

104. +1

Watch what is being voted on/for on the Hill.

[GoCubsGo]

100. I wondered about that.

Doesn't the military strongly encourage their recruits to earn a GED, regardless of what unit they join? It really does stink.

[DirkGently]

102. If it isn't true, guess there's no "leak" then.

Wonder why the administration is so upset?

And wasn't the substance in the docs anyway?

Anyone suggesting they aren't real?

[LanternWaste]

105. I'm compelled to think that I know as much as everyone else on this thread and others like it

As I've neither anointed him as a saint, nor vilified him as "flawed man (that, by the way, is a very clever meme)", as I don't pretend to have the relevant information, nor pretend to know the policies and protocols of all relevant organizations he's associated with, I'm compelled to think that I know as much as everyone else on this thread and others like it...

I simply don't pretend that my opinions are weighty, and that any who may disagree with me are neither authoritarians nor are they guilty of treason.

That may actually be the most difficult thing for far too many people to allow... patience rather than passion.

[thucythucy]

114. "Patience rather than passion."

You hit the nail right on the head.

[bluestate10]

111. The guy that whistle blew on the Bush Administration warrant-less wire-tapping, called

parts of Snowden's story enhanced. I say let Snowden keep talking. I just hope Snowden's "progressive" bully pulpit here on DU don't evaporate into the background like they often do when proven wrong.

[MrMickeysMom]

118. You don't sound too convincing to me, based on that blather...

It sounds like you don't like the news lately. Too bad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. Given the army told us he did

I think you are wrong

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/10/snowdens-army-career-lasted-only-five-months/2407855/

Here, go argue with the Army