Let's face it. It's nothing beyond a SIMPLE MORAL ISSUE that Kaitlyn Hunt = RAPIST.

[alp227]

I think many here would agree with me that Kaitlyn Hunt's mother deceived all of us in her rambling Facebook post about her daughter's arrest. We were all tricked into thinking the parents of Kaitlyn's 15-year-old girlfriend wanted to ruin the life of 17-year-old promising student Kaitlyn.

Unfortunately the truth later came out: Kaitlyn was 18, the other girl 14, something that K's mother even had to admit.

Notice the discrepancy between the first story that Kaitlyn Hunt's mother told and the one currently on the "Free Kate" facebook? As i've posted:

At the beginning of this school year, she started dating a fellow student, who happened to be another female. This girl also played varsity sports, was in the IB program, so she was in classes with upperclassman. There was an age difference between my daughter and the other girl, of 3 years, my daughter was older, however you would have thought it was the opposite by just looking at the girls. My daughter is tiny, looks very young, and the other girl looks much older and is much taller, either way there was a 3 year age gap. They were both students in the same high school, it was a mutual consenting relationship on both parts.

Vs. now:

At the beginning of the school year, Kaitlyn made friends with a 14-year-old freshmen girl in Sebastian River High's IB program who played varsity sports and took classes with upper classmen. The girls were peers in the same social circle, and as happens every day in high schools across America, their friendship eventually developed into more. In September, shortly after Kaitlyn's 18th birthday, the girls began dating, and they eventually expressed their affection for one another in intimate ways.

Plus there's no evidence Hunt played any sports at her high school.

The law in Florida I think doesn't allow 14 year olds to consent to sex, and left, right, OR center most Americans agree that 14 year olds are TOO YOUNG for sex. Therefore, it's ONLY LOGICAL that what Kaitlyn Hunt did (as the disgusting affidavit details) what Hunt did was: STATUTORY RAPE.

I find it astonishing that DU universally condemns the Steubenville rapists and Daniel Tosh but Kaitlyn Hunt results in divisive 100+ post threads.

Hunt can also be accurately described as a HOMEWRECKER: what she did is probably going to tear apart her "girlfriend's" family. Who knows later on if her friend's dad may divorce or commit suicide later on because of what Kaitlyn put them through???

[NaturalHigh]

1. No doubt that the Hunt parents lied.

If the perpetrator in this case had been a male, there would be no debate whatsoever.

[craigmatic]

14. exactly. I'm tired of the double standard. A woman should be punished the same way a man would.

[EvilAL]

44. The same could be said

for heterosexual 'good rapes' where the woman is 18 and the kid is 14. 'Good rape', what a terrible term.

[Sheldon Cooper]

2. What the fucking hell??

Hunt can also be accurately described as a HOMEWRECKER: what she did is probably going to tear apart her "girlfriend's" family. Who knows later on if her friend's dad may divorce or commit suicide later on because of what Kaitlyn put them through???

You can't be serious. What utter garbage.

[dlwickham]

6. I'm at a lost for words

on what to think about that

stupid doesn't begin to describe it

maybe the OP is being sarcastic because I cannot imagine anyone actually thinking that the girl's father is going to kill himself

I'm more worried about the damage done to the 14 year old by her family and all hateful pricks who are too stupid to realize what the true issue is in this case

[Schema Thing]

3. whatever everyone "agrees" to, the average age for an American girl to have sex

is 14 years 9 months. I remember that because I had read about the study finding that just before learning that my stepdaughter had been climbing out the window at night to see her boyfriend for a few months; when we did the figuring, it turned out that she had first had sex at about 14 years 9 months.


Of course that was just one study, and it could have been wrong, but I have no real reason to doubt it.

[XemaSab]

25. You have a link to that?

'Cause if that were the case, for every girl who is 18, there are four girls who are 13... or younger.

I seriously doubt more than half the girls in the middle school are putting out.

[Agschmid]

27. Depends on that pesky definition of "sex"...

But is agree it's likely a smaller percent who engage. I'd like to see the study referenced.

[Schema Thing]

55. No, it's been 6 years or so since I saw that.

I agree it seems young and I'd like to see the data. It could of course have been a flawed study. Or it might be about the definition of "sex" as the poster above said. At the same time, it was specific not just on the year but the month, so the distribution would not need to be as dramatic as you say. Also, the 18 yo might really be that comparatively rare? Heck I was 24 but I doubt that I would even make for a statistical blip in a study such as this.

I do think that for males, their bodies are in a constant raging at them to have sex well before their 14th birthday, so if girls are similar, the age is probably going to be lower than society would like to admit.

[ZombieHorde]

4. Wow. Very bizarre OP. nt

[aquart]

5. The father may commit suicide because lesbian daughter has sex?

I'm a bit more worried that the 14-year-old may off herself. Her parents have shamed and criminalized her first ventures into sexuality.

The OP is a truly bizarre post and ignores what concerns me most: that two lonely, isolated girls found each other. And are being destroyed for it.

[alp227]

8. How do you know they were lonely and isolated?

I thought Kaitlyn was this outgoing girl in extracurricular activities with a promising future as a nurse, at least from what her ( lying) mom said, and who had dated boys before.

[aquart]

21. Uh, what is the percentage of homosexuality in the general population?

How many lesbians in YOUR high school? Think gaydar brings them together? Ever been present for a coming out? What does any teenager want more than anything else? TO FIT IN. She dated boys. Gosh. How unbearably lonely was that for a girl who couldn't want any boy as much as another girl. Even just to talk about how it felt to be so different.

Stunningly shallow and insensitive question.

[shawn703]

7. With all the stuff that's come out lately regarding Kaitlyn and Steve Hunt

Kaitlyn with her "beat her ass!" video and the reason why Steve lost his job as a police officer and subsequent fraud charges, I think a lot of people are starting to see who really has character issues. Hint - it's not the Smith family.

[alp227]

9. Google search returns right wing sites for those claims.

You know how I feel about the right wing gutter internet world. Looks like the same stuff they did with Trayvon Martin.

[shawn703]

11. I don't see a right wing agenda at any of these links

In fact, a website reporting on police crimes would seem more left-leaning to me than right.

How Steve Hunt lost his job (about 3/4 down the page):
http://www.policecrimes.com/police_brutality/Florida_police2.html

Steven Hunt's fraud mugshot:
http://www.ircsheriff.org/community/online-tools/inmate-records-search/2012-00001721

Kate Hunt's video:

I know that right wing sites are digging most of this up, since we on the left are the ones with egg on our faces once we allowed ourselves to be snookered by the Hunts into believing this was a LGBT issue and not an 18 year old with 14 year old issue. But facts are facts, and we aren't entitled to our own no more than those on the right are.

[alp227]

17. Like father, like child. Ouch.

Did a search, and the ViralRead blog cites an anonymous Sebastian HS student who claims:

I personally go to school and am in the same grade as Kaitlyn Hunt. I can tell you that the way the media is portraying her is far from reality. I have never even made contact with her before, but from personal experience I can say that she is not a good person and is not ‘innocent’. She is known as a whore throughout the school, constantly starts high school drama, gets in school suspensions, and is overall not well liked at all. No, I don’t have a grudge against her, I’ve never even made contact with her. It’s just that my whole school knows she’s not a good person and don’t think it’s fair the media is portraying this otherwise. Hopefully this video further proves she is not the girl everyone thinks she is.

My LORD! Since it's an anonymous hearsay account without independent verification elsewhere I'll take this claim with a grain of salt. But it won't be surprising if true given Kaitlyn's scumbag daddy.

[shawn703]

20. I won't give hearsay accounts any credibility

No matter which side the account favors. That's how the Smith's got labeled homophobic bigots, because supposedly someone somewhere overheard the girlfriend's mom say her daughter couldn't possibly be a lesbian. Nor would I say it's fair to call Kaitlyn a whore because someone who admits they never had contact with the girl somehow knows this from personal experience.

But when it comes to credibility, well, the Hunt's had about zero after their narrative was proven false, and less than that now that we know what kind of people they are.

[aquart]

22. Calling a lesbian a whore is a fascinating accusation.

Shows real knowledge, yes indeedy.

[Agschmid]

28. Valid.

[davidpdx]

36. What people say about you in high school is not always true

I could tell you some fascinating rumors that flew around my school about students (fortunately I don't remember their names, but I wouldn't say them if I did). I highly doubt they were true. Kids can be malicious and mean.

A perfect example, quotes were collected for the yearbook in my freshman year. Someone submitted a quote with my name and I certainly had not said it (I don't remember what it was, but I still have the yearbook in a box).

I say something to you, you turn around and say it to someone else and exaggerated the details, and they say it to someone else and exaggerate a bit more and of course how do you know what is true. The answer is you don't.

[davidpdx]

45. So some anonymous person has put up a website with a video

claiming that is that is Kaitlyn Hunt? Can you identify her from that video? Yes or no?

A person claiming to know her called her a whore. People that go around calling women whores anonymously are real big people. I think that kind of behavior is sick.

[shawn703]

52. The person who put up the video originally didn't do it anonymously

His name is Eric Bauer, plays tuba at Sebastian River high school, identifies Kaitlyn by the bird tattoo on her shoulder (yep it's there in the video and on her booking report.). The girl is also cheering on Emily in the video, and coincidentally Kaitlyn does have a sister named Emily.

Perhaps Eric Bauer just happened to film another girl helping someone named Emily in a beach fight who also just happened to have a bird tattoo on her shoulder and posted it claiming it was her to just smear her. I am sure someone could also dig up dirt on Eric Bauer to show he has no credibility to make any accusations either if any is there.

Or perhaps we can all agree that what anybody alleges is somebody else's motive or character doesn't mean a thing in this case (including claims of homophobic bigotry), and that this is a black and white case of whether or not a law was broken. It's looking like we on the left are starting to come to this conclusion. DailyKos did, some other LGBT groups did too.

[davidpdx]

57. I'm not saying someone should dig up dirt on Bauer

But that we don't know if the information he is posting is true or not. You have to take what is posted on the internet with a grain of salt.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with homophobic bigotry (and I think those words get thrown around pretty freely on this site, but that's a matter for another thread), but whether this whole thing is worth destroying two families.

I believe the entire situation could be put to rest quickly with a few compromises and let both families go on with their lives. It won't happen though.

[shawn703]

62. Sometimes though, more extreme actions are necessary

A parent has every right to have a say in who their child associates with if they can't make appropriate decisions on their own. If I had an idea of how Kaitlyn or her dad conducted themselves, I would have a problem if my kid even associated with them, never mind being romantically involved with the girl. An older peer can exert a lot of influence on a younger one, even more so if there's a romantic involvement. The Smith's daughter was engaging in delinquent behavior, sneaking out of the house at night to have sex, and conversations with the older girl were not working. They did what they felt they needed to do to protect their child. Has Kaitlyn shown contrition for her actions, or is she claiming to be the victim? Maybe there is room for compromise, but I don't see that Kaitlyn has even taken the first step in apologizing to the parents for not respecting their role as parents to the young girl.

[cali]

10. Personally, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to call her a rapist

and I find your post morally repugnant.

lord save us from people like YOU.

[alp227]

15. Do you not understand what statutory rape is?

What part of "statutory rape" do you not see as rape?

[aquart]

23. Probably the part where they were BOTH teenagers.

[shawn703]

50. So you'd be okay with a 19 year old man and 13 year old girl?

Both teenagers, after all.

[aquart]

51. Six years is twice three years.

But it would still depend on the people involved. Historian Will Durant was in his mid to late 20s when he met the 14 year old girl he called Ariel. They married when she was 15. She roller-skated to her wedding. It was a long and productive marriage. Together they wrote The Story of Civilization.

I assume you would have prevented that?

[shawn703]

56. I looked into that

Not only was there an age difference, but there was a teacher/student relationship as well. Had it been my daughter, absolutely I would have prevented such a relationship. In 1900, I can only imagine a relationship of this sort was acceptable (I couldn't find whether the parents consented or they eloped when they got married).

For all we know, Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau could have a long and productive marriage. It doesn't change whether or not I think the teacher/student relationship was legal.

[davidpdx]

42. +1

[Comrade Grumpy]

12. Is this satire?

[alp227]

16. I'm damn serious. My view of Hunt has transformed from innocent victim to predatory scumbag.

So what if "HER LIFE IS RUUUUUUIINED" because of her conviction? Her friend's parents told Kaitlyn to BACK OFF multiple times. She disobeyed them and the law at the same time. It surely shows she disregards the lives of other human beings. What's going to stop her from preying on another innocent child when she grows up?

[Iggo]

13. ...and this one...

[Arcanetrance]

18. I've tried to stay out of this debate but.

This needs to be said statutory rape laws exist for a reason. I don't care if it was a male and another male, a female and a female, a female and a male, or a male and a female. The law dictates an 18 year old can't have Sex with a 14 year old. Kaitlynn was told to stay away and didn't that's predatory behavior. She was given fair warning and chose to ignore it now there's consequences

[aquart]

24. Kaitlyn was told to stay away?

Why didn't they tell their daughter? Oh, they did, and she ignored them. Juliet ignored her parents, too. Came to a baaaaad end. Nothing like teenage hormone hell for a grand passion.

Kaitlyn is accused of statutory rape because they don't want to consider consent. It's rape by law, not by violence. Two teenagers. And two sets of ...unsatisfactory parents. But Kaitlyn's are fighting for her. The other girl? Her entire sexual identity is being denied. How does that help her? Did her parents ever reach out for any information or activities that would connect their daughter with teens her own age who were lesbians? What did they do to HELP her?

[Arcanetrance]

26. This isn't a debate on the other girl and whether her sexuality is being repressed by her parents

This is a debate on the law and one I happen to agree with given things from my own past. Now if you wish to start a subject as to whether or not the other girl is being repressed in terms of her own sexuality I would readily agree with you and you'd have my support 100%

[aquart]

30. Law is a legal issue.

We all judge on our own past. According to the OP, Kaitlyn would be a rapist if the girl were 15 or 16 or 17 depending on the exact wording of that state's law. It's TEENAGERS and that already makes it too complex for simplistic solutions.

My first reaction is that her parents' vindictive vengefulness is putting the younger girl at risk for suicide. Which they would also blame on Kaitlyn.

So you go debate getting that pound of flesh, but I can't see how this humiliating mess helps the "victim" in any way.

[Arcanetrance]

33. I don't like humiliating the victim like the parents have

Yes I will agree the law is a tad broad I'm going on the age of the girl being 14. I hope the victim does find the nurturing she needs from the right sources. I just feel an 18 year old took advantage of a 14 year old who was vulnerable from a mix of discovering her sexuality and parents not helping her

[aquart]

35. And the 18-year-old could not possibly have been in the same boat?

It's been brought out in this thread that Kaitlyn has good reason to be ashamed of her father. You think that helped her?

[Arcanetrance]

43. I'm really unsure about what kaitlynn could be feeling from her father's charges

Granted there could be some humiliation from her father's charges but I don't see that being a catalyst to be with a 14 year old girl. Maybe the better solution to the whole thing is to amend the law to include psychological tests for students being charged with statutory rape. I think that may help since I do understand just because at 18 a person is an adult not all share the same emotional maturity. In disclosure I was raped when I was 10 so sometimes that clouds my judgment on punishment and such I tend to be a tad harsher when maybe a situation like this may require a more analytical mind

[aquart]

47. Ten and 14 are not on the same planet.

Consent is also not on the same planet.

Child molesting is NOT the same as two teenagers going too far.

And a girl (or boy) who can't find acceptance...or feels unworthy of it because of family shame...among her own age group, may well feel more comfortable with someone younger.
Especially if that younger person is showing signs of attraction.

[Agschmid]

29. So did you really just reference Shakespeare in your argument?

Good god.

[aquart]

31. Juliet, the epitome of teenage sexuality?

Why wouldn't I reference her? Because she was straight? Because she got married at 13 against the wishes of her parents? How is the reference inappropriate? We don't usually know the ages of Shakespeare's heroines but we know about Juliet AND her mother.

In fact, Shakespeare's primary sources make Juliet older. Shakespeare specifically and deliberately lowered her age and pointed it out.

Does anyone believe that Juliet was Romeo's victim?

[Agschmid]

32. Okay....

Has nothing to do with gay or straight, thanks for getting that out of the way.

I'd like to take a minute to point out that was written (by shakespeare) in the 1500's when cultural norms around marriage, sex, and child bearing were quite different.

Although I do understand the cultural connotation of the story I find your analogy severely lacking.

My opinion on the Hunt case however is not developed since I have not spent enough time reading about it. But I've read enough to know this is NOT analogous to Romeo and Juliet...

“These violent delights have violent ends
And in their triump die, like fire and powder
Which, as they kiss, consume”
― William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet

[aquart]

34. Are you sure there won't be a violent end here?

Or have the suicide rates for gay teenagers dropped?

A wooing without parental consent resulting in the destruction of two families. I have no problem with the analogy. Why do you?

[aquart]

46. Interesting. Do you have a reason for believing she won't?

She's been humiliated. Told she's a rape victim. Told her consent means nothing. Told she is NOT a lesbian. Told her lover is going to jail because of her.

Now why would a 14-year-old girl attempt suicide after that?

Seriously, WHY WOULD YOU THINK SHE WON'T?

[davidpdx]

48. I read back through the thread

We actually may in principal be arguing the same points except for the suicide. If that is the case I apologize.

I agree the younger girl is being put under a lot of pressure. I certainly hope she doesn't kill herself.

[aquart]

49. So do I. Because it does get better.

But the years of hormone hell magnify everything. The intensity of feeling on an average day is overwhelming. During a mess like this? Beyond imagining.

[Agschmid]

59. Still lost on your analogy...

But yes I hope I one hurts themselves... And the right people reach out to both parties to help them get through this all.

[NaturalHigh]

40. Agreed. nt.

[oldhippie]

58. So many here want to judge each case themselves ...

.... based on their own feelings and perceptions of the individual circumstances of each case. Of, course, they will criticize anyone that comes to a different judgment. There must be laws with bright lines otherwise Judges and juries will be constantly criticized. Rape is rape. There is no acceptable rape. As many here have said in other cases, a minor cannot give consent. That's the law.

[davidn3600]

19. OK, but 15 years in prison for a high school relationship?

I'm sorry but that's freakin ridiculous.

There are people who have KILLED, and have gotten less than 5 years.

[NaturalHigh]

38. Let's be real here.

I don't think there's any chance that she is going to get fifteen years, and I don't know anybody who wants that. It's unlikely she even gets prison time at all.

[davidpdx]

39. I have no problem with you opinion

But insinuating that the younger girl is going to commit suicide or her parents will divorce is called using a crystal ball. Now if you have one, please let me know who will win the World Series and the Superbowl because I'd like to win some money.

I don't have any knowledge of the Daniel Tosh case. I am very familiar with the Steubenville case as I followed it closely (my sister went to Ohio to protest). Comparing the two cases is quite ludicrous. The girl in the Steubenville case was drugged and was taken in a car over the stateline and raped. Several people were involved in the actual rape and even more in the cover-up. I fully supported those two being punished for what they did.

[TeeYiYi]

53. Are you serious?...

re: "I find it astonishing that DU universally condemns the Steubenville rapists..."

There was nothing consensual about Steubenville.

TYY

[backscatter712]

54. *PLONK*

[LostOne4Ever]

60. +100000 (nt)

[LostOne4Ever]

61. Ridiculous

I think many here would agree with me that Kaitlyn Hunt's mother deceived all of us in her rambling Facebook post about her daughter's arrest. We were all tricked into thinking the parents of Kaitlyn's 15-year-old girlfriend wanted to ruin the life of 17-year-old promising student Kaitlyn.

Thats not the FB page and the FB page made it clear she was 18 from the beginning. You are falsely representing the examiner story as the facebook account.

The law in Florida I think doesn't allow 14 year olds to consent to sex, and left, right, OR center most Americans agree that 14 year olds are TOO YOUNG for sex. Therefore, it's ONLY LOGICAL that what Kaitlyn Hunt did (as the disgusting affidavit details) what Hunt did was: STATUTORY RAPE.

I find it astonishing that DU universally condemns the Steubenville rapists and Daniel Tosh but Kaitlyn Hunt results in divisive 100+ post threads.

Hunt can also be accurately described as a HOMEWRECKER: what she did is probably going to tear apart her "girlfriend's" family. Who knows later on if her friend's dad may divorce or commit suicide later on because of what Kaitlyn put them through???

Maybe part of the difference is one was a mutal relationship and the other case is a violent act against a women against her will. False equivalency much?

Further, if you actually read what people are saying you will see that most of us don't condone the action but we don't think it should be deserving of a felony either.

And where are you getting the homewrecker line? The younger girl did all those action of her own free will. That entire paragraph is a combination of hyperbole and accusation of things that may or may not come to pass. Not to mention that if the father divorces or "kills himself" that action responsibility falls solely on the father.

And what if once the younger girl turns 18 and she continues the relationship? Is she still a homewrecker? Will she still be responsible for IF the parents divorce? This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard from either side. Maybe your statements is so illogical that someone goes and commits suicide rather than live in a world where such illogical statements are made? You homewrecker

For the record, the story says that the younger girl turned 15 during the school year. This implies that the age difference is LESS than four years. But nope she is either 3 years or 4 years age difference! There is no in between!

[treestar]

63. These laws need to be modified

There is no way an 18 year old whose relationship was OK yesterday should turn into a "rapist" the next day turning 18.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime.

It became disproportionate because the typical perpetrator is considered unsympathetic by the public and deserving all manner of judgment and condemnation.

One of the reasons that statutory rape is underreported is because victims (who generally don't consider themselves victims) know what punishment awaits the perpetrator. In that sense, the perpetrator has more sympathy from the victim than society generally.

[cecilfirefox]

65. You make a valid point, though the homewrecking thing was a bit lawl. nt

[cliffordu]

66. Well.....first a quote:

'Who knows later on if her friend's dad may divorce or commit suicide later on because of what Kaitlyn put them through???'

Who knows if the Giants are going to win the pennant in the next 10 years.

You really had me thinking until that last speculative crap statement.