General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy Bradley Manning deserves to rot in prison
http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/why-bradley-manning-deserves-to-rot-in-prison/Snip: "Revealing the identities or identifying information of people who might suffer as a result of your revelations makes you at least partially culpable for what happens to them. Rot in jail, Mr. Manning, and may your days and nights be filled with the anguish of those you harmed."
Lots more at the link.
monmouth3
(3,871 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)He contacted the NY Times and Washington Post, who weren't interested, and then sent information to Wikileaks.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...and it's the responsibility of the publisher to edit.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Classified information is still classified information. Passing it is illegal. Period.
riqster
(13,986 posts)If he had followed them, he wouldn't be in trouble.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)With the right kind of help, he probably could have been able to pass some information on while still protecting himself at the same time. Had he been more selective of the information he shared or had gotten representation ahead of time, I think it's possible he wouldn't be facing what he's facing now.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)because it is inconvenient and messy for the chain. There is no fucking way he would have gotten farther than the brig.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Had he followed the rest of the legal whistleblower process (report to Congresscritter, etc.) he would not be in court today.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)and it is not "what he did", but "how he did it"?
I am not swayed.
My opinion is this is about hiding embarrassing, corrupt, and illegal behavior by us, our allies, and/or war contractors.
riqster
(13,986 posts)...had nothing to do with war crimes, and hurt a lot of people who were not committing war crimes.
And the hell of it is, because he exposed all the other info, the war crimes got lost in the noise.
He not only failed to do what he set out to do, but he caused harm to innocents in the process.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)daylight for 10 years or more if this route was followed, maybe never. Manning did what he did knowing there would be consequences. And thought it was important enough. It is what it is.
I don't know if anyone's life has been jeopardized yet. I do know that if we are going after people who have jeopardized lives there is a long line ahead of Manning who have skated free, even though we know their lies lead to (tens or hundreds of) thousands of deaths.
I don't dismiss the fact that Manning appears to have broken the law. I am just disgusted at the selective prosecution.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Lots of other people deserve to sit where Manning sits, and it is a crime all its own that they aren't.
atreides1
(16,090 posts)And there is no guarantee that taking it up the chain would have made any difference!
riqster
(13,986 posts)I imagine he would find that quite different.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Manning exposed war crimes and the people making money off war.
That's why he's in deep doo-doo.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)War crimes?
Document dumping? [URL=http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)as opposed to who it is not now.
boilerbabe
(2,214 posts)that's all anybody needs to know about that asshole.
riqster
(13,986 posts)But hey, it's easier to lug a flame bomb at me than to refute my point, innit?
I own my asshole-ish tendencies: in fact I have quite a few, so pointing them out required very little perception or effort on either of your parts.
How about making a valid counterargument?
frylock
(34,825 posts)the fact that you label yourself as an extreme centrist makes it easier for us to identify why it is that you're wrong.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Since all you did here was throw another (albeit smaller) flame bomb.
frylock
(34,825 posts)not going to indulge your ego by rehashing it.
riqster
(13,986 posts)I asked for substance, and you returned with insult number three, and nothing related to the topic.I can only assume you have nothing else to offer but Limbaugh-esque attacks, since that is all you have offered here.
I have read Mr. Ellsberg's writings on the topic, and although I have great respect for the man, I feel that what he did was far more focused and less damaging to those not directly involved with the matters he was blowing the whistle on (I am old enough to have read The Pentagon Papers when they came out, and I know the difference between the two cases).
Specifically, Ellsberg did not get any, say, Chinese Ethnic activists arrested because he randomly released a load of unrelated content. The material he put out was relevant and focused.
Unlike Manning.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Bradley Manning passed classified information and he was jailed. He will probably serve many years in prison.
riqster
(13,986 posts)The fact that those bastards got off scot-free doesn't mean everyone else should too.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I should have clarified that. Thanks.
riqster
(13,986 posts)It's a passion-inducing topic.
randome
(34,845 posts)But I think some leniency should be shown. He was clearly a very mixed-up kid what with his gender identity issues. And his superiors should have been aware of his state of mind and were, IMO, negligent.
Despite that, you're right, he did endanger many innocent people and perhaps caused some to lose their lives.
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[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
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riqster
(13,986 posts)Some people were (hell, some still are) calling for the death penalty. Absurd.
Prison is an appropriate punishment. Who knows, maybe he can learn from his experience and use his intellect for good in the future.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)He didn't cost any lives.
randome
(34,845 posts)The Taliban got hold of the data and vowed vengeance on those individuals. What are the odds that some of these compromised assets did NOT lose their lives?
As for the government telling us, I would think being an undercover spy means total disavowal of one's existence as a spy.
Much of Manning's trial is being held in secret. If the prosecutors need to name names, that would be a good time to do it.
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[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
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riqster
(13,986 posts)Said similar things about those she worked with in Iran.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)What a colossal mistake that was.
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)a loss of life. At this point it is a hyperbolic talking point, IMO.
riqster
(13,986 posts)If harm only = death, then very few human actions could be classed as such.
But of course, harm has a broader meaning.
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)was imprisoned, harassed or tortured because of his disclosures, take it how you will.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Articles from Amnesty and others that say otherwise.
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Keep in mind, this case goes back to 2011. That is why I provided links on the blog post, so people could remember.
All you hear these days is the meta issue: but there are concrete issues in play too. Issues like exposure and harassment are well documented from that time.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)So that the same government he's defending can monitor his calls and texts
riqster
(13,986 posts)Anyone doing anything via print or electronic media can be monitored. Your carrier of choice makes little difference.
And I'm not defending the government- I am talking about Manning and the harm he caused by the indiscriminate way he leaked.
frylock
(34,825 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)And follow the links there.
Or just google if you prefer. It is not hard to find stories on how Amnesty and other groups documented harm caused by the leaks for which Manning provided the source material.
Took me less than ten minutes to find the three I used and cross-check them.
Response to burnodo (Reply #8)
libodem This message was self-deleted by its author.
ananda
(28,873 posts)..
sibelian
(7,804 posts)is usually employed rather selectively, I have noticed...
William769
(55,147 posts)G_j
(40,367 posts)w liberty and just-us for the lying chickenhawk war criminals.
riqster
(13,986 posts)...does not let other offenders off the hook.
G_j
(40,367 posts)how our monumental hypocrisy is once again on display for the entire world to see!
disgusting
Rise Rebel Resist
(88 posts)3 years later and no harm done except to BM
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I agree with you completely, but I know from experience that you're going to bet blistered by the flame war on this.
riqster
(13,986 posts)I figured arguing a contrarian position might have such results, so I came prepared.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Sometimes, I like to pretend I'm clever enough to determine who may or may not deserve a thing also.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)My gawd they are funny, they're almost insane!!!