Does Gingrich understand what he said when he said that America

[malaise]

was founded by people who were escaping religious persecution?
Does he understand that it is the Catholics who want to impose their religious beliefs on others?

I detest all religions.

[rfranklin]

1. The founding fathers were not big on organized religion which is why....

they saw fit to keep the government out of religion and vice versa.

And they especially did not like papists!

Because many of the British colonists, such as the Puritans and Congregationalists, were fleeing religious persecution by the Church of England, much of early American religious culture exhibited the more extreme anti-Catholic bias of these Protestant denominations. Monsignor John Tracy Ellis wrote that a "universal anti-Catholic bias was brought to Jamestown in 1607 and vigorously cultivated in all the thirteen colonies from Massachusetts to Georgia."[23] Colonial charters and laws often contained specific proscriptions against Catholics. For example, the second Massachusetts charter of October 7, 1691 decreed "that forever hereafter there shall be liberty of conscience allowed in the worship of God to all Christians, except Papists, inhabiting, or which shall inhabit or be resident within, such Province or Territory."[24]

Monsignor Ellis noted that a common hatred of the Catholic Church could unite Anglican clerics and Puritan ministers despite their differences and conflicts.

Some of America's Founding Fathers held anti-clerical beliefs. For example, in 1788, John Jay urged the New York Legislature to require office-holders to renounce foreign authorities "in all matters ecclesiastical as well as civil.".[25] Thomas Jefferson wrote, "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government,"[26] and that "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."[27]

Some states devised loyalty oaths designed to exclude Catholics from state and local office.[28]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism

[JDPriestly]

32. Jefferson did not like papists either.

Catholics were despised although Maryland was, I believe, Catholic.

[krispos42]

2. Well, now it's time for the persecutees to be the persecutors!

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[DesertFlower]

3. these conservatives want to turn

this country into a christian theocracy.

[malaise]

17. They want to use every wedge issue for power

by any means necessary

[GodlessBiker]

4. I'm waiting for them to push for divorce to become illegal...

since their faith does not permit divorce.

[russspeakeasy]

9. I think they did, but the murder rate went up and donations went down.

[Enrique]

5. Newt was part of the "Ground Zero Mosque" hysteria

in case anyone might think his commitment to religious freedom is sincere:

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/08/newt-gingrich-ground-zero-mosque

In any case, I just wanted to note the role of former Speaker of the House and supposedly "serious" Republican "idea man" Newt Gingrich in all this stupid, hateful stupidness. Last week, Gingrich started making a habit of comparing the proposed "mosque" (actually a community center called the Cordoba House or Park51 project) to "putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum." I hope I don't have to explain just how offensive everything about that comment is. Gingrich is also scheduled to speak at crazy Muslim-hater (and Malcolm-X-is-Obama's-dad theorizer) Pam Geller's September 11th rally against the "mosque" project alongside Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders, who wants to ban the Koran and make Islam illegal.*

[malaise]

12. Good point

These folks only recognize their religions

[TBF]

6. Exactly -

this is what happened in part of my family (mom's side). They were Puritans who became increasingly disturbed about the direction the parish church in Halifax (Yorkshire) was taking. The final straw was the appointment of a very high church priest. A group of people from the area sailed from Bristol (England) in May of 1635 to Boston, arriving 3 months later.

And I'll be damned if it isn't happening again!

[malaise]

26. They sure are trying hard

to return to that madness

[hifiguy]

7. Ladies and Gentlemen, President James Madison:

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."

Nuff said, methinx.

[white_wolf]

10. I see your James Madison and raise you one Thomas Paine:

" I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

[hifiguy]

11. Well played, sir!

Well played, indeed.

[malaise]

15. Isn't that the truth

[malaise]

13. Excellent post

Thanks

[lunatica]

8. And when they escaped persecution they started the Salem Witch hunts

Last edited Sat Feb 11, 2012, 10:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Wasn't that wonderful?!

[malaise]

14. Freaking perfect

[liberal N proud]

16. Always persecuted - never a persecutor

They are not capable of reflecting upon their own actions.

[Rex]

18. Why would you expect him to know anything

about the issues he spouts out of his blowhole? Newt is a stupid clown. I doubt he even knows about the Council of Trent or the names of at least 5 Saints.

[white_wolf]

20. I won't lie, I can't remember much after Nicea.

I used to be Catholic so I know that because of the Creed. Seriously, though, why can a supposed "historian" be so ignorant?

[Rex]

25. I don't know and it really Grinds My Gears.

Bonus to whoever knows where that saying came from!

[malaise]

22. Good question but he sells himself as a

historian

[Rex]

24. And that pisses me off.

Newt is as much a historian as a rock on the moon. I cannot STAND it when people say he is a 'learned man'. Bullshit, he is just scum wrapped in a human shell.

[former9thward]

19. I detest religion haters.

Because they want to impose their beliefs on others. One generalization meets another.

[malaise]

23. On the contrary

I don't care who believes what as long as they leave me the fugg alone.

[former9thward]

27. You said Catholics want to force others to accept their religion.

I am from Chicago, a heavily Catholic city, and I had many, many, Catholic friends and acquaintances. They knew I was not Catholic but not one of them ever tried to encourage me to become Catholic.

[tanyev]

21. I think that's why Europe got free of religion much sooner than the U.S.

All their religious nutjobs came here. They really should thank us.

[provis99]

28. if you're referring to the Pilgrims, you're wrong.

The Pilgrims left Holland because the Dutch government was telling them to stop pushing their religion on people in Holland.
One of the first laws the Pilgrims passed in America was to uphold the persecution of Quakers by the Pilgrims in America.

America was founded on religious intolerance, not the desire to escape religious intolerance.

[justiceischeap]

30. Not true.

They also didn't agree with state-sponsored religion... They didn't want to be told to be Protestant.

That said, this country was founded on religious intolerance because they desired to escape religious intolerance. Thankfully, the Founding Father's decided to do a little something about that.

[provis99]

31. the first law the pilgrims passed was to discriminate against Quakers.

Did you not understand that part? SHOULD I SAY IT LOUDER?

[justiceischeap]

33. Did you actually read my post? nt

[provis99]

37. well, you obviously failed to read mine. TWICE.

you are now on ignore.

[justiceischeap]

38. Woohoo! I've been ignored!

I love when people announce to DU that they've ignored someone.

[Brother Buzz]

35. Get your pilgrims straight

The Separatists (Plymouth colony) was an inclusive sect and only a portion resided in Leiden, Holland, before sailing to America (the Leiden contingency had no problems with the Dutch government and vice-verse). Non-believers (Strangers) had an equal standing in the community, could own land, vote, hold office, and could worship as they chose, although there was only one official, sanctioned church. Oh, and their first legal document was the Mayflower Compact, signed thirty years before the Quakers arrived.

The Puritans (Massachusetts Bay colony) persecuted the Quakers as well as the Separatists.

[provis99]

41. you are ignorant, and you are now on ignore.

[Brother Buzz]

43. Cool Beans!

[Surya Gayatri]

29. Word! Excellent 2-sentence analysis, Malaise...

This needs to be said over and over. It's the damn Catholic PTB persecuting a minority, i.e. women of reproductive age.
SG

[Scuba]

34. I'm with you. Religion is the world's longest-running con game.

[Arugula Latte]

36. Well put.

[malaise]

40. Ditto

[WhoIsNumberNone]

39. America: Good, Everything else: Bad

That's what the Gingrich understands.

[nanabugg]

42. See how wars get started over religion! It's happening right here. nt