General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEuropean Society Shows The Right Way To Deal With Illegitimate Births
Charles Murray's at it again, in the just published, "Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010." Much of the discussion of the book has centered on Murray's statistical dissection of the white working class, particularly family breakdown as measured by births out of wedlock.
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Most European countries are above the OECD average of 35 percent (as is the U.S.). In the UK the figure is around 45 percent. Denmark is about the same. France is slightly over 50 percent. Sweden and Norway are slightly higher. Estonia, which has deep historical ties to Sweden nudges 60 percent. Iceland tops the global list with around 63 percent of children being born without benefit of clergy
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But if that were the case, Europe would be a festering sinkhole of social decay. That may be the view of hard-right opinion formers in Washington and Republican presidential candidates but it isn't the reality. Prisons aren't bulging over here (well, maybe in Britain, the nation whose views on crime and punishment and whose economy most closely mirror that of the U.S.). Vast vats of methamphetamine aren't being cooked up in the backyards of the working class.
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The idea of the traditional family has changed enormously in the last half-century, but so has the traditional idea of work. The absence of work is likely to trigger enormous strains in the lives of every family unit, whether blessed in the eyes of God, legalized by the state or existing as some acknowledged personal bond by having a child out of wedlock. In a way, illegitimacy is a pure expression of libertarianism, not liberalism. Work is the source of social cohesion. It is what holds families and societies together. If you take work away from someone - regardless of his class - his family is in for hard times. In extreme cases, where whole communities lose the source of employment, that will be the reason for social breakdown, not illegitimacy of children. Unless, and here is the big difference between the U.S. and Europe, you have a large enough social safety net to ameliorate the terror of joblessness. Most of the countries I mention all have higher unemployment rates than America. And that is not just in the current economic crisis, historically European unemployment rates have been higher than those in America.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/coming-apart-how-the-european-experience-of-illegitimate-births-is-different-than-americas-2012-2
xchrom
(108,903 posts)madrchsod
(58,162 posts)..two of my children are illegitimate. my three grandchildren are illegitimate as is my great grand child. my friends have illegitimate babies.
i wonder if we`ll ever get past that term.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)should their be prison time for them?
should they be denied rights to property ownership, voting, etc.?
i mean you are advocating that people call them "illegitimate" and that means not lawful.
well, then, what's the penalty you would like these children to suffer?
you must want to use the word for a reason, let's hear what it is.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)1: not recognized as lawful offspring; specifically: born of parents not married to each other
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegitimate
As far as I can tell, the only legal rights that the child is deprived of is the legal right to support by their father, unless the father voluntarily accepts responsibility or unless there is a court order establishing paternity and responsibility.
In some cases, the child's father may not be named on the birth certificate or be known to the child. This will pose a problem for establishing geneology and family medical histories.
But to be clear, I suppose that we could discuss differences between the situation of "children born to married parents" and "children born to unmarried parents".
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)or just shrug your shoulders and blame the dictionary.
let's take a look at which one you chose!
muriel_volestrangler
(101,322 posts)It used to signify that, since the child did not come from a marriage, he or she would not inherit anything by default from the father. But the law in England now is that any child inherits equally (if the father is not on the birth certificate, then parentage might have to be proved in other ways).
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)If the parents have the opportunity to work and get incomes to provide for their children and to establish a home, it doesn't matter whether they are legally married or not.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)I agree. Illegitimate to who and by what standard. Which means the "legitimate" children are... more.... legitimate?
FC Fatherless Child No.. not logical.
MO Mother Only
Genuine Children
I don't know... somehow legalise, which this is, becomes a social and moral brand.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)A marriage certificate will not make your spouse love you. It will not make your spouse take care of your children. It will not make your spouse respect you. It will not make your spouse stay by your side.
Society fetishizes a piece of paper. That's all that it is, a piece of paper.
I know what it's like to be married to someone who doesn't honestly give a damn whether I lived or died. It's traumatic and highly unpleasant.