Military helicopters overhead in the middle of LA.

[JDPriestly]

We live in a residential neighborhood near the center of LA.

Just now, about 12 military helicopters flew over our heads. The noise was deafening. There is no justification for harassing city dwellers in this way. We are not in the middle of an insurrection. We have no huge crime problem (at least not compared to past problems). This is simply an annoying waste of money.

We have enough air traffic over our homes, enough police helicopters and freeway traffic. We do not need this noise pollution. Why is our government spending tax money like that when we don't have enough money for health care or education?

We simply do not need those military aircraft over the City of LA.

If Obama wants Los Angeles residents to vote for him in November, he needs to get those helicopters and all that military noise out of the city. This is where people live -- peaceful people. We have to contend with too much noise and commotion as it is. I'm not normally a get off my lawn oldster, but this is just too much. President Obama, get your military trash out of my airway.

[tabatha]

1. How frequently does it happen?

We have them frequently in our skies - they are apparently on practice runs.

[Liberal_in_LA]

10. LAPD choppers fly over head a lot

[tabatha]

11. I meant military helicopters.

[JDPriestly]

19. Do you live in a crowded city?

I can understand having occasional military aircraft overhead in a small town or rural area. But we are talking LA here -- high rise buildings, etc. It's just crazy to have those huge helicopters in air above our city. They were flying so low that we could see them very clearly.

[tabatha]

24. Half of the year, airplanes fly overhead to get to the airport.

The other half, they come in from the opposite side.

I agree helicopters are annoying, and the military frequency is about 1 or 2 a month, but I find police and ambulance sirens more annoying, especially if they are associated with wild fires.

However, I would hate to live in LA.

[MineralMan]

28. I do. I live in St. Paul, MN.

At least a dozen times a year a flight of cargo helicopters flies over my neighborhood. They're part of the National Guard. They're based at the Downtown Airport in Saint Paul. I love to see them fly over, and always go outside and watch. We have high rise buildings too, right next to the airport. Imagine that.

[JSnuffy]

31. I'll be sure to wave next time...

... I pass by with my "military trash"

[JDPriestly]

21. This is a very new development.

We are wondering why they have started this. It is not a good sign.

[Codeine]

49. The iron fist of Big Helicopter tightens its grip on the City of Angels.

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:59 PM - Edit history (1)

A fearful people tremble before the unleashed power of these twelve mighty Whirlibirds of Fascism. Hearken and hear our cries, oh Lord!

[Sheepshank]

71. lol...the very situation for which "clutching pearls" was created. n/t

[Sheepshank]

72. lol...the very situation for which "clutching pearls" was created. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

97. "Clutching Pearls" is OVER!

...do you hear me? OVER!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

51. Recently it was announced that there were some training exercises being conducted in LA

[pinboy3niner]

54. The news link is in #20

And MineralMan posted the news link about today's movement in #30.

[JDPriestly]

63. What are they training for?

That's what I think we should be told. We do not live near an airport or an Air Force base, nowhere near any such installation. Why are these helicopters flying over downtown LA? Is it intended to intimidate? Are we preparing to go to war with the homeboys? What in the world is this about?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

74. Two different links have been posted in this thread. I suggest you read them

One about the earlier training, the other about today being aircraft movement.

If its the former, its called MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain). The military does not have a city environment to practice it, so with extensive coordination, some sites in the LA were used. It is not clear if today was more of the same or not.

If its the latter, the reason they were over Los Angeles is due to LAX traffic patterns. Helo have altitude and rage limitations. To get from where they were to where they needed to go, civilian air traffic control routed them over the city. If you need to a visual reference for that, I suggest you look at the LAX Terminal Area Chart on http://vfrmap.com/

Speaking as a pilot, no one wants to fly low over cities for safety reasons. No where to go if you have a problem.

In either case its pretty clear that no one is planning to go to war with the home boys or intimidate anyone.

[JDPriestly]

76. "No where to go if there is a problem" is precisely the problem.

Where in the world would our military need to engage in a city environment like that of LA -- other than in LA? You can laugh all you like but this is not a good sign.

When OWS was ousted from various cities, the police used military-like techniques. In my opinion, we have far too much militarized policing in our cities. It has been getting worse and worse over the past 30 years, mostly for purposes of drug busts from what I can tell.

The problem is that these maneuvers cost a lot of money and are inappropriate for urban policing. In what city in the world would the skills learned in LA help our military? There really aren't many urban environments like ours. I do not like the militarization of urban policing. It's not a good thing.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

79. Right now I am leaning towards ATC direction

Moving helos along the coast and that is where ATC told them to fly. In makes the most sense from an aviation perspective. In peacetime even the DoD has to do what the FAA says.

If you are concerned about the previous MOUT training, consider that the US is not the only city in the world with high rises. Sooner or later, there may be fighting in them. Look back at Beirut before Lebanon became a free fire zone.

Don't blame the military for the police imitating them. Take that to your local and state elected officials.

[appleannie1]

152. Three C 130 cargo planes fly directly over my house once a week. They are

so low they almost brush my chimney. My whole house trembles. I am not near any airport but understand they are flying between their base in Youngstown, Ohio and a base in eastern Pennsylvania. I certainly don't get paranoid about it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

160. There are designated low level training routes for the military

You may want to ask a local aviator if that is the case for you. They are marked on aviation charts.

[krispos42]

204. Okay, that link is awesome!

[TheWraith]

2. No offense, but this is a silly and pointless thread.

Sometimes when you're moving military aircraft, they have to fly over someplace. Usually that place has inhabitants. I used to get convoys of 3-5 C-130 transport planes coming over my house heading for the Niagara Falls Air Reserve station, but I never thought it was worth having a fit over, even though the noise was pretty impressive.

[JDPriestly]

13. We are not that near any bases. Where would they

fly to from here? No. This is a very recent development, and there is no explanation or excuse for it that I am aware of. I first noticed it a few weeks ago. But that time there were fewer planes. Today the noise was just horrifying.

[LanternWaste]

17. Have you made inquiries? I imagine that if not classified, U.S. Army Public Affairs

"Where would they fly to from here? No. This is a very recent development, and there is no explanation or excuse for it that I am aware of..."

Have you made inquiries? I imagine that if not classified, U.S. Army Public Affairs would be the most likely starting point to assist you with your questions.

[pinboy3niner]

20. What you first noticed probably was the joint military training exercises downtown

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/NEWS.html?article=9653697#.Tx5IUdRDkRU.twitter

[tabatha]

26. Yeah, I guess if there were an emergency and the military screwed up

then there would be another barrage of complaints.

[JDPriestly]

65. What are they training to do?

This is ominous coming in the weeks following OWS's ouster from downtown.

This appears to me to be an illegal effort to chill speech. Is this why the President wanted the NDAA to give him the authority to use troops in the U.S. Why did they decide to do away with the posse comitatus act. This is yet another step toward fascism and I do not like it.

[Sheepshank]

73. It's coming closer on the heels of SGK attempting to defund PP

why are you not drawing some rampant, disassociated parallel with that activity?

Even closer on the Heels of Obama announcing that churches do not have provide BCP for their employees...perhaps there is about the be a papal massacre?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

75. See Post 74

It is not an attempt to chill speech or anything else.

[renie408]

22. We live in the country, so we actually think it's pretty cool when..

they fly over our farm or our house. We are in upstate SC really, REALLY close to the NC border about thirty minutes south of Charlotte. A few times a year big helicopter convoys will fly over either our farm or our house. We always go outside and gawk. They do fly a lot lower than other air traffic, probably staying out of the way.

[bluerum]

3. Yea. Obama knows where every military aircraft is at any given time.

He should just get on his military band radio and tell them to knock it off.

[JDPriestly]

14. Obama is the commander in chief.

Military helicopters being flown over a city the size of LA in broad daylight when there is not war and no danger is not necessary. You cannot imagine how noisy it is already in the air above LA. These military copters just add the last straw. It's too much. And yes, Obama should know if military aircraft are being flown over LA. It is a big deal. It affects a lot of people. This is a densely populated area.

I don't think they fly military aircraft that low over New York City. I don't believe they do.

[Codeine]

37. "Affects a lot of people"?

No it doesn't. You and all your fellow Angelenos will survive a dozen choppers buzzing past just fine.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

53. Its not a big deal, and speaking as a pilot, they do not want to be there

It is most probably the training exercises. Chill and let Obama deal with real issues.

[cherokeeprogressive]

150. What if the helicopters were being moved from one base to another? Truck them?

[EX500rider]

187. "Obama is the commander in chief....."

And you think he should know where every one of the thousands of US military helo's are at any time?!

[treestar]

201. How do you know what is necessary?

Do you care about anything other than convenience? I don't like big noises, but I would not assume such a thing was being done lightly and think only of the annoyance first.

[SunsetDreams]

4. Considering there is an Air Force base there,

since 1962...I'm not surprised.

[msanthrope]

8. "Forget it, he's rolling." nt

[JDPriestly]

15. An Air Force base in downtown LA? I don't think so.

[MineralMan]

29. Uh, yes. There's one at LAX. You can read about it here:

http://www.losangeles.af.mil/

You didn't know that? And you live in LA? Hmph!

Further, every time Air Force One lands at LAX, a flight of helicopters flies to the airport for security reasons.

[EFerrari]

35. LAX is no where near downtown L.A. nt

[MineralMan]

38. Really? By helicopter? Look at a map, for goodness sake.

The most likely source for military helicopters over LA is Camp Pendleton. It's a ways away, too, but not that far if you're flying a military helicopter, and there are dozens and dozens of them there. Several fly escort every time Air Force One lands at LAX. Are you really that confused about how far things are from LAX. In a copter, the whole of Los Angeles is just minutes from LAX. See a map. LAX is about 10 miles from downtown Los Angeles. Aircraft fly from one place to another, you know. 10 miles is nothing, and we don't know where in the Greater Los Angeles area this poster is located anyhow.

Are you offended by military aircraft in your vicinity? Why?

[EFerrari]

41. I don't have to look at a map. I lived there.

And have to say, these snarky, bullying posts add nothing to DU.

[MineralMan]

43. And so did I. I know exactly where LAX is in relationship to

downtown LA. In a helicopter it's just a few minutes flight time.

As for the snarky, bullying posts, I will bow to you in admiration.

[JDPriestly]

78. Mineral Man, Camp Pendleton is a long way from LA.

I pass it when I got to San Diego. No, these planes were not flying downtown in LA because of anything to do with Camp Pendleton.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

84. Actually you cannot say that with any certainty

ATC may have vectored them there to avoid LAX traffic

[JDPriestly]

131. They were flying north to south over our house. No they were not

avoiding LAX traffic. We get LAX traffic overhead but it flies one plane at a time. This was 12 helicopters in formation. My husband says they were Black Hawks.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

137. Have you even looked at the aviation chart I linked to earlier?

If you did, you would have seen the North/South routes inland of LAX used to avoid the LAX traffic. That would have been the preferred route for exactly that kind of traffic.

[JimmyT]

166. Edwards AFB is just north of LA

Camp Pendleton is just south of LA. Twentynine Palms is just east of LA. LA is surrounded by military installations.

The helicopters may have been at an Airshow. They may be new machines being rotated to their new base. They may be aircraft that just got flown in back from Iraq or Afghanistan and were flying from Edwards AFB back to Camp Pendleton.

Did it really ruin your day so much that you've gotta make a big issue about something so small?

[MineralMan]

98. Planes? I thought they were helicopters.

As I said, there is a helicopter escort for President Obama when he comes to LA, for security reasons. Also, they have been doing urban area training with helicopters. To fly from Camp Pendleton to Los Angeles in a military helicopter is a matter of less than 20 minutes. That is not a long way. It's not even a big deal. They do it all the time in training, and fly much farther than that in training and in operations.

There was a reason for their being there. I'm sure they're sorry they frightened you, but that's not a reason not to do whatever mission they were on.

[JDPriestly]

132. Camp Pendleton is South of here.

The helicopters flew in from the North and flew South. There were 12 of them, and they flew in formation. The noise was deafening. We don't live all that far from a freeway, so when I say the noise was deafening, it was truly beyond acceptable. 12 of those huge Black Hawk helicopters. My husband was a child on the ground in Europe with Americans flying bombers overhead during the day and the British flying them at night, and he got up to see what was going on. The noise was not to be believed.

There was no emergency, and this should not have happened.

[sabrina 1]

58. I agree, re the unnecessary 'snarky' posts.

[Bonobo]

116. But Sabrina... he "marched with Martin Luther King"! nt

[sabrina 1]

118. I cannot imagine MLK engaging in the kind of behavior I have seen on DU

recently. I can't imagine him joining a swarm of people for the purpose of mocking, another human being, even someone he disagreed with . I doubt he would have found much 'fun' in doing so, having been on the other side of that for so long himself.

He was from all I have read, a person who conducted himself towards others according to what he preached. I guess you have to really listen to what he said to be able to follow his example. And you didn't have to actually be there. His message is still so relevant if we ever want a truly just society.

Maybe that's why when ever I have witnessed this swarm behavior online, I don't think we are all that much closer to MLK's hopes for a truly equitable society. 'The other', seems human beings always need to create an 'other' for some reason. Which is after all, what MLK was fighting so hard against

[DisgustipatedinCA]

119. Correct. Civil rights icon. ;)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

56. But crossing the LAX airspace may require that they go inland

While I still believe that it is most likely associated with the previously discussed exercises, formations are often taken a bit off the normal routes by Air Traffic Control.

[treestar]

203. LA is one big, huge downtown

It does not have to be in Central Downtown LA to be in a densely packed area (which it is).

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. That base has no runways or assigned aircraft

The Helos are either Marine or Army any way.

The original poster is so wrapped up in their indignation, they did not say what service or provide squadron markings which could have easily cleared this up.

[JDPriestly]

80. My husband said they were Blackhawks.

LA is noisy. If we even noticed them, it means they were noisy beyond belief -- and they were.

It was like we were being attacked. Both my husband, an Air Force veteran, and I rushed out of the house. We've ignored police chases, crashes at the corner and many, many planes and helicopters. This was just beyond the pale.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

83. Its looking more like it was ATC orders at this point

Look at the chart link I posted for you earlier.

Note that the Navy also operates similar helos and calls them SeaHawks, but large formations of them are quite rare.

[MineralMan]

101. Yes. I know that the AFB in Los Angeles has no planes,

but the poster said there was no Air Force Base in Los Angeles. There has been one there since the 1960s. I went to it in 1966 to get a paycheck when I was home in Southern California on leave between assignments. Very nice people staffing it, too.

The choppers were probably based in Camp Pendleton, but could have been at several other Southern California bases, too. They had some official reason to fly over that area. Of that, I'm quite certain. Not too many joy rides for military helicopters.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

104. Not if they are Blackhawks

Seahawks maybe...

[MineralMan]

105. Yes. Well, we don't actually know what kind of helicopters

they were. Anyhow, some military helicopters flew over L.A. It made the news. They were there last month, too, doing training exercises. What these were doing, I don't know, but they certainly weren't trying to intimidate the residents there. Of that I'm certain.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

109. My take is that it was a squadron deploying based on the number of aircraft

and that they were flying a FAA directed course. What kind and where they were going is impossible to know based on what has been posted. The details were too sketchy...not even direction.

[MineralMan]

110. Yes, that's a definite possibility.

They were doing some urban training last month that involved military helicopters, so this could also be more of that. Since we don't even know where this flyover occurred or much of anything else, there's not a lot that can be said. It did make the local news there in LA, though. There's a link somewhere in the thread that I posted.

They're gone now, though, apparently, so I guess they completed whatever it was they were doing. There's a national guard unit in the Twin Cities that often flies around 6 Chinooks over my vicinity, usually at fairly low altitudes. It's a treat to hear them when they do. Loud, but a nice sound. Still making that old chopper, I understand, and it's still doing duty all over the world. A great design, apparently.

[JDPriestly]

77. LAX is about 20 miles from downtown LA.

We get planes flying in and out, but not low-flying like these. No. Trust me. These 12 helicopters did not belong above my house.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

81. They do if the FAA sent them along that route

Have you looked at the aviation charts? They could help you to understand much of this.

[JDPriestly]

66. There is no air force base in downtown L.A.

I've lived here a long time, and this is a new development and not a good one.

[icymist]

5. Are they going to film more episodes of 'Chuck'?

I liked watching Chuck. That was a fun show.

[msanthrope]

6. I think you should call Congress. RIGHT FUCKING NOW !!!1111!!111

This might be the most pointless vanity thread on this site, ever.

[CherokeeDem]

7. Oh my goodness....

How possibly long could the noise have lasted? Less than five minutes? You should live in Miami. The Miami-Dade police helicopters would sometimes fly over forever if they were on a search...

Me...I love seeing military aircraft...a Chinook flew over my workplace as I was going to my car a couple of days ago...noisy..yep...cool...absolutely!

[JDPriestly]

16. Oh, we have police helicopters all the time, especially on weekend nights.

This was entirely different. The police helicopters, as you know, make enough noise to make you miserable. These helicopters made enough noise to make you deaf. They were there only a short time, but, even though we are desensitized to the noise because it's there all the time (there is a helicopter overhead right now), it was just incredibly loud.

[Codeine]

40. The sound of unusual aircraft always gets me running outside

to see what is overhead. I love aircraft in all varieties.

[MineralMan]

47. Yup. I heard the sound of a four-engine piston-driven aircraft

last year. I ran out, and there was a B-17G flying less than 1000' above my house, headed on approach to the downtown St. Paul airport. WooHoo. It was on display there over a weekend. Sadly, that was the one that crashed less than two weeks later and was destroyed.

Since my father was a B-17 pilot, seeing one always gives me a thrill. Besides, it was really loud and the sound was unmistakable.

[MineralMan]

9. Oh, my...did that nasty President Obama order

helicopters to fly over your house? That's just teddiboo. I'll call him this very afternoon and insist that he call you and get your permission before that ever happens again. Yes, I will.

[Ruby the Liberal]

12. I used to live in the path of 2 NAS

I have had C5s slow roll overhead where I thought my house was going to come apart, nail by nail.

Amazing how deafening they can be, but not sure there is much you can do about it (or find it cause/effect on an election).

[JDPriestly]

18. Talk "lording it over" the common folks. That's what those

helicopters are about. Los Angeles is surrounded by miles and miles of desert. There is no reason for flying those kinds of helicopters with their incredible noise over L.A. Not even for a few minutes.

We are going to start timing all the overhead plane traffic. Do you understand how much of the poor health and stress of modern life is due to the excessive air traffic at low altitudes. It isn't something we should be so willing to put up with.

Police helicopters are bad enough, but these helicopters were quite different. Unbelievably loud. I have never heard anything like it. My husband and I ran out of the house. It sounded like the planes would crash at any minute.

[tabatha]

27. The worst experience I ever had was in Fort Worth

when I was on a business trip and staying in a hotel, and a B52 took off over the hotel - the hotel was under the flight path. I thought it was a plane crashing. I have never heard such a loud noise so low.

I got used to the take-offs after that, but was happy to get the hell out of there.

[MineralMan]

34. And then there are dozens and dozens of Marine helicopters at

Camp Pendleton. That's a short flight away, and that's probably where they originated. I'm sure the base commander there will call to apologize for spoiling your day if you send him an outraged letter of complaint. That's what I'd do, for sure.

[sabrina 1]

60. So these are the new DU community standards. Make childish remarks to a DUer

who is reporting something that clearly was upsetting to her. Rather than maybe, have a discussion about it?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

62. The OP is not interested in discussions

False drama seems to be their approach in this thread, and yes that will get ridiculed, here and IRL.

[sabrina 1]

64. And you know what is in the OP's mind, how? Are you familiar with her at all?

Has it occurred to you that this might be someone who is genuinely frightened by military planes flying over her home? Or would it not matter eg, if it was say, an elderly person living alone so long as we can have fun at their expense?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

67. Their words speak for themselves

Clearly you have not read all of their posts in this thread...come back when you do

[sabrina 1]

89. I am familiar with the OP's posts on DU for a long time now.

And frankly, the kind of responses we see on DU to anything that someone doesn't agree with, are pretty childish and possibly hurtful to people although that no longer seems to matter here. Considering all the lectures we get regarding Community Standards, some from the very same people who engage in this kind of behavior, I would have thought they might try to abide by their own standards.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

93. After my last post I have taken a different approach

I am/have tried to explain to the OP what it mostly likely was and why it is nothing to be concerned about. She chooses not to understand or review pertinent documents.

[sabrina 1]

124. I leave such tactics as 'ridicule' and 'mockery' to the far right. I believe we on the left

are more evolved than to have to sink to such behavior. Generally people on the left take into account that we never know what the human being on the other side of the screen might be going through. Even when we do not like what someone says.

But that's just me.

I speak only for myself.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

139. You clearly have not been on a college campus in some time

The posts were irrational and there was no interest in considering alternative or rational explanations. I would consider that right wing behavior, YMMV.

[sabrina 1]

144. I've been on a college campus many times recently. Not sure what that is supposed

mean. I will say this, I see far more mature behavior there, in fact, far more among the kindergartners and first graders I teach, than I see in online forums.

Sure there are still the good old frat boys and the rightwing morons on college campuses who think that taunting and mocking others is fun, but this is not a college campus and it is not a rightwing forum which is why that kind of behavior is so remarkable when it occurs here. Iow, you don't expect to see it here.

When I want to see it, I go back to my old online hangout which has been mostly taken over by rightwingers. There I expect to see this kind of thing and I am never disappointed. Just sad to see so little empathy among people on the left. That of course, takes strength, something lacking altogether on the right.

[Joe the Revelator]

156. You sure must like it up there on your high horse....

Seems pretty hypocritical to me, given some of your own posts in this thread.....

[MineralMan]

95. Childish? I explained where there are military

helicopters stationed near Los Angeles and how they are used. Perhaps you should check your definitions.

[sabrina 1]

123. I expressed MY opinion, which remains, the behavior of swarming a longtime Democrat

and DUer with insulting and dismissive comments, is, and I am being kind, childish. That is MY opinion. Which as we are often reminded of, I am entitled to.

[A HERETIC I AM]

140. On the other hand.....

Perhaps the "swarming" is a result of an absurd reaction to what is a common occurrence for many millions of Americans and the outrage expressed by the OP for an incident which lasted at the MOST 2 minutes is tantamount to thinking some nefarious corporation is going to farm the water on the moon and bring it back here and sell it.

It deserves to be insulted and dismissed because it is ridiculous.

[sabrina 1]

143. 'It'?? We are talking about a person. Thank you for proving my point.

Progressives generally care more about people and rarely refer to them as 'it'. The only good thing about threads like this is what they reveal. They can be very enlightening.

[A HERETIC I AM]

146. Oh Jesus Christ on a fucking street corner selling candied apples!

By "it" I was referring to the post.

For fucks sake.

How's the weather up there on that incredibly high horse, anyway?


I'm so sorry that I can't bring myself to give more than a half of a crap that someone in suburbia was upset because a few helicopters flew over her house.

Some people - actually many millions of Americans have this sort of thing happen all the time. I find it amusing that someone - ANYONE - would get so bent out of shape over 2 minutes of noise that they would post a thread about it on DU.

Then to have people like you play that bullshit "Progressives generally care more" canard as if I am somehow not progressive enough in your eyes now that I have made it clear I think the OP is in need of a good shot, a toke and time to lighten the fuck up.

Stupid, dopey, wavy smiley right backatya!

[Joe the Revelator]

157. This post is amazing.....well said.

[Kaleko]

158. Asking to consider that there's an actual living human being

on the other end of our posts has nothing to do with sitting on an incredibly high horse. Unless they're buried to the gills in deep shit, people don't perceive that as talking down.

[LanternWaste]

213. I imagine many people consider themselves wise enough

"It deserves to be insulted ..."

I imagine many people consider themselves wise enough to have absolute knowledge of what may or may not deserve to be ridiculed. I also imagine that the truly wise maintain silence rather than ridicule, and those who merely believe themselves wise are among the first to rationalize ridicule and vulgarity.



I'm quite certain that you believe you are indeed wise enough to know who deserves what, and will post-hoc rationalize your ridicule.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

59. Actually there is a good reason for them to be there...or they wouldn't be there

Pilots do not like flying over places like Los Angeles at lower altitudes for safety reasons. So if they are there, the two most likely reasons are:
- Planned and announced exercises
- ATC sent them there

The most unlikely reason is that Obama is lording it over you

[A HERETIC I AM]

135. Unbelievable.

Truly. Your post and this thread you put up is ...well...hard to believe. Hard to believe in that you are so bleeding outraged over something that lasted...what? A minute? 120 seconds?

How long have you lived in California, anyway? You live in a state that is literally CRAWLING with military installations and you are surprised and upset because you got flown over by a few Blackhawks?

Jesus Christ on a pickle barrel.


"Unbelievably loud. I have never heard anything like it"

Come up to where I used to live in Palmdale. Hang out just north of the runway in Fresno. Drive the backroads near Fairfield.

"We are going to start timing all the overhead plane traffic.
Yeah. You do that. And after you log it all, pass it on to the authorities. And they will say ..."SO WHAT?"

Do you understand how much of the poor health and stress of modern life is due to the excessive air traffic at low altitudes.
Oh, bullshit. Again, how long have you lived in LA? Damned good thing you didn't live there from the 40's through the 60's. They were turning out a fighter plane about every 10 minutes in that town during WWII and the overflights from all the post war development were commonplace. You would have been useless.

"It isn't something we should be so willing to put up with.

So...does this happen every day? Or is this the first time in a long while or ever?

Lighten the fuck up, admire the skill involved in flying one of those things, be happy they are still made in the US (Blackhawks are built by Sikorsky, based in CT) plug your ears for 90 seconds and...


GET THE FUCK OVER IT, ALREADY.

[Kaleko]

161. It's you who comes off as far more outraged

than warranted by this OP. How about taking your own advice by lightening up and getting over it already, eh?

[Whisp]

141. lemme guess... somebody stole your sweetroll. nt

[backwoodsbob]

170. i love that game nt

[Whisp]

178. come to Gaming group.

we talk about it there a bit.
you can add more talk.

[rufus dog]

23. I ask this question based upon personal experiences

Was there any dope smoking going on?

[renie408]

25. High five!

[FSogol]

32. Duzy! Obama must of eaten all of the Doritos too. n/t

[JDPriestly]

82. We outgrew that some 50 years ago so not in this house.

And I can't imagine using Blackhawks to catch drug smugglers or close marijuana shops. Makes no sense.

Why would our government be training Blackhawk helicopter pilots for urban environments like LA. In the wake of the aggressive closures of OWS and the NDAA, I do not think this is a joke. Just wait.

[Tarheel_Dem]

147. Ding! Ding! Ding!

[MineralMan]

30. Here's a news story explaining what happened today:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8539394

Amazing. I Googled 'Military helicopters Los Angeles' without the quotes and that story just popped right up. Isn't Google wonderful?

[JDPriestly]

85. MineralMan, if you read the article, you know that I was not the only

one who was terrified. This is not normal. And it is not right.

Planes can easily move from one place to the other over the desert areas around LA or over the Pacific Ocean. No, this is more significant because of its effect on those of us here than anything else.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

92. There was nothing wrong or worth getting terrified over

This were helo, not planes. They have altitude and range limitations. Presumptively they went where the FAA sent them, that include course and altitude. They may not have been able to go around to the north, and they have to avoid LAX and other airport traffic. You are aware that there are other airports in your area, all with airspace restrictions

If you don't look at the charts to understand the airspace, you have *nothing* to continue to complain about. Your ex-USAF husband should be able to read them.

[MineralMan]

96. You're terrified by military helicopters?

Why? They're not going to attack you. They're just going to make noise. And then you blame Obama for them being there? Sorry, but this just doesn't make any sense.

[Codeine]

130. Why the heck would helicopters terrify you?

Honestly? I can't imagine why you would find that scary.

[treestar]

206. It is "not right" to ever be "terrified?"

Imagine how much more terrifying things have happened to other people! You knew you are in the US and basically safe and that the most expensive military protects you! You knew there was no attack. Even if there was, those are set there to counteract it!

This is rank ingratitude.

I wonder if you are one of those ranting on about Afghanistan or Iraq? Imagine the terror people there experience daily and for years! How can you expect sympathy for this?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

99. Most emphatically. You can find out fascinating things with Google

Damning things too.

[MineralMan]

106. I see. Would you care to elaborate?

What damning things? I know I found out that a presidential candidate in 2008 has a son who once strangled a dog. Things like that?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

112. Begone

[MineralMan]

113. No, thanks. You're the one who stepped in and posted

something irrelevant that was not at all related to the thread. I asked for more information. You tell be to "Begone." I'm not sure what's going on here, but I do know that you don't get to tell me to leave a thread I've been active in. Not today, and not any other day.

[Bonobo]

127. Probably more like this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2705446

[Cali_Democrat]

155. He was a freeper?

The same guy?

[Old and In the Way]

164. He's obviously not a FReeper.

He may have posted there, but if you read what he says, he's more of an anti-Freeper. He communicates in grammatically correct English and writes whole paragraphs. His points are pretty reasonable...except about Bush - he may not have been Satan, but he was a war criminal.

[Cali_Democrat]

168. I see your point. n/t

[MineralMan]

165. I used to have a link to that thread in my profile.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2705446

Since I have used the same screen name on all political forums, I knew that people would find my posts on that site, so I posted that link in the name of transparency. I don't list the link any longer. It's been a very long time since 2006, and it's not really relevant any longer. Yes, I posted at Free Republic for four years. Mostly, I posted pro-science and anti-bigotry posts. Immediately after I left, following the posting of that particular post as a GBCW post, I posted at a few other political forums, and one forum that supported science and evolution, despite most of its members being conservatives.

In 2008, I stopped all attempts to influence conservatives to think more clearly. At that point, I joined DU, because it actually was about what I was about. I stopped all efforts to communicate with conservatives. That was always a lost cause. These days, and for some time, the only political forum I post on is DU. I'm not trying to convince conservatives of anything any longer.

So, from time to time, someone brings up the fact that I posted on FR as if it were something new and shocking. It's not. It's been over five years since I posted on that site, and my reasons for posting on that site were to attempt to convince the members there that they were wrong. All of my posts there are visible, still, for anyone who wants to search for them. They need to be read in context, not as individual posts, to see what I was doing there. That seems like a waste of time to me. Since I joined DU in 2008, I've posted thousands of posts here. They represent my point of view quite clearly.

I've always been a Democrat. I've never voted for a Republican in my life. My political position is left of center. My philosophy is far left of center, but I'm a pragmatic kind of guy - one who believes that movement should be toward the left but that it is impossible in this country to make a sudden leap to the left. So, I'm an Obama supporter and an advocate of electing Democrats over Republicans every time you vote, even if a Democrat who can win may not be as progressive as you might like. The Republican will almost certainly be more conservative. Politics is movement and in this country movement is gradual.

So, yes, I did post at Free Republic several years ago. I do not post there now. I have not posted there for over five years. I gave up trying to change minds there.

As many times as are necessary, I'll explain this.

[Old and In the Way]

173. If this was typical of your posts...how did you last 4 years?

Seems like the forum takes no chances on any posters there...if you go against the consensus on any issue, it is grounds for a ZOT. Seriously, I am amazed that you could have survived in that paranoid fever swamp for 4 years. I lasted 6 posts before I got the boot. I tried to simply inject contrary ideas without insulting anyone...but I guess that was just too much of a threat to the hive to be sustainable.

The level of discourse there sure has changed - it would appear that JimRob has imposed a 2 sentence limit on all posts. Is the platform so old that that the place will topple over if too many words are contained in one thread? Or is the typical poster there unable to string more than 2 coherent sentences together without triggering a brain seizure?

[MineralMan]

174. No, it wasn't at all typical of my posts.

At that time, it wasn't so hard to stay there. You just had to avoid some specific statements and keep your head down a little. I avoided politics most of the time and addressed things like creationism, blatant bigotry, religious issues, and other things like that. When I wrote that final post, I knew I'd get tossed. But, I was leaving anyhow, since I had finally come to the conclusion that I was doing no good and that the site was getting more and more over the top.

[Bonobo]

181. You say "I am not a troll and not not a liberal." and I'd like to know why.

Are you a liar? Were you lying then?

"I've also been called a troll, a liberal, a DUer, and much, much worse. I'm none of those things."

Of course, you are under no obligation to answer. This isn't an inquisition. But as long as you feel comfortable talking about it, I'd like to know if you were lying then or if you really were not a liberal and not a troll.

Do you still deny being a liberal? And if so, what is wrong with liberals?

[MineralMan]

183. Liberal is a label.

I am a progressive Democrat, who is philosophically a socialist. Liberal has lost its meaning as a label. Classic liberalism is no longer what people mean by it. I stopped using it when Gingrich turned it into a dirty word.

I am a Democrat.

What do you call yourself?

You ask if I am a liar...I am not. I applied a narrow definition to the word. I am not what I consider to be a liberal. I'm to the left of that description. It has lost its meaning.

Why are you continuing to ask these questions? That's my question.

See this thread, where I explain it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/124044382

The thread we are in is not about me. The one above is.

[Bonobo]

179. Why did you deny being a liberal. Do you think a liberal is a bad thing? nt

[MineralMan]

182. Because that's not what I call myself. I'm a progressive Democrat, who

is philosophically a socialist. I'm not a classic liberal.

I'm sure you don't think I'm a liberal either.

It's a label. I choose another one. What do you call yourself?

And why are you asking this question twice in a thread that is not about me?

[Bonobo]

184. I call myself a traditional Democrat.

I don't know wtf other people that call themselves democrats are these days, but I am a traditional democrat. Both you and I, apparently consider ourselves to be philosophically socialist.

I guess that doesn't tell much -how we label ourselves I mean.

I think, personally, that those labels mean very little also.

Maybe another way of evaluating where we are politically is the degree to which we are judgmental and controlling of other people's behaviors and lifestyles.

[MineralMan]

186. Then we believe pretty much the same things.

We probably differ in the details, but then, that's always the case.

I don't want to discuss this any further in someone else's thread. I gave you a link to a thread that is about me. Take it there, please.

Liberal means different things in different places. Consider that, if you will, and consider where it was that I wrote that.

[NYC_SKP]

167. What a pathetic thing to do.

Please. We're better than that, or should be.

[Bonobo]

180. Linking to a DU OP is a "pathetic thing"? The OP wasn't even locked. nt

[RKP5637]

115. Interesting, thanks for posting! We get usually one chinook helicopter a

night - my neighbor said it's from one base to another. It's loud, really loud. A bunch at once, that, must be really loud.

[there but 4 fortune]

33. Ah...what's that smell?

It's the smell of fascism in the air! Don't you just love it?

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. Main question is: did any soldiers rappel onto your lawn? nt

[JDPriestly]

86. That will surely be next. I'll keep you posted.

[Throd]

39. "military trash"?

[EFerrari]

46. I think the poster meant "overpriced expensive military trash".

[DevonRex]

91. That struck me as as a horrible comment.

Being a veteran and all...

[JDPriestly]

133. I wasn't talking about the people in the copters. I was talking about the

copters. My husband is an Air Force veteran who loves planes.

[Codeine]

42. Great. Now the election hinges on half-a-dozen rotary-winged aircraft

moving across the sky.

[MineralMan]

45. Absolutely! Vote for a Republican if You Hate

Military Helicopters flying over your house! That'll show Obama.

[EFerrari]

44. You have my sympathy.

That was one of the awful things about living in Silicon Valley back in the day when the space program was at full tilt bogey at Moffett Field, NASA and SRI. At times, it felt like living in a war zone.

[JDPriestly]

87. Thank you. That is how it felt -- like living in a war zone.

[truth2power]

188. Reading down this thread I'm amazed at the nastiness directed toward you. I've read

your posts for a long time and I've always found you to be articulate and not at all hysterical when describing your concerns. I don't know what's going on here but it's disturbing.

If 12 military helicopters flew over my house I'd want to know what's up. That would be a normal reaction, especially given the state of things in this country these days, i.e., militarized police forces and all.

Some OFFICIAL should be willing to provide an explanation that MAKES SENSE. I mean, Obama believes in transparency, doesn't he? Um...wait...

[JDPriestly]

196. Thank you. I plan to call my city councilman about this next week.

We live in the city, close to downtown.

I am concerned about the militarism in the local police efforts. Police work and military work are two very, very different things. Los Angeles is not a military zone, and we should not have groups of military helicopters flying overhead in this way.

The military can no longer win wars. And there aren't really any wars to fight that should be fought at the moment, so it is looking for ways to justify its existence and oversized budget. That is what I suspect may be behind the militarization of the police in large cities like LA.

[truth2power]

198. Calling your councilman is a very good idea. I'm of the opinion that

instead of signing petitions that simply go into the round file because our overlords don't give a rat's ass what we think, we'd be better off using our energy to let them know we're watching everything they do. And we're going to ask questions about anything that's out of the ordinary. And if we don't get answers, that, in itself, is a huge red flag.

As far as the militarization of the police, what I've read here on DU that makes the most sense to me is that Homeland Security has dumped $$billions in training and equipment onto local police depts. and they feel obliged to use it. We live in a form of "inverted totalitarianism" according to author Sheldon Wolin.

Pay no attention to the snarkiness, here (And I'm not talking about the posts where people offer possible explanations, sans ridicule). Some of it is from those who have their heads in the sand. Some of it, well.....I could say what it looks like to me, but I'm probably not permitted.

[titaniumsalute]

48. Dude you need to chill out

There's a lot of things to get your panties in a bundle over...this doesn't seem like one of them. I grew up near an air national guard unit when they used to practice flying in the old Huey Helicopters. They'd shake the pictures off the walls. But we managed.

[Redstate Bluegirl]

50. I thought that was common

Meh

[Cleita]

52. I used to live there and never found it that peaceful there in spite of

helicopters, military or otherwise. Ever watch a car chase on TV? You have to be there to see all the helicopters flying overhead, both HWY patrol and news helicopters. It reminds you of the Valkyrie scene from "Apocalypse Now". Maybe that's what you are hearing and they aren't military at all. Maybe they are making a movie. People have mistaken movie making for the real thing more than once.

[JDPriestly]

88. No my ex-Air Force husband says they were Black Hawk helicopters.

[DevonRex]

57. This is really silly. So don't vote for him then.

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Edited to clarify that I am NOT discouraging people from voting. I simply doubt that anyone would decline to vote for Obama because some helicopters flew over their house once.

[uppityperson]

117. Once, no. But twice?

indeed

[LadyHawkAZ]

61. Where were they 1) coming from and 2) going?

it might be a bigger waste of money to fly out of their way to avoid flying over someone's house.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

69. If the OP had been more observant and paid attention to such things as service and markings we might

know that

[LadyHawkAZ]

114. I used to live in San Luis Obispo county

Vandenberg AFB to the south of us, Fort Hunter Liggett to the north. Helicopters flew over town to the tune of once a week or so. It wasn't that big of a deal. To avoid flying over the town, they would have had to go out over the ocean or east over the nat'l forest- wasting fuel. It just seems like complaining about the noise AND the expense is a bit conflicting- to avoid the noise, the expense in fuel would have to go up.

[obamanut2012]

68. Is Lindsay Lohan in town?

Seriously, there are lots of bases in SOCAL, so I doubt it's a big deal.

[Sheepshank]

70. You have no idea what they are doing

or why they are doing it...and that it doesn't happen with any frequency.


Fucking aye.

*Fail* on the unwarranted rant.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. calm down.

there was probably a cancer granny smoking a joint in her back yard.



...What- you want your tax dollars to just sit there?

[Tsiyu]

94. Dear JDP

I am sorry the helicopters are stressing you out.

I am more sorry about the abundance of creeps here on DU who think it's all so much fun to make fun of a longtime, loyal, sweet DUer. All of them need to get lives, or something, if this is how they have their daily fun.

Perhaps some people are just cruel by nature, others may be itching to get in a fight with someone, and others just have such a high regard for themselves, they think their behavior doesn't matter.

In any case, I am disgusted by some of the responses in this thread.

You people should be ashamed of yourselves, and by gawd, if I was ever lost, alone, afraid or needed answers to a question, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near any of you. I'd just hate to think how nasty you all are in real life. You make me sick, those of you who piled on here to feed your self-absorption.

Peace and a

[DisgustipatedinCA]

100. Thank you! Personally, I might be irked by the helos, probably not scared

But JD Priestly has been here forever, and we have former Freepers and a bunch of other douchebags making fun of her. I'm not at all cool with that. And to the jury: yes, I literally mean longtime freepers who are now somehow members "in good standing" here. I've always detested freeper garbage, and I fucking hate it when it's in my own back yard.

[Tsiyu]

108. De Nada...there's no excuse

Some of the worst offenders ( not those who are being cute or just funny - I mean those who have attacked and belittled JDP in this thread) PRIDE themselves on being such RATIONAL, COOL, CALM and COLLECTED characters.

They look like a bunch of 1% Frat boys on this thread, like all they have to do all day is make fun of people. And they are Hosts and such? Hello! Would you want to go to an event hosted by any of them?

Ignorant, undiscerning and creepy - the lot of them. JDP isn't some newbie poster, but someone who has been here a lot longer than any of them.


I expect apologies, but that may be too much to ask of too-cool-for-school Frat boyz.

[sabrina 1]

120. Thank you, I could not agree more, to see this kind of behavior, especially directed

at someone who as long as I have been familiar with her, has never been anything but kind and polite even when she disagrees.

Some of the worst offenders ( not those who are being cute or just funny - I mean those who have attacked and belittled JDP in this thread) PRIDE themselves on being such RATIONAL, COOL, CALM and characters.

Perfectly said. I will remember this thread the next time I see any lectures about Community Standards.

[sabrina 1]

121. Yes, freeperish behavior on DU. I never expected to see it frankly.

JDP does deserve an apology, but I doubt she will get it. That would be the progressive and classy thing to do though.

[truth2power]

189. Amen! n/t

[sarcasmo]

102. Police State, the USA way.

[zappaman]

103. I saw and heard them when they flew right by my office window.

I did NOT poop my pants.

[Harmony Blue]

107. Ignore those who dismiss your concerns JDPriestly

Democracy requires transparency and you have every right to question what the government is doing. Living in the Tampa Bay area, I have never, never seen what you have described and I am not far from MacDill Air Force base.

[charlie and algernon]

111. Heh, I hope you never visit Virginia Beach then

I was there on a HS band trip about 15 years ago and there were Navy planes flying over constantly. The weekend we were there, there was an aircraft carrier parked offshore and at night the planes were taking off and flying directly over our hotel. I was sitting on the balcony, watching them take off, turn and fly right overhead. It was pretty cool.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

122. Second witness here.

Lived in LA most of my life. The two gray helicopters
that went over our place here on the Westside this
morning (coming from downtown & headed for the beach)
were unlike anything I've ever seen go over, and they were
much lower than the darker bigger & slower copters that
ferry the Prez around when he's in LA.

Edit: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8539394&rss=rss-kabc-article-8539394

They were going "from point A to point B."

[JDPriestly]

136. They must have been everywhere. That makes this more troubling.

I'm near the 110 Freeway -- a long way from West LA.

What troubles me is that we saw the use of military equipment during the OWS evictions. Now we are moving from the usual police helicopters to these monsters flying in formation.

Do we really need more militarism withing the US? Are we people so dangerous that our government needs to fly military equipment over a city that has no military purpose and poses no danger. LA does not have a major military base. We have lived here over 25 years and this has never happened. People can ridicule my concern, but this is not a change for the better. We should be moving toward less militarism, not more.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

142. There is no issue here...

You live under a primary VFR flight path. If you would review the aviation chart, that much would be clear. A squadron flying in formation used it today under FAA direction, a perfectly reasonably thing to do.

There are several large military bases in the greater LA area

This has no political or militarism aspects to it.

I suggest you contact the FAA FSDO over this if it continues to bother you.

[Robb]

125. The first time I heard a military aircraft get real close, I was startled at how loud it really was.

Nothing in books, TV or movies can really prepare you for how loud a military jet is. Helicopters are the same, much louder than you would think possible, much less necessary.

I remember thinking how glad I was that the aircraft in question was going to kill someone else, not me. Because in my heart of hearts I could imagine no way I could possibly ever escape something that loud that meant to kill me. And I was terrified, and comforted, all at once. Strange feeling, believe me.

If I had any doubt in my mind that the thing making all that noise wasn't completely on my side, I'd probably have had the same reaction as you. It's visceral, brain-stem, reptile-brain fear.

That said, I don't think the question of low-flying aircraft around LAX is going to show up on a Gallup poll on Obama's candidacy anytime soon.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

162. Every June we have the Air and Water Show here in Chicago and...

..... every preceeding Thursday before the show I get the crap scared out of me by an F-Whatever buzzing my house (I live near the lake).

I usually think to myself: I'm glad I'm not on the business end of one of those bad boys.

And I'm a pilot who loves airplanes.

When I hear helicopters I turn on the news to see which high-rise has a fire or if there is a wreck on Lake Shore Drive.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

176. "It's visceral, brain-stem, reptile-brain fear."

Yeah. These two that flew right over my wife and me,
our brains just shut down from not only the sound but the
sight, as they went over. Terrifying. I can't imagine what it
would be like to be waiting for them to fire on you. But I can
imagine what I would feel if they were from another country.

[Robb]

177. In 1990, we used F-16s and F-18s to drop leaflets.

Low-level fast flights over Iraqi positions. Terrifying god-awful-loud jet boom followed by a blizzard of propaganda leaflets, addressed to individual army companies. Basically said, in arabic, "the next drop will be a bomb."

This is a big reason why you saw all those abandoned posts and surrendered troops on CNN.

[Texasgal]

126. Whoa!

I don't understand why people are being so rude in this thread.

Is it NORMAL to have military helicopters flying over your neighborhood? Geesh!

Is it OKAY to be concerned/alarmed by such an event?

Shame on the jerks that are being rude! This poster has a legitimate concern! Stop being assholes!

[Cali_Democrat]

154. Thank you. n/t

[treestar]

202. Maybe it would be normal to be alarmed

But to blame Obama and indicate it could affect his winning an election (in LA of all places) indicates perhaps it is simply being used here.

[greytdemocrat]

128. Cool!!!

It's Escape from LA!!!

[obliviously]

129. I will get on the phone

with George Nory on Coast to Coast AM, this needs to be taken seriously, maybe we can get Linda Moulton Howe to investigate it!

[donheld]

134. JD, You post at DU too much.

There coming to take you away.

[rufus dog]

138. Saigon,....Shit!

[Muskypundit]

145. I personally love hearing and seeing our helicopters and jets low

But I can understand being afraid of it, especially if it is super new. It probably has to do with hyper packed airspace over southern California, along with a training exercise. The U.S military has not had a hand in ousting OWS, you can thank you more local city government for that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

148. They coulda parked every one of 'em on your front lawn, and Obama would still win LA....

in a landslide. "Military trash"? That says so much more about you than I cared to know.

[cherokeeprogressive]

149. HA! They flew over Big Bear Lake a few minutes later and were celebrated!

Strange how a difference of a few miles changes attitudes.

I grew up on Norwalk where the Sheriff's helicopter was heard dozens of times every day. So much so that it went unnoticed most times.

Military noise? Do Sheriff's helicopters sound different from military ones?

Peaceful people live in L.A.? You must live in a different Los Angeles than the one I grew up in LOL.

[trackfan]

151. Actually it was an entirely different level of noise from Police helicopters.

I'm a lifetime L.A. resident, and have had the Police right over my house as recently as a couple weeks ago. I've lived in places where they were there just about every night in the summer, so I'm very familiar with it. This noise was several magnitudes greater. It had that "military" sound, similar to when they have a big bomber fly over - but it still sounded like propellers, so I was suprised at how loud it was. I then saw how many helicopters there were.

[cherokeeprogressive]

159. "military sound". Is that what is offensive to you?

If you're talking about the POP of helicopter blades, here's what happens...

The tip of the blade that is traveling TOWARD you is breaking the sound barrier due to the forward speed of the propeller tip ADDED to the speed of the helicopter.

Once the helicopter PASSES you, the blade tip that's coming in your direction isn't breaking the sound barrier in relation to where you are because you have to SUBTRACT the speed the copter is traveling from the speed of the blade that's coming in YOUR direction. That's why the sound changes dramatically when the 'copter goes overhead.

Military has no bearing on the physics of that.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

163. A large formation would certainly sound different than a single helo

So I can see a reaction to the sound.

That said it is not:
- Unprecedented
- An indication of increased militarism
- Have anything to do with OWS
- Nefarious
- Uncalled for/inappropriate

[JDPriestly]

197. How do you know?

Do you live between Pasadena and downtown Los Angeles?

Did you experience it?

What is the evidence on which you base your opinion that this is a small thing?

Trust me, we have helicopters in our area all the time. Nearly every afternoon, helicopters fly over the freeway near us at rush hour.

This was different. And yes, it is nefarious. And yes, it is uncalled for/inappropriate.

When the military can afford to waste jet fuel, time and energy on flying over this strip in the mid-morning, it has too much money to spend.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

210. I've spent some time around helos and other flying machines

they are noisy, and a formation even more so. No one is arguing that it is was loud for a short time.

I say that their presence meant NOTHING since there has been NOTHING since. You have nothing to support your claim that it was somehow nefarious or inappropriate.

Civilian & Police choppers are much smaller than Blackhawks. They would be louder, especially in formation. Someone already took the time to explain the physics behind helo noise.

The location (altitude and heading) was set by the FAA. At this point I believe that you never even looked at the charts I linked to. If you did you can see why they were directed there by the FAA.

You have made some very large claims with nothing to back them up while I and others have repeatedly shown how and why you are wrong. Do you have anything rational to support your position?

[JDPriestly]

211. I remember a few years back when the Bush administration wanted to deploy Blackwater

in Southern California. The citizens objected so loudly that they didn't dare do it -- at least no openly.

Nevertheless, between homeland security checks at airports and the integration of military equipment and techniques in our local police force arsenals, there is a very troubling problem for me.

I think about how the generals did away with democracy in ancient Rome, how Napoleon took over in France after the Revolution. We are in a time of tremendous social upheaval. It isn't new. We have been going through this for quite some time. People who need order more than anything are very nervous about the change. When I see Blackhawk helicopters flying over this part of LA at a low altitude, I wonder who decided to send them there.

I see a tremendous danger of a military coup in our country. The military and the federal courts have, in my opinion, the most power in our government, because they do not run for election. The military leaders have the most knowledge of the institutional history in D.C. And they have the greatest expertise at obtaining budgets they want. The Constitution makes the military inferior to and requires it to answer to the civilian part of our government. But in reality, as we see with Obama, our presidents are increasingly either in awe of or frightened of the military leadership.

I think that there is a good chance that our next president in 2016 may well be someone sponsored by or directly from the military.

Thomas Jefferson and others of his generation were very knowledgeable about ancient history. They absolutely did not want a standing army, and for the very reason that I am frightened by the Black Hawks overhead and the thought that we may already be seeing a slow but sure military coup in our country.

I would like to be wrong, but you will have to do more than just ridicule me to convince me that I am.

We are supposed to have across-the-board budget cuts including cuts to the military budget this year. I will be watching to see whether the military budget actually is cut. I suspect that the anti-Syria and anti-Iran (which according to the French press are closely related) news we are being exposed to is intended to whip up a hysteria in people that will result in no cuts to the military budget.

The Black Hawks overhead are, in my opinion, part of a larger picture.

[trackfan]

172. I didn't say it was offensive. I'm just reporting what I heard.

It was a lot louder than normal aircraft noise. I used the term "military" because the only time we generally get aircraft noise of that that magnitude is when it is a flyover for, say, opening day at Dodger Stadium, or the Rose Parade, etc.

[TheCruces]

153. LOL...don't move to where I live

We always have people bitching in the local paper about sonic booms.

"They're bad for my health" blah blah blah

Invariably, it's some rich retiree whose nap got disturbed.

[tammywammy]

190. Are you in Las Cruces?

Didn't people know WSMR was there when they moved in?

[TheCruces]

200. I am and apparently not

The local paper's website is filled with comments about people complaining that something needs to be done about the sonic booms, because it's (insert one or more of these reasons) interrupting their nap, going to break their house, scaring them, scaring the dog, causing internal organ damage, etc. The other half of the comments are people yelling at them saying it's the "SOUND OF FREEDOM."

We've been getting a lot lately. Mostly due to training flights of the F-22 Raptors out of Holloman AFB.

[tammywammy]

208. I've never been to Las Cruces

In my work I have scheduled a bunch of flights to El Paso and booked a lot of hotel rooms in Las Cruces. I've heard great things about the food. Maybe one of these days I'll get to try a Go Burger burrito.

One guy at work was always making sure I got him a hotel room with a fridge. The fridge is good for multiple reasons and the one I hear most is that everyone's usually leaving the hotel at 2am to get to WSMR for prep. Anywho, this one guy though told me the first day out there he always buys like 20 lbs worth of burritos and then puts some in the freezer. That way he has delicious burritos to eat all week. At the end of the week he packs up the frozen ones in his bag to bring back to his wife. She told me "he may have to be gone a whole week, but he better bring me back some burritos."

[TheCruces]

209. I've honestly never been to Go Burger

But I am all about Habanero's on Solano. Seriously, they have some good tacos and chile relleno there. There's definitely some good food options out here. I guess I should go check out Go Burger now. I've heard good things, but somehow I've just never made it there.

[Sheepshank]

169. I honestly didn't understand the fear factor in all of this

Last edited Sat Feb 11, 2012, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)

...until I noticed that twice now you've tried to draw a parallel between these military helicopters and OW. So did anything eventuate with some perceived military intervention and OWs?

I live a 30 min drive from a military base and the coolest thing I see are a whole herd of them helicopters hauling huge military vehicles hanging down from their underbelly. Way cool, very noisy and somehow bringing home the reality of combat preparedness. And I imagine something like that requires some pretty extensive training to get it right.

[TwilightGardener]

171. I'm sure President Obama will get right on that--can't have choppers in YOUR airspace.

Maybe you could even let Obama know of some alternate routes he might consider, since he's the guy who determines such things.

[mercuryblues]

175. I live

about 30 or so miles from an Army base. Directly under their training flight path. We are semi-rural and they fly low enough that I can see the whites of their eyes. They are very loud esp when there are 3 or more in a row. Believe it or not, but because of the terrain and wind direction I can sometimes hear them doing demolition training.

The first time I heard them, not long after we moved in it was more of a WTF is that? My youngest, age 7 at the time went into overdrive to get outside to see the helo, he knew what it was right off the bat. He is now 18 and still does with his 10 year old brother is right behind him. The kids wave and sometimes the GI's smile and wave back. Sometimes there isn't one for months, then bam 3 or more times in a week. Which is why I think they have more than one flight path that they use.

That said a few years ago about 3 Am, a helo seemed to be hovering over our house. Spouse and I were woken up with the same thought. WTF are they doing - thinking it was the Army. When we became more alert we realized that the sound was not the same. A cup of coffee and a google search later: someone decided to shoot a cop about 5 miles from our house. It was a police helicopter, searching for the suspects. After 4 days of our neighborhood being pretty much on lockdown they finally found them.

[Tsiyu]

195. Three of my boys were in Civil Air Patrol

(One was Cadet Commander of his squadron) and they would do the same as your sons - RUN over each other scrambling to get out of the house to see what was overhead. They could tell you exactly what any aircraft was.

My (last) ex is a pilot and sometimes circles my place if he's flying a chopper rather than fixed wing in my area when my youngest is here, which rattles the neighbors but is always a lot of fun.

But NOTHING is as loud as the military jets that blow past. They test a few every day but the sonic boom hits the folks a bit north of us so I just get the "that damn thing must be on the roof" sensation.

I can imagine a dozen Blackhawks right down in your face would be really jarring and frightening if you weren't used to it. And I would think going over dense residential areas is rather cruel knowing the noise those things make when a dozen are storming over. The Op says this is a new occurrence, so one wonders why the new flight path in LA?

I can understand someone being really upset by it, and would not ridicule an older person who wanted to vent about it. But that's just me.

Glad they found the perp, BTW, mercuryblues. I am in the flight path for Lifeflight to Chattanooga, and the choppers fly over at all hours. But no chopper is as loud as a military chopper. A dozen of them? I'd be pissed as well.

[annabanana]

185. 5 miles from NYC's JFK here....

We are below where the landing gear comes out of the fuselage. Every once in awhile a dead stowaway falls out.

"Noise" is not too much of a much, compared.

[kwassa]

191. LA is the city of helicopters. I lived there for 17 years.

I was there during Reagan's presidency, when fleets of helicopters would take off from Santa Monica airport when he flew up to his ranch.

Police helicopters, and tv station helicopters are a continual presence in the skies over LA. There were times when the police would fly over my neighborhood in the middle of the night with giant spotlights casting light down on the ground. I lived near Wilshire and La Brea. I was there in the '92 riots when there was no police anywhere and only tv copters in the sky, and smoke plumes from the burning stores.

I can't believe that anyone is shocked by helicopters in LA.

[EFerrari]

192. There are helicopters and helicopters, though.

Right now, I'm about two or three miles from Reed Hillview Airport. There is always someone in the airspace above the ranch. Sometimes the noise is annoying but it isn't something that would interrupt your normal activity.

When we lived a few miles from Moffett Field, we never knew when the military was going to put something up that made you put your hands over your ears and rock or run outside to see if the Russians had finally come, lol. It was a whole 'nother level of intrusion. Most of the time, it was jets and testing but sometimes, it was helicopters that made the shingles rattle.

[inna]

193. belated k&r - and a "wow", too, at some of the comments!

[EX500rider]

194. Was driving in Louisiana back in the 80's when they scrambled some B-52's..

...from Barksdale AFB I think....man now that was loud!!! 8 engines at full thrust...wheeew!


"President Obama, get your military trash out of my airway."

wow...not his job, FAA's job and they will fly where they are told too, and you don't own any airway, sorry.

Military trash? Hope that wasn't a well thought out sentence.

[suffragette]

199. Belated hug to you JDPriestly

Understandable to me why hearing and seeing such a large formation of military helicopters flying over your house would be disconcerting.

[JDPriestly]

218. Thanks, suffragette.

[steve2470]

205. Hugs for your fright and irritation

I'm not sure it was 100% necessary for the military choppers to be over your house but at least we need to be sympathetic to your fright and irritation.

[JDPriestly]

217. Thanks. I wonder what I have done to deserve to be the subject of such exaggerated

meanness on DU? I must have stepped on a lot of toes in the past. I try to argue with ideas, not with personal insults or ridicule.

[Old Troop]

207. Your bigotry (military trash) speaks for itself.

[JDPriestly]

216. By military trash, I was speaking of the outdated equipment.

My husband is a US Air Force veteran. I certainly wouldn't speak of pilots in that way. Never.

[AngryAmish]

212. Only time we see military helicopters in Chicago is when the President is in town

The fly low and fast. Really loud. But they are much better than the alternative which would be shutting down the expressway for a motorcade.

[MicaelS]

214. You would never survive if you lived near a military airbase

Especially if you lived under one of the landing approach or takeoff paths. Noise like this is normal. I live under one of the landing approach to Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth. When aircraft are on approach it is pretty damned loud. My attitude is "this too shall pass."

[JDPriestly]

215. If I lived near a military base, I would know why the helicopters were there,

and it would not bother me since it would be for a rational purpose.

Also, most military bases are not in the middle of a city like LA in which the noise level is already almost unbearable.

[MicaelS]

219. They are there for a rational purpose

It has already been explained to you multiple times:

(a) there was a training exercise ongoing

(b) the flight path the helicopters took due to FAA flight restrictions

You just do not want to accept that.

[air_pirate]

220. I signed up for this site only to address this issue.

For several years, I flew helicopters for the USMC.

1) Aircraft from Camp Pendleton and Miramar routinely fly over LA. On average, I flew a military helicopter over LA once a month. There are myriad reasons for this practice. The most obvious is that the military, particularly helicopter units, routinely operate in urban areas. Kandahar, Kabul, and Bagdad are all large cities with lots of vehicle traffic. LA simulates this environment well. Even if the US were not involved in combat operations abroad, it is still a necessary skill for aviators in peace and war. Urban navigation and orientation is a skill that requires practice. If you'd prefer that the military 'waste' more money spending extra flight hours to fly to far away cities more similar to Kandahar, Kabul, and Bagdad, please write your congressman and request the military get funding for this type of travel. Short of flying to some far off third world county, we preferred to keep current on this skill be flying to the nearest large city. Hopefully I've given you some purpose to this activity.

2) Formation flying is a common practice. However, 12 aircraft make an admittedly large formation. Even still, if a Squadron wants to gain flight lead currency while practicing urban navigation, it is again, saving you, the tax payer, money. That Squadron Commander just managed to get flight leadership training done while getting the other 24 pilots in that formation current on urban navigation.

3) Your paranoia about the military requires some self-reflection on your part. Of the 44 presidents, only 12 did not serve in the military in one capacity or another. All of the founding fathers besides John Adams and his son served. Your implication a president's connection with the military would be a bad thing represents a fundamental break that society has with the world they live in. Combat veterans are worldly, resolute, and have gained leadership skills. These skills aren't well replicated by community organizing, by filing frivolous lawsuits, or in a courtroom or classroom. Quite simply, they cope with adversity where lawyers often cannot. The last time we had consecutive lawyer presidents (Taft, Wilson, Coolidge, Hoover, Roosevelt) who didn't serve as servicemen brought us to the great depression. The populace's reliance (in both parties) on lawyers as leaders has led the USA astray before, and it seems to be doing so again.

4) I wouldn't count on Mr. Obama caring about your vote. Democratic politicians don't care about the residents of Los Angeles. They know none of you are actually going to think about whom you are voting for. Reagan was the last Republican to win California. 30 years of complacent voting on the part of Californians just tell a president that he should spend his time in swing states. Mr. Obama knows that you'll either vote Democrat or not vote, so he doesn't care.

[JDPriestly]

222. Right now, Sunday morning at 11:17 a.m., there is some sort of aircraft

making loud noises overhead -- and I live over 20 miles from LAX and far from the flight path from the other airports in the area.

The noise pollution in our city is unhealthy. And apparently the citizens of Los Angeles can't do a thing about it.

No wonder our children do not do well in school. The planes and helicopters and who-knows-what drone in their ears almost all day.

On top of that we have ice cream trucks with electronic noise coming from them, leaf-blowers and the sounds of trucks, motorcycles and cars -- constantly.

This may seem petty to you, but the fact is that much of the unhealthy stress of our modern life is due to the flood of mechanical and electronic noise in which we are drowning ourselves. Military helicopters flying at low altitudes over our city should not be permitted.

I'm sure it's great fun to be up there, but those noisy beasts bring misery to those of us down here -- even though we grow used to it and do not acknowledge it. The noise is very wearing on our psyches and bodies.

[RZM]

221. Back in 2002, the marines trained in my hometown

That's Dayton, OH, BTW. There were lots of helicopters over the city for a couple weeks. I figured that they need to train in urban environments every once in a while, so some cities have to do it. I thought it was kind of cool. It was neat driving around and seeing them all over the place.

I say take it with a smile

[YellowRubberDuckie]

223. Could it be guard weekend?

Could the guys and gals in the military going out for some training?
I live in Oklahoma. This happens all the time. Why is this even something to post about?