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MrCoffee

(24,159 posts)
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:38 PM Feb 2012

Salon - The big banks win again

Rather than settling anything, this agreement is simply a continuation of the policy framework of both the Bush and the Obama administrations. So what exactly is that framework? It is, as Damon Silvers of the Congressional Oversight Panel which monitored the bailouts, once put it, to preserve the capital structures of the largest banks. “We can either have a rational resolution to the foreclosure crisis or we can preserve the capital structure of the banks,” said Silvers in October, 2010. “We can’t do both.” Writing down debt that cannot be paid back — the approach Franklin Roosevelt took — is off the table, as it would jeopardize the equity keeping those banks afloat.


Further down:

A more realistic solution to the problem was actually debated within the administration during the transition, in debates revealed by economist Laura Tyson at the Financial Times’ View from the Top Conference in 2011. She noted that top officials had to decide whether to engage in mass write-downs of debt similar to FDR’s programs in the 1930s by using tools such as judicial modification, or whether to allow millions of foreclosures to go forward. They chose the latter. The current foreclosure epidemic, in other words, is partially a policy choice.

Everything done subsequent to that decision has been designed to mask this essential policy choice. This settlement is simply the latest example. While the headline number on the settlement is $26 billion, the actual cost to the banks and benefit to homeowners could be far lower, depending on how this complicated system of “credits” will be allocated. The banks will in all likelihood be able to charge off activities they had already planned, such as not pursuing deficiency judgments, refinancing and loan modifications. Some of the money may wind up being be paid not by banks, but by investors, such as pension funds.
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/10/banks_get_off_easy_in_mortgage_settlement_deal/
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Salon - The big banks win again (Original Post) MrCoffee Feb 2012 OP
Like the Harlem Globetrotters, the outcome was never in question. russspeakeasy Feb 2012 #1
I'm getting right tired of playing for the Generals, you know? MrCoffee Feb 2012 #2
Signed... redqueen Feb 2012 #13
wow -- you're old Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2012 #18
LOL! redqueen Feb 2012 #20
BURN MrCoffee Feb 2012 #21
This ProSense Feb 2012 #3
Interesting how Schneiderman was extensively quoted a few months ago, but is ignored now msanthrope Feb 2012 #5
Yawn MrCoffee Feb 2012 #6
Wow ProSense Feb 2012 #8
Facts are facts MrCoffee Feb 2012 #9
"Yves Smith is the master of distortion". brentspeak Feb 2012 #12
Do you know anyone personally who will be affected by this settlement, I mean a sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #14
You're walking into it headfirst MrCoffee Feb 2012 #15
Well, I tried to find out if there was any argument that dealt with the PEOPLE for a sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #16
Your friend will have to wait a good long while to see anything from this MrCoffee Feb 2012 #19
Well, my friend will not be accepting any $2,000. She has already been contacted sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #22
Please keep us informed, Sabrina. Bonobo Feb 2012 #23
Well, Schneiderman does deserve a lot of credit for his position on all of this over sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #24
Getting off the hook vis a vis robo-signing would be no small thing. Bonobo Feb 2012 #26
I agree, but he seemed to be saying that even on the Robo-signing sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #27
To the surprise of ..... no one. marmar Feb 2012 #4
"It's a rigged game, and guess who's always going to lose?" KansDem Feb 2012 #7
Of course. nt woo me with science Feb 2012 #10
Kick woo me with science Feb 2012 #11
wow, this is gonna hurt the bottom line of BoA onethatcares Feb 2012 #17
shhhh.... there's an election coming up fascisthunter Feb 2012 #25

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
20. LOL!
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 08:27 PM
Feb 2012


I was referring to this...

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson..." - FDR

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
3. This
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:43 PM
Feb 2012

article is ridiculous. It's basically arguing that the settlement isn't going to do anything so the banks won.

It is going to do something, and that's as basic as providing homeowners with some cash and legal support.

Schneiderman: deal with banks a 'down payment'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#46335427


Not only are the criminal investigations ongoing, but there is also a provision to provide lawyers to home owners.

During the interview, Rachel also mentioned this:

Company Faces Forgery Charges in Mo. Foreclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002279081

More information.

Fact Sheet: Mortgage Servicing Settlement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002289132

After mortgage settlement, MERS left out in the cold
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002290415

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
5. Interesting how Schneiderman was extensively quoted a few months ago, but is ignored now
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:46 PM
Feb 2012

because he doesn't conveniently fit into the 'the banks got away with it' narrative?

MrCoffee

(24,159 posts)
6. Yawn
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:55 PM
Feb 2012

Schneiderman literally sold out. The NY AG's office is getting cash from the banks as part of the settlement. You can keep trusting him, I don't.



I read all your links already when you originally posted them. They're all useless and don't say anything, but man do they look pretty up there, all pretending to defend your position.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
8. Wow
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:01 PM
Feb 2012

Yves Smith is the master of distortion. She made certain her spin was out early yesterday.


Facts are facts: cash, investigations, help for home owners, just the beginning.

Quoting the amount per home owner is also inaccurate.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
12. "Yves Smith is the master of distortion".
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 06:57 PM
Feb 2012

Something's missing from the body of your post -- like facts.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
14. Do you know anyone personally who will be affected by this settlement, I mean a
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:03 PM
Feb 2012

regular, ordinary citizen whose home was taken by one of the Big Banks, illegally?

This is about people. You say they should be thrilled to get a few thousand dollars, and there is not even a guarantee of that for most of those whose homes were wrongfully foreclosed on.

Would you be thrilled to have your home taken away, then when your only recourse is to sue the thieves who illegally took it, by proving eg, that they forged documents to do so, to settle for a couple of thousand dollars?

How about arguing from the side of the PEOPLE rather than the side of the politicians and the banks? Try to look at what this means for people.

I do know someone who had a very good case against the bank who illegally foreclosed on her. Schneiderman even agreed. Now however, with immunity given to the banks for their illegal robo-signing practices, she may not be able to use that information in her case. We'll see what her attorney thinks, but I can assure you she will not be happy to be offered a few thousand dollars and she is not alone.

Looks like once again the people are pretty much on their own.

There should have been no settlement that allows corruption of any kind to go unpunished, it's simple, unless one agrees that the laws only apply to the 'lesser people', as the people are described by a prominent member of the Deficit Commission.

MrCoffee

(24,159 posts)
15. You're walking into it headfirst
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:14 PM
Feb 2012

Did you not get the talking point memo, "How to Spin the Latest Banking Scam Into Gold: 'It's A Good Start!'" published by the New York Attorney General's office?

Some highlights:

- We're going to thoroughly investigate and pursue the Big Bad Banks with the gobs of money they gave us for signing off on this one. We wouldn't dream of settling before investigating, like we just did.

- We still have all these bazillions of legal channels to go after the Big Bad Banks. Forget anything you ever heard about civil vs. criminal standards of guilt, we can totally nail them "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is really way easier to prove than "preponderance of the evidence".

- The Big Bad Banks know we're serious about going after them now. No, really, they definitely learned a big lesson here. We're sure of it.

- I've never heard of chain of title and don't know what your talking about, so stop asking me if this settlement essentially means we'll NEVER figure it out, neener neener neener i'm not listening.

- $26 Billion! Come on, that's such a big number! Didn't we do great? $26 Billion! No, I won't figure out what percentage of $700 Billion $26 Billion is, you have a calculator, do it yourself.

- It's such a good start. What a great start this is. How good is this going to look on my campaign flyer?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
16. Well, I tried to find out if there was any argument that dealt with the PEOPLE for a
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:52 PM
Feb 2012

change, how this settlement would affect actual, real, Americans whose homes were stolen from them.

Maybe there are no memos available yet, or it could be the truth is, the people just got sold out again.

I am watching this very closely, on behalf of one person I know who was right in the middle of this and has been in contact with Schneiderman. I'm not especially interested in helping to get the Banks off the hook, or what effect any of this may have on any politician regardless of party, I am interested in seeing some justice for real people.

I am waiting to find out from my friend what effect this settlement will now have on her case, if any. But I know for sure she is in no way willing to accept a pittance, which some here seem to think she should be grateful for, to make her go away.

The person who bought her house is also now affected, not having a clear title. And we do not know yet how Wells Fargo passed off that house as a legal sale. Or if there will be any consequences for doing so.

So many victims in all of this. I am sort of stunned at the cavalier attitude here regarding those millions of victims, homeowners, those who bought homes with no clear title, the investors etc. It is a disgrace that no one has yet been held accountable for any of it. And it's interesting that these attempts to let the banks off the hook did not happen, until the people began fighting back and filing their own lawsuits since their government did zero to help them.

MrCoffee

(24,159 posts)
19. Your friend will have to wait a good long while to see anything from this
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:56 PM
Feb 2012

The banks can take up to three years to write-down/refi people who are underwater, and they get to do a fair amount of cherry-picking as to what loans are adjusted.

As far as the $2000 it sounds like your friend may be entitled to, that's supposed to come sooner, but how much sooner is up in the air.

The clear title question will be immensely difficult to resolve now that this settlement has gone through. I can't find any explanation of how we're going to resolve the chain of title problems.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
22. Well, my friend will not be accepting any $2,000. She has already been contacted
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 08:37 PM
Feb 2012

by the Govt a few weeks ago offering to do a review of her case. She will let her attorney handle that. These contacts from the Bank and the Govt to people like her, whose home was illegally foreclosed on over the past few weeks, considering no one was interested in talking to her before, seems to indicate they knew a settlement was coming and are trying to make the lawsuits go away. I guess it's difficult for them to understand that when someone takes your home and gives you nothing back, a couple of thousand dollars is just not a big enough bribe to make you go away.

I may be wrong, and I admit, I do not know yet, but another way to make you go away, is to change the law. To guarantee to the Banks that robo-signing cannot be used against them, seems to me to undercut the many lawsuits filed already and those that will be and are being filed, based on that issue. However, as I said, I do not know if people can no longer use that as evidence of wrong-doing in civil cases now.

I wonder if home-owners could form a large group and incorporate, making themselves too big to fail also? If these are the rules now, maybe we the people should join them. We are at a disadvantage as individuals. As a huge Corp however, we would have more influence. Just trying to find ways to protect the people from these predatory schemes and maybe get in on having the same considerations when we screw up, that they get. Seems only fair.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
23. Please keep us informed, Sabrina.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 08:42 PM
Feb 2012

I never figured Schneiderman was telling the unvarnished truth when he claimed that the banks paid 25 BILLION and are STILL fully open to all investigations and lawsuits. It doesn't pass the smell test.

Why would the banks agree to pay that without being taken off the hook? Makes no sense.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
24. Well, Schneiderman does deserve a lot of credit for his position on all of this over
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:03 PM
Feb 2012

the past year. So it was puzzling to see him appear to cave eventually. Because of what I've known about him due to my friend's situation, (she is in Upstate NY) I have respect for him generally. Had he not held out, eg, the banks would have been completely off the hook last year with a settlement of around 8 billion dollars, a drop in the bucket and little chance of them being held accountable at all.

He himself filed a big case against MERS eg, and way past time. This seems like not a bad settlement, if he is accurate in saying this is just the beginning and that it does not prevent homeowners from filing their own suits. Nor does it get those responsible for the Financial Meltdown off the hook. He has called this a 'down-payment' and says the Banks are going to have to pay out a lot more before all this is over.

He also credits Occupy for backing him up during the time he was under pressure from the WH to go along with the original deal. And he says, without Occupy, the change in the attitude towards getting accountability would not have happened.

What I am not sure of now is whether or not someone like my friend, can still use the robo-signing, if it occurred in her case, in her lawsuit.

However, there was a case filed just this past week against a CEO who is now charged criminally with robo-signing, over one hundred counts. When asked last night by Rachel Maddow if that case would now be in jeopardy, he said 'no, not at all'. That seems to say that criminal charges for robo-signing can still go forward. It does not answer MY question though, re civil cases.

Maybe I will call his office tomorrow and ask that queston

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
26. Getting off the hook vis a vis robo-signing would be no small thing.
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:05 PM
Feb 2012

It was great of Schneiderman to give that credit to Occupy WS, yes!

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
27. I agree, but he seemed to be saying that even on the Robo-signing
Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:07 PM
Feb 2012

which was the issue in this settlement, they are not off the hook for criminal charges. I do agree though, that if it is removed from civil cases, it will not be a small thing. I will try to keep you updated on what my friend's situation is and how this might affect it

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