Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 06:17 PM Jun 2013

Colonoscopies Explain Why U.S. Leads the World in Health Expenditures

MERRICK, N.Y. — Deirdre Yapalater’s recent colonoscopy at a surgical center near her home here on Long Island went smoothly: she was whisked from pre-op to an operating room where a gastroenterologist, assisted by an anesthesiologist and a nurse, performed the routine cancer screening procedure in less than an hour. The test, which found nothing worrisome, racked up what is likely her most expensive medical bill of the year: $6,385.

That is fairly typical: in Keene, N.H., Matt Meyer’s colonoscopy was billed at $7,563.56. Maggie Christ of Chappaqua, N.Y., received $9,142.84 in bills for the procedure. In Durham, N.C., the charges for Curtiss Devereux came to $19,438, which included a polyp removal. While their insurers negotiated down the price, the final tab for each test was more than $3,500.

“Could that be right?” said Ms. Yapalater, stunned by charges on the statement on her dining room table. Although her insurer covered the procedure and she paid nothing, her health care costs still bite: Her premium payments jumped 10 percent last year, and rising co-payments and deductibles are straining the finances of her middle-class family, with its mission-style house in the suburbs and two S.U.V.’s parked outside. “You keep thinking it’s free,” she said. “We call it free, but of course it’s not.”

In many other developed countries, a basic colonoscopy costs just a few hundred dollars and certainly well under $1,000. That chasm in price helps explain why the United States is far and away the world leader in medical spending, even though numerous studies have concluded that Americans do not get better care.
more
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/health/colonoscopies-explain-why-us-leads-the-world-in-health-expenditures.html?_r=0

74 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Colonoscopies Explain Why U.S. Leads the World in Health Expenditures (Original Post) n2doc Jun 2013 OP
Yet many here are claiming the cost of healthcare is from people getting these tests BrotherIvan Jun 2013 #1
I dont believe ACA does much of anything to reduce costs davidn3600 Jun 2013 #21
Here, ProSense Jun 2013 #54
Excellent Article marions ghost Jun 2013 #2
Article really hits a nerve on medical care costs in US matt819 Jun 2013 #3
we need single payer healthcare. We need to force clinics and hospitals to disclose prices and liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #4
You shouldn't shop around adieu Jun 2013 #18
Hospitals are charging hundreds of dollars for an aspirin. We need to be able to liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #22
But that same hospital adieu Jun 2013 #24
then that needs to be part of the transparency. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #27
Holy shit! graywarrior Jun 2013 #5
Bad! ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #15
Thank you. Thank you very much. graywarrior Jun 2013 #19
those cats are in my FACE again Skittles Jun 2013 #45
Are you yelling or just excited to see me? graywarrior Jun 2013 #53
Healthcare in America is an industry - a profiteeering crime Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #6
Guess how much it costs for a colonoscopy in Hong Kong, one of the most capitalistic places on earth 2bornot2b Jun 2013 #7
Talk about taking it up the.... SCVDem Jun 2013 #8
"Please roll up your sleeve and bend over." longship Jun 2013 #9
It's aliens, I tell ya. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #10
Bush brain scans are largely an unnecessary money maker meow2u3 Jun 2013 #11
BOHICA, literally. nt awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #12
i just cancelled my appt for one. Can't afford it. progressoid Jun 2013 #13
This just makes me sick. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #14
i'm 71 and never had one either and DesertFlower Jun 2013 #16
Great minds think alike. I've read flu shots may present a problem for "mature" folks. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #17
no history of breast cancer. i did get DesertFlower Jun 2013 #20
I'm not going to "flame" you, but I wll say this. Once I turned fifty, I had the procedure done SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #25
no history of colon cancer either and to be honest DesertFlower Jun 2013 #29
I can understand you desire to "not know" if anything is wrong. Many people I know have that SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #38
thank you for your kind words. DesertFlower Jun 2013 #39
My father thought looking out for his general health meant he didn't need to go to the liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #32
I'm with you, just a little younger, 64. SheilaT Jun 2013 #26
I see your problem. Curmudgeoness Jun 2013 #31
Um, my friend fortunately had a mammogram... a la izquierda Jun 2013 #47
There are ALWAYS exceptions, but mammograms @ that age are NOT recommended Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #55
There is a risk associated with colonoscopies lunasun Jun 2013 #30
There is a risk of puncturing your colon Curmudgeoness Jun 2013 #34
They also don't sterilize between uses, they only disinfect. roamer65 Jun 2013 #37
What's the difference between sterilize and disinfect? (n/t) Jim Lane Jun 2013 #43
Steam and pressure that kills all bacteria and virus. roamer65 Jun 2013 #52
Damaging the colon, and risk from anesthesia, if they use that. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #56
thank you all & learned some things here I usually don't hear about lunasun Jun 2013 #64
There are families where entire generations of siblings have died of heritable colorectal cancer Nimajneb Nilknarf Jun 2013 #49
Of course. The normal rules don't apply to those high risk cases. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #57
My dad died from colon cancer at 66 exboyfil Jun 2013 #51
You are in a high risk category. The normal rules don't apply to you. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #58
Hospital conglomerates are a big part of the cost problem. Flatulo Jun 2013 #23
Mind-boggling adric mutelovic Jun 2013 #28
My sister coded on a colonoscopy. Destroyed her liver AND kidneys. These are NOT benign tests riderinthestorm Jun 2013 #33
A colonoscopy definitely can be a double edge sword. roamer65 Jun 2013 #35
15 months post-op and she IS doing well!! Thanks!! nt riderinthestorm Jun 2013 #40
That's why it's always important to choose one's doctor carefully for any risky procedure Nimajneb Nilknarf Jun 2013 #50
Cal Pacific Med Center in San Francisco. One of the best out there riderinthestorm Jun 2013 #72
What does "coded" mean? You mean it punctured her colon? Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #59
She died during the procedure. "Code blue" means an emergency resuscitation team is needed stat riderinthestorm Jun 2013 #71
Oh, no. I'm so sorry to hear that. Wow, that's scary. (shudder) Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #73
She had undiagnosed hemolytic anemia so she basically hemorrhaged as soon as they took 1st polyp riderinthestorm Jun 2013 #74
All those charges and healthcare groups still lose money. ileus Jun 2013 #36
I hope that by the time I have to have another one ThoughtCriminal Jun 2013 #41
Next time get prescribed SUPREP Submariner Jun 2013 #42
I've read there is now a virtual colonoscopy. I don't know if it's being used yet. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #60
As I understand it... ThoughtCriminal Jun 2013 #68
We thought there was no history of colon cancer in our family Sugarcoated Jun 2013 #44
so sorry about your sister, Sugarcoated Skittles Jun 2013 #46
Wow, your brother is extremely lucky. Sugarcoated Jun 2013 #62
definitely keep up with those checkups! Skittles Jun 2013 #70
There are less riskier, less invasive tests that are almost as good. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #61
It's not as risky as it's being discussed here Sugarcoated Jun 2013 #63
I have the fecal test, which finds cancer but not polyps. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #66
I avoided a colonoscopy for fifteen years Silver Swan Jun 2013 #67
I think this is for tax purposes and they can write off the difference as a "loss" cbdo2007 Jun 2013 #48
No, it wouldn't affect their taxes. Jim Lane Jun 2013 #65
I'm having a colonoscopy on Tuesday Cronus Protagonist Jun 2013 #69

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
1. Yet many here are claiming the cost of healthcare is from people getting these tests
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 06:40 PM
Jun 2013

Not from the medical complex which is charging too much. Can someone please point out where in the ACA we address these costs? Thanks.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
21. I dont believe ACA does much of anything to reduce costs
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:48 PM
Jun 2013

The purpose of the law was not necessarily to make healthcare cheaper, but to expand it to make sure everyone has access.

Cost is a different ball of wax and far more complicated.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
54. Here,
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:59 AM
Jun 2013

"Not from the medical complex which is charging too much. Can someone please point out where in the ACA we address these costs? Thanks."

...information on colonoscopies and the ACA:

Here’s one way Obamacare changed today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251288922

matt819

(10,749 posts)
3. Article really hits a nerve on medical care costs in US
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 06:59 PM
Jun 2013

Edited to change title, which copied the title from the previous post.

Good article, part of a series.

The problem of addressing THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM - bold, all caps, spoken out loud in scary voice - is where to begin. Depending on who you are, where you are, insurance coverage, etc., it's tough to know where to begin. Costs, of course. Lack of transparency. No effective free market options - really, are you going to shop around for surgery?. Insurance.

This article addresses the 30,000 foot view to some point, but it really brings it home for individual medical consumers and the problems they face, in a way that pretty much most of us here can appreciate on a personal level.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
4. we need single payer healthcare. We need to force clinics and hospitals to disclose prices and
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 07:02 PM
Jun 2013

we need to create a system that makes it easy to shop around and compare those prices.

 

adieu

(1,009 posts)
18. You shouldn't shop around
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:43 PM
Jun 2013

This is your body, fergawdsakes. You think you should get a cheapie colonoscopy at Al's Kwik-e Colonoscope-R-Us? Prices should be pretty much the same anywhere around the country.

And certainly, considering how Jiffy-Lube and Oil-Changers gouge their customers by billing them for services not provided, we MUST NEVER have a for-profit medical system.

I don't mind a for-profit optometry store, because all I'm buying there are glasses, and you know whether the glasses you bought works or not. There's very little medical uncertainty in buying glasses (or even contact lenses). But how can you accept or trust a person who says, "Tests look fine, but look at this x-ray (you don't know how to read x-rays), see these dots? They could be trouble. How about we schedule a intra-fulmenitic scan to check out those dots. Could be nothing, but we can't be too careful, right?" Then they hit you with a $2000 bill for checking something that they either know is nothing of concern or they don't even bother to do the checking. You sit in some BS contraption and then they say, "Well, looks all right. But come back in 6 months and we'll revisit it."

What are you going to do? If it's a for-profit business that you just went to, do you trust their claims or do you go looking around for another doctor to check things out? If the other says it's not worth considering, who do you trust? And what if you already paid $4000 for the scan and some additional tests? How do you get that money back, if at all?

It's disgusting. Medical services must be non-profit and be publicly funded. We're far rich enough to fund medical services for all people in the US, including illegal aliens, and not require any additional taxes or fees. Just cut the insurance providers and the pharmas out of the loop.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
22. Hospitals are charging hundreds of dollars for an aspirin. We need to be able to
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:48 PM
Jun 2013

identify the hospitals that are charging what they should be charging so we can go to them.

 

adieu

(1,009 posts)
24. But that same hospital
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:54 PM
Jun 2013

could charge *you* $100 for an aspirin, but charge *me* just $10 or even $1. There's currently no rhyme or reason. And if you go to a hospital (as if you have a choice here in some cases) where you know a friend was charged only $1 for aspirin, you could still be charged $100 for your aspirin, not that you go to a hospital to get an aspirin.

It all depends on your health care coverage, your insurer, your ailment and a whole host of other factors. If you're over a barrel in your ailment, then they know they can squeeze you. If they know you earn such and such amount, they'll squeeze you.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
27. then that needs to be part of the transparency.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:59 PM
Jun 2013

If they charge one person $100 for an apirin because they have different insurance then let them post a chart that says for this insurance you will pay this and for this insurance you will pay that. Doing this will also help us shop around for better insurance(although as I stated above I think we should have single payer healthcare, but even so we still need transparency). We should know what we are being charged. Knowledge is power.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
6. Healthcare in America is an industry - a profiteeering crime
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 07:21 PM
Jun 2013

you pay by the stitch. The American people are happy not to do anything about this situation.

2bornot2b

(8 posts)
7. Guess how much it costs for a colonoscopy in Hong Kong, one of the most capitalistic places on earth
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 07:46 PM
Jun 2013

In a government hospital, it costs ...

HK$150 - or less than US$20 !!!!

longship

(40,416 posts)
9. "Please roll up your sleeve and bend over."
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:02 PM
Jun 2013

I get that all the time. It's like Dr. Jellyfingers all over again.


"I can't seem to find anything wrong with you, Mr. Babar."

"Well, I'm sure it's not for the lack of looking."

Let's all sing a chorus of "Moon River" in honor of Dr. Jellyfingers.

meow2u3

(24,764 posts)
11. Bush brain scans are largely an unnecessary money maker
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:06 PM
Jun 2013

I wouldn't be surprised if the doctors ordering colonoscopies have stock in the companies that sell the devices.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
14. This just makes me sick.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:28 PM
Jun 2013

Colonoscopies are big business these days. I keep getting pressured to have one by my GYN and GP. I have refused so far. It's a racket, as far as I can tell. Yes, I might get colon cancer. I also might get a lot of things I'm not being screened for (brain cancer, bone cancer, etc.). But I'm not high risk, and I do another test, as well as try to live a low-risk lifestyle.

They are so insistent that I figure it's the money and not the need of the test.

There is a risk associated with colonoscopies. Risk must be weighed against benefit. It's a good test. But it's my decision, not anyone else's. And unless the dr is going to pay whatever I may have to end up paying, and unless the dr is going to come pick me up and take me home, it's none of his/her business.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
16. i'm 71 and never had one either and
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:32 PM
Jun 2013

have no intention of having one. i stopped pap smears and mammograms years ago too.

i don't get flu shots either.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
17. Great minds think alike. I've read flu shots may present a problem for "mature" folks.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:37 PM
Jun 2013

I've also read that the need for pap smears ends at a certain point, and they should be given/taken only every several years before then. My GYN still insists on doing that every year.

I get mammograms, since there is SOME breast cancer history in my family, but the radiation concerns me. I started getting pressured in my 30's to get mammograms! Imagine that! Not only is there no need for that at that age, all that radiation poses a risk (although small).

It's really a profit racket. Sometimes I ask myself, when a dr recommends something...would this dr be recommending that if it were free? Sometimes I know he wouldn't. Still, it works. They beat you down by continuing to ask or insist, year after year.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
20. no history of breast cancer. i did get
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:45 PM
Jun 2013

a pneumonia shot. back in late 80s early 90s had pneumonia 3 times in 4 years. have some scaring on my lungs.

i had a doc years ago who made me sign my name saying that she recommended a colonoscopy.

my primary doc understands how i feel and he doesn't bug me. i made my feelings very clear on our first visit.

i've also instructed my granddaughter who has my medical power of attorney that if i have a heart attack and they want to do open heart surgery she is to tell them "no -- just keep her comfortable". my 2nd executor who is a friend has been told the same thing.

i'm probably going to get "flamed".

SlimJimmy

(3,180 posts)
25. I'm not going to "flame" you, but I wll say this. Once I turned fifty, I had the procedure done
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:56 PM
Jun 2013

because we have a history of colon cancer in the family. The procedure went smoothly, the doc said everything is okay and see you in ten years. For me, it was worth the cost since we have that history.

For others, it's their call. But I would always caution on the side of knowing, rather than hoping my generally healthy lifestyle would keep me safe.

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
29. no history of colon cancer either and to be honest
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:17 PM
Jun 2013

if i had it i wouldn't want to know. same with other illnesses. i have several health problems -- nothing that will kill me, i.e., CFS/ME, IBS, herniated discs, scoliosis. i spend a lot of time lying in bed watching tv or occasionally posting on DU.

my dear husband of almost 42 years passed last year from an inoperable brain tumor (glioblastoma). he came home from work -- had a seizure and 3 months later he was gone. between feeling crappy most of the time and losing my soul mate i don't have much of a desire to live. right now i'm here to take care of my cat. after that....... who knows?

SlimJimmy

(3,180 posts)
38. I can understand you desire to "not know" if anything is wrong. Many people I know have that
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:57 PM
Jun 2013

view. I'm just one of those persons that like to be as proactive as possible. And since I had a history of that type of cancer in my family, I erred on the side of caution.

With that said, I wish you the best in your current situation. Losing someone we love is a difficult and painful time. Remember, though, that there are always people out there that care what happens to you, want to offer support, and wish for you a meaningful life. I'm certainly one of those folks. Stay well, try to take it a day at a time, and give the kitty a hug for me.


liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
32. My father thought looking out for his general health meant he didn't need to go to the
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:24 PM
Jun 2013

doctor. Come to find out he has been experiencing mini strokes. He didn't even know he had had them until he started losing some vision and went to the eye doctor.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
26. I'm with you, just a little younger, 64.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:58 PM
Jun 2013

I basically never go to a doctor, other than four years ago when I tripped in my driveway and broke my arm (non-displaced hairline fracture). I do not get flu shots, and interestingly enough, I never get the flu. Maybe that's because I DID get flu decades ago, several different times, and now have good immunity.

I am going to see about getting the shingles shot. For me, personally, it seems like a good idea. My younger son actually got a case of shingles several years ago when he was 20, poor thing.

I am aware I have somewhat high cholesterol, and a few years ago my blood pressure spiked, but I refuse to medicalize those conditions and keep falling back on the fact that I'm still the healthiest person I know. I still do headstands at my age.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
31. I see your problem.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:23 PM
Jun 2013

You have a GYN. Just stop going to him/her.

I have never been pressured to have anything done, although if I feel that it is a good idea, I will agree to it. I have never had a mammogram, I haven't had a Pap test for 20 years. I did have a colonoscopy last year, and that was nearly 10 years after they told me it was time to have one at age 50. But I had to be given a very good reason for it, and beyond the fact that my mom died from colon cancer, the doc did have a good enough reason for me to agree. I ended up with GERD, and had to go to a gastro doc to see what was causing me problems. He was insisting that I have the colonoscopy at the same time I had the endoscopy. I refused. He was shocked and asked why. I flat out told him that if we did find cancer, I was not going to treat it, and since I felt fine, I did not want to find something and ruin what life I have left. His response was that the colonoscopy can find pre-cancerous polyps, that can be removed and prevent the cancer. Made sense.

What I am saying is that it is possible to say no, especially if you have a good reason for refusing and the doctor has no good reason for insisting beyond "it is recommended". Do your research on what is and is not right for you to do. Doctors are just covering their asses.

a la izquierda

(11,795 posts)
47. Um, my friend fortunately had a mammogram...
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 08:20 AM
Jun 2013

at 35, which detected cancer in both breasts. She had no family history.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
55. There are ALWAYS exceptions, but mammograms @ that age are NOT recommended
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:43 AM
Jun 2013

by the cancer org., whatever it's called. The reasons being cost vs. benefit (almost no benefit), and harm vs. benefit (there's almost no benefit, and there is harm from being radiated). The radiation does a bit of damage every time you're exposed. It builds up over the years. There are few cases of breast cancer in that age group among people who are not high risk. It's possible your friend was high risk for some other reasons, or that there is a family history she's unaware of (few of us know what our great grandparents suffered from). Then there's the exception.

I was finally talked into getting one in my 30's, to use as a base of comparison for later mammograms. Later, when I requested the films to use for comparison...guess what? They don't keep mammogram films that long! It was a lie all along. It's just a racket.

I ask myself: Would this dr insist on this test, if it had to be given for free?

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
30. There is a risk associated with colonoscopies
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:22 PM
Jun 2013

what are they?
I never heard anyone mention it.....do u mind saying ?
(besides a big medical bill )

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
34. There is a risk of puncturing your colon
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:27 PM
Jun 2013

which will dump shit into your torso, and that is very serious if not fatal.

I did ask my gastro doctor about the chance of this, and he said that it could happen but was not something that happened often. When I said that was not reassuring, he said not to worry, if it happened, he would have me in surgery to repair it in no time at all. Lovely.

There is always the chance also of reactions or other problems with anesthesia, as will any procedure.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
52. Steam and pressure that kills all bacteria and virus.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:55 AM
Jun 2013

Versus just soaking in a disinfecting solution which may not get them all.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
56. Damaging the colon, and risk from anesthesia, if they use that.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:45 AM
Jun 2013

Any invasive medical procedure has a risk. No exceptions. The risk may be small, but it's there.

And cost is no small thing. That is always a consideration. Cost vs. benefit.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
64. thank you all & learned some things here I usually don't hear about
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 11:24 AM
Jun 2013

...as usual....
Wondering if most folks are counseled about the risks before the procedure( or maybe they do sign some form ) .

 

Nimajneb Nilknarf

(319 posts)
49. There are families where entire generations of siblings have died of heritable colorectal cancer
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:43 AM
Jun 2013

For their descendents, siblings, and cousins, getting screened for the disease is worth whatever it costs.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
57. Of course. The normal rules don't apply to those high risk cases.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:46 AM
Jun 2013

High risk people have a separate set of rules. For example, if a person is not a high risk for colon cancer, there are other tests besides colonoscopy that are okay to use, according to the cancer society. If you are high risk, though, a colonoscopy is what is recommended, it being the best and most complete.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
51. My dad died from colon cancer at 66
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:54 AM
Jun 2013

that was not caught in time. I am 50 and have had two colonoscopies and one sigmoidoscopy. I plan to have them the rest of my life - every five years.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
58. You are in a high risk category. The normal rules don't apply to you.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:48 AM
Jun 2013

I and most others are fortunately not high risk. Doesn't mean we won't get it. We might. Might also get a brain tumor, lung cancer, a rare carcinoma, melanoma, or any number of things. There are no guarantees.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
23. Hospital conglomerates are a big part of the cost problem.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 08:52 PM
Jun 2013

Once venture capital started buying up all the hospitals in a geographic region, and of course, paring the nursing staff to the bone (where will the money come from to pay off the principals), insurance companies lost a lot of negotiating power, since they were always dealing with the same people. There's no real competition when all the facilities are part of the same system.

Hospital conglomerates produce absolutely nothing but huge profits for the investors, and human misery for the employees and patients. When Vanguard bought up all our local hospitals, there was a bloodbath of epic proportions. Patient outcomes suffered terribly, until the nurse's unions struck to restore sane staffing levels.

You want some guy with a business degree dictating how many nurses are in your ward?

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
33. My sister coded on a colonoscopy. Destroyed her liver AND kidneys. These are NOT benign tests
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:26 PM
Jun 2013

There are risks and performing them "for profit" disgusts me.

Our family had no history of colon cancer but my RN sister was persuaded that at 60 yrs old she better be pro-active. So she scheduled the colonoscopy.

Don't EVER let anyone pressure you into a test that you think isn't necessary.

She recently had a double kidney/liver transplant with all THAT attendant cost, pain, and woe.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
35. A colonoscopy definitely can be a double edge sword.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:38 PM
Jun 2013

On the one hand you want to make sure that you don't have colon cancer, but you do run the risk complications especially perforation. They are treated too casually by providers, IMHO. I said no to one recently and was glad I did. It wouldn't have helped the diagnosis one bit. I've had two of them that has been enough!

I hope your sister is well

 

Nimajneb Nilknarf

(319 posts)
50. That's why it's always important to choose one's doctor carefully for any risky procedure
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:45 AM
Jun 2013

Generally the doctor who has done the procedure the most times is the one least likely to make a bad mistake.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
72. Cal Pacific Med Center in San Francisco. One of the best out there
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:35 PM
Jun 2013

No mistakes were made. She simply reacted terribly to the meds, drugs and the procedure. There is a statistical risk with any procedure. She just hit the bad lottery.



Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
59. What does "coded" mean? You mean it punctured her colon?
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:50 AM
Jun 2013

So sorry to hear that. That has been a concern of mine, about colonoscopies. A risk, though small, may be fine IF there's a good reason for the test. I haven't been convinced, yet.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
71. She died during the procedure. "Code blue" means an emergency resuscitation team is needed stat
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:31 PM
Jun 2013

They didn't puncture her colon - she simply reacted very, very badly to the meds and the procedure.

Since a colonoscopy is usually a routine procedure and she wasn't in a part of the hospital associated with high risk procedures, it took a med team 10 minutes to get there so she suffered massive organ failure in the mean time.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
73. Oh, no. I'm so sorry to hear that. Wow, that's scary. (shudder)
Mon Jun 3, 2013, 08:00 PM
Jun 2013

Every time I think of getting cosmetic surgery, as I have gotten older, I consider the risks associated with any procedure, even seemingly safe ones.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
74. She had undiagnosed hemolytic anemia so she basically hemorrhaged as soon as they took 1st polyp
Mon Jun 3, 2013, 09:00 PM
Jun 2013

She contracted Hep C as an RN student decades ago which was a non-issue for so long she never gave it a thought.

Turns out her "chronic exhaustion" (which is what sparked the physical, which is why she was recommended for a routine colonoscopy) was really a much bigger issue.

Nobody was at fault. Nobody was sued.

But don't let anyone be fooled: this is a surgical procedure and there ARE risks....

(and CO$T$!!!)

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
41. I hope that by the time I have to have another one
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 10:18 PM
Jun 2013

I don't have to spend a day trying to drink a few gallons of lemon-lime yak spit.


Submariner

(12,504 posts)
42. Next time get prescribed SUPREP
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 11:03 PM
Jun 2013

$82 for 2 pints of a citrus/licorice tasting yak spit, instead of 2 gallons.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
60. I've read there is now a virtual colonoscopy. I don't know if it's being used yet.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:51 AM
Jun 2013

It'll be interesting to know if it's as thorough, when it starts being used widely.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
68. As I understand it...
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 12:47 PM
Jun 2013

You still have to go through the same prep (yak spit) - which is actually the most unpleasant part of the procedure. And if the virtual colonoscopy shows anything suspicious, you have to go through it again with the traditional method. I'd rather just do it once and have the polyps removed at the same time.




Sugarcoated

(7,724 posts)
44. We thought there was no history of colon cancer in our family
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 01:27 AM
Jun 2013

and then my sister was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer, passed away 13 months later. I had my first colonoscopy at 37, and polyps were found. If I'd waited till the recommended 50, they very well could've developed into cancer. That's probably how it happened with my sister, but polyps at an earlier age that took years to grow into tumor(s). I've had them every 3 yrs since, which I think may have been a bit much, but since no more polyps have developed, the next one's in 5 yrs.Colon cancer is very curable caught early...what my poor sis went through was heart breaking, but she was misdiagnosed with IBS because she was so young. I say get at least a test at 40, you want to catch it early. If nothing's there, don't have another for 10 years, maybe longer. I think it's a great diagnostic tool.

Skittles

(153,164 posts)
46. so sorry about your sister, Sugarcoated
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 02:44 AM
Jun 2013

you did good; when I had my first they found two polyps, and I urged my 11-months younger than me brother to get one - he waited three years and they ended up taking 14 inches of his colon out due to a mass - horrible to think what might of happened if he'd waited even longer

Sugarcoated

(7,724 posts)
62. Wow, your brother is extremely lucky.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 11:03 AM
Jun 2013

My younger brother has had them regularly, the older one waited years after our Sis died (she was 36) he didn't really talk about the results. I think they may have found some things, but luckily early enough. I get my pap smears, mammograms, etc. That's just me, I'm not telling anyone else to, but I think it's risky to shun check ups and baseline tests. Thank you Skittles, btw, the world is much less fun without my girl.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
61. There are less riskier, less invasive tests that are almost as good.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:56 AM
Jun 2013

There is no need for a non-high risk person to get a colonoscopy. There is always the exception...a person can get anything at any time (brain tumor, melanoma, a rare carcinoma, lung cancer). There are no guarantees.

But if someone is concerned and wants to be tested, there are several tests that are almost as good as colonoscopy but cost a lot less and have less risk (or no risk).

I am tested every year in a non-invasive way, at my annual GYN exam. I would guess that your sister was not, given her age. Had she been so tested, that test WOULD have picked up her colon cancer, although at a later stage than a colonoscopy would have. And that test would've cost her ins. co less than $100, and would've been free to her (part of her preventive annual GYN exam). Risk vs. cost vs. benefit.

Sugarcoated

(7,724 posts)
63. It's not as risky as it's being discussed here
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 11:16 AM
Jun 2013

but yes, any invasive procedures have risks. Colonoscopy requires no cutting, and if the Dr knows what he's doing, the chances for problems is very minimal.

What non-invasive test are referring to?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
66. I have the fecal test, which finds cancer but not polyps.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 11:40 AM
Jun 2013

There's a list of the tests on the American Cancer Society site. There are several tests that find cancer AND polyps. Then there are some tests that just find cancer.

The ones that find cancer AND polyps:
Colonoscopy
Barium enema
Sigmoidoscopy
Virtual colonoscopy

The ones that find only cancer:
Fecal occult blood test
Fecal immunochemical test


http://www.cancer.org/cancer/colonandrectumcancer/moreinformation/colonandrectumcancerearlydetection/colorectal-cancer-early-detection-screening-tests-used

I am over 50, so colonoscopy is what's recommended for me. However, I've chosen not to do that. That's my choice because of my personal situation, my beliefs, etc. Most choose to get it. I am not high risk in any other category besides age. Instead, I do the FOBT yearly. The main problem for me is....I have no one to pick me up, so it's a huge deal for me to get anything done where I can't drive home. It requires me imposing on a friend to take off work (which costs them). I would do it, if I had to. But I don't feel it's necessary. I also feel I'm already at risk enough from all the radiation from repeated mammograms, and an x-ray treatment I rec'd at birth. I don't want to take on more risk from medical testing. I could end up getting colon cancer. But I could also get brain cancer, MS, melanoma, lung cancer, or anything at all. I'm just as likely to get those things. So I do normal checkups, mammograms and such, but I have drawn the line at having every orifice in my body tested in such a way that I need anesthesia.

Silver Swan

(1,110 posts)
67. I avoided a colonoscopy for fifteen years
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 12:30 PM
Jun 2013

But when I was 65 I was diagnosed with breast cancer.

I decided I was more afraid of colon cancer than breast cancer, so I scheduled a colonoscopy. It did find some polyps, which were removed, and I am to return in five years.

Two days before I had mine, a friend had one, which perforated her colon, requiring surgery. I didn't hear about that until later.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
48. I think this is for tax purposes and they can write off the difference as a "loss"
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:40 AM
Jun 2013

so they pay less taxes. Example - They bill $7,500 even though insurance will only pay $3,500 = $4,000 "loss".

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
65. No, it wouldn't affect their taxes.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 11:25 AM
Jun 2013

A cash basis taxpayer would have reportable income only on the amount actually received.

The hospital is more likely an accrual basis taxpayer, and would indeed have a deductible loss, but would have reportable income for the full amount of the bill. The artificially inflated deduction would merely net out the artificially inflate income. The net increase in taxable income would be the amount actually received, regardless of the amount of the initial bill.

Cronus Protagonist

(15,574 posts)
69. I'm having a colonoscopy on Tuesday
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 12:59 PM
Jun 2013

This will be my fourth this year. I've also had a barium enema, a CT scan and a sigmoidoscopy, and I had a tumor removed that was larger than a golf ball, smaller than a tennis ball, as well as a few polyps. The tumor removal with colonoscopy cost just over $6,000 and included the procedure full anesthesia as well as an overnight stay in the hospital and all the meds. That price was limited by Obamacare and also Obamacare paid for it, and I am extremely grateful and relieved to be fully cured. Thank you Obama!

Tuesday's colonoscopy is the follow-up after the tumor removal. I know it's good because I'm now symptom free and my malnourishment is gone, so this next colonoscopy is just to clean up the details, if any.

I would advise anyone who gets a recommendation for a colonoscopy from their doctor to get it. Just do it. It's not painful, just a little uncomfortable. The laxative pre-op prep is the worst part of it.

During the procedure, I usually crack jokes all the way through. Once you get over the fact that there's 6 people in the room all looking up your butt, it can be quite amusing. At least I try to make it so.

Why rush into a colonoscopy? Well, if you do have cancer, it might only be on the mucosal layer of the colon, if you catch it early. Once it's breached the wall of the colon, the cancer can spread, most likely to your liver, and then the prognosis is short and fatal. So get it before it grows a stalk and breaches the colon. Just do it. And do it early. It saved my life.

And if you like Star Trek stuff, as I do, a barium enema fluoroscopy is amazing - you can see your entire colon in full 3D in real time, moving on the screen as you move. It's fascinating, as I'm sure Mr. Spock would say. The worst part about that procedure is the balloon up the ass and the gas coming out of all orifices afterwards. Oh, and afterwards, you shit all white, just like I'm sure the Pope does!



Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Colonoscopies Explain Why...