What the hell is wrong with John Kerry?

[CTyankee]

Joe Scarborough was using his coming out against the HHS ruling as "proof" that it's not just conservative states Dems doing it. Look at liberal Massachusetts, sez he. Mika then mumbled sarcastically, "well I wonder what Teresa thinks!"

Not to mention all the liberal women in MA who worked for him both in his Senate runs and his Presidential campaign, like my daughter who lives there.

Kerry certainly knows that the far right wing Catholics won't vote for him anyway. WTF?

I'm beginning to wonder about these Catholic men. I never thought they could be this antideluvian, this twelfth century, about Catholic teachings in this day and age.

Something is very, very wrong...

[matmar]

1. John Kerry is part of the 1%

[Rex]

31. Very good point.

nt

[stevenleser]

35. Correction: He is one of the many good guys who are 1%'ers. OWS is not against the 1%

OWS is against policies that benefit the 1% at the expense of the 99%. Kerry has never done that.

[hughee99]

47. Exactly!

Family trusts and shell companies that own privately used assets to avoid taxes, docking a yacht in a neighboring state to pay lower excise taxes, that's not who John Kerry is.

[YvonneCa]

49. Thank you. IMHO, people who think that need to do some...

...serious research on his life and voting record.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

2. Kerry?

Yeah



As long as he's not pushing Rubio's bill, I guess I can live with some dissension in the ranks. Is he supporting Obama's "compromise" idea that he is reportedly floating?

[CTyankee]

3. who the hell knows?

All I know is that he went very public with this and that he has been prochoice. I can only wonder at some deep down feeling about the Church's power that I do not understand myself.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

5. Have any women come out against this regulation?

All I'm hearing from are men so far. I'm surprised at some of the "liberals" coming out against this.

[ProSense]

13. One

<...>

Sens. Tom Carper of Delaware, Bill Nelson of Florida, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Claire McCaskill of Missouri on Thursday became the latest Democrats to indicate they want to see the administration go back to the negotiating table.

“There’s time to get this worked out in a way that respects religious freedom, but also makes sure that women can get birth control,” McCaskill told reporters. “I’m hoping that they will find a compromise where there would be notice or riders or some way that we could get there.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72704.html#ixzz1lzpZB0zh

[blm]

12. CT...read my post below why it was so unusually public.

Especially when you consider that Kerry and Santorum wrote the religious freedom bill some years back that would also cover freedoms for Muslims to worship without being fired or discriminated against in the workplace. WH likely used Kerry's knowledge of dealing with Santorum during that time to get a step up.

[karynnj]

26. Did you read the TPM article that this is based on?

The only Kerry quote out there, to my knowledge, is his one:

""In a statement, Kerry said, "I think the Administration is working towards a final rule that reflects a reasonable compromise. I think there's a way to protect everybody's interest here. I think you can implement it effectively in a way that protects women's access, but at the same time protects people's religious beliefs, and that should be everyone’s goal.""


http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/kerry-becomes-latest-dem-to-oppose-obama-on

This does not sound like he knows what the compromise will be and does not even imply that he has spoken to anyone on it. To me, the problem is that TPM wrote a title not really justified by what Kerry actually said.

I suspect that, at a time where there were about 7 Democrats actually opposing the original plan, the author overreacted to Kerry, who has a 100% pro-choice record, which is remarkable because he is a religious Catholic, who refused to backtrack on allowing young pregnant girls to appeal to get abortions without parental approval (pointing out that there a cases where that is essential) and on "partial birth abortion (again explaining that happens when there is an overwhelming need) when he was asked in the debates to be President. His answer was very well crafted and explained why those things were needed. He voted against PPA because there was no exemption for the mother's health being in jeopardy. That was a vote MANY Democrats did not make - and he did not have to make - and he knew it would hurt in a Presidential run - and was one reason that he faced some bishops calling for denying him communion.

Only when the WH compromise is known, will it make sense for Kerry to agree or disagree - and Kerry understands more than anyone the minefield that Obama faces.

[roguevalley]

62. fuck this. just another man with his head up someone's ass. I'm sick of men decreeing. Fuck him on

this. Since when do we all have to bow to the church? I'm not catholic but I know I would never agree to their blackmail even if I was. God, what a goober you are, Kerry.

[midnight]

66. Touche! Why in the world is this health care issue being bargained away?

[karynnj]

15. Yesterday, he simply said that he "thought" Obama was looking for a compromise

and then he added some rather nondescript comments about hoping a compromise would preserve a woman's access and everyone's rights. So, the OP is wrong - something that started with TPM overstating its title.

In a statement, Kerry said, "I think the Administration is working towards a final rule that reflects a reasonable compromise. I think there's a way to protect everybody's interest here. I think you can implement it effectively in a way that protects women's access, but at the same time protects people's religious beliefs, and that should be everyone’s goal.""

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/kerry-becomes-latest-dem-to-oppose-obama-on

In fact, it was in response to a question. To me, it looked like Kerry trying not to make news either way. At this point, the story is driven by the TPM title, nothing Kerry said. (The Biden quotes that were everywhere essentially mean Kerry first sentence is just stating fact. The rest is pretty neutral. )

[elleng]

20. Sounds like you're right, karynnj:

White House Contraceptive Regulation Fact Sheet

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/02/10/us/politics/10reuters-usa-contraceptives-factsheet.html?ref=reuters

[karynnj]

28. Actually Thank you,

I was so busy posting to correct yesterday's news that I didn't see or hear this.

Reading this, I think Obama took the issue away from the Catholic church altogether. I actually though (and posted) that I did not see how everything Kerry said should happen, could - but it did. It sounds like the Hawaii information is what really makes this work. It is pretty amazing to think that the costs actually went down for a large group of people - meaning the Republicans cn not argue that anyone - the church, the insurance company, the women - are harmed by this.

This is a wonderful solution.

[elleng]

34. I agree, wonderful solution,

and agree about Hawaii AND 'there was no increase in premiums when contraception was added to the Federal Employees Health Benefit System,' as that's me, (tho been a while since used this particular benefit!)

Think I'll post it 'up front.'

[karynnj]

36. Great - it should end a HUGE percent of the threads of this morning

Great victory for Obama -- and no one has to approve it. The Republicans will whine, but Obama comes out smelling like a rose on this. It actually improves the original plan as now ALL women get it - even if you work directly for the church - and he should get brownie points by listening to and working with the people who had a problem.

[elleng]

37. FUNNY!

Sending a DU pm.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

58. I like the compromise

And didn't like the original ruling, however, church employees still won't necessarily get coverage.

Female employees at churches themselves will have no guarantee of any contraception coverage -- a continuation of current law.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/10/politics/contraception-controversy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[CTyankee]

55. That would be helpful! This morning I just turned on MJ while I made coffee and

there was this screen with all these known anti choicers such as Bob Casey and there's Kerry's picture up there with them! My heart just sank! I had no idea of the REAL story and of course Scarborough didn't give up what Kerry REALLY said. The newspapers weren't too helpful either.

It was a real smear job on Kerry. I hope he demands to go on the show next Monday to object! Or at least one of his surrogates. It's really an outrage...

[CTyankee]

40. thanks. good explanation!

I don't want to think that Kerry is being intimidated by the bishops into betraying his long record on family planning and abortion rights. It just seemed like such a slap in the face!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

59. Thanks for supplying the context

I used to enjoy TPM but their headlines increasingly seem to have a tendency to not reflect the actual content of their actual articles.

[WI_DEM]

4. well, it's not 'liberal MA' that Kerry is worried about but 'Catholic MA' it is one of the most

Catholic states in the country.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. That why they call it

[font size=6]MASS[/font]achussetts?

[Fawke Em]

27. But it's already been established that most Catholics

either ignore the anti-birth control tenant and/or are in support of Obama's plan.

Why would Kerry care?

[ecstatic]

6. I think it's proof that the RW has taken ownership and framed the issue

we have to take back control of the framing. I think the "compromise" is a good idea, considering the confusion even amongst democrats. I hope people don't take this opportunity to turn on the President, because under the compromise, employees of Catholic institutions WILL have coverage. And let's not forget what the alternative to Obama is... (someone completely against birth control)

[elleng]

24. Probably.

The compromise:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/02/10/us/politics/10reuters-usa-contraceptives-factsheet.html?ref=reuters

[blm]

7. Knowing how this WH works, CT, it's likely that they wanted Kerry out there yesterday because

they had decided on a compromise on Wednesday that they would deliver on Friday. Kerry will come out and say that the compromise works for him. They've done this orchestration previously, because...hey, that's the business they're in. It's sometimes required.

[karynnj]

17. I don't think so this time

To me the actual Kerry comment sounds like Kerry was asked and answered as innocuously as possible. TPM, maybe frustrated with other Democrats who actually said it was a problem, lumped Kerry with them - and were especially aggravated because Kerry is Kerry.

In a statement, Kerry said, "I think the Administration is working towards a final rule that reflects a reasonable compromise. I think there's a way to protect everybody's interest here. I think you can implement it effectively in a way that protects women's access, but at the same time protects people's religious beliefs, and that should be everyone’s goal."" (from TPM)

As Biden was already saying that he was working on a compromise - and that Obama agreed, what Kerry did was to not undercut the President. Kerry is NOT saying he is against the rule, nor is he suggesting any specific compromise. He is simply being diplomatic - and answering the question honestly. As it is, from his "I think the administration" he is clearly implying that he does not even know for a fact that is a compromise, much less what it is. Not knowing that, he is NOT saying he is for the specific compromise offered. Given that a compromise was in the works, although I know that it would make Kerry more popular here, would it help Obama if Kerry rejected the idea out of hand that there should be any compromise?

I suspect that he, far more than most, understands the political minefield that Obama has to work around. The issue is likely not Massachusetts, but Ohio and Pennsylvania, where the margins are not huge for Obama and where this could be voting issue. The poll that Lawrence O'Donnell showed showed that when the question was asked referring to Catholic organizations it split 49/51 with Catholic voter. That is not good, but what is worse is that it could be that the RI, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey Catholics are not bothered by it - making the numbers look better nationwide than they would in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania.

[blm]

19. Well, to me it sounds like he was helping WH set the table for compromise.

And I think his participation in past Religious Freedom legislation made that position possible, especially since he worked on that bill with Santorum.

[CTyankee]

41. Oh, that would be excellent if it is true!

Of course, he won't get much love from the media. They'll just remind everybody how the Church wanted him denied communion back in the 04 election...

[ProSense]

9. I think

the media pundits are using a Kerry statement about the WH's willingness to compromise to claim that even he wants this.

Sure, it's one in the same in terms of ending the noise, but the media is trying to give the impression that the WH screwed up, and it doesn't hurt to hit Kerry also.

Screw the RW.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. I completely disagree

with him on this issue... but I don't expect to agree with anyone on everything.

Especially Democrats. I disagree with Republicans on just about everything- if not everything.

[politicasista]

48. Good post

at least you aren't attacking him like some (not all) O supporters are in this thread.

Was going to add something, but will just wishing him the best, especially with the MA people.

[Thrill]

11. I think he's hitting the bottle

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2012, 06:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Didnt he fall off a bike the other day?

[karynnj]

18. No he did not - nor has he ever had a history of substance abuse

He fell trying to avoid a pileup playing hockey with friends - something he's done for decades.

[YvonneCa]

50. No. n/t

[karynnj]

14. He didn't come out against it - here is the statement

"In a statement, Kerry said, "I think the Administration is working towards a final rule that reflects a reasonable compromise. I think there's a way to protect everybody's interest here. I think you can implement it effectively in a way that protects women's access, but at the same time protects people's religious beliefs, and that should be everyone’s goal.""

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/kerry-becomes-latest-dem-to-oppose-obama-on


To me, the problem is that TPM overstated it's headline. Kerry's statement here is obviously in reference to a question (an other article with part of the comment said Fox News, but didn't give the question. The answer seems to be in reference to what the Obama administration is doing - and it is far less explicit in favor of a compromise than Biden's comment. It is as nondescript a response as you can get and pretty vague.

TPM seems to be being quoted as Kerry being against the provision, when there is nothing he said that suggests that.

[blm]

22. Exactly...but, still careful to support WH compromise.

IMO, he knew that was coming from WH.

[Little Star]

29. I'm beginning to think a lot of people knew this was coming. Like MSNBC last night....

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2012, 03:49 PM - Edit history (2)

I had started a thread earlier about what I saw happening on MSNBC last night.

Here is the link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002292827

[karynnj]

30. You may be right - or he just happened to set the high bar he did

in what he thought they should do.

Did you see that Elleng posted the new compromise? - it is brilliant.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=293363

Other than Santorum's happiness, the compromise seems to be good for women, who get it free, for the church, which is not involved, for the insurance company - because it has been shown that this actually costs costs. Also for those really concerned about abortions, it has to cut them as well. (assuming any normal definition)

[blm]

33. yep.....and consistent with the Religious Freedom bill as I recall.

That will be useful down the line should Santorum be the nominee.

[CTyankee]

42. It's exactly what happened today on Morning Joe. Kerry was in a "line up" on the screen as

being in disagreement with the HHS policy. No nuance at all. He was right up there with Casey, Kaine and several others.

That's when my head exploded and I started saying "what the hell is wrong with Kerry?"

Nobody on the MJ set quoted Kerry's statement, if they had even bothered to find it, which I doubt cuz these lazy bastards we call a press corps are just useless. They sat there and allowed Kerry to be lumped in with the others and said not a word...

I hope by Tweety's show this evening, this will be brought to light. I hope he has on Joan Walsh or another woman who knows what's really going on...

[Peregrine Took]

16. Catholic women have got to speak up and stop allowing the men dominate the issue. n/t

[deaniac21]

21. Not

in our lifetimes.

[karynnj]

23. Kerry was asked the question - would you want him to refuse to answer

Instead, he gave a pretty "let's not make news" answer that was supportive of the administration's effort on this.

n a statement, Kerry said, "I think the Administration is working towards a final rule that reflects a reasonable compromise. I think there's a way to protect everybody's interest here. I think you can implement it effectively in a way that protects women's access, but at the same time protects people's religious beliefs, and that should be everyone’s goal.""

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/kerry-becomes-latest-dem-to-oppose-obama-on

To me, the problem is that TPM had their own agenda and used a title that absolutely is not justified by the ONLY Kerry quote they gave. There is NO WAY to take that statement as "opposing Obama". The statement is 100% supportive.

[WilliamPitt]

25. AAAAAAAAAAA!!!

...oh, sorry.

Thought it was 2004 again.

[hfojvt]

32. Does somebody who disagrees with you

have to have something wrong with him/her?

Should somebody decide what they believe based on who will or will not vote for him or work for him?

I don't decide what I believe just becaus I live in a conservative state. I use my own experience, values and reason (such as they are).

This, I think, is something that is wrong with our politics today. Everybody wants to divide the world into two kinds of people. The people who agree with me, and the people who have something wrong with them - either an intellectual, moral or character defect.

[CTyankee]

43. I know thru the experience of a family member who worked with Kerry's political consultants in

Boston, John Martilla's firm (who has also worked with Biden, as well) , and Kerry has heretofore been strongly pro-family planning and pro-choice. And he got into trouble with the Church during the 04 election. So this just floored me! He was the last person I thought would do such an about face.

Karynnj has done us all a service and I am grateful to her for straightening ME out. Plus, it relieves me. I was beginning to think all my heroes were throwing women under the proverbial bus. I had a miserable morning because of it...

[craigmatic]

38. The Catholic church has alot of reach and influence. They can make or break a Catholic politician.

In 2004 a few conservative leaders within the church came out against Kerry and it hurt him in places like Ohio. Let's not forget that Kerry lives in MA and there are plenty of Catholics there too and they'd be liberal on everything else except this one issue. Sounds like he's covering hos own butt to me.

[karynnj]

52. Kerry is 100% on votes on woman's issues including abortion

This is an unusual score for someone in office that long and a Presidential candidate. Here it is a source completely ignoring the quote and labeling Kerry in the title. Then it is various sloppy journalists.

[CTyankee]

60. Sloppy is the least of it! I would say incompetent and even lying.

What MJ did with that chart was unconscionable. It is good that this finally gets out. But it shows what happens when a show like MJ gets hold of it before 6 am Eastern and folks like me are just getting up and wondering what the hell has happened!

Glad you set us all straight! Bless you...I feel a lot better and much relieved...

[karynnj]

61. You're welcome

I KNEW that I had to respond with the actual quote when I saw that you were the op. I've seen your posts for years and know that you have absolutely no likelihood of intentionally misstating anything - and certainly not on Kerry. I knew there was a big problem.

Even as is, there are people in the Kerry group not happy with what he did really say. Maybe because I am 61, grew up Catholic and have hand many religion/politics conversation with my further to the left daughter, who is doing a masters in World religions.

[Marrah_G]

39. I come from a very Catholic family in MA

My father even spent a few years in the Seminary.

Not one of them is anti-birth control. In fact they are very much FOR birth control.

In fact I cannot think of one person that I know here that is anti-bc.

I think that any politician who believes they need to compromise with the extremists on this is very, very out of touch.

[karynnj]

51. Did you actually read Kerry's statement? - he NEVER belonged on that list

here is the only statement I can find that he made.

In a statement, Kerry said, "I think the Administration is working towards a final rule that reflects a reasonable compromise. I think there's a way to protect everybody's interest here. I think you can implement it effectively in a way that protects women's access, but at the same time protects people's religious beliefs, and that should be everyone’s goal.""

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/kerry-becomes-latest-dem-to-oppose-obama-on

As it turns out, though I did not believe it possible yesterday, everything listed by Kerry was included. The administartion did an excellent job. It does not sound like Kerry knew the plan, but he likely knew more than he was allowed to say. Responding that the administration was working on a compromise - and stating what their goals were and should be is likely the best answer to give.

This plan is a major improvement - and now insures ALL women, even those working directly for the church.

What this tells me is that there are a lot of journalists on the left that are willing to jump to conclusions and trash Kerry for not being with in - in spite of the fact that he very usually is. On choice, it is impossible to find anyone stronger. He has a 100% rating - and even as he prepared to run for President, he did not take the easy way out and vote against the highly demonized partial birth abortion. As he explained in the second day, he could not vote for it unless the health of the woman was a sufficient reason to allow it. That was also a vote that could have hurt him in 2004. He certainly did not deserve having his comment taken completely out of context in the title of the TPM piece - which led to all the other references - including Morning Joe.

[politicasista]

54. He will never be appreciated by his own state

let alone some (not all) of Obama's staunchest supporters. Hence the Yachtgate and 1% comment.

Some should try living in a yucky red state of TN where your state is controlled by the GOP (with a GOP governor), where anti-Obama sentiment runs wild, and the Dems here either don't care and act like DINOs most of the time.

Of course people in MA can always have people like Alexander and Corker, but keep Brownie.


People may come after me for saying that, but it needs to be said.

[karynnj]

56. He got twothirds of the vote in 2008 - beating Obama's %, so it was not that Obama carried him

In 2002, no Republican bothered to run against him after he defeated the most popular Governor for decades.

[politicasista]

57. Yet he still gets dumped on by MA Dems/Liberals

Obama was not around then (publically), but that doesn't change the fact that he will still never be appreciated there or anywhere (Hence the comments in this thread). Maybe someday he will but, there is more love for candidate Liz Warren than there is their own Senior Senator. Go Figure.

Had he come from a more humble beginning as opposed to priviledged, chances are that you would not see all the garbage about his money, taxes, yacht and being in the 1%. And more would have saw him as being real. JAO

Or maybe they will be happy to have two Brownies representing them.


Back to the topic, had promised I would shut up about this because it is a personal, if not sensitive subject.

Hopefully his surrogates can set the record straight on this because it makes it seem like he doesn't have the President's back (instead pandering to the hatemongers who will never vote Dem) on this, and his throwing his main base (women, progressives) under the bus.

Sorry that Congress had to be pressured to step in the mud on a wedge issue that is only a distraction from the economy and the Administration's accomplishments.


Know this will not sit well with both sides, but it's ok, I don't understand. Probably never will. Sometimes I don't know why I am here.

[Marrah_G]

69. Yeah dumped on by the massive numbers who voted for him

Perhaps before you leap next time you could ask me a question or ask me to clarify my post.

[politicasista]

71. Ok...sorry n/t

[Marrah_G]

67. OFFS

I've campaigned for Kerry. Brownie is an asshole who will be kicked in the ass by Ms Warren.

My statement had to do with MA Catholics and BC.

[politicasista]

73. Ok.

Apologies for taking this out of context (see below).


Defend your Senators proudly.


Peace.

[Marrah_G]

74. Sorry I snapped at you

Sometimes online meanings get all muddled.

[politicasista]

76. You're fine

Agree that online meanings get muddled. Emotions are running high right now and that is understandable.


Apology accepted.

[politicasista]

64. Want to trade Senators?

You can have two GOPers Alexander and Corker, a GOP (and super loaded Governor that's just like Mitt), a GOP controlled state legislature, some DINOs, and Anti-Obama sentiment in a heavy red state for Senator Kerry, but keep Porno Brownie.

Sounds fun, doesn't it?

Must be nice to live in a blue state, unfortunate you don't appreciate your Senator, but others do.

[Marrah_G]

68. We are on the same team.........

I've campaigned for Kerry. Brownie is an asshole who will be kicked in the ass by Ms Warren.

My statement had to do with MA Catholics and BC.

[politicasista]

72. Apologies

We are on the same team.

Comments were driven out of frustration with people continuing to dump on this decent person (like the MA poster above and the one about him "hitting the bottle."

Sorry for taking everything out of context, just sick of the bashing and disrespect at the Senator coming from some (not you or CT Yankee) Dems, Liberals and Obama supporters here and everywhere.


Again, apologies.

[politicasista]

44. Not going to say nothing on this anymore.

Even Obama supporters are attacking him in this thread.

Too messy here. Wish everyone the best. Peace.

[Hamlette]

45. I've been astonished all week, Mark Shields, EJ Dionne, Chris Matthews and Lawrence O'Donnell

have all been horrible about this issue all week. I thought I would lose my mind. Talking about the poor Catholic church having to go against its own moral authority. MORAL AUTHORITY? Are you kidding me? They lost that 30 years ago when they started allowing priests to rape babies and cover it up.

Vomit.

[CTyankee]

53. 30 years ago? How about all those burnings of heretics throughout the Church's long history?

And wasn't the Spanish Inquisition fun?

I take some comfort that I wasn't the only feeling horrible about this.

Moral Authority! Now that's a good one. Somebody should remind those jerks of Giordano Bruno in 1600 in Rome. Poor Bruno. He stuck to his guns that the sun was a star and the earth and other planets revolved around it. He got publicly burned alive for transgressing the Moral Authority of the holy, mother Church! Not to mention several rather prominent burnings of nuns who had been mystics, such as Marguerite of Porete, burned at the stake in 1310 for her heresy.

[Obama3_16]

46. where do I start?

[cherokeeprogressive]

65. Maybe he was speaking in a strictly Constitutional sense...

[karynnj]

70. His comment was simply that the administrtaion was "I think" working on a solution

- exactly what happened. It WAS clear that he was in favor of finding a solution that gave women birth control, but considered the complaints. It was public knowledge that the WH was working to do just that. I would guess that he might have had more information than was public - the WH may have talked possible responses with people like him and Durbin.

His answer was very vague - on everything other than having women get the contraceptives.

The fact is he has a 100% pro-choice record - stronger than most DU favorites including Dennis Kucinich - and even running for President he did not back down.

[aaaaaa5a]

75. Religion leads to backward thinking anytime it raises its ugly head. nt