You tell me OWS is dead....

[catnhatnh]

This is my son, Ben


He is OWS...


St. Patricks Day 2012 this happened


He was arrested for filming the very first arrest the police made that day. His camera was stolen by the police. He was held until the following Monday for refusing an iris scan. He lost his job. It took just under a year and 5 court appearances to have charges dismissed. He is probably going to sue the city of New York.

Ben has a wife and 2 kids and a new job. Right now the last thing he needs is another arrest. That just means staying active but out of the spotlight. So Ben spends time with his kids being quietly active. Here are the kids in the garage at home with the project they just finished.


That's one of two old steam tables he bought from work and repaired in his garage. This one is being delivered this weekend to a relief kitchen run by a friend in Far Rockaway.


You tell me OWS is dead-I tell you that they are pausing and they are planning. They haven't quit and they will not quit. I cannot tell you what OWS will look like this summer, much less in 5 years, but I can tell you that I see commitment and caring and and continuing engagement with the government.They see evil and they oppose it and they see need and they try to alleviate it. Instead of telling me they are dead tell me what you are doing that matters more.

[rhett o rick]

1. The conservative Dems among us want badly for the demise of OWS.

They worship the status quo. They are really Republicans embarrassed for their party.

[Dragonfli]

18. People wonder what happened to the "moderate" pre Clinton Republicans, like they just vanished

These days the trickle down Republicans find their home among the "new" Democrats AKA DLC AKA 3rd Way. Strange how the DLC grew just as those Republicans began to disappear, replaced by what is now a hodge podge of neo-Birchers and Ayn Rand Libertarians (an extreme fascist group far to the right of even Republicans)

So fascists were rebranded as Republicans, Republicans were rebranded as the Democratic "party leadership" taking up more than half the party and Democrats are marginalized and continue being pushed out of the party or already forced to wander the third party wilderness without a political voice

The end result is Democrats that aren't Heritage Foundation loving third way "financially conservative right" supposedly "socially left" centrists are losing all representation. The fucked up bit is issue polls show a majority of people not only are not Reagan emulation conservatives or fascists but very progressive minded about things like social programs and an end to corporate and Banker Rule, but no matter who they vote for they get conservative or fascist policies.

We need a party again, a third party will not be allowed to participate in a meaningful way in our binary system and the big money corporate and banking financiers of both parties will not allow us to regain control of our own Democratic party.

The only hope we have left is occupy, and they are being beaten down by thugs like rabid dogs for doing nothing more than what we are supposed to do in this country when power ignores the wishes of the majority, we ARE supposed to demonstrate and ARE NOT supposed to be beaten and imprisoned for exercising our rights.

It does not bode well, it will be a fight against an enemy of actually less than 1% of the population that nonetheless commands all the weapons and thugs, money, and most forms of media. They also appear to have new improved powers of oppression to physically beat us down, before it's over we will be shedding nearly all of the blood and even our numbers far from guaranteed any sure victory over the .1% of Oligarch rulers.

[rhett o rick]

43. I dont agree occupy is our only hope. They are certainly a major part.

And they have been very effective. They exposed the enemy's plan to use ultimate force from the beginning even against the most peaceful demonstrators. They exposed our, supposedly democratic government as immediately siding with the oppression, even during a "Democratic" administration. The Civil Rights movement at least had the majority of the country behind them including the federal government. What Occupy also did was show that the movement wasnt ready. The movement has only a small portion of the 99% ready to fight. The Freedom Movement is waiting, but there are not enough on board.

The Occupy events resulted in some negitives too. Occupy, along with other movements around the world, revealed to the Overlords how important the internet is to the fight for freedom. I would guess that getting control of the internet is their top priority.
Occupy also gave the Overlords an excuse to upgrade anti-demonstrating and anti-protesting laws. Also, to equip more police with equipment to "control" demonstrations.

Before we can take control of our democracy from the Overlords we must stop our infighting between liberals and conservative citizens. And before that we must stop our infighting between liberals and centrists. This infighting fits in the Overlords plan.

Someone out there must be working on a strategy.

[bvar22]

62. Get off my lawn ya bunch of dirty Hippies!

[rhett o rick]

74. The movement seems to be a mishmash of various challenges to various

heads of the beast. I would hope that some organization has stepped back and tried to develop an overall strategy to return our democracy.

To me the most important things to be working on are in order of importance:

Maintaining a free internet. This is the best tool today for promulgating the truth.

Ensuring a free and fair election system. Without this, all other issues can be quickly lost.

Getting money out of the political process.

[DeSwiss]

100. No new wine in old skins. n/t

[SleeplessinSoCal]

95. I'm a somewhat conservative Dem who thinks OWS is essential to saving our country from crooks.

We have to get beyond the labels and to the base of the problem and not the party.

[Dragonfli]

98. if that means you are pro-bank, gleefully trying to cut my earned benefits and love outsourcing

Then you may support OWS, but you are helping to destroy an entire blue collar class. Since I am not financially comfortable and living in a suburb, but born and raised blue collar, I can't support you reducing most of us to min wage service employees. We work and once were able to live, now we are the working poor growing poorer each and every year due to right wing economic policies being pushed in places like this http://www.thirdway.org/

[SleeplessinSoCal]

133. I seem to have stepped through the Looking Glass again.

This place is a like being on shrooms half the time.

[FBaggins]

153. Have you considered the implications of that?

Never mind 99% vs 1% - You've effectively claimed that 75-80 percent of the country are either republicans or to the right of republicans.

[Dragonfli]

155. the politicians in the purchased bubble, not the people, I mentioned they are not represented

The end result is Democrats that aren't Heritage Foundation loving third way "financially conservative right" supposedly "socially left" centrists are losing all representation. The fucked up bit is issue polls show a majority of people not only are not Reagan emulating conservatives or fascists but very progressive minded about things like social programs and an end to corporate and Banker Rule, but no matter who they vote for they get conservative or fascist policies.

I rarely bother to address responses to posts that obviously were not read by the person responding. The problem is simple enough, The monied interests buy up think tanks like Heritage Foundation and third way and effectively use both sides in a binary system to market and create legislation that ultimately only the monied interests (the 1%) want.

[Scuba]

27. +1,000

[mick063]

88. I agree with this

I never spent a night in a tent or marched down the street.

Perhaps those that did so would look at me with disdain.

I would like those folks to know that you have truly inspired me. I choose not to actively protest in the street, but I want those folks to know that they have awakened me.

I believe your message and I spread it to all who might listen. I have taken extra time to educate myself and the more I learn, the more frightened I get.

You are heroes in the same category as soldiers. Every time I saw you, I privately cheered.

I am politically 100% on your side.

I am sure there are many, many more like me. Just because one didn't camp out, doesn't mean one is not ideologically aligned with OWS. I'll bet there is a significant ratio of supporters that stayed home from demonstrations but will participate in the democratic process in supporting like minded candidates.

I will help in any way that doesn't induce this old man to be pepper sprayed and beaten. That includes financial contributions, educating myself further, and debating the issues with those that will listen.

If there was an OWS party, I would vote it straight ticket.

[brooklynite]

180. 1) I'm not conservative; 2) I've never WANTED the demise of OWS

I merely observe it's ineffectiveness AS AN AGENT OF POLICY CHANGE.

As far as changing the laws on Bank policy, campaign finance, or corporate influence in the political system, it has failed because it chose to offer no SPECIFIC changes to existing law, nor did it make any effort to elect politicians who would try to do so.

As far as advocating for different social structures, it has failed, as far as I can see, in expanding support for its approach of leaderless decision-making and communal social organizations beyond its own members. (insert your 'blame the main stream media" -- despite the availability of social and alternative media forums -- here)

My point, again. I don't object to OWS as an entity; but if it's not going to play a serious role in addressing the nation's issues through the political process, I'm going to work with candidates and political groups that will.

[rhett o rick]

181. The current political process isnt working. And the longer we pretend it is

the deeper in the shit we will get. OWS didnt change the system, but it wasnt intended to. It did frame the conflict as between the 99% and the 1%. That's out there in broad daylight where is was merely whispered about before. OWS fired a violence free shot across the bow of the Ruling Elite who now know that there is a smoldering force beneath the surface. OWS forced the Ruling Elite to show how brutal they will get with peaceful protests. I believe it woke up some of the apathetic among us.

I dont advocate abandoning the current process. I support moveon.org and the other progressive, non-party organizations. I also think we should support the Congressional Progressive Caucus. But I do not support the DNC, DSCC, DCCC, etc. The Democratic Party machine is under the control of the 1% Elite.

[madrchsod]

2. somebody said the left was dead..

but your son and hundreds of thousands like him beg to differ.

[catnhatnh]

3. A lot of the most active ones were arrested and then deliberately harassed,

by both the police and the courts on trumped up charges. Without fantastic help from the National Lawyers Guild many of these good people would have had to plead their charges down and gained a police record. Right now some of the final cases from 2011 are STILL being heard. Maybe a few could afford to litigate multiple arrests but mostly after the first bust you lay low till you can clear those charges. The state knows this and uses it to suppress the dissent.

[tavalon]

85. I just checked my pulse

My heart is still beating so this far left, lefty, is alive and fighting.

[GReedDiamond]

4. Many Thanks to Ben, and Best Wishes to ALL of You!...knr/nt

[catnhatnh]

5. Thanks-I'm proud as Hell of him. N/T

[Cane4Dems]

6. Much respect for your son, Ben!

I wish him good luck for the future and many thanks for the work that he is doing!

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. Your son needs to be aware of the ruling Glik v. Boston. Man arrested for filming police,

wins a $170K payout and it is also determined to be legal. There has been at least one more positive ruling in this regard since then. My best to you and to him. I hope he makes the city pay for their domestic terrorism; he appears to be the type who would use the money to do something positive.

[catnhatnh]

12. Thanks...

He's got top representation by the NLG. They are still discussing strategy. I was proud of his in-your-face stand in NYC, but I love the low key activism he uses to build a community.

[dotymed]

35. It is disgusting, but true...

The new trend is to make taping of police officers "doing their job" illegal. I was reading about this yesterday (probably on DU).
There are antiquated laws still on the books in many states that make audio recording of an individual without his/her consent a Class 1 Felony.
Some guy (I don't remember where) is being charged with 5, class1 felonies (possibly 75 years in prison)
for recording (on his phone) police brutality. The audio portion is what "broke the law."
Instead of the uniformed thugs being prosecuted, they have turned it around on him, big time.
It seems that no matter how non-violent and honest we are about our plight, "they" come up with a way to intimidate and incarcerate us.
Honestly tell me that Obama could not have the DOJ in that state put an end to this.
I am sure there will be people protecting the limited powers of a proven corporate owned democratic president.
It seems to me that with the increasing powers of the "unitary executive", it would not be a stretch to stop this.
Really, if you can execute anyone, anywhere on your whim, you can intervene in a bullshit prosecution.
For instance, states that refuse to abide by federal laws find their matching federal funding for projects, withheld.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

111. There is a very good post which provides details and is worth a look:

7 Rules for Recording Police
http://gizmodo.com/5900680/7-rules-for-recording-police

In Illinois, the Federal Appellate Court for the Seventh Circuit overturned an Illinois law making it a felony to film the police. When a petition was filed with the U.S. Supreme Court, that court declined to hear the case with the result that the Seventh Circuit's ruling is the law in Illinois and provides a good precedent for other courts.

Nonetheless, the cops in Illinois can essentially do whatever they want, include making arrests on other charges and delivering unnecessary and excessive violence. One Naperville, Illinois woman found this out when she attempted to film two police officers when they cut a lock to her gate as a way to enter her property without her permission. They charged her with "attempted eavesdropping and resisting a peace officer."

Naturally, be careful when dealing with cops. They don't have to follow the law, they don't have to follow any law.

[sabrina 1]

8. You must be so proud of him. And only the Right and Wall St. think OWS is dead. They

have been busier since they were brutally driven from the public square than they ever were. Eg, this week, they are organizing protests across the country and the globe, against Monsanto. Finally exposing the crimes of that criminal organization.

And that's just over the past few days. Their newspaper is up and running, they are saving people from foreclosure, challenging the banks, winning every case in court as they were so well organized and prepared for the false arrests. Some of them are suing for the illegal treatment they as citizens received at the hands of their government.

They are challenging the Chicago political machine run by Rahm Emmanuel and his attempts to privatize the public schools,

They brilliantly have shown the way to buy back Student Debt in one of their most successful protests over the past year.

The fact that we have chosen not to post here on DU about OWS the way we used to apparently has given the false, (and for some inconceivable reason) hopeful impression that they went away. They did not and like any longterm social justice movement in its infancy, as OWS still is, they will continue to work towards the major goals they have had since the beginning.

In the short period of their existence they have accomplished more in educating the public about Wall St corruption than our entire media put together. They have saved more homes from illegal, unnecessary foreclosure, than Congress.

Your son is a hero and it is great to know he is has not been deterred, just being a bit less public, for now.

[catnhatnh]

10. Thanks so much...

...I think he'll be on the Sandy relief for a while. First people mocked them for their original tactics and then were outraged that some supported Ron Paul and now while the movement morphs to become more involved they only see no tents on Wall St and figure the movement gave up. The sad thing is these OWS guys are the real actual committed activists we would like to think we were in the 60's and 70's. Yours is one of the best pieces I've seen to remind people just how much they are trying to accomplish. Thanks again.

[sabrina 1]

13. You are very welcome. I would be here all night if I were to list the activities they have been

involved in over the past year. But those are a few. As someone said recently, 'you can't kill an idea'. I laugh when I see the comments stating that OWS is dead and/or was 'not effective'. THAT tells me who I am talking to and I always like to know who I am REALLY talking to.

As you say, this is the kind of committed movement we need so badly in this country and every Democrat I know fully supports them. Frankly I could not care less about political affiliation when it comes to any Social Justice Movement and in fact, we do not want a movement that cannot attract people of all kinds of backgrounds, political, religious, young, old etc. Any movement made up of one political party members is not a 'movement'. That is what made OWS so successful and so timely. People of all backgrounds are waking up and they needed a place to go. Now they have that .

But it's funny, the very same people who try to discredit the movement by pointing out that a few of Rand Paul's supporters joined the protests, are the very same people who will defend Republicans being appointed to powerful positions by a Democratic Administration. I just laugh at the obsession with Ron/Rand Paul, It is simply a ploy to try to emotionally manipulate democrats and it just doesn't work. This is about ISSSUES and no matter who is in power, until those issues begin to be resolved, there will be an OWS for the foreseeable future.

[catnhatnh]

15. It's like they don't remember that when they first fully embraced the views of the left...

or even just rejected the views of the right it was from listening to radical voices and almost never from the main stream. Ron Paul SOUNDS different and different is what they want. For some of us it was Marx or Lenin or maybe Abby Hoffman or Tom Hayden. Or many others but seldom from the center. It could have been music-Crosby stills and Nash singing "Ohio" or Creedence hitting "Fortunate Sun". Country Joe nailed the "Fixin to Die Rag" and hundreds more joined a movement. You would come to love the Kennedys or McGovern, Carter and others but it always starts with a theory that says things are wrong and must be changed. Would I rather they loved A Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, a Barney Franks or an Alan Grayson-sure! But action matter and dreams matter and I believe their's are better dreams. I think the movement lives and know it makes me happy.

[sabrina 1]

17. I think many people who have been a part of OWS for the past year or so did get to listen

to many Liberal speakers, including politicians. Not once did anyone object to eg, a Democrat joining a protest and speaking to the people there. Every time a prominent figure from the left spoke to group of OWS protesters, they were given the utmost respect and were saying things that resonated with everyone there. In the end this is our country and people tend not to be so fixated on political parties in Real Life anyhow. I have had so many conversations with people about ISSUES and still have no clue what their party affiliation is nor did it matter. People care most about the issues that affect their lives, not about party politics.

Here we are given the impression that the whole world operates the way a political forum operates. It doesn't. If it did, families would never speak to each other, neighbors would not help each other when needed etc. Thankfully OWS kept political party propaganda out of their discussions and focused on the issues. We need a lot more of that. Those running things WANT to divide us. What they fear most is that we will stop fighting amongst each other and spend that energy on THEM.

Thanks for your comment, I agree with everything you say.

[Tarheel_Dem]

22. Ron Paul? Do they actually embrace everything he stands for? If so, that speaks volumes.

And none of it good.

[bvar22]

64. Maybe if the Democratic Party offered something besides Republican Lite,

good people that are disgusted with the Status Quo wouldn't be chased into arms of politicians like Ron Paul.
Ya Think?

BTW, I agree with many of Ron Paul's issues.
*End the failed and expensive War on Drugs

*Close foreign bases, use our Military for Defense Only, slash Pentagon Spending

*Repeal the Patriot Act

You have to admit that these are attractive issues.
To a young person who is continually told that Social Security is broke and won't be there for them, doing away with it won't seem that crazy.

Ron Paul wouldn't have Bailed Out Wall Street.
The Democratic Party with comfortable majorities in BOTH Housed DID.


The Democratic Party was also the Establishment Party that used the Patriot Act, militarized Police Depts, and national Coordination to persecute peaceful, legal protesters.

The Democratic Party would do better trying to understand, listen to, and support the OWS movement.

[Tarheel_Dem]

101. Fuck Occupy, and all who sail in her!

[bvar22]

103. And you wonder WHY intelligent, young people are looking for "change".

I understand completely.

Here is another reason:
Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc

THAT doesn't happen by accident,
and it is stupid to try and blame it all on the Republicans or Joe Lieberman.

[Tarheel_Dem]

139. Don't tell me. Tell the Occupy Paulites, who think Corporations can do no wrong. Why you, a big...

old liberal, would want to attract that to the Democratic Party is kinda hypocritical & self defeating, doncha think? Careful, or some of us might get the impression that you're a big old fake internet liberal. You Better Believe It!

[rhett o rick]

184. Of the millions of OWS across the world, I doubt you can find any

that support corporations. It's the conservatives that support corporations and hate Occupy. I will bet you can find as many Occupy supporters that like Ron Paul as dont like Ron Paul and an equal number that dont give a shit one way or another.

One thing that flabbergasts Occupy haters is that OWS doesnt stand for anything specific other than bringing Wall Street under control. The conservatives tried over and over to get someone to speak for OWS and say something specific that they could pick on it. But Occupy is made up of many different types of humans unlike the conservatives that love the status quo and march in lock step with their bully leaders. Fascism is just made for them.

It's just my opinion but resorting to name calling is really childish.

[sabrina 1]

135. Yes, that is what the Wall St. Criminals say. But unfortunately for them

more people across the globe are joining OWS every day as Wall St's criminal activities, thanks mainly to OWS, are exposed to more and more people.

[Tarheel_Dem]

141. And here's sabrina again, making wild declarations about the "growth" of Occupy. It never died in..

Europe, because they knew what they were pissed off about. Here in the US, a bunch of clowns, with dirty blond dreds, beating on bongos, smoking dope, and trying to get laid in the park wasn't a sustainable platform. Hence, the reason you guys keep trying to give the impression that "OWS ain't dead". It's kinda like that tree in the forest metaphor.

[sabrina 1]

149. I love the revelations just the mention of OWS brings out.

OWS, one of the most important Social Justice movements since the Civil Rights movement, and probably the first United Global Movement of its kind, still only in its infancy but so much being accomplished already.

You can tell how important a movement more by who so vehemently opposes it, than by who supports it.

Put it this way, I would be very worried if YOU supported OWS. I cannot tell you how happy your opposition makes me!

[Tarheel_Dem]

150. And your participation speaks to it's obvious organizational impotence.

OWS is a niche culture, which naturally would attract folk like you, and I'll leave it at that. When OWS was winding down, the American people rated it on par with the Tea Party, who had also gotten on most folk's last nerve.

Is there any credible source for this "growth" you keep talking about? And let me be clear, I'm not talking about facebook, an OWS blog/newsletter. I mean, a reputable source that can back up your broad assertions about "growth", here in the US?

You know, I've never forgotten another unsubstantiated claim you made about Dennis Kucinich being hugely popular in Europe, I continued to ask you for anything in the way of proof, and you began your typical evasion tactics, and of course, never provided such proof. You should stop doing that, it only makes you look more foolish.

[Pelican]

151. Sadly the Tea Party accomplished something before fizzling out...

At least OWS could have had one solid moment before fading to oblivion...

[Kingofalldems]

158. What did they accomplish?

Why would you call anything they do an accomplishment for that matter? They are out to destroy principles of the Democratic party and anyone who calls that an accomplishment would be a republican.

[Pelican]

164. Those words don't mean what you think they mean...

Crack a dictionary and I'll check on you in a while.

[Tarheel_Dem]

160. OWS forgot that optics are important. Ron Paul signs, and protestors who look stoned....

aren't very compelling advertising. I remember many Democrats being very sympathetic to OWS initially, but a great many saw the optics as damaging, and began to distance themselves. I can't believe that anyone would want to attract Ron Paul voters to the Democratic Party. One can only assume that their party platform is "Leave the corporations alone, and pass me a doobie and a condom."

Liberals should be embarrassed by their association with these people.

[bvar22]

162. What did OWS accomplish?

Major changes.

Check out the language Presidemt Obama used in his State of the Union Address of 2010.
It was ALL about Austerity for the Working Class,
and "Time to Eat our (meaning YOUR) Peas".

The State of the Union Address of 2011 was like it was given by a different man.
In 2011, The SOTU was ALL about "fairness" ,
and the lower 99% who were missing out on the "Recovery".

Gee,
what happened between those two SOTU Addresses that could "change" the language and focus of the President of the United States?

Of course, what Obama SAYS in public,
and what he DOES behind our backs
are two different things,
but HE obviously noticed,
and "changed" his Sales Pitch.

OWS changed YOUR life too!
It is living Rent Free inside your head,
and THAT gives me satisfaction!

[Pelican]

165. Really? That's what you are bringing out as a major accomplishment?

Use of the word "peas" is the SOTU speech? Which was brought about by OWS somehow? Really?

As for living rent free, having a conversation about something for the 30 seconds it takes to type this post and then moving on doesn't qualify.

[bvar22]

174. Anyone reading this thread can tell you have a deep emotional attachment to OWS

..and the changes this movement has already caused in YOUR life.
Why is it so imperative for you attack and attempt to discount a movement that has been in existence for such a short time?

Would you condemn the LABOR Movement,
or the Women's Movement,
or the Civil Rights Movement
because they had few legislative gains in their first year?

Compared to those movements,
and most other movements,
OWS is racing ahead.
The dialog and language of the country/WORLD has already changed,
and THAT is a HUGE accomplishment.


Watching YOU spin, and dance, gunning your engine,
spinning your tires like an adolescent with daddy's car,
throwing smoke and dust in the air,
investing time and energy defending Wall Street and the 1%.....
all for something YOU insist is "ineffective"?
If it was "ineffective" you wouldn't be here!


It is clear to anyone reading this thread
that OWS has affected you deeply,
and in a disturbing way.

[Pelican]

175. Everyone associated with those legitimate movements...

... should be offended that you are clinging to their coat tails.

The closest thing to a point that I'll grant you is that I, as an individual personality trait, am mildly bothered when people claim that they did something that they didn't and I may or may not take a few seconds out of my day to correct the record, as is the case here.

If you want to count 42 seconds worth of internet musings as

"Watching YOU spin, and dance, gunning your engine,
spinning your tires like an adolescent with daddy's car,
throwing smoke and dust in the air,"

Then feel free and have a lovely day...

[bvar22]

178. Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way...

....and sit in your rocker,
on the porch,
shouting at the kids,
and cry for the Good Ole Days,
before OWS,
because like it or not,
the World Wide Occupy Movement is now a part of our history and our National Fabric,
and it is here to stay.

Like ALL movements for Justice,
Occupy stands on the shoulders of those who fought for justice in past generations.
My father and his father shed BLOOD for the LABOR movement,
and they would be PROUD of catnhatnh's son, Ben,
for standing UP for what is right.

You can try to discount and deny these new Carrier's -of-the-Torch,
but I won't.
There IS injustice in today's Two Americas, and in our entrenched Political System,
and [font size=3]I'm ecstatic that the youth of today:
See It,
Recognize it,
Aren't afraid to point it out,
and join together to OPPOSE it![/font]

If you don't fight injustice,
you are part of the injustice.




[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[rhett o rick]

183. The conservatives fear OWS. They generally are bullies that rely on power and violence to get their

way. Non-violence strikes fear in their hearts. Mahatma Gandhi and MLK Jr. both knew this.

I like the way the conservatives pick out one issue and run it into the ground. They see a Ron Paul sign and automatically they try to claim that the millions of OWS around the world all support everything Ron Paul says. If they were to pay attention they would find signs that support a lot of conflicting ideas.

The Ruling Elite want us to keep fighting among ourselves. The conservatives here seem to be helping them out.

[bvar22]

185. The Fear, Denial, and Bitterness is palpable.

Last edited Wed May 29, 2013, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Can you imagine bringing that level of Hostility and Venom into a thread
posted by a MOTHER celebrating her SON's commitment to making the World a Better Place for Everyone?

[sabrina 1]

168. The Tea Party 'accomplished something'? Really? Could you enlighten us as to what that was?

Are you aware that the TP was a phony 'movement', created by the far Right and paid for by them. Do you even know the origin of that fake movement?

Very strange for anyone here to even try to compare a Right Wing invention with a real grass roots movement.

If you'd like some facts about how the TP was invented, let us know so you don't try to make such an outrageous comparison again, especially on a board where people are informed about these issues.

[Pelican]

170. Look...

If you want to think that 5 Senators and 40 Representatives as a result of 2010 doesn't mean anything then don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#U.S._elections

What they really are (or were), what you think they are (or were) doesn't really matter. They implemented laws, got their officials elected and influenced public policy on a national level. That doesn't change just because you don't like their policy.

Edit: I didn't bring up the tea party. The post I replied to did.

Lastly, the reason that this matters is because it shows what a waste OWS was. National media coverage, members across the country, the ability to engage the populace. All wasted because no one could come up with a coherent, logical message and move towards a goal.

What a waste of potential...

[sabrina 1]

171. The TP was a phony, fake, deceptive political organization created by the Far Right to elect

politicians who are even more far to the right than the already far right Republican Party. THAT was the REASON for their existence. They were funded for that purpose, they posed as a 'grass roots' movement which they were NOT.

Just how does such a phony, political group in any way compare to a real Grass Roots movement whose goals were to ENLIGHTEN people to the facts about MONEY IN POLITICS. OWS never even pretended to be a political organization.

They accomplished their goals, in fact they went way beyond what they set out to do and never intended to be around for more than two weeks at most and in only one city, NY. The fact that they became such a force, they they spread so rapidly across the country, that they changed the dialogue so fast, that they are now a Global Movement more active today than they were at the beginning, that they were joined by so many other workers' organizations, demonstrates the NEED there is for such a movement.

There is no way to compare the fake 'TP' to a Social Justice Movement like OWS whose whole message was about money in politics which makes your demand that they do what they most opposed, try to become what IS the problem, just well, ridiculous. To get elected in this country one must now take outrageous amounts of money from Big Corps, from Wall St. Why on earth would an organization that is trying to CHANGE that work FOR what they most oppose??

Comparing the TP to OWS is like comparing the Young Republicans to the Civil Rights Movement.

The TP did not 'accomplish' anything. They were nothing more than a well funded political operation working as they always do, to get their party elected. That is the job of political organizations. It is NOT the job of a Social Justice movement. A SJ Movement works to change how things are where change is needed and electing more of the same old politicians all of whom are funded by and beholden to Big Business is NOT going to accomplish anything.

OWS will be around for a long time because there is a NEED for such a movement now. They will and have been evolving over time. It will take years before those changes are accomplished. It took years for the Civil Rights Movement to make the changes that were needed and they still have work to do.

What exactly did you think the goals of OWS were? Did you really think THEY expected to accomplish their goals in a matter of weeks, months? It took DECADES to get to the point where such a movement became necessary, it may take even more than that to turn things around.

OWS is only the beginning of what will be a very, very long process. But at least that process has now BEGUN. There was NOTHING before them.

The TP is nothing more than just another political organization doing short term damage to the country by helping get more of the same morons elected. THAT is NOT an 'accomplishment'. It is a disaster. If OWS wanted to contribute to the downslide of this country they could have easily done what the TP and done it better. But THAT WAS NEVER THE GOAL.

It is astounding how little some people here ever understood what this movement was about. And it's not as if their very name didn't send the message. They were very clear, for those paying attention, about their goals and so far, have accomplished all of those goals they set out to accomplish. NOW since they were so much more successful than they ever anticipated, they have gone further, evolved, and are in a second phase of the movement.

[Pelican]

173. Got it..

"Dialogue changed" and something something something to come...

I'm sure we will all wait with baited breath.

As for this bit...

"And it's not as if their very name didn't send the message. They were very clear, for those paying attention, about their goals and so far, have accomplished all of those goals they set out to accomplish. "

That is the stereotype of the snobby artist who looks down on the masses who don't "get" his deep meaning. Aren't you cool. Too hip for the room...

Every goal accomplished eh? That is a very bold statement. Sure you want to stick with it?

[sabrina 1]

177. No you didn't 'get it'. The snobbery of those who ignore the massive corruption

of Wall St that caused millions of Americans to lose their homes and jobs, creating tent cities in a country that is among the wealthiest in the world, is simply stunning. I get that you are probably okay, not affected by the corruption not living on the street because you were wrongfully foreclosed on among other things. And I am truly glad for that. That is the least people who have worked all the lives should expect.

The snobbery apparent in the anti-OWS Social Justice movement is nothing new. Social Justice movements have always represented the poor, minorities and all of society's most vulnerable, and the 'comfortable' among us do not like to be reminded of the 'little people'.

Nothing has changed in that regard, throughout history. So it's no surprise at all to see who opposes this movement, in fact that alone has been proof positive of how successful OWS has been.

As the old saying goes, you can tell more about success by the enemies of that success than by its supporters.

I have not met one anti-OWS's Global Social Justice movement individual or organization that has surprised me in the least. In fact it is almost satisfying that the predictions and preparations for the anti-contingency turned out to be so correct.

Speaking of snobbery:


Wall St. Cocktail Partiers Mock OWS Wall St Corruption Protesters

Way to go, snobbery at its finest towards the nurses, the firemen, teachers et al who make up the OWS movement and are only asking for some kind of economic equality, but for the anti-OWS snobs, that is apparently something to laugh at.

[rhett o rick]

186. To say that OWS was a waste is mean spirited.

It's clear that you and I are on different sides. I side with OWS. Looks like you side with Wall Street.

[Pelican]

187. That must be it...

If you're not with us you're against us and if you don't like it here why don't you get out?

Stuff like that?

Black and white... either or... Those are for the simple...

[rhett o rick]

188. If you disagree present your argument. Hating OWS is mean spirited and totally right-wing.

Tell me how it isnt. Tell me how you love freedom but hate OWS and whistle-blowers and anyone else that speaks truth to authority. Tell me you dont worship the status quo. How you dont like protestors because they might upset your masters.

In a war you have to choose sides. Ridicule all you want but you do. OWS represents the 99% and their haters are 1% want-a-bee's.

[Pelican]

191. With eloquence like that...

... I can't imagine how they weren't taken seriously.

Shocking really...

It's your ability to convince others to join you and not just sing to the choir that impresses me the most.

[rhett o rick]

192. You dont have a clue as to what OWS was about if you think they were trying to get others to join.

You think they should have had a leader, a motto, a song, a list of solutions. Then you could be specific with your criticism against their leader, their motto, their song, and solutions.

The OWS haters are scared that OWS will disrupt their comfortable status quo. They think they are working for change by writing an email once a month and sending $5 to the DNC.

Your attempt at snark is not called for.

[Pelican]

195. Oh..

Congratulations then.. First social/political movement in history that had no interest in convincing others to agree with their point of view.

How... unique of you.

I'm not worried about OWS disrupting anything except possibly my commute to work.

[rhett o rick]

196. "I'm not worried about OWS disrupting anything except possibly my commute to work."

Yes, that says it all.

[Pelican]

197. Anything of substance to add or address?

Or are you just going to bow out like that.

It is just a statement of fact. The only time I really give them thought is when a thread like this comes up or I saw the local campers.

[Kingofalldems]

198. I see now you won't need to answer my question

"Are you a republican?' ---been answered in this thread. I will respond to you accordingly.

[idwiyo]

202. Occupy Wall Street activists buy $15m of Americans' personal debt

Is this "solid" enough for you?

Occupy Wall Street activists buy $15m of Americans' personal debt

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/12/occupy-wall-street-activists-15m-personal-debt

A group of Occupy Wall Street activists has bought almost $15m of Americans' personal debt over the last year as part of the Rolling Jubilee project to help people pay off their outstanding credit.

Rolling Jubilee, set up by Occupy's Strike Debt group following the street protests that swept the world in 2011, launched on 15 November 2012. The group purchases personal debt cheaply from banks before "abolishing" it, freeing individuals from their bills.

By purchasing the debt at knockdown prices the group has managed to free $14,734,569.87 of personal debt, mainly medical debt, spending only $400,000.
...
The group has focussed on buying medical debt, and has acquired the $14.7m in three separate purchases, most recently purchasing the value of $13.5m on medical debt owed by 2,693 people across 45 states and Puerto Rico, Rolling Jubilee said in a press release.

[sabrina 1]

154. Nothing personal, but I don't recall you much at all. It is a bit spooky to learn that someone

has so little to do they seem to remember, or mis-remember more likely, trivia about other people from what must be years ago. One thing is for certain, when people cannot discuss an issue effectively they attack people. A very ineffective internet tactic though still a fall back for those who do not kknow what they are talking about for the most part. I suppose I should be flattered or something because maybe it means OWS has had such an impact on the world that those of us who were aware of its importance and openly supported it from the beginning, attracted a lot of attention.

Anyhow, back to the topic which is not about me btw, OWS is a Global, Social Justice movement which even while still in its infancy has aroused so much anger from all the 'right' people, not to mention Wall St criminals and their puppets in governments around the world, that it is clear this is what was needed for a long time, and the reaction is proof in itself of just how important this movement is.

[Tarheel_Dem]

156. Oh, so now you don't remember?

Evade Away!!!!!!

[rhett o rick]

182. And that says it all right there. When argument fails lash out with right-wing expletives.

Why is it that conservatives fear and hate OWS so? Is it the fear that the movement will shake up their comfy status quo?

"The hell with those living in poverty, I got mine. And whatever you do, dont make our masters mad."

[truedelphi]

105. I have even come very close to beleiving that we should no longer

Have these hundreds of various agencies that are never there to protect us, (although that was the justification for their creation) but totally there to "certify as safe and approved" the various Corporate creations that might possibly kill me.

FDA? It has become all Monsanto, all the time.

CDC? It allows the vaccine manufacturers to manufacture a product in non-hygienic, and very contaminated laboratory settings, but since it exists, people think "Well my governmental agencies are really looking out for me."

And please don't get me started on FEMA or many of the other organizations, like the DEA.

In theory, I once believed in many of these orgs, but they' re now so controlled by the One Percent that they are mostly a joke and an unnecessary expense.

[sabrina 1]

167. I think you are right about those organizations. All they seem to be at this point is an opportunity

for major Corporations to give their destructive policies some kind of legitimacy. They certainly don't seem to do much to stand up for the people.

[arely staircase]

161. ron paul would end the war on drugs

and medicare
and social security
and ....

[socialist_n_TN]

57. Yeah as rarely as it happens, I agree with the other poster here.......

Ron and Rand Paul are fakes. Their way would make thing MUCH, MUCH worse for average Americans like your son. The USA would be unrecognizable under a libertarian government. Now a socialist one...

[ctsnowman]

82. Exactly.

[truedelphi]

107. Then sonething needs to be done to make the Democratic Party

Leadership return the party to its ideals, and abandon the all war, all the time, money only for military and war, and all the rest of the Bull Crap that has been our breakfast lunch and dinner since around 1995.

on edit: for one thing, young people really do hold to their ideals, and the slogan "Well the Republicans would be worse" really is not very inspiring -- not even for someone my age.

[socialist_n_TN]

137. The only thing that's been proven to turn the bourgeois Democratic Party left....

is a strong socialist/communist movement.

[dotymed]

38. Every action that OWS takes, should proudly

be posted here on DU.
Did the MSM (any of them) report on the millions of protestors across the globe, marching against the evil Monsanto?
Yet when their phones are bugged, their sources compromised, we are supposed to take to the streets? Yes, it is illegal and more proof of our increasing fascism that the AP was spied upon. It should piss us off and encourage demonstrations. It is hard to get worked up since we know (not through the MSM) that our privacy has been compromised for decades and the MSM refuses to practice actual journalism and inform people what "our" government is doing to enslave us.

[7962]

52. Believe it or not, Drudge Report had the Monsato story close to the top yesterday.

More people are waking up to their crap

[creativebliss]

54. Very well said...OWS is still strong...just not as visual...

[defacto7]

9. K&R

There is no doubt that there are many fed up and angry citizens who are expanding the ranks daily. When so much shit is happening on the side of the corporate overlords and with a government that is being stepped on by RW fanatics, people will not just sit there and let it run them down. They won't run me down. There will be a day of reckoning, and the angry, oppressed and fed up masses will fight back at one level or another.

If OWS is the leading force by which citizens of the US gain back their freedom, so be it.

[BillyRibs]

11. You should be Proud!

I see Occupy as one of the most successful movements of the 21st century. In short time without any central "leaders" to root out and destroy, No good National news coverage from MSM, and FBI and police co-intel-pro in full swing, they changed the national conversation from how much austerity? to Why aren't the rich paying their fair share? Bankers are not the solution, they are the problem and put a leash on wall street. They mainstreamed the term "Banksters!" Damned successful if you ask me.
It took the entire government apparatus Millions of dollars and months of work to Dismantle just their camps. At that point it became apparent that the Government works for the 1%. once the smoke clears on this alone a lot of cities will shell out a lot of cash. I only wish occupy could sue the policemen/women and other personnel as individuals, and not as city agencies. The officers who broke up the camps used their official offices to "persecute the Occupiers". That action alone would have them all by the short ones. What cop would try this again if they know they could be sued? court cost alone would drive them into bankruptcy. As for "We were just following orders"!? That crap doesn't float as far as I'm concerned.

[burrowowl]

14. Tell your son

I am very proud of him!

[Dustlawyer]

16. K&R! Thanks to your son! I like what OWS is trying to do on several fronts but,

they get divided on too many issues and are not addressing the ROOT CAUSE! THE ROOT CAUSE of these problems is not Wall Street per se, but our campaign finance laws that allow Wall Street banks, corporations and the 1% to OWN our politicians. We will never be successful until we have OUR REPRESENTATIVES IN OFFICE. They buy the politicians, who spend more time "Fund Raising" than they do legislating, just like Wall Street bought the NY cops with a $20 million dollar "donation" to the NY Police Pension Fund. The politicians represent the monied , not "We The People!"
You asked, "What are you doing that matters more?" I wouldn't say I do near as much, or sacrifice as much as your son, but I do what I can now and will be able to do more later. All that I do, besides just talking to folks and explaining what is really going on here, is to post here multiple times a day like this to try and spread the word that we need to focus on COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM (CCFR)!!!! I am sure some here are tired of seeing it, and I get frustrated that it does not seem to be catching on with very many. I wish the people here at DU, when they read the various post about a plethora of different issues, that they ask themselves if that issue could be solved or helped by politicians that are free from obligations or threats by the Banksters, corporations and the 1%! Thanks again to your son, I have one about the same age that helps in his way, and I am proud as a lucky father of a good kid should be! For those of you who read this far down, please help spread the word and fight for COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM (CCFR)!!!! Lets get control of our government back so we can turn this country, and this world around!!!!!

[octoberlib]

132. +1

The system has to be changed before anything else can change.

[Dragonfli]

19. Your sons an American hero in my eyes, all the young people in the movement are.

I can barely walk these days but will have to get out there with them again when they regroup.

In Buffalo we had made some progress until being evicted from Niagara Square. Councilmember "Dickhead" Richard Fontana made it his mission, spoke to radio and newspaper reporters about alleged violations of various city ordinances and codes on top of unaccountability concerning the group finances. As a result, there was some animosity within City Hall towards Occupy Buffalo, a fact that contributed to the group getting booted. He brags about it.

Before that however Occupy's relations with the city were friendly. The occupiers and the City had a contract that allowed them to encamp in Niagara Square, occupiers marched from the Niagara Square to various police and Sheriff's Office buildings to show their appreciation for the Buffalo Police. During December 2011, the city allowed the installation of a 20-foot geodesic dome on the southwest portion of Niagara Square!

In May, 2012 the City Comptroller announced the City of Buffalo withdrew $45 million from JPMorgan Chase and depositing the money with First Niagara Financial Group following concerns about JPMorgan Chase raised with the Common Council by members of the Occupy Buffalo movement they asked the city to withdraw its deposits and invest the money in a local bank. JPMorgan Chase had a $2 billion loss earlier that month, and its Main Place Tower office downtown was the site of multiple demonstrations, I was at a few hospitalized for others.

Michael Moore came around but I was laid up during that.

Last summer, after rallying in front of City Hall Medea Benjamin, members of Occupy Buffalo and the Western New York Peace Center presented legislation to Buffalo Common Council to keep drones out of the skies in Buffalo stating, “Armed drones and surveillance drones present an unreasonable an unacceptable threat to the rights of individual privacy, freedom of association and assembly, equal protection and judicial due process in the City of Buffalo.” I was there for that and very happy about it, it was cool.

That is where I met Medea, and honestly, if anyone so intent on bad mouthing her met her and talked to her as I did they would realize they are being assholes, she is no way a libertarian as slandered here! She didn't blow off anyone, was available like just another one of us for a large part of it, answered anything you wanted to ask her, was with, and not above, any of us and sincere as hell. She has hated drones and gitmo since long before they were adopted by our party. She actually spoke well of Obama but was saying he was getting way too comfortable with the drone crap and Bush crap and was concerned but had not given up on him yet. People here that talk out their rears and claim she is a libertarian Obama hater are idiots or shit stirrers and should apologize, or contact her, she is open to dialogue, you can find out what she supports instead of making up her views for her and then lying about her SID.

Her views have not changed. She voiced clear hatred of Bush drone, torture, and Detention policies and it makes sense to me she hates Brennan still, and Gitmo still and drones still.

I hope the occupiers regroup this year somehow, Fontana is fighting it pre-emptively and trying to "prepare" local LEO to "deal" with any occupy "vandalism". My guess is round two, they will start busting heads and stop with being friendly. I think some power people got real pissed about the bank withdrawal thing and don't want more of that.

We'll see. There are young men like your son here too, potential heros, I hope they don't get beaten for their principles, but as I said, money and Fontana are pissed now.

[Rex]

20. It is a revolution for the young to embrace.

It will be the biggest counter cultural revolution since the 80s. Maybe bigger.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. If you have to keep asking that question, I'd say the prognosis is pretty grim.

And stop trying to "brand" every gathering as Occupy.

[HiPointDem]

23. the poster didn't ask a question. and since her son is occupy, i guess he has a

better idea than you about what gatherings are or aren't occupy.

[Pelican]

25. I don't think anyone, including the "members"...

... knew what it was.

Past tense...

[HiPointDem]

26. it's clearly not past tense.

[Occulus]

157. Lies like that post don't fly any longer

We all know your post is full of shit.

Don't try. We're smarter than you are on this one.

[Pelican]

166. Oh, it shows....

From the long lists of accomplishments to the well thought out and effective demonstrations that resulted in significant policy change, I can tell that I am dealing with some world class intellect here.

Really.. amazing...

Edit: Forgot to mention all their current activities that they have and that the majority of the populace are aware of to show that the movement isn't dead or at the very least impotent.

[sabrina 1]

179. Lol, well let's see, President Obama knew what it was. Alan Grayson knew with it was.

Rep. John Lewis knew what it was. Most importantly, Wall St Criminals knew what it was which is why we saw that memo calling OWS a huge 'threat' that needed to be smeared in order to undermine it. They even put a price on what the smear campaign would cost.

Part of the smear campaign being planned was to claim that 'they don't even know why they are protesting' and in an effort to turn off Democrats, use phrases like 'Paultards' a truly nasty slam at the mentally ill, but for the defenders of Wall St. corruption, nothing should be a surprise, nor is it.

This weekends Global protests against Monsanto, joining those who have been doing so for years but with little media coverage naturally, was a fantastic success. More reason for the smear campaign to go into full swing.

But that is, of course, par for the course for any Social Justice movement so it is expected and has been dealt with brilliantly by OWS since the beginning.

Watching Corporate puppets like Geraldo running away from the questions he could not answer, to see the media shills exposed for what they are, simply by challenging them, was one of the best and most entertaining aspects of this movement.

It will not only be around for a long time, it is likely to grow as the Corrupt Wall St criminals continue their disastrous influence on governments around the world.

We know why OWS exists. It's odd that anyone who has been awake over the past decade does not. You really should educate yourself on this subject as no one wants to be on the wrong side of history especially when information is so available to day.

[sabrina 1]

169. Well said.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. What question? The OP did not pose an inquiry at all.

And yet you proved the OP's point, you claim to have been asked a question you were not asked and then proceed to tell the OP what to do.
It is amazing that you think you have the right to tell others to stop anything they wish to do. Where did you get that idea? People who help others never have and never will seek approval from the conservative side which dislikes seeing good works done for those who can not pay profit to them. Oh, how they freak out at the sight of free medical care or individuals helping those in need and ascribing the deed to Occupy activism. An activist who does something gets to say why they did it. Those who oppose helping those in need can shout 'stop it' all they want, lots of sound and fury, indicating their lack of deeds and actions. Few who want to help people will be persuaded to stop doing so just because it bothers someone who does not offer an alternative to serve those in need. 'Stop it' and 'fuck Occupy' are not alternative solutions, no one is going to stop helping people and just do nothing to please folks who say 'I pay my taxes and that's enough, fuck Occupy' and offer no solutions of their own.
Centrists could offer their own clinics, but they don't. They could repair steam tables and say 'I did it for centrism' but they don't. There could be Center Right Clinics, but there are not. That really says it all for those who like to help others.

[bvar22]

78. Well Said!

!


[font size=5 color=green]SolidarityOccupy!![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. Guess who was asked to and did -

clean up the cemetaries in Moore after the recent tornado so that funeral services could be held? Occupy groups in OK, including Occupy Oklahoma and Occupy Norman. Occupy Sandy was critical in helping out in the wake of hurricane Sandy, serving the areas that were not getting the immediate help from the State. Occupy Sandy is now sending aid to Moore.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupySandyReliefNyc


Check out all that Occupy are up to in Moore and Shawnee:

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyNorman

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyOKCOfficialPage

Just because you choose not to believe in it, doen't mean it isn't real and happening.

[tavalon]

87. Why?

It's excellent branding to have every protest carry the word Occupy. It has become synonymous with the Zuccotti (sp) Park protest against Wall Street. Most of the time, when I use the term in reference to protest of the status quo, there is no need to tell people what Occupy means in that context.

[Tarheel_Dem]

102. Occupy is a libertarian movement at it's core, and that's enough for me. A bunch of bored....

white kids, without a clue, supporting an old white man who is even more clueless, is not something I'd want to brag about. I agree with Hartmann that a libertarian is just a Republican who wants to smoke dope & get laid. But hey, some folks think everything their kids do is adorable. I'm not one of 'em.

Ron & Rand (You're on your own) Paul - 2016!!!! YAY!!!!

[catnhatnh]

115. Yeah-that's it...

The boy is so filled with Ron Paul and Randian dreams he spent $200 to buy those scrap tables, overhauled them free and then today tied one to the roof of his wife's car and delivered it to a Sandy relief kitchen. But you know me-I'm just one of those fawning parents who think my kids shit don't stink. To bad I don't have your instinctual insight or intellect. With those I would have realized how fruitless and self-serving this whole post was. Sorry. He is white and I guess that a full time job and raising a family does get boring. And as an old person like you I would never want to smoke dope or (cringe) "get laid". But perhaps you should...


.........GO GET LAID!

[Tarheel_Dem]

121. I'm not a closet "Republican", so trust me sex has never been an issue.

But you missed that part didn't you? Libertarians, on the hand, agree with Republicans on most of the crucial issues, except dope & sex. Fuck 'em.

p.s.: Let me just reiterate here that you were the one who introduced in evidence the fact that your son and his friends are Ron Paul freaks. I didn't do that. They are clueless as to how dangerous Libertarianism truly is. If the Pauls aren't calling on the US Congress to apologize to a company that's hiding $74 billion dollars offshore, they're telling kids they can go without food to rebuild areas that are devastated by natural disaster. You've got work to do, because apparently you didn't get the job done in his formulative years.

[bvar22]

163. Trust YOU??!!!

LOL

[rhett o rick]

190. You make yourself out to be so righteous. Tell us what you stand for. Why do you hate so?

OWS is a part of a movement that is trying to get our freedoms back. But you seem to be trying to disparage their efforts. Why? What are your principles?

[rhett o rick]

189. Do you hate all protestors or just OWS? How do you feel about whistle-blowers?

Do these dirty hippies upset your status quo comfort? What are your principles?

[brentspeak]

194. Tarheel Dem, 4/11/2013: "Occupy is a bunch of sham artists"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2654616

Tarheel_Dem (16,730 posts)
25. I know you guys think trashing Obama on an internet forum is "activism", but I've got news. You're

as ridiculous on the internet, as I suspect you are in person. What do President(s) Obama & Clinton's wealth have to do with this debate? You just threw up an entire Occupy rally in one silly post. You're not an activist, you're a sham artist, much like the rest of Occupy. Now, I'll leave you to troll someone else's posts. See ya.

Why an individual whose views are entirely compatible with Free Republic is posting here is anyone's guess.

[malaise]

24. You go Ben!!

You rock!

[Scuba]

28. Thank you Ben!

[RKP5637]

29. These, are the real heroes in America, the ones fighting to keep

America from falling into the clutches of a despotic dystopia ruled by the oligarchy ... while the deer in the headlight people, the DUH crowd, the lemmings and guppies sleep and passively enable the deterioration of what America once stood for. ... while the 1% moves them into slavery.

[Sand Wind]

30. K&R

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. Not dead, just utterly pointless.

A movement without goals will inevitably achieve everything it sets out to.

[catnhatnh]

33. Yep...look at that pointless idiot...

...imagine the hopelessness of trying to feed disaster victims or just to protest corruption. Back to my original post-tell me what you are doing that's more helpful or important? I mean besides taking cheap shots at people I consider your moral superiors?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

34. Ah, the good old ad hominem - a staple of those without an answer.

And no, I'm not going to rise to your bate, and make this a discussion of my personal moral character rather than whether or not the Occupy movement was a good idea.

[catnhatnh]

36. Jolly Well...

...why don't you feck off then and spread sunshine elsewhere?

[Zorra]

44. +1

[prairierose]

53. Great response.....

I think we need to make this type of response more often to trolls and ignorant people.

[bvar22]

79. And THAT sums it up!

[ChaoticTrilby]

104. +1

I want to keep you around on a key chain and have you say that to people who try to tell me that helping people is pointless. It will save me the trouble of screaming at them.

[Pelican]

63. Good or bad is pretty relative...

I think effective is much more quantifiable.

Were they effective? Not at all...

[bvar22]

80. OCCUPY is living in YOUR head Rent Free,

so I would say they had an effect on YOU.
Otherwise, you wouldn't have bothered to post.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. I recommend you ask the CPUC about effectiveness

Or the NRC.

I swear willful ignorance and all that

[Pelican]

118. Wow...

A national movement with "members" across the country that had enormous media coverage for months and months scored a point, somewhere, with the gas company in CA.

I take it all back... Amazing results....

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. A gas company? The second largest utility in the state

And the first.

And that is a local story. If you cared to find out, you'd realize Occupy Sandy started aid before the pros did.

And those are just two examples separated by thousands of miles. I recommend you read into the Madrid protocol, or not.

Oh and Occupy in OK s following on the footsteps of Occupy Sandy. I would say you are willfully ignorant, and that's ok. But at least admit it...you have no interest in the subject matter. There is plenty of things I don't care for ether.

[Pelican]

126. I didn't say nothing had been accomplished ...

I was talking about effectiveness.

Mass media coverage for months, members across the country and this is what you bring as their best results?

Imagine if you've got a back hoe and a bulldozer. You make a one inch tall mound.

Yes, you technically accomplished something. No, it isn't impressive. Yes, the resources that you had at hand were squandered and frankly you aren't likely to get to use them again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. Have a good day

[randome]

129. The dreaded 'Have a good day' finale! You will be scarred for life, no doubt!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Pelican]

131. I wonder if there is a support group...

[L0oniX]

140. Where's your answer? n/t

[Zorra]

40. Wasn't it just yesterday that you were saying that we should get to know some republicans?

Oh, yeah, it was in this thread:

Republicans are just horrible, horrible people

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022899928

Here's your exact quote:

"Go out and get to know some Republicans."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022899928#post16

[Rex]

75. The sheer desperation by a small handful of members over OWS

has me their attempt to dismiss something that their tiny minds cannot comprehend is sad and pathetic at the same time.

OWS is a revolutionary movement that the future youth will keep embracing as long as their is such inequality in America. The fools that want to pretend otherwise either have a clear RWing agenda or are just fools that think it is all about them.

Thankfully that way of thinking is dying out with the older generations that were all about 'Me First'. Even when they don't admit that is the reason...it shows in their every post.

Oh and then there are the genuine liberal haters...why they post on this site is beyond me.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

112. Thanks.

Quotes, supported with links, are harder to refute.

[L0oniX]

142. Perfect! n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Ah, those with cake who wish that others get none. You have NHS

Today in my American city, Occupy will provide a free medical clinic as they do each Sunday. The US does not have anything like your NHS, so for many of our low income and even moderate income people, access to healthcare can be prohibitively expensive, a concern you have never faced even one day in your life nor have any of your fellow Brits.
It is easy when you have to not even think of those who do not. 'I got mine, so let's leave it at that' is what the Republicans say. And some others, apparently.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

46. Nonsense.

It's precisely *because* I think that things like free-at-point-of-use healthcare would be very good indeed for America that I find significant numbers of left-wingers wasting their time on a movement without goals, when they could be undertaking the same activity with a clear list of goals and a strategy for achieving them like "we want free-at-point-of-use healthcare; we will protest until we get it, and we will vote and campaign for people who support it", depressing.

I think that most of the things that individual occupiers wanted were good things - if I didn't, I wouldn't be worrying about them wasting their effort. My beef with the movement was that it involved a lot of left-wing political activity being channeled into an entirely pointless activity, when it could have gone to actually achieving legislative change.

Occupy was *exactly* what I would have wanted to see left-wing activists getting up to if I were a right-winger. Since I'm not, it saddened and annoyed me.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. That does not make any sense. Is the weekly free clinic Occupy does here 'entirely pointless'?

It exists because of Occupy, not because of anything else. How is it wasted effort to create a free clinic? You get free medical care under your taxes, here we don't. Yet you claim helping those in need and offering an example to the rest of the community is 'entirely pointless'. So people get medicines that heal them. That's pointless, so why do you have NHS? Why bother if caring for others is entirely pointless?
Right wingers hate what Occupy is doing, as do the 'moderate centrists' who offer no other solutions, they just say 'shut that clinic down'.
I just don't see hundreds of people in my own town getting health care they can not otherwise attain to be wasted effort. I don't see the people helped as being unworthy of help. You find that to be 'saddening and annoying'. I do not agree that helping people is pointless.
And of course, you have free to access healthcare in your entire nation. But you are annoyed to see Occupy offer that to poor Americans. Mel Brooks said this about comedy and tragedy 'Tragedy is when I cut my finger, comedy is when you fall down and open sewer and die'. The point being that when other people get access to health care, you are annoyed, when you get it you consider it a right.

[sabrina 1]

56. Which movement is 'without goals'?? Are you serious?

[tavalon]

89. Not pointless, evolving.

[rhett o rick]

92. I am sorry you dont recognize the point. The movement needs all the help it

can get and if we cant even get the support of fellow Democrats how are we ever going to unite the 99%? The Elite 1% want us to in-fight and thus be distracted. I hope you can see your way clear to be open-minded about the movement.

And by-the-way Occupy isnt the movement, it's just a small part. The movement is waiting for the majority of the 99% to wake up and smell the Oligarchy.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. It's Sunday, and that means another OccupyMedical free clinic in Downtown Eugene

Free Medical Clinics
All are welcome, no charge. No appointments; first come, first served. If you have any medical conditions, concerns or questions, please come by. Let’s all do what we can to make our Occupy Eugene environment as healthy and safe as possible.
http://occupyeugenemedia.org/ai1ec_event/free-medical-clinic-2/?instance_id=266210

Some of DU's sick centrists don't see these services being done as worthwhile and that defines who they are and what their politics represent.

[madfloridian]

39. Thanks for that post.

Yes, we can not let certain "centrists" define us anymore.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. I've posted that information before, and been shocked at the venomous reaction from 'centrists'

some of whom are here taking swipes at those who help others in this thread. They react to a free medical clinic serving all who show up with contempt, as if they'd rather such things never happen. So sad, and yet a service to others for them to be so hateful, it lets others see the nature and quality of their political agenda.
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10022822272

[djean111]

203. Oh, if OWS had Obama stickers and posters all over the place, the centrists would be

gibbering with praise.
Anyway, why care what the naysayers think or say? What they think about OWS is totally irrelevant. Don't even, really, know what their "objective" is...............

[Zorra]

37. Yes, we are all still here, waiting. Timing is everything.

Ben gets it. Your post is accurate.

Occupy is a consciousness. We haven't quit, we will never quit. The fact is, we can't quit.

"They see evil and they oppose it and they see need and they try to alleviate it."

Thanks, catnhatnh.

[tavalon]

91. You hit that nail on the head perfectly. We are still working but

when the time is right, Occupy will once again Roar like the lion that it is. In the meantime, so much community good is being done by them, I don't see this as break time.

"We haven't quit, we will never quit. The fact is, we can't quit." Poetically correct.

[raouldukelives]

41. Big K&R for Ben! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. I know it's not dead

It's gone to the neighborhoods, like Madrid. It's a national strategy.

[hrmjustin]

55. Welcome to DU my friend!

[hack89]

50. There are millions of committed and caring people in America

OWS is certainly a worthy contributor to a long tradition of caring for those less fortunate.

[SalviaBlue]

59. K&R

[Hell Hath No Fury]

60. From one Occupier to another:

THANK YOU BEN!!!

I am so proud of him. Keep up the fantastic work, and keep moving forward regardless of the naysayers and those in power who would try to undermine our work.

Ben is the future. And it's looking bright.

[midnight]

61. I'm so absolutely wowed at the talent and dedication of Ben.... Thank you!

[WillyT]

65. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[catnhatnh]

66. I want to thank so many posters for the kind words on this thread.

It's about Ben and the OWS people, not me. As a divorced guy I have to say a lot of his raising was not my doing. Whether his step dad help or he gained his character on his own, I just love the young man he's become. And that's what I see from the whole movement-activism with compassion and caring. Unlike Reagan's bullshit, I really can see a thousand points of light there.

[dkf]

67. Oh it's alive and well, serving as a huge eyesore and making it hard for people in wheelchairs.

City removes (de)Occupy tents from Blaisdell sidewalk

City officials today moved tents and other belongings of (de)Occupy Honolulu members from the sidewalk in front of the Blaisdell Concert Hall on King Street.

The action was taken after Oahu Transit Services, operator of TheBus, complained that the items hindered access to the bus stop, city spokesman Jesse Broder Van Dyke said.

Sugar Russell, a (de)Occupy Hono­lulu member, has said group has taken great pains to ensure that tents and other structures leave at least 36 inches of clearance for people to pass by, the minimum allowed under current law, based on accessibility guidelines in the Americans with Disabilities Act.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20130424_City_removing_deOccupy_tents_from_Blaisdell_sidewalk.html?id=204585071

[catnhatnh]

68. See reply 36

The same to you.

[dkf]

69. Frankly what your son is doing isn't very OWSish.

They never organized as any type of service group or even touted that as a goal. That was the sad thing, the utter pointlessness of getting all those people together. It was beyond hippie.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Yup, why they organized from the begining to help

The down and out.

Oth I see you swallowed the corporate propaganda hook, line and sinker.

[dkf]

72. With them being the down and out I suppose? They didn't even further their own circumstance.

What a waste. They took all that mighty collective energy and used it for what? Just like George Bush took all the energy from 9/11 and directed us to what? Shop?

All sound and fury signifying nothing... But hey maybe it was only meant to be a group rant and catharsis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Well locally they have been deeply involved in the communities

Like Ben in New York.

I think the sound and fury signifying nothing is actually coming from you, via the major media.

[catnhatnh]

73. DKF-try reading comprehension-Get Lost. N/T

[AnotherMcIntosh]

113. Rec.

[L0oniX]

144. +1

[Rex]

77. What a total surprise you would post something negative about OWS!

Give up on the IRS witch hunt yet? So typical.

[L0oniX]

143. Gee ...almost every protest does that. Lets ban protests. n/t

[DLevine]

70. Thank you, Ben. You are awesome. Solidarity. nt

[BobbyBoring]

76. You're so lucky tohave a son like that

Most of my friends kids are totally clueless. A tip of the hat to Ben!

[whatchamacallit]

81. I like your boy

He seems like a good kid. How some DUers could disparage his efforts is a mystery.

[tavalon]

83. I would never tell you OWS is gone

They are an entity that will be with us for a long time and we are so much the better for it. I'm hoping we reappear as an active fighting force at some point but for now, I'm happy enough with the community development and consciousness raising going on now.

[ctsnowman]

84. Thank you.

And your son.

[secondvariety]

86. Your son

is one of the good guys. Nice to see the spirit hasn't been sucked out of him.

BTW, Ben is a dead ringer for Joel Kinnaman.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3284254208/tt1861179

[indepat]

93. What big brother has done to Ben and so many others of the OWS movement

protesting Wall Street fraud and abuse is beyond cruel, sadistic, and criminal: may all those criminally abused receive equitable relief.

[truedelphi]

108. Hear! Hear! And

It is so wonderful to know that this young man CARED ENOUGH to put his life on hold.

[MuseRider]

94. Be proud. He is amazing.

So many people just don't care enough to do anything. Your son is the kind of young person that can, if there are enough of them, save this country. Our political parties are both so very corrupt. Party means almost nothing anymore when looking for solutions. I am so proud that there are young people like your son who are willing to go out there and challenge the status quo and try to make this country a better place. We have to have something out there that at least works for the people. It certainly makes me feel better knowing they are there.

[NorthCarolina]

96. "Instead of telling me they are dead tell me what you are doing that matters more."

That says it all right there. Excellent OP.

[secondwind]

97. Occupy Albany is very much alive and well and operating.

[DeSwiss]

99. Damn right its not dead.

- We're just getting started.

K&R

[LeftInTX]

106. I'm glad OWS isn't dead

Most movements take awhile to get going. Maybe the park wasn't the most effective venue, so try a different angle.

I hope it keeps going.

Kudos to your son.

[catnhatnh]

110. This just in:

We are going to Re-Occupy Wall Street this Summer and this time we are going to get it right. This is going to be a Peaceful Protest designed to speak truth to power and wake people up. Everyone is welcome regardless of your skin color, your gender, your sexual preference, your religious beliefs, or political affiliation. We are all uniting as one to Protest Corporate Greed over Human Need and Wall Street International Globalist Banksters that are robbing us blind via Quantitative Easing and Tax Payer Dollars going to Banker Bailouts. WE ARE THE 99% AND WE ARE TOO BIG TO FAIL!!!!!!!

From:https://www.facebook.com/events/314432145348912/

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. Can't wait

[randome]

116. Are they going to do anything differently this time?

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/12/a-eulogy-for-occupy/http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/12/a-eulogy-for-occupy/

It was designed as a peaceful protest before but when they took over public parks and refused to leave and started setting up tents, that's when Zuccotti Park was overtaken.

More power to you and yours but I still don't see the value of protesting Wall Street when it's the legislators who write the loopholes Big Business takes advantage of. You cannot 'shame' a corporation or a financial powerhouse into behaving better. At least I don't see how you can.

Prove me wrong.

BTW: who took the photograph of your son being arrested?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[catnhatnh]

119. Not sure...

I believe it is a screen capture from one of several videos. Here is the arrest. At 8:30 a second film begins of the first arrest (Blue haired girl for dancing). At exactly 9:00 you can see the cops grab Ben's upraised arm in a fatigue jacket taking video of her arrest. At 11:04 you can see a guy kneeling at the police scrum and filming the arrest-I believe that is the video the capture is from...

&feature=player_embedded

[Zorra]

122. Since the legislators are owned by Big Business, they're all playing for the same team. So we

figure it's best to go after the owners, rather than their employees.

[randome]

124. Corporations are not people, remember? I don't see why anyone expects them to respond like people.

Legislators aren't employees so much as cowards, IMO. We need to give them something to be MORE afraid of.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[socialist_n_TN]

138. "Legislators aren't employees so much as cowards..."

And that right there shows you have no idea of what capitalism is all about. Read some Marx already. I bet you blame all of the abuses on "bad actors" and "greed" too not the precious capitalist system which encourages, no DEMANDS, bad acting and greed.

The only thing that will make legislators afraid is a threat to their money supply, i.e., capitalism and the owners that pay them for political and military protection.

[lordsummerisle]

117. What about leaders?

It's been said by some that the refusal of OWS to anoint leaders has led to it being largely ineffective. Does there not need to be some sort of leadership at some point?

[Zorra]

120. You have it backwards. We are all leaders. There are no followers.

Here's the sad thing ~ you see, those who say Occupy is ineffective are just jealous because they see us actually doing something constructive, and they know deep down that they will never have the gumption to put the Duff beer down and get off the couch to turn off the TV on which they watch us change the world.

Sad, but true.

[randome]

125. No, some of us who think Occupy is ineffective genuinely think it is ineffective.

Without leaders or a coordinated message, you will get the same results as last time.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Zorra]

130. And some people think the earth is flat, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.

The unfortunate fact is, some folks in this world simply have limited cognitive and perceptual abilities.

That doesn't make them bad people.

[sabrina 1]

136. The decision to be a leaderless movement was brilliant. Had there been a leader, and Faux

and the rest of the propaganda machine we call the media here, desperately tried to 'find' a leader, the same old tactics generally used against Social Justice movements would have come into play in an effort to destroy it. That was proof positive of the brilliance and the organization that went into this movement. Had OWS been stupid enough to name a leader, that person would be in jail right now, smeared, destroyed and the movement would not be as strong as it is.

OWS knew this and the very fact that it frustrated all the 'right' people that they could not find someone to smear the entire movement with, proved what a brilliant tactic it was.

[L0oniX]

145. Ever hear of OWS? Ever hear of the 99%? "ineffective"??? Try reading a dictionary. n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

147. "Leadership" is the least of their problems, however, directionless is a huge issue. I don't know..

that a "leader" can fix that now.

[MotherPetrie]

128. K&R!

[G_j]

134. k!

[Zorra]

146. kick

[woo me with science]

148. Huge K&R

Thank you, Ben.

[myrna minx]

152. K&R. Thank you and a huge thank you to your son!

[YoungDemCA]

159. K&R

[The Midway Rebel]

172. Yay for OWS and your son.

And thanks to OWS for teaching us all how to be active.

[Kurovski]

176. An idea perfect for the times It's a lifetime thing.

like a ball that can be tossed, dropped, kicked--repeat. It will out-live many of us.

K&R

[Hotler]

193. Sure wish we could get tens of thousands at an OWS march instead....

of just a few, but I've been told many times here that protest doesn't work and we should just vote people out every 2 & 4 yrs.

[merrily]

199. What a hero. You must be very proud.

Handsome, too, though I hate myself for being superficial enough to notice that.

I hope he sues and gets big, big bucks in punitive damages. Sounds like he'd know how to use them well. Has he tried ACLU?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983

[mountain grammy]

200. You should be proud..

my son told me today that I was responsible for him being the ethical person he is, and that hasn't always worked out so well for him. It was the nicest compliment I could have gotten.

[idwiyo]

201. k&r