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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsApple CEO to Congress: Lower corporate taxes to single digits or else
Apple has called for US corporate tax rates be reduced to "single digits" after it admitted sheltering at least $30bn (£20bn) of international profits in Irish subsidiaries that pay no tax at all.
In a dramatic display of how threats from multinational corporations are driving down taxes across the world, chief executive Tim Cook warned Congress that he would refuse to repatriate a total of $100bn stashed offshore unless it acted to slash the 35% US rate.
He also revealed that Apple had struck a secret deal with the Irish government in 1980 to limit its domestic taxes there to 2%.
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The Apple chief used his appearance to renew lobbying for Congress to cut a deal with multinationals to encourage them to bring back, or repatriate, the billions of dollars kept offshore to avoid tax.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/may/21/apple-wants-single-digit-corporate-tax
bemildred
(90,061 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Bankers, oil, coal, etc. also like to have that GFY-attitude in front of congress, among others....
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Well...a girl can dream, can't she?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)a dream that has some wonderful ramifications.
Too bad it stays in dreamland because this place is not about our expectations, let alone the hopes we are encouraged to have.
I would fall over in a heartbeat if any of the rational, reasonable and beneficial things happened that most of us feel should.
Keep dreamin' though!
The Magistrate
(95,248 posts)Or a simple surcharge equal to monies known to be held overseas, backed by leins against capital assets including intellectual properties....
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Of course the government should be able to arbitrarily seize the assets of corporations that have broken no laws!
And judging by the DMV and the Post Office, the government would do a *much* better job of running Apple than currently. I for one would prefer to visit the DMV than an Apple store any time.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Here in Oregon, the DMV is remarkably efficient, employs people at a decent wage, and doesn't shelter billions of dollars in assets offshore. Works for me...
Would laws have to change in order to legally enforce repatriation of these sheltered corporate funds (estimated to total several trillion...to the considerable detriment of the nation's economy)? Yep. Might that even require amending the constitution? Possibly. Is the current status quo untenable? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Addison
(299 posts)Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,583 posts)this behavior demonstrates they think they are bigger than the nation.............
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)historylovr
(1,557 posts)TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)I can just see your standard bureaucrat trying to design the next great product from Apple.
So many jokes there that just write themselves...
whathehell
(29,069 posts)hunter
(38,322 posts)Just an idea...
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)stklurker
(180 posts)Please describe, according to US tax law, what you would prosecute him for.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)The reports claim the computer maker has shielded around $74 billion in profits over the past four years from the US tax authorities through subsidiaries including two in Ireland. According to the Senate, Apple instead of taking a traditional path of opening accounts in offshore zones, created a chain of subsidiaries, which had no signs of physical presence.
These companies officially registered in offshore zones like Ireland had no staff apart from top executives. Each of these companies being an offshore entity was free from taxes as well as the obligation to file tax returns.
"Apple wasn't satisfied with shifting its profits to a low-tax offshore tax haven. Apple successfully sought the holy grail of tax avoidance. It has created offshore entities holding tens of billions of dollars while claiming to be tax resident nowhere," said Senator Carl Levin, chairman of the US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations which is holding Apple's hearing.
http://rt.com/business/apple-us-tax-avoidance-74bn-571/
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Do you voluntarily pay more taxes than required?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)your claim that it didn't is rather premature, all-seeing one.
CincyDem
(6,374 posts)They're being investigated because they've built up an off shore tax haven that's huge.
When congress passed all these laws, they didn't think someone would be able to pool up that much off shore money and, now that they have, it's more in vogue to imply they broke the law rather than admit it was a bad law.
Apple, GE, IBM - all these firms that pay no (or virtually no) tax do so with the direct support of the legislature. When the numbers become so big that they're material even at the federal budget level - all the House members start scampering around saying "Not me - I never agreed to let them do that. They must be breaking a law because our laws wouldn't allow that".
Horse Hockey - our tax law explicitly drives this behavior and to now claim that Apple (or GE or IBM) is somehow wrong for being smart about how to follow the law is just CYA positioning.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)stklurker
(180 posts)again, IS IT ILLEGAL???
understand I am not condoning it, just pointing out the hypocrisy of Congress challenging him on the stupid ass tax system THEY control...
btw, WTF does post count matter, I have been here a while, I just don't post meaningless drivel constantly to get to 1000s of posts.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Step out of line and you'll be called a paid shill and have your lack of posting history cited as prima facia evidence of same.
hunter
(38,322 posts)Hell, maybe he's got some illegal drugs in his house.
We can throw petty thieves in prison for that, why not CEOs?
stklurker
(180 posts)Seized on what basis?? Guilty until proven innocent...?
you are missing it... I think Apple sucks for doing this.. BUT, why wouldnt they if we allow it legally...?
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)just on SUSPICION of drug smuggling. Maybe we should be suspicious that these funds are backing drug cartels. Are any of these funds in HSBC owned or related banks? All it takes is a little creative thinking. Just like the DEA does when a (true) small businessman is robbed of his hard earned money on suspicion.
Of course with the average Joe, it's easy because he can't fight back as easily as Apple can.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)...assuming it's applied to top line revenue with no deductions.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Great idea...
wryter2000
(46,074 posts)Actually, what he also said is "we paid everything we owed via the tax system". He is correct... Congress interviewing him about the problems with the tax code is irony at its best. They made the rules, he maneuvered within them.. ok.. now what
FreeState
(10,575 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)Apple can't be blamed for playing in the field congress created.
Congress is mad at the unintended consequence they created so they blame Apple. It's a joke.
Or maybe they are mad it's being used by someone who didn't fund their elections at the level they think they deserve.
kentuck
(111,106 posts)Then you will not be given any diplomatic protection in your business or personal interests. We are a free country, if that is what you want to do? Otherwise, you will be taxed like every other citizen since corporations are now people. Sounds fair to me.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)That is already nearly single digits, and that is before you take into account all the tax evasion Apple has been doing.
Remember that before Reagan, businesses accounted for over 30% of the federal tax revenues. Today businesses pay less than 10% of federal revenues. And the biggest corporations are the biggest freeloaders of all.
At least Apple pays a little bit in taxes, which is better than companies like GE and Boeing that evade taxes entirely.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/04/09/460519/major-corporations-no-taxes-four-year/
When freeloaders don't pay their fair share, there rest of us have to pick up their tab.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)just declared their right to do whatever the hell they want, I have no problem with people doing whatever the hell they want to Apple & their kind.
CK_John
(10,005 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Companies waste a lot of effort chasing tax shelters; as a result, they don't make good use of "their" capital. Companies should pay property taxes, and the owners should pay taxes on dividends and capital gains at the rate of their individual tax bracket.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)thing).
not paying income tax allows corps to hold onto bundles of untaxed money -- they don't have to distribute it to owners.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)There is a lot to know about investing.
tinrobot
(10,909 posts)Rectangle
(667 posts)I don't own much of anything Apple (old iPod)-if I did I would
boycott them.
'sounds like economic Treason to me
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Oh Wait.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)and we haven't heard from certain individuals. The silence is deafening.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)on all their devices.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Won't ever buy one of their products now.
PSPS
(13,605 posts)Of course, congress will come to heel. After all, that's their paymaster barking their orders.
Apple is just another parasite on society -- wants all the services afforded by the country in the form of infrastructure, educated workforce (whatever that may be domestically these days,) police and fire for their opulent mansions, and everything else. But, like all thieves, they don't want to pay for any of it. They'd rather continue to steal it.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'm not sure if its worth posting on its own, but people on the thread might find in interesting too:
http://www.law.com/corporatecounsel/PubArticleCC.jsp?id=1362909707349&slreturn=20130420005626
At a hearing in Washington, D.C., last fall, U.S. Senator Carl Levin (D-Michigan) accused U.S.based multinational corporations of systematically manipulating laws and regulations to avoid paying taxes. They may not be breaking the law, he said, but their "tax practices and gimmicks range from egregious to dubious validity."
The companies Levin singled out at the hearing do indeed use intricate strategies that enable them to lower their tax obligations. These same strategies are frequently used by global corporations based in Silicon Valley and other high-tech hubs. Some are huge companies with household brands: Google, Apple, Amazon. Othersstart-ups and smaller tech companiesare also availing themselves of these complex tax strategies, which involve shifting ownership of intangible assetsprimarily intellectual propertyto overseas subsidiaries. "Every U.S. multinational and high-tech company of any significant size now has these international structures in place," says Eric Ryan, a tax lawyer at DLA Piper in Palo Alto. "It's routine at this point."
It may indeed be routine, but at a time when the United States and other countries face record budget deficits and legislators debate how to increase revenues, these practices are coming under heavy scrutiny. U.S. lawmakers accuse corporations of gaming the system by moving profits offshore so they can pocket billions of dollars that should be going into the nation's coffers. The Internal Revenue Service is cracking down on companies it believes are employing dubious practices to reduce their tax obligations to Uncle Sam. Compounding the issue, foreign governments that are struggling with deficits and revenue shortfalls are pointing fingers at multinational corporations headquartered in the U.S., angrily accusing them of manipulating the system and not paying their fair share of taxes overseas.
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But now companies are shifting their intangible assetsnamely their intellectual propertyto low-tax jurisdictions offshore and attributing expenses to countries with a higher tax rate. Critics say the companies are doing this strictly to lower their tax bills. And many, they attest, are a bit too creative with their accounting, so the valuations placed on their assets will work to the company's tax advantage. These types of profit-shifting arrangements cost the U.S. government as much as $60 billion in annual revenue, according to a study by Kimberly Clausing, an economics professor at Reed College in Portland, Oregon.
So yes, legal but shading into dubious and hinky. I doubt Congress will do anything but make sad noises about it all, but we could sure use the money.
CincyDem
(6,374 posts)Yeah well - if they didn't intend for someone to benefit, they shouldn't have put it in there. And if this article is true in using the term "genius" to figure out the loophole, then maybe the government should be willing to pay smarter folk to write the tax codes.
While many can question the ethics or rightness of what Apple's doing, I've yet to hear any knowledgeable accusations of illegal activity.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-reduces-what-it-pays-in-taxes-2013-5?utm_content=buffer2514b&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Buffer
marmar
(77,084 posts)....... and given our Silly Putty government, he'll likely be successful.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Too bad that's about all we can do. Try to get Congress to rewrite the tax laws so that at least Apple can't get away with their shenanigans in the future? I doubt it.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)All three of Silicon Valley's Democratic (?) congressional reps, Anna Eshoo, Mike Honda, and Zoe Lofgren.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)That way corporations cannot shelter profits from taxes as retained earnings.
All profits flow to the shareholders where they are taxed at the shareholder's individual rate.
If companies want to make added investments, they have to sell stock or sell bonds, which makes for better corporate governance.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)And your personal tax rate ought to be 90%.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)find its self in certain hands.
Don't forget about those patents we will open up and the tariffs on your crap.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)It doesn't make any sense to me. When you tax a corporation, two primary things happen - they reduce their profits and they raise their prices. How much they do of each depends on a lot of variables beyond the governments control. When they raise prices, it is the consumers that regressively pay the corporate income tax. That's a bad thing.
What I propose instead, is that we tax the profits of corporations at the shareholder level. Let them pay their full income tax rate on dividends and capital gains. Do this regardless of the national origin of the profits so holding the money outside the US doesn't help.By doing this, rich people pay taxes on corporate income at higher rates while lower income shareholders pay at a lower rate.
That seems more fair (clearly more progressive) and does away with several contentious issues - corporations refusing to bring their money back to the US, tax exempt status for 501(c)(4) corporations, etc.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)think now?