In 2011 almost 9000 people were hospitalized because of dog attacks (a 55% increase from 2001).

[Nine]

Last edited Tue May 21, 2013, 03:04 PM - Edit history (1)

To put that in perspective, only 6,300 people were hospitalized that same year because of accidental shootings (although 600 more died while only about 20 or 30 died from dog attacks). That's why this issue matters to me.

Here are the numbers from the cdc database:

*nonfatal injuries from dogs in 2011 that resulted in a visit to the ER: 355,073
*number of those above that required hospitalization or transfer to another facility (as opposed to being treated and released): 8,979
***number of fatalities from dog attacks each year: about 20 or 30
(about 9000 total serious injuries and deaths per year)

sources:
*http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html
***http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
***http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-dog-attacks-and-maimings-merritt-clifton.php

From 1992 to 2001, dog bite fatalities averaged 1.8 per year. In the early 2000s that number hit double digits and it's been rising ever since. In 2001 there were 5,782 nonfatal, dog-inflicted injuries that required hospitalization or transfer. Ten years later that number had risen by 55% to 8,979. I think that is a stunning increase. Interestingly, the total number of dog-inflicted injuries requiring medical care actually decreased slightly during that time period - from 365,846 to 355,073. Thus it appears that while the number of dog-inflicted injuries has remained fairly constant, the injuries are becoming more serious or fatal. And let's not forget that for every human attacked by a dog, many more animals, including other dogs, are attacked and killed. I find all of this tragic and unacceptable. I would hope everyone here does.

Why have serious and fatal dog attacks skyrocketed? I have my own theory, shared by many others, and it has to do with the introduction and increase of certain kinds of dogs rather than a sudden increase in "bad ownership." But there are other people who passionately reject such a theory.

And what is the solution to getting the number of dog bite fatalities and serious injuries back to the levels they were at a couple decades ago? Again, there are some who will passionately fight against any legislation that they feel targets their favorite breed.

So what's the answer? Don't tell me what you think doesn't work. Tell me what you think does work or would work. If you have some alternate theory about why serious injuries seem to have increased so dramatically in such a short time, feel free to share that too.

[Zoeisright]

1. False equivalency.

As usual.

Animals and weapons are two different things, dear. Animals have other purposes; they are pets, they work, and they live and breathe. A gun is a soulless weapon with one job: to kill.

[Nine]

2. I'm not equating guns and dogs.

I'm comparing the number of serious injuries and deaths caused by dog attacks to the number of serious injuries and deaths caused by accidental shootings to show that dog issues have large real world implications.

[geek tragedy]

5. There are 20-30 accidental gun deaths for every dog bite death.

That should tell you all you need to know about the relative severities of the problems.

[Nine]

8. I don't think fatalities is the only measure of severity.

And I don't think we should ignore 9,000 serious injuries a year.

[XemaSab]

51. If more people die in car accidents than die in accidental drownings

does that mean that backyard pools shouldn't be fenced and we shouldn't have lifeguards at public pools and at the beach?

This seems to be what you're arguing.

[clarice]

3. Who let the dogs out !. nt

[geek tragedy]

4. Your headline is blatantly false

From the body of your own post:

**number of fatalities from accidental shootings in 2010: 606

***number of fatalities from dog attacks each year: about 20 or 30

Sure, there are more hospitalizations, but there are 20-30 times fewer fatalities due to dog bites.

[Nine]

6. I said "deaths AND serious injuries."

I'm calling a serious injury one that requires hospitalization. It's not my fault you lack reading comprehension.

Are you saying that 9000 people hospitalized in one year because of dog attacks is NOT a real problem?

Would you argue that a 55% increase in such serious injuries over a mere 10-year period is NOT worth examining?

[geek tragedy]

7. It's true of 'serious' injuries, but not of deaths.

Including deaths in the headline makes it false.

Moreover, your data says nothing about how severe the typical dog bite hospitalization is vs the typical accidental shooting hospitalization is.

Hint: look at the mortality figures to get an idea as to which generally involves greater trauma to the victim's body.

[booley]

9. whether or not the headline is false, it does bury the actual issue

whether there are more injuries from dogs then guns, there are more FATALITIES from guns then dogs..

... because guns are simply more lethal.

same reason why intentional murders using guns are more common and why you are more likely to die from a suicide if you own a gun then if you don't own a gun (not because guns make you more suicidal but they make your suicide more likely to succeed). It's why mass shooters choose the most powerful fire arms they can get their hands on.

In short, the odds of someone dying go up greatly when a gun is added to the equation.

This is becoming a pet peeve of mine. One minute we have people telling us we can't speak about guns because they say we don't understand them.. and then turning around and then misrepresenting the issue to make guns seem less dangerous then they are.

[geek tragedy]

10. And, they don't discuss lost limbs, paralysis, and other

non-lethal trauma that accompany gun shot wounds.

Doubtlessly someone raised this brilliant point on Ar15.com or something.

[gollygee]

11. Any time anything is compared to gun deaths

We compare all of something to only some gun deaths. Only rifle deaths is what I've seen the most, but now only accidental shootings rather than all gun deaths. Do pets or guns cause more death?

[geek tragedy]

15. Gun accidents alone cause 20-30 times as many deaths

as dogs do.

So, the clear winner is guns.

[booley]

48. didn't brietbart try this with hammers and rifles?

Lumping every blunt object as a hammer and listing only the known rifle homicides?

I still see gun nuts trying this...

[Xyzse]

12. Perhaps it might be better to take off the other subject and concentrate on the dogs.

Last edited Wed May 22, 2013, 04:00 PM - Edit history (1)

I consider attacks of these nature an issue with their owners and not the dog themselves.

A person who is not responsible enough to socialize and train their pet, to put in the work has no business owning one. It is not fair for them nor for the pet.

If one considers a breed dangerous, it means that ownership requirements should be higher for those breeds.
Dogs are licensed and registered, and that has been the minimum requirement for owning a dog.

Additional requirements may be licensed training for particular dog breeds. I do not see the need to make them illegal in a state.

This is the reason that even if I want to have a dog, I won't get one any time soon. I can not see how I can realistically put enough time to one as necessary, especially if I adopt one young.

Although, what I think that can be helpful, and I wish I can help in, would be to have a detailed history on every dog for adoption. I don't see how this can be implemented easily, as shelters and agencies are under-staffed and under-funded. Still, it would really help to know how a dog is treated by their prior owner, and the reason they were given up. How many times they were fostered, and what problems there are.

[font color=white]Still, I must state again, you may want to edit your topic to specify that this is a "Dog Attack" thread and get rid of mentioning "Guns" as they are separate issues and it only invites more controversy on an already contentious topic.[/font]

[baldguy]

38. It's not the breed that's the problem, it's the human.

Every dog should be trained and socialized too be around other dogs. Every dog should be spayed or neutered. Every dog should be safe from abuse & neglect.

The breed doesn't matter.

[Xyzse]

44. I agree.

When I made that comment, it was directly quoting their post in regards to "breeds" which is why I added that.

So, I added options.

[booley]

49. It's also the fact dogs are alive

and guns are not.

Dogs should have more leeway simply by being living breathing feeling creatures.

A gun is just a tool.

[Xyzse]

50. Agreed.

I think the OP changed the first post to take it off already.
So, I am considering editing my post to reflect that.

[Tikki]

13. It must hurt like hell trying to cram a size 8 foot into a size 5 shoe..but, I will agree, they are

pretty and they make a statement.



Tikki

[Nine]

14. Are people really going to even deny that we have a DOG attack problem?

I didn't mention the "P word." I didn't advocate BSL. I'm asking people for their ideas on a serious issue and all I get is quibbles about an accurate headline and ridiculous claims that I'm equating dogs with guns. The stats I listed are completely honest, and if they weren't people would be disputing the numbers instead of creating strawman interpretations. The only point I was trying to get across is that this is a serious problem that rivals other issues (like accidental shootings) in magnitude of injuries but which doesn't get as much attention.

I know some people reject the notion that one breed of dog can be more aggressive or dangerous than another. I know some people believe it's not possible to accurately identify dogs. Fine. But I'm not talking about breeds. I'm talking about DOGS. I'm asking for a real discussion, offering people the opportunity to push their non-BSL solutions to this issue, and no one seems to have anything relevant to say.

I don't think it was inappropriate to compare the number of deaths and injuries from dog attacks with the number of deaths and injuries from accidental shootings. They're similar categories to my mind - tragic accidents that might be reduced through better policy. To me it would have been inappropriate to compare dog attacks with deliberate gun violence. That would have implied that dog owners or perhaps the dogs themselves had evil intent the way someone who commits gun violence has. But since the headline has become a distraction, I will change it now.

[uppityperson]

25. You are "not talkingabout breeds" yet your op is about "certain kinds of dogs".

What "certain kind of dogs" are you talking about?

[Nine]

47. I didn't want this thread to devolve into the same old pit bull threads everyone has seen before.

I also didn't want to be accused of falsely portraying myself as neutral on such issues when I'm clearly not. I chose to take a middle ground and honestly disclose that I have my own personal feelings in the matter while touching on them only vaguely so as not to derail the thread. That said, I am genuinely interested in hearing other people's ideas and solutions, especially alternatives to BSL (breed specific legislation), but it seems some posters won't let this thread be about anything but pit bulls and BSL.

[baldguy]

39. What we have is a problem with people not being responsable.

If we don't target irresponsible people, the problem will never be solved.

Part of being responsible is to be honest about the problem and to not sensationalize & lie about it.

[FLyellowdog]

16. Why do you hate dogs? nt

[Nine]

17. Why don't you care about the dogs attacked by other dogs? (nt)

[FLyellowdog]

19. Two words....

Cesar Millan

[ErikJ]

18. It looks like this breed fad parallels that of the rise of the SUV and Hummer

during the Bush years.

[baldguy]

20. False equivalency. You're much more likely to survive a dog bite than a gunshot wound.

Last edited Tue May 21, 2013, 04:42 PM - Edit history (1)

And your premise that there has been a dramatic increase in dog bites is false. According to your primary source: From 1979 through 1994, attacks by dogs resulted in 279 deaths of humans in the United States. That's an average of 18.6 per year. From 1995-1996, there were an additional 22. Before that, they simply weren't reported in the news media. Per the old adage, dog bites and dog bite deaths were not considered of interest.

Another issue is that "dog bites" are often misreported: http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/whatisadogbite/

“What is a dog bite?”: the question seems simple enough. Most of us would describe a dog bite as an incident where a dog deliberately inflicts an injury to a person. However, animal control and public health departments consider any incident in which a dog's tooth or nail breaks a person's skin - regardless of the circumstances or any characterization of the dog's intention - to be an animal exposure that merits their notice.

Based on this definition, animal control and public health departments classify all of the following types of animal exposures as dog bites:

• Nips from playful puppies.

• Scratches from a dog's nail.

• Scrapes from a dog's tooth.

• Accidental bites by dogs.

• Bites from injured or ill dogs receiving assistance or comfort from Good Samaritans (e.g. dogs hit by cars).

• Bites by working K-9 dogs delivered in the performance of police duties.

• Bites delivered to canine professionals such as veterinarians. These may have occurred under extreme duress, such as if the dog was in pain or otherwise unable to control its behavior. (e.g. a vet tech bitten while removing intubation tube from a dog's throat)

Also:

There is no national system in the United States for tallying reports of dog bites. The often-repeated estimates currently cited to argue that there is still a dog bite "epidemic" derive from two telephone surveys conducted to assess a wide variety of injury risk factors and injuries. The first survey was conducted in 1994. From among the 5,328 persons who responded to this survey, interviewers obtained reports of 186 dog bites participants reported had occurred within the 12 months prior to the interview. (Only 38 of the 186 bitten sought medical attention). The second survey, conducted between July 2001 and February 2003, returned a result showing that dog bites had declined overall, and had declined significantly among children.[iv]

And given that your info is based on nothing but news reports, it is incomplete, flawed & inaccurate. And the fact that you reference well-known propaganda sites in your OP casts your numbers into question also. It's surprising you didn't include the NRA in your gun statistics.


As to the issue of what can be done, It's not rocket science. Make the people who are supposed to be responsible act responsibly:

To reduce gun related injuries & deaths:
-Register all guns
-License all gun owners with national licensing standards
-Ban extended clips
-Ban assault weapons
-Every purchase requires a background check
-If you've been convicted of a felony you are prohibited from owning any gun
-Attempting to sell a gun to a gun to someone you know is prohibited should be a felony.

To reduce dog bite related injuries & deaths (surprisingly similar):
-License all dog owners & require training to get the license
-Register all dogs
-Require that the owner trains & socializes the dog to get a valid registration
-Require that the dog be spayed or neutered
-Breeders would be licensed differently, with more stringent requirements
-People would be prohibited from training privately owned dogs to attack humans
-Animal abuse should be treated the same as any assault on a human, with real jail time
-Abusers would be financially reasonable for rehabilitating the animal they abused
-Abusers would be prohibited from owning or supervising any animals.
-And if, after professional training & rehabilitation the animal still can't be rehabilitated, the abuser would be financially responsible for putting them down

in addition:
-Animal control officers should have all the same official powers as other police officers.
-Breed bans & breed specific legislation should be eliminated.

[Daemonaquila]

21. Non-issue

We don't need to get all concerned over every source of injuries. People do dumb things. They get hurt. They die. Sometimes they do dumb things around animals, and sometimes animal owners do really dumb things in training and keeping their animals.

9000 per year from this source? Not even worth worrying about.

[Nine]

34. Your compassion is overwhelming.

9000 people a year hospitalized because of "dog attacks" is not worth worrying about? You know, some of those injuries are absolutely horrific.

I'm offended by your victim-blaming. And if someone is injured due to someone else's stupidity, how is that acceptable to you?

[hollysmom]

22. I had to see the doctor 4 times from cat bites/claws

Where are the cat hating threads?
Mind you, none of the cats were mine, but friends and sister and neighbors. One climbed in my lap purring, and I reached down to pet it like always and it just bit me and would not let go. Had to bring it to neighbor to pry it's mouth apart. Then had to go to doctor for stitches and tetanus shot.

How many of us have been attacked by cats? I bet a lot. Or cat sitting a cat that seemed to love me, on the 4th day, walked in the house and could not find the cat, then it sprung from behind me and attached itself to my leg. , had to get a fork to pry it off me, stitches and tetanus again, only fed it with heavy jeans on in the future. Or sleeping at my sisters house, woke to find her cat had climbed in under the covers and nestled next to my stomach. Silly me went back to sleep instead of taking it out and shutting the door. Hours later - a bloody stomach.
and so on.

[Nine]

23. Were you hospitalized for it?

The 9,000 number is just for people who were hospitalized for dog-inflicted injuries.

And this is not a dog-hating thread. I don't hate dogs. I hate the injuries caused by dog attacks and would like to see their number and severity reduced.

[hollysmom]

24. no, but I still have the scars

Does that count and it was very painful for days - I suppose if my doctor did not work down the street, I might have gone to a hospital instead, but I an 1/2 a block from my physician and he always fits me in in an emergency. I am willing to bet the most people hospitalized for dog bites were just in the emergency room for the same treatment.

I would love it if people kept their cats indoors and not wandering around.

[Nine]

28. Hospitalization does not mean you simply walked into an ER.

The stats are from the CDC and they distinguish between just being treated and released in the ER and actually being hospitalized:

4.2.6 Data Element: Disposition

Disposition: The status of the injured person at the time of release from the emergency department. The five possible categories are treated and released; transferred to another facility (e.g., trauma center, rehabilitation unit); transferred and hospitalized; hospitalized; and observed (i.e., held for observation) or unknown.

The number of people treated and released for dog bite injuries in 2011 was 339,340, not 9,000. The CDC does not provide statistics for cat-inflicted injuries.

If you think that I'm concerned about injuries that are on a par with a cat bite or scratch that is painful for several days, you are really off base. I'm concerned about horrific, disfiguring, life-altering injuries.

[hollysmom]

37. I get it, but don't think these cat attacks were piddling

Until you have to walk a quarter of a mile with cat teeth embedded in your arm, you really won't understand.

Yes dogs are mostly larger and can do serious damage, but cats can scar you as well, just saying. My dog, vicious as I was told she was, would never bit anyone or anything beside a rodent.The precious dog thought she was a child nanny. There can be some vicious attacks by dogs, but I am willing to bet there are more bites and scratches doing middling damage by cats in this country. The shelter I worked for did owner screening to prevent this sort of thing, as I was screened adopting my dogs, mostly they just give people cats. Register dogs and owners, just saying, but register cats as well.

[Arugula Latte]

26. Dogs can usually do a hell of a lot more damage than cats, though.

My son got off the school bus one time and the neighbor's dog just came up to him and bit his leg, drawing blood. My son wasn't even looking at the dog; hadn't even seen it until it bit him. When I was a kid a neighbor's dog bit my hand out of the blue (I was pissed because that dog shared my name; I thought we were simpatico, Lol). My sister had to get stitches in her face from our grandparents' poodle. A friend of mine was mauled by a "friendly" pet dog when she a child and had to get surgery on her face. And so on.

Also, when was the last time you heard somebody being killed by a cat? I guess it has happened in human history, probably through untreated infection, but that death toll is rather low.

Hmm, I guess all this is partially why nobody in our family is a dog person...

[hollysmom]

27. My dog draws blood all the time from me

But that is because her nails grow so fast. I think she is petting me or something I wake up and she is scraping my back and wagging her tail. It is hard to explain all the marks from her, she is really not attacking me, but her nails grow very fast and very sharp. I have to find the plug for the manicure set so i can wear her nails down every night. At least I have trained her to not go after my face, she came close to the eyes early on. Still, not vicious, just careless. In fact, she is the most affectionate dog i have ever had, needs x many hugs every day. When I am sitting in my chair she comes up and leans on the arm of my chair and throws her paws around me and leans her head on my chest = hug, stays for a while, then moves on only to repeat it several times a night.

[Orrex]

35. She's tenderizing you.

You've been warned.

[Arugula Latte]

36. Lol.

[hollysmom]

40. thanks, now I am scared!!!!

[jmg257]

29. Almost 7000 people are shot accidentally annually? Wow!

Didn't realize it was so many!

[HiPointDem]

30. and the reason is: the increasingly shitty economy.

[REP]

31. 1% of dog bite victims are hospitalized while 5-10% of cat bite victims are

Source: American Association of Hand Surgeons

[galileoreloaded]

32. Whenever celebs jump on a "cause" like baby munching dogs

You just know its alllllllmost over. That pendulum swings both ways. Wait till some celeb idiot looses a kid to an animal bred for violence and see how quick that shit snaps back to reason.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. That's why lawyers are dog lovers.

Dear old Fido has paid for a lot of new cars and vacations in Paris thanks to their dumb-ass owners who won't keep them behind fences.

[baldguy]

41. Hence the rise of malicious litigation websites like DogsBite.org and DogBiteLaw.com.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. What makes them "malicious"?

When I was a rookie postman I asked a supervisor what would happen if I got bit. He said the P.O. will provide medical services and give me the name of a good lawyer.

[baldguy]

43. They're sensationalistic, they lie, they use inaccurate & outdated research

(such as the Clifton report referenced in the OP.) And when researchers, institutions & foundations try to subject such reports to peer review and provide current information to the public, they malign & slander them.

[Nine]

45. How would people feel about dog owners being required to carry liability insurance, same as drivers?

That's a type of non-breed-specific legislation that I personally think could be useful. But I imagine the insurance companies themselves would want to insure dogs differently based on breed, size, environmental factors, etc.

How would people feel about dogs being microchipped and their breeders sharing some liability for the dogs they have bred?

[galileoreloaded]

46. I think the dog humpers would have a figurative cow when the all the landlords say "no pets".

never happen me thinks.

[Celldweller]

52. easy... thats because

of the vast popularity and explosion in population of Golden Retrievers.



oh wait.... thats not it!

[Nine]

53. Heh. Well almost no one else seems to have any ideas they want to share.

I find the lack of response interesting.