There is a moral problem with America when something as devastating as the Oklahoma tornado

[mmonk]

is debated concerning helping those affected along money or cost issues. There should be no debate in appropriating federal money.

[kentuck]

1. Amen!

to that!

[Bake]

54. Oh, you know, "let 'em eat cake!"

And we all know how THAT ended ...



Bake

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. These are the signs that show us

we're no longer a country.

[awoke_in_2003]

74. The empire is crumbling fast. nt

[Chaco Dundee]

90. right but late

The empire has crmbled long ago.all we see are the last kicks.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. Or that people would want to condition aid and relief upon a sense of score settling.

For perceived past slights.

[jessie04]

4. There wouldn't be if it wasn't for

idiots like Inbred and Coldheart.

[MuseRider]

5. Sounds like a 5 year old

making peoples names into an insult and saying neener neener, they did it first. Are you really proud of that?

[jessie04]

6. It's pretty much the only thing I can do to insult them.

And it feels damn good.

[MuseRider]

7. That is about the saddest

most pitiful, uncaring thing I have ever seen. I feel really sorry for you.

[Demoiselle]

10. ...Most pitiful and uncaring?

Where do Coburn's comments about "offsetting" relief costs to tornado (and Hurricane Sandy) victims rank on your list of most pitiful and uncaring?
Good grief.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

12. Oh so it is OK to act like this because a Repuke has/is?

The idea is to take the high road. Please do so.

[truebrit71]

17. "Taking the high road" got us to where we are today in politics...

...endless compromises where we give away 99% and get the shaft in return...the only way to beat a bully is to punch them back HARDER then they punch you....

[Lady Freedom Returns]

20. So two wrongs make a right now?

Really?

[frylock]

25. exactly what effect will Demoiselle's comments have in securing or not securing relief funds?

i'm guessing ZERO.

[truebrit71]

37. Nope, but they get you elected...

...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. How's that working out for peace in the Middle East? nt

[truebrit71]

38. We won't know until the US stops supporting the bully...

...with weapons and $$$...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

50. Well you go ahead then. Stand up to those bullies....

...you know, the ones without houses and what not.

Can't take the high road when it comes to disaster relief.

[truebrit71]

58. WTF are you talking about?

When did I say that the victims were the bullies?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

60. "[T]he only way to beat a bully is to punch them back HARDER then they punch you"

Please explain what you meant by "punching back harder."

And please explain exactly who are you punching here?

[truebrit71]

83. The republican bullies...

...i thought that was fairly self-evident, no?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

84. No, it's not self-evident.

Because the people you'd actually be punching aren't the "republican bullies" but instead people whose lives have been devastated by a natural disaster.

[truebrit71]

85. Yes it is if you read the thread.

Read the post i was replying to. Nothing to do with punching victims and everything to do with punching republicans...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

86. And how exactly are you suggesting we "punch" the Republicans as it relates to Oklahoma? nt

[truebrit71]

87. You are missing the point...my response actually has bugger all to do with OK...

...but with the admonition that we need to "take the high road"....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

88. Which simply means not playing politics with disaster relief aid.

Even if they have.

And yes, that's exactly how it ought to be.

[liberalmike27]

110. Right

While republicans use every trick, deceit, even illegality, trickery in elections to get what they want, even when it's mostly against what our population wants, certain Democrats continue to want to fight fair, to be kind, to be nice.

And Democrats continue to lose, and lose, and lose.

We've got to fight by their rules. This would mean saying "OK, if you want to make cuts, then we need to cut subsidies to oil and coal companies to start. They make products that create conditions in our climate, that make these tornadoes worse, and more frequent, so it stands to reason we need to stop giving them tax breaks. We can use this money to pay for disaster relief."

This is fighting by their rules. Of course, offer the relief without the conditions, but be ready with this, to reluctantly present if they insist on cuts.

[busterbrown]

93. God someone else as pissed as me.

Democrats lack spine and chops.. Things are not gonna change until we start throwing some punches back at em...I say the only way things change is when the old white dumb xenophobic, homophobic, racists in our country reduce their population by 50%.. They have a caused a ton of suffering and death in this country and I feel little compassion for them....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

97. Well, denying storm relief aid would be a pretty shitty way to "fight back" if you ask me. nt

[truebrit71]

109. And no-one is suggesting that....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

118. So what is being suggested?

Other than a generic "fighting back"?

Because that's just not that clear to me here.

[cui bono]

23. Demoiselle wasn't justifying any behavior. They were questioning the ranking of pitiful

and uncaring things by the poster they were replying to. It had nothing to do with taking the high or low road.

[John2]

94. I think the idea

is to tell the Truth, no matter how much it hurts. I'll say this to the people of Oklahoma, get rid of your rightwing leaders. They are no more than Cult leaders like Jim Jones and David Koresh. Put rational people in office. People just can't take the Truth even if it is life threatening. Accept the Aid and the things to prevent life threatening situations doing Tornadoes. The school should have had a storm cellar.

[MynameisBlarney]

13. Really?

You must not get out much.

[Zoeisright]

14. Grow the fuck up.

THAT is the most uncaring thing you have ever seen? What about those two assholes voting to not let hurricane victims get financial aid? WTF is wrong with you?

[Myrina]

16. How's the view up there on your high horse?

[calimary]

19. The problem with taking the high road is - it too often takes you straight over a cliff.

At least in this political climate. Taking the high road just seems to disarm our side and let the other side run amok and take over the narrative and the noise and all the face-time on TV/cable.

I posted elsewhere another approach, and MAN am I getting lambasted for it. But everything else we've tried - even when giving the john boners of the world 98% of what they wanted - it's STILL not enough. Einstein is quoted as saying the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again, and hoping somehow for a different result.

So what's the solution then?

[cui bono]

24. You know, fighting back IS taking the high road!

But Dems don't want to fight back. They're bought as well. Most of them.

And the people are still playing politics as team sport (very much so on this board) and so they keep defending the Dem Party even though it's not fighting for us as a whole.

Went OT but what the hell... it's a message board.

[calimary]

46. Point made. HOWEVER, I'd rather defend a party in which there actually are people who DO see this

and DO fight. AT LEAST our side has people like Elizabeth Warren and Barbara Boxer and Al Franken. Who've they got, on the other side? Anybody? Who are the "leading lights" on that end of the political spectrum? Anybody? Got a name? Other than just more walls of obstinate 6th-Century minds that willfully refuse to see reality for what it is, and facts for what they are.

More false equivalency, seems to me. They're NOT all the same. The two parties are NOT the same. Yeah, there are some spineless assholes on our side. They're everywhere. But there's far more of them on the other side than on ours. There actually ARE people in our camp who do share our views. I'd challenge you to find even three to five on the other side with whom you'd find any sort of serious agreement on some of these serious issues. There's virtually NOBODY on that side that would share your/our views.

[cui bono]

63. I agree. And I don't think they're the same at all. But unfortunately the Dems are also complicit

in so much. Let's face it though, the Cons are Wackadoodles, waaaaaay over the the extreme at this point and unfortunately, rather than go back towards the left the Dems just move farther right. So when they have to compromise they move everything right of where it already is. At least we're making a little headway on social issues. But when corporations are writing policy that both parties sign into law you know something has gone terribly wrong.

[frylock]

30. well aren't you special..

take off your rose colored glasses and maybe you'll bear witness to some of the saddest, most pitiful, uncaring things you'll have ever seen at least 10 times a day.

[mountain grammy]

33. Oh stop it! I'm not happy with insults either, but sometimes it does feel really good.

[calimary]

47. Yeah. I know what you mean, mountain grammy.

Sometimes it does feel good. And sometimes these are things that actually do need to be said.

[mountain grammy]

55. Yes, like the only way to spell the GOP loser's name is RMoney.. I I feel better.

[calimary]

56. My favorite has always been "republi-CONS."

'Cause all they offer is a CON JOB.

[mountain grammy]

89. Yes, and if the shoe fits.. We shouldn't treat them like they're serious,

because they're not. But they are dangerous.

[Arugula Latte]

52. Wow, talk about misplaced pity.

[Blue_Tires]

18. Doesn't mean he isn't right...

I can't prove that Inhofe *isn't* some inbred pig-fucking evil lowlife scumbag piece of shit, and Coburn's cold heart is easily well-documented...

And just to put it in grown-up language -- It is my stated opinion that the congressional delegation from the great state of Oklahoma have not done a very good job in the execution of their duties as outlined in the following guides:

http://www.ethics.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=efa7bf74-4a50-46a5-bb6f-b8d26b9755bf

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/SMAN-112/pdf/SMAN-112.pdf

http://www.rules.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=RulesOfSenateHome

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hres5eh/pdf/BILLS-112hres5eh.pdf

http://oce.house.gov/code-of-official-conduct.html

http://oce.house.gov/pdf/2008_House_Ethics_Manual.pdf

[CBGLuthier]

28. I wonder why the word hillbilly is an allowed slur?

I only wonder because of the holler my family comes from. Oh well, haters got to hate, don't they.

[Blue_Tires]

36. Have I offended you?

If so, I'll edit...

[CBGLuthier]

39. No more than most people who use that term

Yesterday I had fun with someone who referred to hillbilly viagra.

It IS a slur the way most people use it but I have never in my life made much progress convincing people that it is.

Don't let it bother you and I am not offended but I hope you see my point.

The real truth is that asshole you called a hillbilly IS an asshole and most assuredly is not a hillbilly. As for the inbred part,, hell i don't know.

I am now an Oklahoman but , my family stock is indeed hillbilly from Appalachian Kentucky.

[Blue_Tires]

43. Good points...

I still fall into the old habit of letting my anger do the typing instead of my brain...Inhofe, the pride of Des Moines, wouldn't even fit the most stretched definition of the slur/insult...

Out of respect, I've deleted it...There are plenty of more descriptive things I could call Inhofe instead...

[Egalitarian Thug]

49. What were you expecting? n/t

[DRoseDARs]

53. Chimperor, Il Dunce, Cmdr. Bunnypants, Bush the Lesser, Idiot Son, Cokehead McStagger...

You registered in 2002. I'm sure, with your 20,000+ posts and thus vast superiority (complex) to everyone else, you can show us many examples of you tut-tutting people for name-calling President Bush.

[MotherPetrie]

108. Loving your nicknames for these raging hypocritical assholes. They cannot be insulted enough.

[Walk away]

8. I think it's a safe bet that our Democratic Senators and Congressmen will vote for aid.

I will be interested to see the republican votes. Are they going to double down on their hatred and obstruction and let their own suffer? Or will they sit up and beg for Federal $$$$s?

[mmonk]

42. I would hope so.

[Iliyah]

11. And yet your so called CHRISTIANS

are debated it huh.

[gopiscrap]

15. This is what the fucking republican party has sunk

this nation to being!!!!

[geek tragedy]

22. We'll see if the Republicans are willing to play chicken

on this issue by insisting on spending cuts to programs for poor people to pay for OK aid.

[woo me with science]

26. Thank you. nt

[oldhippie]

27. I'm willing to spend as much ......

.... of someone else's money as it takes to do what I think is right.

[Brigid]

111. I know you didn't mean to,

But you just summed up the GOP mindset perfectly.

[oldhippie]

112. Really? How so? What is different than ....

.... what we would do?

[Brigid]

114. Perhaps that the GOP types hate taxes and "big government" . . .

Unless it's to force their version of how things should be on the rest of us.

[oldhippie]

116. But there are many of us here on this thread ....

.... and others advocating that the government force schools to provide shelters no matter the cost or the probability of occurrence. "If it saves one child ..."

And it also holds true for other subjects. Many of us here want government to spend whatever it takes to protect the environment, produce clean energy, prevent global warming, etc. There are many that just ignore the practical issues if it is something they want.

[Daniel537]

29. You know i've seen a lot of people on the news

saying that folks living in these high-risk areas need to have this type of insurance and that type of insurance, and it just pisses me off so much because most of these people are poor, working class folks who are probably just getting by as it is, and to see these elitists type on TV basically scold them is so repugnant. In any sane country the state would never let people go homeless because of a natural disaster. We need to learn to really start taking care of our own. There are certain things that are just basic rights, and housing is one of them.

[socialsecurityisAAA]

31. The problem isn't just in America. Capitalism, and the inequity it causes, are a global crisis.

[clarice]

32. + 1

[Zen Democrat]

34. Tell that to Senator Coburn.

[Jack Rabbit]

35. It seems as though Republicans are trying to rewrite history by rewriting human ethics

"But golly, guys," Coburn and Inhofe are telling us, "the only truly American principle is rugged individualism. A real man can stand on his own two feet and doesn't give two bits about about his neighbor. There is no such thing as society; only individuals who are responsible for only themselves. Compassion and empathy are beneath a successful rugged individualist. Christian Civilization was built and is maintained by successful rugged individualists."

"So you see," Oklahoma's dynamic duo continue, "President (sic) Bush's handling of Hurricane Katrina was absolutely spot on an one hundred percent American. He did nothing and those who take personal responsible could afford to get away from disaster, while the poor were left to drown. Thus is God's will done."

"Always remember," they conclude, "Democracy is communism; socialism is barbarism; compassion is un-Christian."

[kentuck]

62. Repubs version of 1984!

Seems to be so.

[kairos12]

75. Those dbag senators can go to Ok and hand out boot straps and self-improvement books.

[Doctor_J]

106. And prayer books

don't forget those

[MisterP]

117. Thatcher said there was no such thing as society and Paul said that the Galveston Hurricane of 1900

is a better alternative than having FEMA exist
recall that Rothbard said that it's more moral to let a helpless, developmentally disabled child die than to tax anyone to prevent that (James Arnt Aune, "Selling the Free Market&quot
Coburn's just extending this philosophy of "some for me, and none for thee" (and so's Paul, one of the most corrupt and porky of the 400 Reps); it's also why GOPers always insist that (most of) the Red States are the "maker" states and have the lowest welfare, teen pregnancy, and illness rates
and then there's this: http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/romancing-the-stone-cold.html
these are all just yuppie ideologies designed to let their funders get even more money at the 99%'s expense (just like how the DLC is a Koch outfit)

[School Teacher]

40. The Greater Moral Problem

There IS a moral problem here, and it's about whose pain and grief is important. See all the coverage of a tragedy here in the U.S. with people loosing loved ones, homes and communities, but in Falluja? Kabul? Karachi? Drones? Who cares? Hundreds die over there every day, but it is not such a tragedy to many here. Our overblown self importance and failure of empathy with others around the globe is the real moral problem.

[calimary]

51. Welcome to DU, School Teacher!

Glad you're here. I can't tell you how strongly I feel towards our teachers at this moment. I'll certainly try, of course, but it's hard to find the words sometimes.

School teachers, much maligned, WAY too expensive to the CONs' point of view, excessive, too demanding, too this, too that - ARE THE REASON MANY CHILDREN FREAKIN' SURVIVED!!! TWO TIMES OVER!!!!!! Sorry to shout, but I AM ANYWAY!!!!!

There are children who are ALIVE at this moment, in Oklahoma tornado country. There are children who are ALIVE at this moment, from Newtown. Why? Because a SCHOOL TEACHER put her life on the line to protect them. Six of them paid for that with their own lives in Newtown if memory serves. My daughter's kindergarten teacher carried a tote bag around with her that featured the following inscription: "I touch the future. I teach."

I've never forgotten that. IMO, there is no money enough to reward them and pay them appropriately and reinforce them and honor them the way they deserve to be honored and supported. Our teachers are EVERYTHING as far as our nation's future is concerned. They're the vanguards of that future, because they teach and guide and protect our children, sometimes with their own very lives and bodies. I say give our teachers EVERYTHING they want.

All you need to see is that video of the kid whose teacher just saved his life in that tornado, and how all you saw was his arms clamped around her waist and NOT letting go. And you could hear him sobbing. She'd saved his life and he knew it. I bet that kid will never vote against teachers or vote to nickel-and-dime them when he's old enough to vote. Hopefully his parents won't, either.

Teachers are worth their weight in gold-pressed latinum. And MORE.

[treestar]

66. Yes it is

And that the pain and grief of Sandy was not so important to elected officials Coburn and Inhofe. And many others.

Liberals do have empathy for others. Conservatives do not. Here we are demanded to have empathy for people who are in large lot conservative. We do. But we know they would not extend the same to us. We should be able to say so.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. They definitely did not extend it to us

After Sandy.

But - in Oklahoma tonight are solid liberals and progressives who have lost everything. They are no more responsible for those two assholes than I am for Christie. Whatever they need - they ought to get it. I'll give to all for the good of the good ones who hate Coburn and Inhofe and everything they stand for as much as I do.

[libdude]

101. Really good perspective

Moral behavior does not stop with just me, nor does it stop with my immediate family, social circle, community, state or nation, but it should apply to those outside our nation, even to those we find reprehensible.

[Ganja Ninja]

41. Sorry but I have to disagree.

Of course I'm willing to send aid victims in OK but this is the perfect time to call out the short sighted hypocrisy of red state voters and the asshats they elect. This is only what they would have for the rest of America except they would follow through and deny funds. I'm only saying we should hold up their representatives to the full light of day and make sure that back in Oklahoma they see the light. Give them the aid but make sure they get a clue first.

[Nay]

64. I agree with you, Ninja. Send the aid, but make sure that it is well-known which rep

didn't want aid given out to anyone else's disaster. It should be trumpeted everywhere, from now until doomsday. How we expect the get the message out that these loons have gone completely around the bend without constantly calling them out on their selfishness and craziness, I don't know.

If people aren't told loudly and often that their aid is due to people NOT like their reps, they will never know it.

[treestar]

67. This ^^^^^^^

And you know, if they had the Presidency and Congress both, they would have denied the funds. And been all for it too.

Just awhile back there were threads on how Republicans can't have empathy for anything until it happens to them.

[toby jo]

44. Democrat parallel would be to insist on defunding a % of the military for OK aid.

I know I can't begin to think that way.

In international aid situations, be it volcanoes, tsunamis, earthquakes, etc, I can't recall any country, including ours, tieing strings to the aid. Impulses are set on "Go". Rightie impulses are set more on "Fear, Hate, Steal". Sad state of mind.

[HooptieWagon]

45. I see no problem with reminding Oklahomans that their Senators and several Congessmen voted against

Sandy Aid and FEMA funding, prior to approval of tornado aid. Hell, run ads showing video of them casting their NO votes. The people that vote for these idiots are themselves pretty thick-headed, it needs to be pounded in to them.
I fully expect, and hope, that the same treatment be given Marco Rubio should my state of Florida be hit by a hurricane this season.

[Coyote_Bandit]

70. You should remember that

Here on this board you are reminding Oklahoma Democrats many of whom have sacrificed and invested great effort and time to try to elect Dem candidates. As one of those Dems and I consider your "reminder" a personal insult. I know damn well that my political views are not represented by my elected representatives and are instead often ridiculed by them.

Now that Oklahoma has suffered great loss some want to use disaster assistance as a tool for political proselytization. Somehow I find great irony in the similarities between blue state dems that would use red state disaster aid to proselytize for political purposes and ghetto preachers that use soup kitchens and benevolence mnistries to proselytize for religious purposes. Same methods. Only the agnda is different.

[NutmegYankee]

73. It isn't proselytizing.

They just honestly want that shit to never happen again. And as a DUer who experienced Sandy in one of the three states with declared disaster areas, I agree. Doing what the Republicans did needs to be a third rail of politics.

I don't want any aid withheld. But if we can rub shit in the faces of the fuckers who held up aid for people in my area, then lets do it.

[quakerboy]

76. So basically your position is

That as a democrat in the primordial red state, who has invested a lot in trying to elect democratic candidates, and who's political views are not represented by your elected officials due to an overwhelming number of people voting for republicans,

you are offended by people outside your state who would like to see the point publicly made to those Oklahomans who are voting against their own best interests/voting hypcrytically, that they are voting against their best interests, and that they might want to at least consider that voting for a Democrat as we are the party that believes in things like Tornado aid for people in need, regardless of their politics or other factors?

As to the second paragraph.. Whats wrong with that? How many groups do you know of that wont take advantage of a PR opportunity to advance their cause? If your lab cures cancer, you dont hide that for fear of people thinking you did good. If you feed people and you do it because of your religious beliefs, you don't hide that, unless your beliefs tell you to. Thats how you build your cause. Do things people want to see done, be seen doing so, get more people on board because they see and agree with your cause, do more things people want done. That is the point of politics. Thats the point of movements. At least, it should be. I much prefer that to "get money from rich people, Buy a misleading message and then do nothing like what people want and instead make the rich richer, but lie about it, get more money from rich people" as a political program.

[Blue Owl]

48. The teabaggers helped get us to this point

Their stupid, misguided, non-critical thinking is why this bullshit is happening.

[indepat]

57. Tell that to the oh-so-principled Senator from Oklahoma who wants corresponding cuts

[MuseRider]

59. Sorry mmonk.

I guess I got told here. LOL

Look people, I was responding to one person who said there would not be a problem if they had not started it. If this is the way you think problems like this can be solved then go right ahead. They started it first -----> pointing your finger at them, really?

This was a lot of WTF seeing the attitudes here that I am used to seeing in other, dark places. There are a hell of a lot of high horses in this thread, mostly holding people who are hurting down until they agree with you. THEN you will give them help? Will it be OK if they just say they are sorry? What exactly do they have to do before you stop poking them in the guts before agreeing to help them out? Is not this also a bit of a high horse? What are you trying to teach them? Fuck with us and we will fuck you up unless you decide to do what we say?

I am no better than anyone else but I was expressing my opinion. I find the neener neener, you started it attitude tiresome and unproductive. I also find it without compassion and cruel. OK. There it is.

This is not the high road, it is the only road that will ever make us a community that can talk to one another and work together again. Clubbing each other will never help.

Thank you mmonk.

Have at it, I am done here. This whole discussion makes me sick.

[Apophis]

61. Moral problem? Sounds Pat Robertson-like.

Maybe those moral Christian senators and reps in OK should have heeded this advice last year during Hurricane Sandy.

[treestar]

65. There would be a lot more help there too if people in Oklahoma voted more liberally

In fact, we could have a single payer health care if it weren't for states like Oklahoma. We'd have gay marriage in all 50 states.

But if we all thought like the majority in Oklahoma, there would be no federal funds to appropriate. Just charity. With the internet we can raise a lot with charity. Maybe they are right?

People are only pointing out that per their own majority philosophy they don't need this kind of thing and they condemn its existence. Geez Louise. I cannot believe people have a hard time with that. There's no reason whatsoever not to let right wingers know that here is an example of what they fight against working well. Why can't we give them aid but still say your representatives said that people hit by Sandy should not get any? Good grief. That's like really catering to the conservative mentality a whole lot.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

68. The problem with your argument is "them."

Is "them" Inhofe or Coburn? Or is "them" Joe Oklahoma whose house is a pile of rubble?

Reminds me of conservatives talking about 9-11 and saying "they" attacked us, with "they" meaning Muslims. All Muslims, not just extremists or Al Quaeda.

[treestar]

69. Muslims did not elect Al Qaeda to attack anyone

Where do Coburn and Inhofe come from? Why are they there in the Senate? And why do they take the positions they take? The people there agree with that. Why does someone become a sudden saint who cannot be questioned at all because they happened to be a victim of a storm? How many of those same individuals would say too bad if you were stuck in a similar thing and needed help?

In fact, a Republican President would treat it like Katrina. Or then, maybe not. Some people apparently deserve help for some reason, and others don't. And that's a Republican value.

[NutmegYankee]

71. I don't think anyone on our side is seriously considering witholding aid.

But it is healthy to discuss the behavior we saw back after Sandy to ensure that everyone understands that it was UNACCEPTABLE and to ensure that no one would ever considering doing that again. It needs to become a third rail of politics to withhold or threaten to withhold aid like that.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

72. None of our elected officials are.

However, more than a few DUers are fine with doing it to "prove a point."

[realFedUp]

78. Fair warning

Ok, I'm past the shocked feelings from watching the devastation and back to practical...do insurance companies still insure homes along Tornedo Alley that have no basement shelter? Why should people keep rebuilding in this kind of area, reminiscent of insecure environmental areas and conditions like New Orleans?
These people live with this kind of weather and devastation. They had warning the day before. Why were those kids in school? Why didn't people just move out when warned? I'm sorry for those who lost lives and homes but intelligently speaking, these weather conditions occur every year and because of global warming will happen more intensely.
This is not God-made or planned...it's weather, hot and cold coming together and Oklahoma is one of those states that expects tornadoes. These teary stories are part of human condition and news media knows how to milk them.
I like that people come together, despite race, religion, politics etc. in tragedy but it's too bad that it takes a tragedy to produce that love and caring.

And BTW we wreak this kind of devastation on foreign countries without the sympathy for those killed.

[Earth_First]

79. You know what else a tragedy brings out in people? Almighty righteousness.

Your post demonstrates it impeccably well.

[txwhitedove]

81. Bravo!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

82. Shana, they bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting into. I say....

....let them crash.

[cantbeserious]

80. Obviously America Is Amoral

eom

[grahamhgreen]

91. Helping in disasters - the core of why we have govt.

[ashling]

92. Well, my mother in law says that God is trying to tell us something

[randome]

95. Bullshit. There is no debate. There are only a few pontificating politicians who make noise.

Do you see Obama engaging in this debate? The vast majority of Democrats?

Big difference, IMO.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
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[HereSince1628]

96. They want to screw Grandma over in Detroit, not Oklahomans

hit by the storm.

Something of a subtle distinction, but it seems that the argument is the US cannot afford to have BOTH have SS and disaster relief. And it's just outrageous to leave people devastated by an act of God without help.

[duhneece]

98. How do we balance consequences of the choices we make

And remain totally compassionate?
We aren't so compassionate that we give people who chose not to buy insurance (or like me, can't afford insurance for my home) the money to replace their home if it burns down (something I'm worrying about right now as NM is in its worst drought in 150 years...or more).
How do we help and still hold folks accountable for the decisions made by their elected (elected again & again, in some cases)?

It seems like a tough balancing act and we need more creative ideas.

[mgardener]

99. money vs. compassion.

And the people who are concerned about that 'balance' are the supposed 'christians'. They wouldn't want 'their' money going to the undeserved. Poor, non christians to be exact. And blacks, GLT, liberals, Democrats. Anybody 'other' then themselves.

[Zorra]

100. This moral problem has its roots in the hearts of conservatives. nt

[peace13]

102. The moral problem starts with our unending wars of aggression!

We spend our money on bombs and the people sit silently. Now we scratch for the few crumbs available to put this country back together.

Politicians working for the war machine create this. The same folks who voted for unfunded wars of aggression vote to suppress help for the American people!

[Ganja Ninja]

103. We can't just let the hostage game be played out in blue states only.

The Democrats should demand cuts to corporate welfare like the subsidies to big oil or no aid for Oklahoma tornado victims. If the GOP comes back and refuses then Democrats can point out that Republicans think Big Oil needs the money more than the disaster victims.

[florida08]

104. you're right

and when I read that every county in OK voted for Romney I had to wonder why? But then I read where Coburn was elected in '94 to the House and said he would only run for 3 terms. He did not run in '00 but returned in '04 to win reelection in the Senate.
I am baffled at how states vote against their own interest over and over again. At what point should they be held accountable for the choices they make?

[Doctor_J]

105. There is no debate. It will be approved. It will be delivered with no strings

The moral problem lies not with those who think giving relief to the likes of Fallin, Coburn, and Inhofe is counterproductive. The moral problem is with those three, and everyone who voted for them.

But your post of great obviousness is appreciated

[madrchsod]

107. there never has been until this year.

thanks to the republicans some people are more important than others.

[bigwillq]

113. K and R (nt)

[Doctor_J]

115. there is a moral problem when people like Inhofe and Coburn are part of the

Government. They are degenerates and should be treated like a disease.