Moore Schools Have One of "Biggest and Best Stadiums in the State," but no storm shelter for kids

[JPZenger]

When I was watching the coverage of the horrible events in Moore, Oklahoma, I kept thinking: why didn't this public school system build a storm shelter for their elementary school kids? The area is not only part of "Tornado Alley," but also the same town had been hit by a very bad tornado several years ago.

This is not a small poor district - it includes 23,000 students in the suburbs.

Maybe the answer lies in their priorities.

http://www.mooremonthly.com/index.php?news&action=view_news&news_id=164&a=1

Moore brags that they have one of the "Biggest and Best Stadium in the State." In 2011, the School Board approved a bond issue that included $2.2 million "to build a new press box and improve the bleachers on the home side of the field." They also recently replaced their artificial turf. They also recently spent money for a new video scoreboard.

[SummerSnow]

1. Good point and interesting.Hope they and other schools will build storm shelters

[n2doc]

2. Football is a religion out there

I'll bet the stadium damage gets repaired before most of the school gets rebuilt. Because, hey, it's important to get back to 'normal'

[duhneece]

3. I hope we continue this discussion

I hope we discuss what & how we value...

[hamsterjill]

24. Me, too!!!

I live in Texas where education is put on the back burner and sports teams are revered. The priorities need to change! I would welcome a discussion of rearranging priorities so that more legitimate needs get priority.

I'm not against sports and believe that high school teams provide valuable learning experience. But so does participation on academic teams, etc.

[donquijoterocket]

41. at least as ironic

is the fact that some 300 miles from Oklahoma City Texas Tech University in Lubbock Texas has one of the country's best programs for studying the impact of such storms and developing shelters.

[ananda]

4. Well, we know what's important there..

.. and it aint kids.

[Horse with no Name]

5. Thanks for this

We MUST get our priorities in order.

[liberal N proud]

6. This graphic should tell you why...

Priorities!


It was posted here on DU by grahamhgreen earlier this month.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022823080

[rhett o rick]

8. A national disgrace. nm

[hack89]

19. Shows an egregious bias against hockey - outrageous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. I wish this graphic would have the capacity

To shock me, it no longer does.

[patrice]

54. F-ing KICK!!

[dembotoz]

7. maybe they could have mass funerals at the stadium

[LuvNewcastle]

65. See, it practically pays for itself.

[blkmusclmachine]

9. Priorities, dontchaknow.

[winter is coming]

10. 6A football more important than storm shelters, even after the 1999 tornado. n/t

[texasmomof3]

11. Shame on us....

There is a time and a place for this discussion but today is NOT the day. Those people are mourning the loss of children, family members, neighbors. They have no homes. Their lives are forever changed. A better use of our time would be to start a thread and post ways to help. Seriously people, quit wag gin your know it all fingers and use those to dial the red cross and find out if you can help.

[BlueJazz]

15. DU'er's mourn the loss of life also...we just feel that (at least) some of the deaths would not...

..have occurred if the powers-that-be would have had their priorities straight.
We can help and do things to make their lives better NOW but we/I put some of the blame on the political structure...in the past.

[HappyMe]

18. Thank you.

Finger wagging is an art form here sometimes.

There are numerous people here that have said that the water table and bedrock prohibit underground shelters.

[MsPithy]

25. Lame excuse.

Build a cement block room half underground and pile dirt up the sides to form a gently sloping hill. Plant grass over it all.

[HappyMe]

27. You still need to blast to

get to half underground.




edit to add -- Pack your bags. Take your fabulous engineering and geological skills to OK right now!

[SCVDem]

31. Since when does America have a problem

blowing shit up?

Just drop a few Bunker Buster bombs and start construction!

[HappyMe]

32. lol!

You first.

[leftyohiolib]

59. explain this

Parking
The parking garage located below the Cox Convention Center is managed by Republic Parking Systems and offers more than 900 parking spaces. Designated parking spaces are available for guests with disablities near each of the four sets of elevators.

is that parking garage above ground with the stadium built on top?

[MsPithy]

63. Engineering and geological skills?

It's a freaking pile of dirt.

[MsPithy]

96. If the bedrock is so close to the surface,

do they have trouble growing carrots in OK?

[zipplewrath]

38. Been designed since WWII

The above ground "bunker" has been around since WWII at the very least. It consists mostly of poured concrete and some dirt piled on top. This ain't rocket science. It is really a form of complacency from familiarity. Tornadoes have been ravaging the area for centuries, and people have come accustom to the repeated disaster. It makes people stop asking "can we do anything about it".

Japan and San Francisco both finally started asking those questions about earthquakes. At first it seemed "impossible". And really, the first attempts were less than totally successful. But over time we've engineered better and better building methods such that it is VERY noticeable when an earth quake hits an area that has not incorporated these kinds of building codes.

[jeff47]

81. They're wrong about shelters.

Underground shelters are quite doable in Oklahoma. They just cost money.

Above-ground shelters are also quite doable in Oklahoma. They just cost money.

Less than a state-of-the-art stadium.

[MsPithy]

95. I think you are correct.

I was wondering, if bedrock is just under the surface, so all underground shelters have to be blasted out of rock, how do the trees with tap roots grow?

[Stainless]

20. Typical head-in-the-sand response

"Today is NOT the day" - The correct day was fourteen years ago after the last disaster struck. Okies should be enraged that their children do not have shelter/safe rooms in their schools.

[hedgehog]

22. This is exactly the time to discuss this - would you have put off

discussions of workers' rights after the Triangle Factory Fire? How many other school districts out in Tornado Alley have the exact same priorities under discussion here?


BTW - it was the immediate anger over the loss of life after the 2008 Sichuan earthquake when so many schools collapsed that saved so many lives in the quake last month

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2013/04/china_earthquake_sichuan_provi_1.html

[kairos12]

29. Exactly

[snagglepuss]

53. Bang on. IMO the best way to make these tragic deaths meaningful is to use this tragedy

to make people wise up.

[leftyohiolib]

51. There is a time and a place for this discussion but today is NOT the day" isnt that what the

gun lovers say after some nut mows down a bunch kids. today is as good a day as any to have this conversation. we can do both, donate to rc and bitch about how to prevent it from happening again.

[AtheistCrusader]

72. It costs nothing for this thread to exist WHILE you go create your 'how can I help' page.

There are things for the locals to learn from this, and things for other citizens across the nation to learn. Things like, vote out any dipshit that utters crap like this, found on the Moore city website:

"On May 3, 1999, one of the most violent tornadoes ever recorded struck central Oklahoma, including the northwest part of Moore in its path. Warning for this event was outstanding - one research survey suggests that over 95% of the people in central Oklahoma knew of the tornado and its location. While many people evacuated, many others took shelter in their homes. The vast majority of these people...in fact all but three in Moore...survived! Their homes were destroyed, but the people survived. Emergency management and weather warning professionals see this as a testiment to the tornado safety rules have been advocated for years: "In homes or small buildings, go to the basement (if available) or to an interior room on the lowest floor, such as a closet or bathroom. Wrap yourself in overcoats or blankets to protect yourself from flying debris." May 3rd was an extremely unique event weatherwise. There has never been such a strong and violent tornado ever in the recorded history of the City of Moore. Statistically, there is only about a 1-2% chance of a tornado - of any size - striking Moore on any particular day during the spring. But of all tornados that do strike us (again, not very many historically), there's only a less than 1% chance of it being as strong and violent as what we experienced on May 3rd. Put another way, there's a very small likelihood of Moore being struck by a tornado. There's an extremely smaller chance of Moore experiencing another "May 3rd" type event. If we are struck again, it will very likely be by a much less intense storm. Sheltering in your residence - assuming it is a reasonably-well constructed home - is the best option. The opinion of our emergency management severe weather professionals is that community sheltering is not only not possible in our situation, but not advisable."

[rdking647]

12. realistically...

you would need an underground shelter to survive a direct hit from a storm like this. which is not feasible to built in teh are due to the soil type and water table (as far as i understand an underground shelter would literally be spit out of the ground over time

[Stainless]

28. The Technology Exists

A reinforced concrete vault type shelter should be mandated for all schools in Tornado Alley. How much is a child's life worth? Apparently less than a sports facility.

[SCVDem]

33. Tell it to New Orleans!

If this were an oil field they would find a way to do this!

[Common Sense Party]

42. Are there NO underground parking garages in Oklahoma?

I'm genuinely curious.

If there are, then there's no reason to not have underground storm shelters.

On edit, yes there ARE underground parking garages, such as this one in downtown Oklahoma City:

Parking
The parking garage located below the Cox Convention Center is managed by Republic Parking Systems and offers more than 900 parking spaces. Designated parking spaces are available for guests with disablities near each of the four sets of elevators.

They can park 900 cars under a convention center but they can't build underground storm shelters for schoolchildren?



Can someone explain to me WHY storm shelters are impossible?

[leftyohiolib]

57. or buried storm sewers, waste sewers

[Common Sense Party]

61. This "water table" explanation isn't making sense.

[SCVDem]

70. Now that's an idea!

Pop a manhole cover and climb in!

20/20 hindsight

[leftyohiolib]

75. i was not suggesting that people go into them they are usually full of gases that would kill you

[Wednesdays]

79. I live 11 miles from where that tornado struck

And your post is one of the silliest I've ever read. There are countless homes and businesses around here with basements, storm cellars, and deep crawl spaces. It's merely a matter of paying the extra bucks to put one in.

[SoCalDem]

13. B I N G O ....n/t

[nineteen50]

14. Thats

capitalism!

[marshall]

16. We have a difficult time understanding the values of those who are far different from us

Similar comments were made about Katrina's victims. Friends of mine in Europe commented on the obesity of many of the folks rescued from the area. They said in Europe poor people are thin. It's all about frame of reference.

[snooper2]

17. A lot of the schools do if you did some research....lady being interviewed wasn't sure if the

one that collapased was reinforced or an older building...

[hedgehog]

23. and of course, it's impossible to retro fit a shelter into older buildings,

so might as well build a super duper stadium!

[closeupready]

21. Painful, but necessary, observation.

K&R

[coldmountain]

26. The bedrock issue sounds like an architectural/ engineering challenge

The country does have misplaced priorities with sports, especially high school and colleg football

[SCVDem]

35. Flash to the Rachel commercial

where she mocks that America can't do the tough things while standing in front of Hoover Dam!

[jeff47]

83. It really isn't a challenge

The bedrock isn't that close to the surface. And even if it was, jackhammers and explosives exist.

In addition, you can build above-ground shelters out of reinforced concrete.

We sent men to the fucking moon. We can build a hole in the ground.

[redstatebluegirl]

30. To those of you who do not live here

It is WAY too early for all of us here in the OKC Metro area to have you start throwing stones. People lost their kids, other family members are still missing. We heard nothing but sirens all night. You cannot imagine the destruction, the fear and the loss the good people of Moore are feeling. If you have never seen this type of thing up close you have no idea. Should we have more storm shelters, yes, should our schools be rebuilt with them in place I 'm sure they will be. But there is time for that later.

Two friends stayed with us last night, they lost their home. Their animals are here with us, they are shell shocked.

It is easy to be an arm chair quarterback (excuse the reference to football). Oklahoma is hardly alone in it's love of sports. I could point to some in Pennsylvania JPZenger if you would like. I am dissapointed by many of the comments here.

[HappyMe]

34. I will keep your community in my thoughts.

[SCVDem]

37. NO! NOT LATER!

The need is now and like gun violence, tomorrow will be too late for many!

Condolences and best wishes Sooners!

[SunSeeker]

45. +1

[deurbano]

49. I'm so sorry for the tragedy you are experiencing.

Hopefully, the intention isn't to throw stones, but to examine our national (not just Oklahoma-specific) priorities at a time when people might be receptive. (But, given the lack of gun control progress in spite of the recent tragedies, examination probably won't translate into anything tangible, anyway.)

I'm from San Francisco, and (as you mentioned) many people are pretty obsessed with sports here, too. It was kind of disheartening to see the numbers who would turn out to celebrate a Super Bowl or World Series win vs. the numbers who turned out to protest the pending war in Iraq (to give one example). And the Bay Bridge bolt fiasco hasn't exactly bolstered my confidence concerning the state of our earthquake preparedness...

Again, I'm so sorry for what you all are facing today. Oklahoma gave us Bill Moyers, Wanda Jackson and Woody Guthrie, so we are forever in your debt. My thoughts (and sadness and hope) are with you.

[siligut]

50. I know it must be absolutely awful and hearing it directly from you . . .

I am so very sorry

[redstatebluegirl]

60. Thanks to those who understand

we are headed to Moore to do what we can to help people we know and anyone else who needs it. Cannot do enough but we can try....

[Zoeisright]

69. That is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

If you think we're throwing stones at the victims, you have serious problems. We are throwing stones at the fucking idiots who build temples for boys playing games, and buildings made of toothpicks for children in school.

The stupid. It burns.

[SoCalDem]

98. Sorry, but "time for that later" ran out for the dead

And there was a wake up call in 1999 and 2003...and how many other times throughout the decades.

It all boils down to choice.. Choose safety for people, or choose entertainment

and for people who say "now is not the time"... now is the PERFECT time.. It's the time when people are really paying attention, and the fear they have may be a driving force to do what is necessary, and to stop rationolizing why they can't have a shelter:

the dirt's too hard
the dirt's too sandy
the dirt's too red
it costs too much

Is a child's life worth the cost of a rudimentary shelter ?

They do not HAVE to cost a lot, and they are not designed to be LIVED in..just used for a very brief time when getting killed is just not an option people want to roll the dice on.

[cbdo2007]

36. Stadiums are an investment that brings in a lot more $$$ than they cost....

which goes to pay teacher salaries and pay for other necessities they wouldn't get if they didn't have the stadium to help them pay for that stuff.

[LanternWaste]

67. While shelters merely save lives.

While shelters merely save lives. I can absolutely understand why many people would prioritize profits over shelters-- football is good copy.

[cbdo2007]

71. You missed the point?

[HangOnKids]

73. You did. n/t

[cbdo2007]

76. Not really, unless you think schools around the country are extremely financially prosperous

these days. Don't know where you live but school districts across the country are laying off teachers and undergoing massive budget cuts. Without teachers, there would be no students to save.

[Wednesdays]

84. Huh, whoda thunk schools get fully funded via tax money

And not have to rely on sports income.

[cbdo2007]

89. Right...and there's PLENTY of tax money to go around. I heard all the

freepers saying most school districts were coming in under budget these days and have hired many more teachers than they need. lol

[Heidi]

99. You are mistaken. School athletics do not support Oklahoma teachers' salaries.

Since you made this claim, please be so kind as to cite your sources and enumerate the "other necessities" that you claim are funded by football stadiums.

[cbdo2007]

100. Where do you think the money goes???

The money goes to the school district to apply to their budget. That's how it works all across the country.

[JPZenger]

39. Residents had storm shelters

I don't understand the geology of the area, so I can't comment on the difficulty of building storm shelters. However, I listened on the news today about many residents who had storm shelters at their homes, and who survived, even though their neighborhoods were destroyed and their trucks went airborne.

Yes, it is almost impossible for any structure to survive 200 mile winds, but at least you try when you know you are extremely vulnerable. If this disaster had happened in an area where severe tornadoes are rare, it would be much more understandable.

And in response to a comment above, I was very unhappy when my university expanded a half-empty football stadium before they expanded an overcrowded library.

[WestStar]

40. AP reporting 9 children dead

7 drowned in the effing basement under a school.

[LanternWaste]

68. Maybe they should have hunkered down on the "effin" 50 yard line...

Maybe they should have hunkered down on the "effin" 50 yard line...

[Travelman]

80. Wait a minute ... there's a basement?

Everyone in this thread is throwing a bitch-fest because "there was no storm shelter" but there was a basement?



Well, time to wake up, all you people who don't live in Tornado Alley who think you know so much about what the fuck is being done there and how schools are to be built:


THE BASEMENT IS A FUCKING STORM SHELTER!!!




Perhaps instead of everyone bitching on the internet and trying to second-guess engineers with decades of training did or did not do to make that school structure as safe as it could possibly be, some people could perhaps click on the little red X in the upper right corner and then take your ass down to the local Red Cross, donate some blood, and maybe bring some canned food or a package of paper towels or even just a couple of extra $20 bills along to try and help these poor folks who have been struck by a tragedy that was neither of their own doing nor was it controllable by anyone on earth. Maybe, just fucking maybe, that might be a little more productive and helpful than bitching on the internet is.

</rant>

[jeff47]

85. No, there isn't a basement. The kids were buried under a collapsed wall.

[Wednesdays]

86. The basement story was a hoax

The two Moore elementary schools that were hit had no basement or any underground room.

[hrmjustin]

92. This is heartbreaking! At this sad time I welcome you to DU!

[riverwalker]

43. I Googled "Oklahoma Storm Shelters"

and a zillion companies came up that install them. It can be done. If it ever becomes a priority, the communities and these businesses could come up with a solution.
We put a man on the moon. We should not have children clinging to plywood walls in a F4 tornado.

[SunSeeker]

46. K & R

[progressoid]

47. That's the case with most schools in America.

[toby jo]

48. A fellow on the news from OK this morning said that the dead would number about 500

had it not been for all of the shelters built since the '99 storm.

So good on them for paying attention and doing the right thing.

The stadium, though? Priority fuckball.

[laundry_queen]

97. I believe that.

I remember watching a special on some channel (discovery?) about the rebuilding after the '99 tornado, and nearly every homeowner who had been near that tornado decided to put safe rooms under their garage floors. I think one homeowner said it cost around $10,000 to do it, but what was that cost when compared to their family's life?

Of course, it's easier for those who can afford it. I'm all for making it required for new homes, and then maybe for older areas where it's difficult or costly to retrofit, maybe community shelters (I'm talking about the kind you can walk to in 5 min or less). After hearing the mayor today though state that they didn't implement regulations requiring hurricane clips for new homes (a really cheap solution to strengthen a home) because, "big brother and all that" I believe their irrational fear of government has cost them untold lives, and it's shameful. I can't see them jumping on requiring anything, any time soon.

But really, they should've at least had some kind of reinforced rooms for the schools. At a minimum. You can refuse to spend money on making your own house safe if you wish, but it really should've been required for these schools.

[toby jo]

52. A fellow on the news this morning from OK said the death toll would have

been much higher had it not been for all of the storm shelters that were built since the '99 storm.

So good on them for the appropriate response, lives were saved.

That stadium probably has had its critics all along. There are good people everywhere.

[JDPriestly]

55. States should pass laws that only 1/2 of all donations and gifts to any institution of public

education may be spent on sports and things related to sports.

America is spending far too much on sports.

[Cleita]

56. Of course, sports and oil reign supreme it seems. n/t

[Chemisse]

58. I was wondering that as well.

Even just a basement would be helpful. It's sad that teachers had to brainstorm places to go after the roof flew off.

[Chemisse]

77. I just read this:

It looks like they did have a basement:

"Some of the children drowned because they were in the basement area, water came in," Lt. Gov. Todd Lamb told CNN.

Even so, the horror has already sparked calls for changes in Oklahoma schools.
While Plaza Towers Elementary apparently did have a basement, it did not have a storm shelter.
"Most of the schools in Oklahoma don't have one" because of the cost, Moore Mayor Glenn Lewis told CNN. But he said he's sure that will change now.
Schools that rebuilt after a massive tornado in 1999 do have storm shelters, he said.
Oklahoma state Rep. Mark McBride called for legislation next year. "The children are sacred. We need to protect these kids," he said.
The state is so used to having tornadoes that people "get lax" and think "it's not a big deal," he said.
Now, McBride added, "it's got to change."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/21/us/oklahoma-tornado-school/?hpt=hp_c1

[Wednesdays]

87. The basement story is a hoax

[Chemisse]

90. Interesting. I wondered how so much water could have poured in

so as to drown kids.

[SCVDem]

91. If it were a hurricane......... nt

[Initech]

62. So they have money for a video scoreboard but no funds for something that would save lives.

[gopiscrap]

64. Figures it's all about fucking money

nothing beats sports for a cash crop. If we had our priorities straight we wouldn't have to worry about this.

[Demo_Chris]

66. I am not a fan of this stuff, but for many of these schools this stuff is a net earner

A lot of people pay to watch these games, even at the high school level. No, I don't know why.

[Ikonoklast]

82. Not enough money on Earth to bring one kid back to life.

Maybe the parents will start asking hard questions about school district priorities.

[JPZenger]

74. 100 Oklahoma Schools Have Applied for 75% Federal Grants to Install Safe Rooms for Students

http://www.ok.gov/OEM/Programs_&_Services/Mitigation/Wetumka_School_celebrates_Safe_Room_ground_breaking.html

The Federal Emergency Management Agency provides 75% matching grants for schools and communities to build safe rooms or storm shelters. At the time the above article was written, 100 schools in Oklahoma had applied for the grants. In many cases, the safe room is newly constructed to serve another school purpose on a daily basis (such as an athletic practice room).

[AndyA]

78. Like most places in the United States, the emphasis seems to be on sports and not education

Oklahoma is no exception.

I think sports has a place in the academic world, but it shouldn't be the #1 consideration over educating students. Stadiums should take a back seat to teaching students the things that will help them to succeed in the world, and the positives of physical activity and learning to be good sports should take precedence over who has the biggest/best facilities.

This is where the "dumbing down" of America begins, as it tells students winning is the most important thing, regardless of how it happens and above all else.

[Dawson Leery]

88. American priorities.

[moondust]

93. Shelters at some OK schools but not all.

Saw a press conference where some OK official said this. He said there wasn't enough money to put shelters in all the schools.

Maybe more tax cuts for the rich will take care of that.

[SHRED]

94. ABC Evening NEWS just now

Sawyer and her sidekick were discussing why there were no shelters at this school and they said that it was reported to them that there "is not enough funds".

Sawyer and her sidekick then said, "there will be lots of questions to come"...yet they didn't ask a single one.