If you have to be trapped by a tornado, Oklahoma City is probably the best place in the country...

[Logical]

The first responders there know bad weather and know weather related disasters!

Many have a lot of experience! Which is a good thing today!

Here is too all the Oklahoma First Responders! Good Luck!!

[jeff47]

1. No, it's actually a really bad place to be.

Oklahomans have been voting against public storm shelters for decades. They've been voting against storm shelters in schools for decades.

Oklahoma is surprisingly ill-prepared for tornadoes. Heck, Milwaukee requires storm shelters in schools.

[flamingdem]

2. This has to change that!

I'm guessing you mean local elections

[jeff47]

3. Local and state.

They've been voting for "small government" people who believe such requirements are "big government".

And I really don't expect this to change it. It's not like tornadoes are uncommon in Oklahoma.

[flamingdem]

4. How ridiculous

Is it so expensive to create storm cellars -- or at least have transportation worked out.

I listened earlier and they were urging people to leave - I guess what was lacking was transport

[jeff47]

7. It is expensive in Oklahoma

When you build a building, you have to put the foundation below the "frost line". Above the frost line, the ground freezes in winter. Freezing ground expands, and would literally push the foundation out of the ground.

In colder climates, that line is around 8 feet deep. So building a basement or storm shelter is relatively cheap - you are already having to dig deep for the foundation, so digging a bit more for a basement doesn't add a lot of expense.

In warmer climates, the frost line is much, much shallower. The frost line in Oklahoma City is about 18". That means digging a basement or storm shelter adds a whole lot of digging, and thus a whole lot of cost.

[flamingdem]

8. Thanks, that helps me be less angry

but it sure seems worth it (now) to have shelters underground at the schools, so sad!

[jeff47]

9. Well, just to anger you up again

You can build above-ground storm shelters.

If I were dictator, the schools in Oklahoma would have to have a windowless, reinforced concrete block room that can contain the entire school's population. Configure it as an auditorium. In case of tornado, the school is evacuated into this room, which could withstand the tornado even if the entire school collapses around it.

Much cheaper than a storm cellar....but still more expensive than doing nothing.

[flamingdem]

10. I blame Republicans for not doing that and

for helping the climate change that very possibly has to do with this .. yet another .. monster storm!

Okay I'm mad again!

[WCGreen]

12. For some reason, we have survived with basements and underground

storage facilities here in Cleveland and we have some pretty harsh weather.

You have to build in drainage piping so that no water can accumulate between the house foundation and the earth it is built in.

[jeff47]

13. Kinda depends when the houses were built and what's expected

Frost line is Cleaveland is about 3 feet. So the foundation has to be at least 4-5 feet deep. To get a usable basement, you have to go down to about 8 to 10 feet. So you're about halfway there in Cleveland.

But Cleveland's also an older city. Basements used to be put in all houses, because that's just how you built houses. Construction techniques used in Cleveland spread from the Northeast where they had to go 8 feet anyway, so every house had a basement.

That "every house has a basement" thing can continue for quite a while on it's own. Especially back when labor was much cheaper, and you could dispose of the dirt cheaply. That can lead to "every house has a basement" surviving much longer in some cities than others.

[jtuck004]

14. What the price for 24 dead kids laying drowned in a pool of water under the wall of a school?

Maybe they should lay pictures of them on the floor of the House of Representative and make them walk over them to vote against it. They are in real life.

It doesn't seem too expensive for Federal buildings, hospitals, big business buildings downtown. Heck, OKC even built a network of tunnels downtown and filled them with restaurants. Not very good ones either. And they didn't deem that too expensive. They built OKC Community College underground to begin with, and that held thousands of people.

Maybe the issue is how we value things, rather than "expense".


I should mention - my first F5 there was when my dad threw my mom and me under a couch and lashed himself to a pole in the shop. The next one I really remember (at least in OKC) was in Moore in 1999. Now this one - and it will be an F5 after they survey the damage.

[Hugabear]

5. Anti-tax neanderthals

Sadly, I doubt that even this will change their minds.

[DallasNE]

18. I Thought One Of The Schools Had A Storm Shelter

And some of the kids drown in that storm shelter when a water pipe broke and flooded it with water. Looks like building codes need to be reviewed and updated.

[Rhiannon12866]

19. That makes no sense, can't imagine people will still feel this way after today

Just saw a small below ground shelter on MSNBC. The house is completely gone, but the six family members and their pets survived because they were below ground. Everyone needs to have a shelter or safe place.

[reformist2]

6. The storms in that part of the country are frightening. I'll just stay on the East Coast.

I'll take a hurricane any day over a tornado.

[flamingdem]

11. You get earthquakes too

I remember how freaked out people were when that happened. I live in CA so it's normal here.

[wake.up.america]

15. I would think it would be required to include tornado protection

[Zoeisright]

16. No shit.

Construction ordinances are obviously too lax and out of date. You shouldn't be able to build shelter there without enough adequate tornado shelter for everyone in a building.

And first responders EVERYWHERE are very good at search and rescue. The OP is full of shit.

[Cleita]

17. I bet they would rather have found live people in tunnels or bunkers

after digging through the rubble instead of maimed, bloody and dead children. Just a thought.