Charles Ramsey is still a hero. His own domestic violence record doesn't negate what he did to free

[DonViejo]

Charles Ramsey is still a hero

His own domestic violence record doesn't negate what he did to free Amanda Berry. It makes it more remarkable

BY JOAN WALSH

In hindsight, maybe Charles Ramsey was trying to tell us something when he insisted to Anderson Cooper Tuesday night that he’s not a hero. “No, no, no. Bro, I’m a Christian, an American. I’m just like you,” he told the news anchor.

Maybe he knew the whole hero story line would come with an unhappy ending: Now we’ve learned, via the Smoking Gun, that Ramsey was charged with and served time for multiple domestic violence counts. He was also convicted and imprisoned on drug charges and receiving stolen property.

All of that is awful, particularly for his ex-wife and daughter. But it doesn’t change the fact that Ramsey was a hero when he helped Amanda Berry escape Monday night. It may make him even more admirable, if he had an inkling that his sudden fame might expose his troubled past.

Writing my piece about Cleveland’s lost girls, I watched Ramsey’s interview with Cooper twice just before the news about his past convictions broke. Even without that information, I found the encounter a little strange. For one thing, Ramsey insisted on saying Ariel Castro was “cool,” and not a “freak of nature.” He seemed to be reminding us that even monsters can appear decent, and even decent people can do bad things.

full article
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/08/charles_ramsey_is_still_a_hero/

[Buzz Clik]

1. +1

[sibelian]

2. This whole issue is thoroughly ludicrous.

What are we to assume, that someone with no criminal record is MORE heroic for rescuring kidnap victims than someone who DOES have one?

So, what, the rescued women should be slightly less impressed or less grateful or something?

Whu?

Flip it round.

Are we to assume that the victims of his previous violence are supposed to say "Oh, well it's all okay now cos he rescued some kidnap victms. All the bad stuff he did was actually fine! Goodness, certainly took a long time for us to find out, though! All those silly emotions we had!"

I seriously can't understand why this part of the story is even being related. The only response, logically, morally, I would go so far as to say spiritually, that makes any sense is "so what? Why are you bringing that up, exactly?"

Does anyone think the kidnap victims are going to be sitting at home thinking "O. M. G. Hew was a serial abuser. I feel so much less liberated now."

FFS.

[randome]

5. I don't see that anyone is talking about the victims' reactions.

The reactions being questioned are from those who think Ramsey is a 'hero' for helping someone who ran to him for help.

I agree he did a good thing but I think the urgent need to label him a hero is unnecessary.

[Orrex]

7. Perhaps we should ask the person who ran to him for help.

If she thinks he's a hero, then that's good enough for me.

[randome]

13. Not for me. I'll still form my own opinion.

And a drowning person will clutch at the first thing he/she sees that will save them.

I don't want to diminish what Ramsey did. He did a good thing. All these threads trying to determine whether he is, on balance, a good person or bad, are irrelevant to me. We are all a mix of good and bad.

[Orrex]

14. Well, your opinion in this is irrelevant

As is mine.

If he is named a hero, it diminishes me not at all.

[sibelian]

17. We don't label people heroes because it's "necessary".

We label people heroes because that's how we feel.

Do you know who I think is a hero?

Pee Wee Herman.

Why?

Because he's a freakish weirdo. But not just that - he's a freakish weirdo who clearly realised at an early age that he's nothing like anyone else on the planet and is a ridiculous creature. But instead of coiling up inside himself like flinching wimp and trying to run away from himself and his ridiculousness he opened himself out and built a career out of essentially saying "Oh, my god. Look at ME everyone... I'm just fucking RIDICULOUS!!!", or variants thereof and made a huge, beautiful public comedy of himself, reassuring everyone that all the silliness of being human is in fact a good thing and nothing to coil up around.

I say HEROIC.

But that's just me. There's no reason for you to find it heroic. What you find inspiring will depend on YOUR emotional makeup.

I think Charles Ramsay is heroic. Not because it's necessary for me to do so, I just do. It's because he's honest and humble and appears to have accepted himself and he *helped* someone. These, to me, are heroic things. If you choose other personal attributes to call heroic, so be it and more power to you. Your heart is yours to follow.

[randome]

34. I agree with you. And about Peewee Herman, too, who I would not have thought about.

But there is a danger in letting emotions rush to the fore. I think tempering our reactions is always called for so we can be as accurate as possible. We don't always get it right, of course, but we should make an effort to do so.

'This guy did a great thing' is, IMO, the right reaction.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[LanternWaste]

19. Because we cannot tolerate greatness in our midst we do all we can to destroy it...

"Greatness is never appreciated in youth, called pride in middle age, dismissed in old age, and reconsidered in death. Because we cannot tolerate greatness in our midst we do all we can to destroy it..."
JMS

[eShirl]

30. He IS a hero; the tendency to place heroes up on pedestals above the rest of us is what's disturbing

[KittyWampus]

44. I like your post very much. Perhaps heros are just everyday people who do something extraordinary>

thus, they inevitable have flaws.

A very major theme in literature.

[MADem]

27. I generally try to see good in people, but I have to agree with you...

My mind keeps returning to the belief that the media is using the Santorum-like reasoning that he is ....blaaaaaahhhh.....blaaaaaaahhhh....blaaaaahhhh....

er....a criminal! Domestic violence! Over a decade ago...!!!! But not because he is ....blaaaaaaahhhh....

If anyone is curious as to where I'm going with this, this article is a helpful reference:

http://crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/santorum-i-didnt-say-black-people-i-sa

[sibelian]

46. There's no getting away from it.

I'm not normally one to call racism, mostly because I can't trust myself to distinguish it well, but the more I think about it the more obvious it is that this whole annex to the story comes out of him making comments about the racial aspect.

[MADem]

47. Yep--dead giveaway, indeed. Did you see this?

I hope good things come to this guy.

[sibelian]

48. Me too. :)

[dballance]

3. Thank You. I Don't See How His Deeds From Over a Decade Ago Are Relevant Now

I'd really like to smack all the so-called journalists who dug up his rap sheet along with their editors who printed the stories. So the man made mistakes over a decade ago. How is that at all relevant to the current situation? Answer: it's not.

Though what was printed about him is undoubtedly true it's not relevant to what he did to save those women and that child. Unless you want to talk about how he's turned his life around since his past deeds. But that's not the angle any media outlet I've seen has taken. No, they just used his past to fill space and get ratings and web traffic. Some didn't even appear to attempt to get a quote from Ramsey.

This is a real shame. That the way to get ratings and web traffic is to besmirch people who have done something good by bringing up their distant past.

[MADem]

4. He is a hero--a hero with a flashlight, who shines a light on stuff we might

not want to look at.

That nice person down the street really could be an ax murderer. Casual acquaintances are NOT the same as real friends. People can make mistakes and do terrible things in their early life, and they are capable of change, regret, and insight.

I think the guy is an open book, these days. He seems to be at peace with himself.

I know there are at least four people who think he's a hero, and anyone who says otherwise will get plenty of attitude from them.

[randome]

8. No one at DU knows what he's like inside. None of us.

[hr]
[font color="blue"]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/font]

[sibelian]

12. No. We know what he DID.

And THAT is the more important matter.

[Orrex]

15. We know that he has McDonalds inside

And we also know that there's a curiously persistent effort to diminish his role in this.

On other forums I have seen this take a decidedly ugly and racist tone, while here on DU it mostly goes the route of "hero is an overused word."

[MADem]

25. I think we know he is the type of guy who hears someone screaming in distress, and his first thought

is to go and help.

[HappyMe]

10. Well said.

[riqster]

6. Oh nonononono, people can't be complex

They must be simplistic caricatures in order to fit our Infotainment industry, and to easily be judged on Internet comment threads.

Yes,

[lunasun]

11. +1

[The Magistrate]

9. He Did The Right Thing Here, Sir, And That is What Counts Now

It does not bother me that he had previously committed crimes.

[Aerows]

21. And the fact that he rejects monetary rewards

and is self-deprecating indicates that he is afraid of being praised too much, and doesn't want his past to swallow him up again.

We all have things we wish we hadn't have done, this man, obviously has plenty.

That he is humble enough to realize that makes him a better person than most.

[Downtown Hound]

16. He's a poor black man who's probably had to live with stress for many years

Sometimes, people snap and lose it. That's not an excuse, but we're all human and we all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. Mr. Ramsey hasn't been in any trouble for many years and still saved those girls, so if people aren't able to forgive him even after all this, then there really isn't much hope for the human race.

[datasuspect]

26. not to mention that domestic, resisting, obstruction, disorderly

are often used willy nilly by the police even when no crime is committed.

this is EXCEPTIONALLY true for african american males who cannot afford competent representation.

seen it happen: verbal shouting matches will turn into domestic - someone goes to jail regardless if anyone is actually physically harmed.

getting uppity with pigs turns into assault against PO.

so much bullshit.

[tblue]

28. I am gonna embrace him.

That (what you said) was my first thought. This could be a new lease on a life with a troubled past. Maybe he never felt he had any value before. Maybe he's a new man now. I am all for redemption. Heaven knows Most of us could use some.

[Aerows]

33. Absolutely

We all need redemption.

[Aerows]

18. It makes sense

why he is reluctant to accept monetary awards.

He's been cleaning up his act, and he's afraid if he gets too much praise and money, he'll go back down the road that caused him trouble.

My .02

[cbdo2007]

20. I think it makes him MORE of a hero. It shows us that even people

who have done bad things in their lives have good in them as well. Isn't this what we want from all criminals is for them to turn their lives around and do something great?? Or would we rather scorn them for their mistakes their whole lives until they kill themselves?

I applaud Charles Ramsey and support him 110% though this. He is a great American!

[tblue]

29. Redemption is a good thing!

Let's reward it not denigrate it.

[Raven]

22. Probably a good thing Ramsey didn't know that the

national press would dredge up everything about his past. If he had known, maybe he would have thought twice about getting involved. The man did a good thing, period.

[Aerows]

23. Amen

A man saves three women from rape and brutalization and gets savaged in the press for his efforts.

[HappyMe]

24. Exactly.

It also puts others on notice -- if you have a checkered past don't help anyone. Because every sad or sordid detail will be held up and you will be judged and crapped on by the 'holier than thou' crowd.

[AgingAmerican]

45. Sadly, this was my first thought when I read the OP

Only in America are heros and victims savaged and torn apart in the press.

[matt819]

31. Can we stop with the hero worship?

Yes, Mr. Ramsey and the other guy, whose name I can't recall at the moment, were not heroes.

They were ordinary people who did a good thing at a critical moment. That's good. We even have a name for such people. Good Samaritans. (And please don't parse the biblical meaning of samaritan.) True, this is more than some might have done at the same time, but it still doesn't make them heroes. Mr. Ramsey has it right.

Let's try this variation (without assault rifles and swat teams). Let's say someone suspected something was wrong in that house. Doesn't matter who did the suspecting or what it was that caused the suspicion, just that something was "off." This person calls the police, who visit and say everything's fine. And let's go further and say this scenario is repeated several times. Still no joy from the police. Still the nagging suspicion. Then this curious citizen decides to take things into his own hands and enters the house, not knowing what he'll find, and risking criminal prosecution if he's wrong (or even if he's right), and finds the three women and girl and frees them. In my book, that warrants the hero designation.

Can we let this discussion drop?

[Aerows]

32. Ramsey kicked the door in without knowing

whether or not there was someone else in the house.

You are obviously unable to label anyone a hero unless they are one of the Armageddon movie variety.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. +1. When dealing with psychos inprisoning women, you never know if they have a gun and will use it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. America is the great land of second chances (and thirds and fourths ...).

[Exultant Democracy]

37. How do we define hero? Heracles also had a history of domestic abuse and he is the template for hero

In fact from a storytelling perspective having a troublesome past to overcome is pretty much a basic requirement for a good hero.

[Orrex]

39. I'm still mad about what he did to poor Linus.

[riverwalker]

38. still a hero

both Ramsey and Angel Cordero are heros. The first touch of human kindness in 10 years.

[hamsterjill]

40. He is a hero for saving Amanda, but the past isn't easy to forget.

People are complex. If, as the article indicates, he has genuinely turned his life around, then I applaud him for that courage, as well.

A lot would depend (for me) on what he's done to turn his life around, and how he behaves towards his ex-wife and daughter now. Does he leave them alone? Does he support the daughter (if she's still a minor)? Did he ever apologize to them?

Mr. Ramsey has obviously served his time for his previous infractions, so I have no problem in calling him a hero for his actions to save Amanda Berry. But I wouldn't have a problem with the ex-wife and daughter calling him an asshole, either.

[fishwax]

41. the map is not the territory

Some years ago, he did a bad thing, multiple times, and rightly was sanctioned for it. A few days ago, he did a good thing and is rightly being praised for it. We map the actions in the former as abusive. We map the actions in the latter case as heroic.

But the map is not the territory, and for me the is of identity tends only to muddy the waters in situations like this. The question "Is he a hero?" is a bit ridiculous to me. I'm content to admire what he did without having to make abstractions on who/what he is.

He did a great thing. He acted bravely in order to help another person out. Many people's lives--the three women, the child, and their families--are better today because he acted bravely and well. That's good enough for me.

[Mutiny In Heaven]

42. Indeed. Here's what Rochelle, his ex-wife said:

Ok so for the record ppl do change and you shouldn’t hold the past against someone,” she wrote Wednesday. “The (main) thing is Charles Ramsey did a good deed and those girls are safe is that not the most important thing?”


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/cleveland-hero-charles-ramsey-criminal-report-article-1.1339043#ixzz2Sok7WCMt

[Turborama]

43. K&R & Bookmarking

This is one of the most rational discussions I've read on DU for a while. Beats all the flame fests we've seen of late.

Thanks for posting.