The Daily Show 3 part series on Australia's gun control.

[DanTex]

Edit: found youtube links, posted all 3 parts.

[RevStPatrick]

1. A friend had me watch that the other day...

My reaction was that John Oliver is as intelligent and hard-hitting a journalist/interviewer as Mike Wallace was back in his heyday!

I think it's great that Oliver will be replacing Jon Stewart during Jon's hiatus this summer.
He's earned it!

[rdharma]

2. I watched all three! Great stuff!

John Oliver is hilarious!

[LAGC]

3. The biggest difference between here and Down Under...

...is that in Australia many conservatives were on-board with gun control, as that vid pointed out.

But here, where things are so polarized, it's like pulling teeth, especially when a liberal president tries to lead the charge.

If Romney were president, I have no doubt universal background checks would have easily passed the Senate at least.

But since its Obama, the word of the day is: OBSTRUCT, OBSTRUCT, OBSTRUCT.

You know how it is.

[aikoaiko]

4. With the Daily Show on your side how is it possible you failed so badly.

[billh58]

13. Maybe because

your beloved right-wing NRA spent millions of dollars to spread misinformation, and the fear that we mean old Democrats are coming to take your guns?

Also, the perception that we "failed so badly," is just another NRA-inspired talking point. The fact is that a majority of Americans are becoming more and more aware of the need for sensible gun control in this country.

But yeah, you're right. The Daily Show is just another left-wing, Liberal propaganda machine with absolutely no credibility...

[Pisces]

49. +1 million!!!

[justanidea]

5. They're jumping to some not-so-accurate conclusions regarding the Aus gun law.

Yes the crime rate did eventually decline but there was a slight uptick (probably just a statistical anomaly) in the years immediately following the law.

In regards to "No mass shooting since the law was passed in 1996", well New Zealand also had a mass shooting in 96. They also haven't had one since. However they did not pass any restrictions on semi-auto firearms. Hell in New Zealand you can buy fully automatic machine guns if you have a collector's license.

Furthermore studies done in Australia on the gun buyback have largely been inconclusive in establishing whether it had any effect on the crime rate. A few studies have determined that the trend started before the law was passed and the current laws are just the continuation of that trend. Other studies habe argued there is some evidence that a causation relationship is present.

However until the research community comes to some sort of agreement on whether or not the law CAUSED the continued decrease in the crime rate, it is a bit dishonest to say it has.

I could very easily do the same thing with U.S. gun laws. The Assault Weapons ban expired in 2004 and then crime rate continued to decline every years thereafter. Therefore getting rid of the AWB clearly lowered crime rates.

Or I could point out that starting in the late 90s, the concealed carry movement picked up steam, drastically altering gun law and causing the lower crime rates.

However correlation =/= causation.

Same goes for the land of the kangaroo.

[marions ghost]

9. Go to Australia

It's wonderful to walk around those big Australian cities and have no fear in public places. Go to New Zealand. Go to countries where the government is responsive to the people.

Experience the difference.

[hack89]

15. Their rate of violent crime other than murder is much higher than America

so actually, there is good reason to take care in public spaces.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/341-360/tandi359/view%20paper.html

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

[marions ghost]

16. So they assault but they don't kill

...and your point is....

You can walk around in the streets of large Australian cities and not fear for your life. It's different. It's better.

[billh58]

17. But the Aussies are taking all of the

fun out of being able to kill someone who looks "threatening," and is carrying a bag of deadly Skittles.

[hack89]

18. Assault is pretty traumatizing - why would you minimize it?

the point is simple - Australia has higher violent crime rates than America so you can't say their streets are safer than ours.

A significantly higher risk of being assaulted with the risk of serious injury is an odd form of "better"

[marions ghost]

19. Well I'd rather be assaulted than killed...

--looks like the Aussie bar flies and wife beaters really know how to pull their punches...!?!

--is what I take from that set of stats. Maybe they could show us a thing or two about how they stop themselves before killing someone? And maybe they could tell us how to cure the epidemic of child-killing in America? We don't seem to be making a dent in that.

The streets, schools, shopping areas, sports events of Australia are MUCH safer than in America.

OH yeah. It's better.

[hack89]

20. So Australia is a county of violent drunks and wife beaters?

what is your excuse for their rate of sexual assault (much higher than ours).

[marions ghost]

26. No more so than America

but in America the drunks and wife beaters all have guns...

You seem to be saying that the presence of guns PREVENTS assaults. Or something. I don't think there's any evidence of that. Certainly guns are not preventing sexual assaults in America.

I don't make excuses. You're the apologist here. I know, I know. Guns cure everything.

[hack89]

27. It has nothing to do with guns

I am responding to a post that implied that Australians can walk the streets of their cities without the fear of violent crime. The opposite is in fact true - the odds of being the victim of a violent crime in Australia is actually higher. It is a violent society albeit without guns.

You minimize that fact by mentioning "barflies and wife beaters."


btw - guns do not minimize crime. In America rates of gun ownership and the overall violent crime rate do not appear to be linked. Larger societal issues like drugs, poverty, education and unemployment have a greater impact on violent crime in America.

[marions ghost]

29. Like I said--bar flies and wife-beaters:

Australia, like America has alcohol and domestic violence problems. But it seems that people don't lose their lives in Australia. I have 6 close relatives who are permanent residents in Australia (Sydney and Melbourne). They don't want to live here, that's for sure. One of them got held up at gunpoint in Florida--gun to her head. Back to Australia in a hurry.

----------
"In 2011, the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research (BOCSAR) reported that Darlinghurst Road in Kings Cross, Oxford Street in Darlinghurst, King Street in Newtown, Glebe Point Road in Glebe, and George Street in the CBD were hotspots for city violence. Typically, alcohol fueled this violence. The BOCSAR report found that 56.8 percent of assaults in the city centre were within 50m of a liquor outlet.

Sydney’s murder rate has halved in the past decade, falling to its lowest level in recent history. Homicide cases have dropped from 88 in 2001 to 43 in 2011, reflecting a statewide trend in which murders fell from 119 to 77. The rate of one homicide per 100,000 people is the lowest in many years, according to BOSCAR. The percentage of murders committed with a firearm has declined across Australia since 1999 to approximately 15 percent currently. This is often attributed to stricter gun laws passed after the Port Arthur Massacre of 1996, yet gun violence has not declined accordingly. Improvements in policing are thought to have contributed to Sydney's falling murder rate, including crackdowns on Middle Eastern crime, gang violence, and domestic violence. Familial homicide, or murder committed by a spouse or relative, accounts for about 40 percent of murders in NSW.


Alcohol remains a big factor in street offenses including assaults outside licensed premises. New South Police have ongoing street patrols and operations to combat anti-social behavior."
https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=12250

[hack89]

30. America does have one thing in common with Sydney

we halved our murder rate too and it is also at historically low levels.

[marions ghost]

31. What you don't say

Gun crimes are down overall...

But gun crimes are up in 50% of US states.

You have to look at it state by state. States that lose population--naturally gun deaths go down.

I think you know this.

[hack89]

32. Are those numbers from the FBI?

do you have a link?

And don't forget that I was referring to a 20 year period. There were over 16,000 firearm murders in 1992 and 8700 in 2011. That cannot be attributed to shifting populations.

[marions ghost]

33. Percent change 2010-11

Here is the chart that shows the incidence of gun crime rising significantly in 25 US states (and that's not counting FL and AL which they don't have stats for--but I think we know how they would be trending:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

BTW I'm not into arguing about sources for stats.

[hack89]

35. Look carefully at those numbers

Vermont had a 100% increase - all the way up to 4 deaths. ND had a 50% increase - to 6. Wyoming a 120% increase - to 11. Idaho had a 42% increase - to 17.

We are not talking massive crime waves here.

You are dealing with such small numbers that it does not take much to produce a large percentage increase.

For your information, Florida saw a slight decrease.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/FSAC/Menu/Crime-Trends/Violent-Crime.aspx

Alabama saw a increase.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/alcrime.htm

[marions ghost]

38. What about the bigger numbers? Guess you overlooked...

Rate of increase of gun crimes 2010-11:

IN 183 29%
LA 402 15%
NC 335 17%
OH 344 11%
IN 183 29%
SC 223 8%
IL 377 4%

also AK and AL are up

Not too comforting for the people in those states... what's a couple thou more people, right?

[hack89]

39. Yet overal gun deaths are down

as they continue their steady decline. I am sure that there is constant fluctuation year to year. That is why it is best to look at multiple years to see trends.

Now if you can show me any state with more gun deaths now than 10 years ago then maybe you are on to something.

[marions ghost]

41. Apparently the steady decline has ended & there's an uptick

So we'll see what that means in a few years. But where we are is shameful enough:

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/

-----------2010

In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.

73,505 Americans were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2010.

Firearms were the third-leading cause of injury-related deaths nationwide in 2010, following poisoning and motor vehicle accidents.

Between 1955 and 1975, the Vietnam War killed over 58,000 American soldiers – less than the number of civilians killed with guns in the U.S. in an average two-year period.

In the first seven years of the U.S.-Iraq War, over 4,400 American soldiers were killed. Almost as many civilians are killed with guns in the U.S., however, every seven weeks.

[hack89]

43. Your link showed a 3% decline in the nationwide rate.

so perhaps not.

66% of gun deaths are suicides. Mental health reform with an aggressive national suicide prevent program will save thousands of lives and is probably more achievable then the radical controls on handguns needed to reduce gun deaths.

[marions ghost]

44. Where we are

is shameful enough.

We need radical controls and mental health help. Don't worry your guns are safe.

[hack89]

46. What are "radical" controls?

just curious.

[marions ghost]

47. Anything you would reject

probably.

There can never be common ground with your view and mine. Hopeless to try. It's just endless sparring. No change possible.

Your guns are safe. Just keep telling yourself that (over and over) and you will have no cause to go targeting people who are concerned about the NRA's stranglehold on this country. You and your guns are safe. What more do you care?

My mind is made up. Yours is made up. No point in discussion.

[hack89]

48. I suspect we agree on gun control more than you would think.

the only things I reject are total bans and registration.

After all, I live in state with very strict gun control laws. For example we have universal background checks. These laws have not hindered my enjoyment of guns yet I appreciate our low levels of gun violence.

All states should be like Rhode Island.

[DanTex]

22. And yet their murder rate is much lower than ours. Why? Guns.

[hack89]

24. It was significantly lower and steadily declining before they banned guns.

And subsequent research in Australia has raised questions about whether the new gun laws made a significant difference - one common consensus was that there was a long a steady decline in violent crime before 1996 due to changes in Australian society.

In 2005 the head of the New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn,[35] noted that the level of legal gun ownership in New South Wales increased in recent years, and that the 1996 legislation had had little to no effect on violence. Professor Simon Chapman, former co-convenor of the Coalition for Gun Control, complained that his words "will henceforth be cited by every gun-lusting lobby group throughout the world in their perverse efforts to stall reforms that could save thousands of lives".[36] Weatherburn responded, "The fact is that the introduction of those laws did not result in any acceleration of the downward trend in gun homicide. They may have reduced the risk of mass shootings but we cannot be sure because no one has done the rigorous statistical work required to verify this possibility. It is always unpleasant to acknowledge facts that are inconsistent with your own point of view. But I thought that was what distinguished science from popular prejudice

In 2006, the lack of a measurable effect from the 1996 firearms legislation was reported in the British Journal of Criminology. Using ARIMA analysis, Dr Jeanine Baker (a former state president of the SSAA(SA)) and Dr Samara McPhedran (Women in Shooting and Hunting) found no evidence for an impact of the laws on homicide.

A 2010 study on the effects of the firearm buybacks by Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi of Melbourne University's Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research studied the data and concluded, "Despite the fact that several researchers using the same data have examined the impact of the NFA on firearm deaths, a consensus does not appear to have been reached. In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Measuring_the_effects_of_firearms_laws_in_Australia

[DanTex]

25. And they had tighter gun laws and less gun ownership than the US before the buyback.

[hack89]

28. True

but we will never get to those levels of gun ownership and control in America so somewhat irrelevant.

[Uzair]

34. "other than murder"

Other than murder. Jesus Christ. Do you gun nuts even think before you speak? Are you trying to make a point of some kind?

[hack89]

36. Yes - that Australia has a violent society

with high rates of assault and sexual assault. Higher than America.

It is not always about guns.

[otohara]

42. I Know That Feeling - Japan

walking around Kyoto two years ago.
Millions of people without guns....ahhhhh...heaven.

Now I wonder who's packing heat when standing in line at the store, post office, etc.

[Electric Monk]

6. kick

[galileoreloaded]

7. Australia SHOULD be gun free. the institutionalized racism there is deplorable.

i dont trust em.

[marions ghost]

8. You mean there's racism

like in the US?

And ur point is...?

[galileoreloaded]

10. lol. no not like the us. well, maybe the us in the 50's

you should go. what a treat.

[marions ghost]

11. Have been

--see no difference between the racism in Australia and the racism in many parts of Murka.

Maybe you are blind to it here?

[galileoreloaded]

12. well, i've lived in AZ, Charleston SC and AU.

AU reminds me of 1950's

[marions ghost]

14. And how are we better

than in the 1950's.

Look at the last election. Old timers said, "We've seen voter suppression like this before....in the 50's." And a lot of votes for Obama were a response to overt and subterranean racism.

America is just as bad. The Aussies you experienced may be more outspoken is all. Racist Americans are more clever at turning it into political action.

[galileoreloaded]

21. depends on region but i dont disagree

there it is overt. big distinction.

[marions ghost]

23. I don't see a big distinction

personally I'd rather know where people are coming from. Easier to avoid.

Americans are more sneaky about their racism and speak in code--everywhere in the country.

One isn't better in any sense IMO.

[maxsolomon]

37. The usual suspects are out to argue the same point as the bonehead in the videos

"America is different, America is special, Australia's policy didn't stop all crime, so 2nd Amendment FTW".

[Shankapotomus]

40. "That's my point."

[SalviaBlue]

45. k&r