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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust wondering about the 2016 election
I know this site has always been heavily in favor of installing Democrats in public office, but is everyone here really going to push for that 'lesser of two evils' yet again after Obama gets done ripping us all off for another three and a half years?
Or might we possibly bring up third party alternatives this time? Because people seem pretty upset with their favorite guy. And frankly it's about time and past time.
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MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I am focused on 2014.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)But you might have a point about 2014. Although Obama makes a much more convenient focal point for dissatisfaction. Pretty sure it's in his job description.
PennsylvaniaMatt
(966 posts)We have quite a few Democratic senate seats to defend, as well as trying to gain ground in the House (which I think is VERY plausible).
As far as "pushing for the lesser" of the two parties, I will still do that over voting third party any day. The way the current political make up is in this country, Democrats voting third party = Republican majority in the Senate and holding onto the House. Same applies to us if the GOP votes third party.
As much as I appreciated people taking part in the political process in 2012 by at least going out and voting, if you voted for anybody other than President Obama or Romney, you were throwing your vote away. I knew 3 or 4 people that voted for Gary Johnson without knowing a damn thing about the man. It enraged me!
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)-snip-
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tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)
hay rick
(7,611 posts)FYI. For many of us, the third party is currently occupying the White House.
still_one
(92,189 posts)the repukes, we cannot afford to split the party with a third party that WILL lose
What can be done is progressives can challenge incumbents that are right wing.
However, with the supreme court and other things at stake, THERE REALLY IS A DIFFERENCE between the Democrats and republicans
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)You bring in a third party, you divide the party and the Repukes have the advantage. Stay strong is to stand together.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Some fun discussions but when 2016 rolls around I'll have to go elsewhere. I just can't advocate putting in another Obama and then complaining for four years and then putting him in for a second term. I just can't stomach it. Unless we get a real candidate this time with a real proven record that doesn't sicken me.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)He's not a KING!
Sorry, the excuses don't fly anymore.
Corporate and bank-cozy appointments, over and over again, including major appointments like:
A serial defender of corrupt bankers for the SEC; the architect of "Kill Lists" and supporter of torture, drone wars, and telecom immunity for the CIA; and a Monsanto VP who has lied and been involved in extremely disturbing claims regarding food safety for the FDA. An Attorney General who has not prosecuted a single large bank but wages war against medical marijuana users and *for* strip searches and warrantless surveillance of Americans. And let's not forget Tim Geithner.Bailouts and settlements for corrupt banks (with personal pressure from Obama to attorneys general to approve them),
Refusal by Obama's DOJ to prosecute even huge, egregious examples of bank fraud (i.e, HSBC)
signing NDAA to allow indefinite detention,
"Kill lists" and claiming of the right to assassinate even American citizens without trial
Expansion of wars into several new countries
A renewed public advocacy for the concept of preemptive war
Drone campaigns in multiple countries with whom we are not at war
Proliferation of military drones in our skies
Federal targeting of Occupy for surveillance and militarized response to peaceful protesters
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for warrantless surveillance
Fighting all the way to the Supreme Court for strip searches for any arrestee
Supporting and signing Internet-censoring and privacy-violating measures like ACTA
Support for corporate groping and naked scanning of Americans seeking to travel
A new, massive spy center for warrantless access to Americans' phone calls, emails, and internet use
Support of legislation to legalize massive surveillance of Americans
Militarized police departments, through federal grants
Marijuana users and medical marijuana clinics under assault,
Skyrocketing of the budget for prisons.
Failing to veto a bipartisan vote in Congress to gut more financial regulations.
Passionate speeches and press conferences promoting austerity for Americans
Bush tax cuts extended for billionaires, them much of it made permanent
Support for the payroll tax holiday, tying SS to the general fund
Support for the vicious chained CPI cut in Social Security and benefits for the disabled
Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid offered up as bargaining chips in budget negotiations, with No mention of cutting corporate welfare or the military budget
Advocacy of multiple new free trade agreements, including The Trans-Pacific, otherwise known as "NAFTA on steroids."
Support of drilling, pipelines, and selling off portions of the Gulf of Mexico
Corporate education policy including high stakes corporate testing and closures of public schools
Entrenchment of exorbitant for-profit health insurance companies into healthcare, through mandate
Legal assault on union rights of hundreds of thousands of federal workers
New policies of targeting children and first responders in drone campaigns,
New policies of awarding medals for remote drone attacks,
Appointment of private prison executives to head the US Marshal's office
Massive escalation of federal contracts for private prisons under US Marshall's office
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Dennis Kucinich. He does have a proven record I can live with. Maybe he'll run again. This time let's have the balls to vote for him instead of for the 'safe moderate guy'.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)I'm not up on that one, I'll have to go check it out.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Maybe he thinks he can bring Fox some 'balance' but only if he's never had time to watch how they operate before. If he had he would know to not even try.
Or maybe he just sold out. Or maybe his voting record doesn't really show his true politics at all. Maybe I was wrong about him all these years when I said well at least there is one Democrat that doesn't act Republican.
Regardless I'm very disappointed and I certainly won't be tuning in to Fox News to watch that train wreck.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Interesting.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)
Oh dear Christ it is true! I think some of the light just went out of my world.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I'm consistently disappointed at how many people fall for posturing...
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Of all the candidates in 2008 he had the best record on the issues that mattered most to me. Record, not rhetoric. I went over it pretty carefully.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I don't call introducing bills with 0 chance of passing a record, personally.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Like introducing bills the vast majority of the people who voted them in office don't want passed.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Grandstanding when you know you won't have to deal with the consequences isn't leadership.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)... when he actually had to govern the US as it exists.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Then what will you say about him?
You're not even thinking about 2014. Pretending POTUS can do it all and Congress doesn't matter is just insane.
Bake
(21,977 posts)People perceive him as just too wimpy.
Bake
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)people's pov, than some of our Third Way 'democrats'. We already have a third party, but it has attached itself to OUR party.
2014 is a good opportunity to cut the cords from members of that third party and send them on their way. They have a party, it's called the Republican Party.
The Big Tent was meant to be so big we started taking in branches of the other party.
NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)You might not have to wait that long.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)It's not a presidential election year, what's the big deal?
NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)back to whatever baseboard you came out of.
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)Nobody's stopping you.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)At this point I don't know. I was just wondering if everyone was fed up enough yet with the Democrats rolling over and playing dead on major issues. People seem pretty disappointed. I mean they gave the guy a second chance and everything and he's still a miserable wimpy failure on most everything that matters.
We'll see what gets fielded in 2016 I guess.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)If you don't support the Democratic candidate for President you will, hopefully, be asked to take it elsewhere.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)I can tell you right now much as I want to see a woman President I won't support Hillary. She's a Republican to the core, I don't care what her official party membership card says.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)But now he really is working for Fox News.
So I'm at a loss. You're right, at this moment there is not a single Democrat I'd vote for. But I'm obviously not caught up yet on the latest in politics or I would have known that Kucinich has lost his marbles too. So maybe there is a Democrat I'd vote for that I don't know about yet, but it sure won't be Hillary.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Tries again, spelling it third party underground this time.
Comes back and glares angrily at you.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)
JVS
(61,935 posts)You'll be sorry 
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Oh Lawd, save us from ourselves!
treestar
(82,383 posts)2014. 2014. 2014.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)I can hate on any democrat as much as I want, but when it comes to elections I have to vote for them or at least not say I didn't?
Head...desk...you get the idea.
If you guys don't want another Nader pooping on your party PLEASE find us candidates that aren't Repuke clones in blue.
Thank you! 
Recursion
(56,582 posts)
Avalux
(35,015 posts)You know nothing about DU and I am sick of these bullshit posts bashing Obama. Take it somewhere else.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)You know as in maybe it would be about people choosing their officials freely instead of being about one party?
But that's fine. What I said in another post is what I will stand by. If you Democrats don't want another Nader pooping on you in 2016 (since you all seem to think that is why you lost in 2000) then kindly stop fielding Republicans in blue with donkeys pinned to their lapels.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)And who plainly doesn't like us enough to BE one of us. But good news! I hear Nader has his own site somewhere! Just Google him.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I know transparency is the new thing for DU3, but.....
greatauntoftriplets
(175,734 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)I have to be one of you to criticize your guy, huh? And if I'm not you can't just disagree with me and discuss it, you have to make personal attacks and get all pissed off and start swearing. But okay, I can be the bigger person here.
I stand by what I said. You guys want more support for Democratic candidates, right? More and not less?
Stop backing moderate Republicans in blue then.
Stop being afraid to back someone who is really different on major issues like human rights, civil rights, and resource wars. Or you're going to lose in 2016. And I guarantee there is no one here whose hatred matches my hatred for the eight years we suffered under Bush. In a just world the entire administration would have been tried and imprisoned for a huge list of crimes. My anger comes from the fact that in a just world Obama's administration would also be tried and imprisoned for many of the same crimes. I just want real change this time.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)before you started posting?
Your comments in this thread read as if you saw the name, signed up, and just started posting. Read for a while to get a better sense of this place.
You will read a certain amount of very pointed criticism of Obama even from long-time members. You'll likewise read a lot of support for him.
Most of us here consider ourselves committed Democrats, members of the Democratic Party. But we don't speak with one voice.
And while there are in my considered opinion far too many threads worrying about 2016, we all need to be focussed on 2014 first.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)So I apologize. We'll see what gets fielded by Democrats in 2014 and 2016. No I'm not one of you. But I'd like to be. It's a hell of a lot easier getting a Dem in than getting a third party candidate in, I know that.
Only I have to believe that your candidates are a real alternative first. Your party didn't make that happen for us in the past. Could that change in the future? Sure. And I hope it does.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)so you can immediately reply to every post, go off and read this site.
Read a bunch of the different forums. Take a couple of days off from posting. Become active in your local Democratic Party. Run for office yourself. I have. It's pretty amazing. Work for Democratic candidates. I have. It's very encouraging.
But to come here, join up, and a week later you're suggesting a third party candidacy, doesn't give me a sense that you understand this place at all.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)I type and read quite fast.
As for taking some days off from learning about the DU culture to go work for a political campaign or run for office, first of all I live in a rightwing nut state. Second, I'm not a face to face people person that should go out and shake hands and smile and pass out fliers, much less run for public office.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)but there's a lot of volunteer work to be done for actual candidates that don't involve meeting the public directly. You're coming across as someone with a lot of excuses for your personal inaction while you still claim the right to criticize everyone else.
Lots of the posters here live in right wing nut states. I did for quite a while until I moved five years ago to where I am now.
And you may well read and type fast, but you still don't come across as someone who actually understands this place.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)I'm happily agreeing with a lot of you on a lot of different issues. I'm learning new things, catching up on politics (still not over Kucinich working for Fox now though) and learning DU.
In fact I learned something last night while digging up a link to post that really helped my mindset over something that happened to me a few years ago. Two things actually that weren't on the surface even related. Pure, sweet coincidence, but a good reason to keep digging, reading, and yes, posting.
You have me contemplating doing some research to see if there is a local politician who needs volunteers and is someone I support though. So even though you are clearly unhappy with me, my horizons may benefit from your posts, too.
treestar
(82,383 posts)great post.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Like it or not, we are forever saddled with the two parties.
So I dont get why some people expect major changes.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Are you saying the Democrats can't field a candidate that is different in major ways from the Republicans? If not, why vote, why care?
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)he is still the "lesser of two evils"? It is disgusting how people on a supposedly-Democratic website dismiss all of his accomplishments, like the auto bailout, health care reform, working on alternative energy, extending the Bush tax cuts for low-income Americans, repealing DADT and being the 1st president to endorse gay marriage, signing the Fair Pay Act, and NOT cutting the Big 3 (like so many on DU have claimed he would do again and again). And the unemployment and deficit have both lowered under his presidency thus far. He would've gotten even more done, had it not been for these domestic terrorists from the GOP that we have in Congress.
Some here love to act as if a "true progressive" like Warren or Sanders would be in better shape right now as president, but the Republicans would just block them, too. There's not much a president can do without the aid of Congress.
As far as voting 3rd party goes, that is not the answer. In a 2-party system, all that would do is split the vote from what would've gone to the major party that most closely resembles their ideology. It is a waste of time without some instant run-off.
BethanyQuartz
(193 posts)Since apparently I shouldn't have created it on this site. So that means I better stop posting in it.
I'll make this my last one: I do not disagree with everything Obama has done. I am even happy with some of it. But on the issues that are MOST important to me, he is a sad failure. I also am aware that we have Republicans as well as Democrats in office and that the President is not as powerful as many think. However most of the Democrats in office have also been rolling over in ridiculous fashion or outright acting against the interests of those who voted for them and this is nothing new.
I hope 2014 is a better year for people concerned with the same issues I'm concerned with and that 2016 even better yet. Judging by the posts I'm reading here, a lot of people on this forum are concerned with those issues, too and I'm happy about that even if I remain skeptical about Democrats in office as the solution to those issues.
