He didn't just put some fertilizer in a crock pot, he filled a big warehouse with it.

[kpete]

TERRORISM?




See the sweet looking, smiling man? Well, he is a terrorist. With his wealth he was able to create a much better bomb than those youngin's did, because he didn't put some fertilizer in a crock pot, he filled a big warehouse with it.

BEFORE AND AFTER

http://q13fox.com/2013/04/20/town-tries-to-move-on-after-explosion-that-killed-14-injured-160/#axzz2RCiQh15R

MORE:
http://www.rhlawgroup.com/blog/west-fertilizer-plant-explosion-response/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-fertilizer-plant-massive-amounts-unreported-ammonium-nitrate-article-1.1322766
http://hinterlandgazette.com/tag/west-fertilizer-co-owner-donald-adair

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Words have meanings

[oldhippie]

5. Not to many DUers .......

Words mean whatever they want them to mean.

[Occulus]

38. The thing WAS a bomb. Waiting to explode.

A great big fertilizer bomb. A bomb that could have been avoided, a bomb created by intentional negligence and neglect.

Words do have meanings. As a journalist, you ought to know they can be used in non-literal ways. When we say 'bomb' in this language, we do not necessarily mean a thing someone built with a timer and a detonator, intended to kill. We can mean a situation like this one, where all the elements for an ordinary thing- in this case, a fertilizer warehouse- are together in one place to make a bomb simply by proximity and disrepair. It wasn't intended, but that's what it was.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Derp

In spades

Derp.

Negligence yes, industrial accident yup...terrorism...not so much

Derp

[Occulus]

41. I speak the language natively, Nadine. Words can have *many* meanings.

You owe me an apology for that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Terrorismo comes from the exact same root

As terrorism...etymology is funny that way.

Inane comparison

[Occulus]

44. I didn't say it was terrorism. I said it was a bomb.

I didn't call it terrorism because words have meaning.

To quote you, "derp".

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Care to talk to the OP?

Have a good day.

(Yes, we are talking of a bomb in the context given by the OP...regardless, while it acts like a bomb, it is not considered one...you know the origin of the explosion? Water plus oxidizing agent)

[Occulus]

47. Wow.

Just wow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. You are correct, wow

It is a tragic industrial accident, coming from lack of regulation (and poor training, since this was a hazmat response).

If anything it points to the need for a regulatory environment, the funding of the agencies tasked to carry it out (federal OSHA in this case). And the training and supply of FD personnel with proper gear and training.

(And plenty of civil court lawsuits for wrongful death, I am betting company will file chapter 11 to avoid such).

Again, you want to use bomb like, sure, but it was not terrorism, or bomb.

And yes, words have specific meanings.

For the record, I would love to see not just the legislation needed, but the enforcement. Not counting on it.

[badtoworse]

52. 100% correct. It was a tragic accident.

Negligence? Very likely, but it was still an accident. Theactions of terrorists are not accidental.

[spanone]

2. k&r...

[CBGLuthier]

3. Stupidity?

[Fumesucker]

10. No, cupidity n/t

[sabrina 1]

4. Does anyone know how many people died, lost their homes, were injured or

anything at all about this awful tragedy? I saw only report somewhere about 12-14 bodies being found in the rubble.

[Fumesucker]

12. The last I heard there were 60 still missing but that was days ago

I suspect they'll never find some of them, just vaporized.

[pintobean]

6. Now we have a thread with a crock of it.

[Occulus]

39. Then don't post.

Simple.

[pintobean]

50. Thanks

but I'll post as I please.

[KatyMan]

7. this doesn't really look like a before and after

photo, because it does not show the same plot of land? Maybe I'm just not looking at it right?

[kpete]

8. here you go KatyMan

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-west-fertilizer-co-refinery-explosion-slider-20130420-dto,0,5968634.htmlstory

[KatyMan]

14. Thanks.

Much clearer! I saw some pics from the ground, and it really looked devastating. Very sad. Even here in Texas, there seems to be a really tight lid on this story.

[dems_rightnow]

53. Those really are not the same area.

[Fumesucker]

11. The pictures are offset but both show the actual site of the explosion

It took me a little looking to figure it out.

[uppityperson]

9. Not a terrorist but greedy mass murderer.

[RZM]

13. Absolutely insane comparison

Negligence isn't terrorism.

Surely you understand the difference?

[sabrina 1]

17. I would say the victims were pretty terrorized, especially those in the nursing home who were

and unable to help themselves.

Is dying in an a horrific explosion like that less, well something, than dying in a deliberate shooting and bombing? I think they are all terrifying and from the victim's pov, I don't see the distinction other than the Texas explosion apparently too more lives, although it's hard to find out how many died, who they were, how many are now homeless etc. It's been a week almost, you would think they would have some idea of the extent of the tragedy.

[RZM]

22. Lots of things can cause people to feel terror

Such as being in a car accident or walking in the woods at night.

By that logic the person who rear-ended me last year is a terrorist because I was scared when I looked in my rearview mirror and saw him barreling toward me.

[boston bean]

15. What happened in TX is awful.

However, it was not terrorism.

Likening it to what happened in Boston, is a disgrace as far as I'm concerned.

In a way, it's downplaying what happened in MA. An intentional act of terrorism being compared to a nasty ass greed fucker, who didn't plan an attack, but was negligent and a greedy fucker, minimizes what those fucking pieces of shit did intentionally in Boston.

[Robb]

16. Perhaps if we didn't allow big ag's monoculture farming to require

such massive amounts of fertilizer, we wouldn't need such enormous centralized production facilities.

[kpete]

18. well

thank you very much Robb
for understanding my post better than anyone else,



and peace, kp

[Brickbat]

19. Economic terrorism. Just as devastating.

[kpete]

21. exactly

[Whisp]

35. I agree with that. n/t

[NutmegYankee]

20. Fertilizer in a farm community!?

Say it ain't so!

[kpete]

23. 1,350 times the amount of ammonium nitrate that would normally trigger safety oversight

NEW YORK - The fertilizer plant that exploded on Wednesday, obliterating part of a small Texas town and killing at least 14 people, had last year been storing 1,350 times the amount of ammonium nitrate that would normally trigger safety oversight by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

Yet a person familiar with DHS operations said the company that owns the plant, West Fertilizer, did not tell the agency about the potentially explosive fertilizer as it is required to do, leaving one of the principal regulators of ammonium nitrate - which can also be used in bomb making - unaware of any danger there.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-fertilizer-plant-massive-amounts-unreported-ammonium-nitrate-article-1.1322766#ixzz2RD3IMtDm

[NutmegYankee]

24. No shit, there's a lot of fertilizer at a fertilizer plant? nt

[kpete]

25. i will distill it further:

did not tell the agency about the potentially explosive fertilizer as it is required to do,

[NutmegYankee]

26. And if he had, it's likely little would have been done.

It's fairly common to find big caches of fertilizer in farm communities. The government is watching the buyers, to ensure the fertilizer goes to dirt and not to Ryder trucks.

Ammonium nitrate is a primary fertilizer for nitrogen.

[kpete]

27. ok

fine then

Big Business Can Break The Law Whenever They Want

Is that the kind of country you want to live in?

oh wait....

we DO live there...

you win!

peace, kp

[NutmegYankee]

28. I never said that, and you know it.

I'm laughing at your terrorism accusation.

[Whisp]

36. and I am giggling at the misuse of meanings of words.

terror is terror. It's not specific to Why The Fear. We should not allow meanings of words to be hijacked.

reassigning meanings to words to fit the program is dangerous too.

[Xithras]

29. The DHS would have done NOTHING to prevent this

DHS "safety oversight" doesn't mean what you think it means. The DHS has no role in ensuring that the plant itself is safe, is operated in a safe manner, and generally won't kill people. The DHS's only interest is in ensuring that the fertilizer isn't sold to (or stolen by) potential terrorists. They would have required the plant to identify their buyers, to report bulk sales, and probably would have required that a security guard be posted and a heavy chain link fence be posted around the site to prevent theft.

That's it.

The agency responsible for actually making sure the plant was safe is OSHA. Even they couldn't have eliminated the possibility of a blast. ALL fertilizer plants have the potential to explode. I live in farm country, and it's pretty well known that all plants of these types are a blast hazard. Blast risk isn't reduced by technology or volume, but by enforcing workplace habits that keep everyone keenly aware that they're working with a hazardous explosive. OSHA regulates that, though they apparently hadn't been to this plant since 1985.

[NutmegYankee]

31. That's what I wanted to point out as well.

DHS just ensures it makes to fields and not Ryder trucks. But with so many Urban DUers, they just don't understand farming and the culture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Well, some of us do

I know where my local farming supply are...fortunately in California Cal OSHA does step in where the Federal Agency does not.

Mebbe that's the reason they happen less often?

Regardless, have looked for nice high point that is also distant...time distance applies to this as well.

A couple of those are up jeep trails.

[hedgehog]

32. OSHA needs to really get into agricultural operations in a big way -

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/29/us/on-us-farms-deaths-in-silos-persist.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

not to mention all the farms using equipment without proper guards

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00038801.htm

and tractor rollovers:

http://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/aganswers/story.asp?storyID=1735

[Fumesucker]

34. Evidently then this man could have been aiding and abetting terrorists by not following legalities

We have no way of knowing who was buying massive amounts of fertilizer.

The next Tim McVeigh could be parking his truck right now for all we know.

[Xithras]

42. Could have been. Probably not.

There are hundreds of plants like this one across the country, churning out billions of pounds of fertilizer every year for farm use. Virtually none of it is used by terrorists.

But yes, there is a possibility, and the owner should be fined for not keeping the paperwork in order.

What gets me are the people touting this as if it's somehow partially responsible for the blast. While there's no question that the plant wasn't in compliance with its reporting requirements, that had nothing to do with the blast.

[LiberalAndProud]

30. He just provided the raw materials.

Perhaps terrorist organizations will notice that the regulations are lax and enforcement even more so ... Grab a few kilos and blow the what's left up. No one will know that some went missing before the disaster.

Never mind, I'm probably over thinking this.

[nebenaube]

33. hmmm.

I don't think it was a warehouse, I think it was a reflux/reactor vessel that got way too hot, too fast.

[Rex]

37. No matter what, he is a mass murderer

so he needs to be taken into custody and treated as such.

[2ndAmForComputers]

46. Criminal negligence =/= terrorism.

Not fond of hyperbole. No need of it to say how much of a dick that person is.

[cliffordu]

51. Just Capitalism, baby.

Just business as usual.