Will this kid be tortured?

[radiclib]

What say you, DU??

32 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Time expired
	No, but he should be.
	1 (3%)
	Yes, and he should be
	2 (6%)
	No, and he shouldn't be
	25 (78%)
	Yes, but he shouldn't be
	4 (13%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[BlueCaliDem]

1. A resounding NO. He shouldn't be.

Surely our authorities know it's more effective to extract information without using any type of torture since all the relevant information we've ever gotten was done by NOT using any form of torture.

[B2G]

2. No. But he's gonna sing like a canary

Predict he'll blame it all on his brother.

[HereSince1628]

3. Why else try to keep him ignorant of his constitutional rights as a citizen

by not reading him his Miranda warning?

The point seems to be to be able to use information recovered from 'interrogation' in the absence of an attorney.

[sarisataka]

5. He is a naturalized citizen

he likely knows more about his Constitutional rights than natural born citizens

[HereSince1628]

7. Yes, I accept that is probably true.

[Warpy]

8. What makes you think he was conscious enough to hear them?

There are a lot of reasons not to Mirandize a suspect on the scene. If he recovers, they can do it later in the hospital.

[HereSince1628]

11. How would an unconscious person represent a risk to Public Safety?

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2013, 03:58 PM - Edit history (1)

THAT is the exception they are invoking, and I really don't think an unconcious or semi-concious person would qualify under that.

What the Obama administration wants is to look tough on terrorism. I understand that.

BUT a person isn't endowed with constitutional rights when someone reads them to a citizen. A person is endowed with those rights by BEING a citizen.

If they want to revoke his citizenship, there is a path for that. If they want to argue the person's actions speak to being an ENEMY of the state, that needs a determination by the CIC. Obama can do whatever the hell he wants under the Yoo woo that granted dictatorial powers to Dick Cheney and his sock puppet

[Warpy]

14. There is still plenty of time to Mirandize him

as soon as the docs have done their work to stabilize him.

This is not a big deal, not yet.

[Historic NY]

9. Did you seen the arrest photos......he doesn't even know he is breathing...

He will be treated and questioned at later time when and if he is able to respond.

[HereSince1628]

13. The he couldn't meet the criteria required as a risk to Public Safety could he?

[Warpy]

15. Yes.

Until they got him stripped down and made sure he wasn't carrying any sort of dangerous device, he was still a danger.

[HereSince1628]

16. And so, by now having been stripped and put in hospital gown

he should be read his Miranda warning?

[Warpy]

22. You obviously don't know what happens in an ER when

a critically injured patient rolls in.

They have 48 hours to Mirandize him.

"The hearty laugh bespake the empty head." I don't know why I just remembered that particular line of verse...

[UnrepentantLiberal]

33. Do you have a link that says he for sure he WAS NOT read his Miranda rights?

[longship]

4. Yet another lame poll?

Take a complicated situation and reduce it to a nauseating extreme. Put it a DU poll.

Sorry.

[radiclib]

6. Sorry, I don't think it's very complicated

and I'm heartened by the response.

[chillfactor]

12. agreed....

do remember that there are always posters who are wet blankets...I have seen several of them on threads this evening...they are ornery just to be ornery

[still_one]

10. He should not be tortured, but he is no kid

[marlakay]

17. No and they won't need to

Auto guy said he was scared and biting his nails a few days after bombing when he saw him.

I think the kid will tell all.

[Pelican]

18. What kid?

He's 19 right?

Grown man who has made some terrible decisions...

[dballance]

23. 19 Is a Number Marking Passage of Time. It Has Nothing to Do With Actual Maturity.

Knowing what we know today about brain development it's foolish to classify every person who reaches a certain age as an "adult." Yet that's what we do. Science has proven that the human frontal lobes of the brain, responsible for higher-order thinking and for risk/reward thinking doesn't fully develop until the mid-20's. So a 19 year-old is really not much more mature in their thinking than 12 year-old. The older brother, who was 26, really has no excuse. But it's highly likely that the older brother, for societal/familial reasons and because of the biological reasons I've stated, had undue influence over the younger brother.

I'm not saying the 19 year-old shouldn't be held responsible. He should be. He most certainly knew blowing people up is considered bad. I'm just saying he was easier to lead astray, particularly by his brother, than he would have been were he older.

[Pelican]

25. It doesn't matter...

If you can be "convinced" that blowing people up is ok once you have reached an age of reason then there is zero sympathy.

This is not a person who we should be interested in rehabilitating. His life should be long and miserable without an ounce of hope possible.

[dballance]

27. I Think You Missed My Point

We should not be using the standard "age" of reason because you can't say that oh yesterday a person was 17 and today, their birthday, they're 18 so now they're automatically mature and totally culpable for everything. That's really silly if you think about it objectively.

[Pelican]

29. I'm thinking about it from a legal standard...

Well, Johnny, you aren't quite as advanced socially as some other people so even though you set that bus of nuns and orphans on fire we are going to treat you differently.

At a certain point there has to be a cut off. How long does immaturity count? Would you try a 43 year old man as a juvenile because he wasn't as mature as others?

Society keeps pushing the age of adulthood further and further back until we have people in their late 20s and early 30s crying for their mom and dad to fix everything.

You know why they are immature? It's because we, as a society, tolerate it.

[JI7]

26. there are certain things like killing people which i think people usually know is not ok before 19

[dballance]

28. Yes, which I said in my post. /nt

[marions ghost]

34. Agree

This is not a "grown" man. He must be held responsible, but the fact that his older brother roped him in should be taken into consideration. He will certainly pay for his crimes. There is no doubt about that.

There are huge changes in maturity that go on between 19 and 25. It has a bearing on this case. But he will pay.

[hrmjustin]

38. He will likey be executed. I am against the death penalty but I admit he deserves to get it.

[BainsBane]

19. WTF?

[ShadowLiberal]

20. No, he probably doesn't even have any info to torture him for either

I doubt he even has any worthwhile information about any other terrorists/terrorist groups anyway. Anyone he has would probably already be well known by Russia, which seems likely to cooperate with us on this, since the country the kid is from hits them with terrorist attacks far more often then any western nation does.

And even if he did have useful information, torture is a bad way to go about getting that info, there's much better interrogation methods that have proven histories of getting far more accurate information with far less lies and made up stories to make the pain of torture stop.

[sadbear]

21. It really bothers me that I can't honestly say no.

We should be able to say absolutely not in America, but I don't think we can.

[davidpdx]

24. No, I think at best they are going to be trying to figure out his motive

and whether there is anyone else out there who was helping them. I'd think those are the only two things they would be interested in at this point. Beyond that, there's not much else to do but let process play out.

[madokie]

30. Dick and w were torturers

We on the other hand are not. No this kid should not be tortured. The living shit kicked out of him by one of the family members of the dead or missing limbs or just injured yes, tortured no.

[MOTRDemocrat]

32. No. Torture has been proven not to work. nt

[gulliver]

35. 5. Nutso even to poll on this

Click

[6000eliot]

36. Fuck NO! Nobody should be tortured EVER!

Why should this even be a question?

[El Fuego]

37. Yeah he SHOULD BE, but I wouldn't want a gov't that would listen to the likes of ME.

Because at the moment I'm one of the angry pitchfork-wielding mob. But in a civilized society, a government and it's laws should protect us all from mob rule.

[LeftInTX]

39. No, he will not be tortured

Although he will be charged with terrorism, the interrogators know that he has the profile of a common criminal. He's not going to be a tough nut to crack.
It will probably take awhile for him to reveal to authorities everything he knows. However, the good cop routine will tend to work in this case.