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proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:12 PM Feb 2012

Who really benefits from putting high-tech gadgets in classrooms?

How much genuine value is there in fancy educational electronics? Don't let companies or politicians fool you.

Something sounded familiar last week when I heard U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan and FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski make a huge pitch for infusing digital technology into America's classrooms.

Every schoolchild should have a laptop, they said. Because in the near future, textbooks will be a thing of the past.

Where had I heard that before? So I did a bit of research, and found it. The quote I recalled was, "Books will soon be obsolete in the schools.... Our school system will be completely changed in 10 years."

The revolutionary technology being heralded in that statement wasn't the Internet or the laptop, but the motion picture. The year was 1913, and the speaker, Thomas Edison, was referring to the prospect of replacing book learning with instruction via the moving image.

more . . . http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20120205,0,639053.column
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Who really benefits from putting high-tech gadgets in classrooms? (Original Post) proud2BlibKansan Feb 2012 OP
Some sound reasons in favor of technology and against paper textbooks. NYC_SKP Feb 2012 #1
Is it cheaper or is it initially cheaper whistler162 Feb 2012 #9
We are Apple Centric, they're very good to us. NYC_SKP Feb 2012 #12
Also, keep in mind the licensing for the software or "textbooks" notadmblnd Feb 2012 #19
If you believe that e-textbooks will be cheaper, you're a sucker. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #20
Content will be available, schools MIGHT chose to be slave to for-profits if they want... NYC_SKP Feb 2012 #23
Large districts are already creating their own content. Robb Feb 2012 #24
Exactly, and we're on board with that and with classroom "flipping": NYC_SKP Feb 2012 #27
Tablets, Laptops etc. are Only Tools dynasaw Feb 2012 #2
will someone in a hundred years be able to pick up an ebook a read something written 100 yrs ago? madrchsod Feb 2012 #3
Unquestionably. AND, books won't be limited to people lucky enough to have collections. NYC_SKP Feb 2012 #25
My granddaughter OriginalGeek Feb 2012 #4
Having just gotten a Nook myself, I second this. backscatter712 Feb 2012 #13
Years ago, at the high school my son attended (in Canada)... nenagh Feb 2012 #5
High-tech gadget salesmen certainly do ... eppur_se_muova Feb 2012 #6
Follow the money proud2BlibKansan Feb 2012 #7
Exactly, it's not like children are going to ever use technology to get information hughee99 Feb 2012 #8
can kids afford to replace the equipment they break, lose, or give away? nt msongs Feb 2012 #10
This is what happens when you put corporate businessmen cum education reformers in charge MadHound Feb 2012 #11
Bingo proud2BlibKansan Feb 2012 #16
Trees? Things that need oxygen? I give up.......n/t theophilus Feb 2012 #14
In the right mix, the students can gain tremendous benefit ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2012 #15
Ebooks are saving trees. Now all we need to do is manufacture gadgets Zalatix Feb 2012 #17
E-book textbooks just make sense. surrealAmerican Feb 2012 #18
Am I reading this right? SomethingFishy Feb 2012 #21
No, technology isn't a bad thing. Until it fails notadmblnd Feb 2012 #22
Matches get wet. Then there's no dinner. Robb Feb 2012 #26
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
1. Some sound reasons in favor of technology and against paper textbooks.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:23 PM
Feb 2012

Technology is changing faster than ever, the change is exponential.

Ditto the amount of information, and what needs to be learned is a bit of a moving target.

Additionally, kids are CONNECTED (adults too), so teachers who have rules against smart phones in their classroom are asking for trouble.

I feel strongly that the successful classroom will embrace technology, encourage kids to use their devices to solve problems (as real working people do in the grown-up world).

And it turns out that an iPad for every student loaded with educational iBook titles is CHEAPER than all the textbooks that same student needs that year, including allowances for loss and theft.

A couple publishers, (Harcourt is one, I think) are jumping on the eBook wagon, wisely.

Anyone clutching to the past will find it increasingly challenging to connect to their students and to help them be successful citizens.

Which is NOT to say that books are dead, I love books, I keep tons of books available for the teachers and students and they gobble them up, but they aren't textbooks.



 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
9. Is it cheaper or is it initially cheaper
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:04 PM
Feb 2012

did they include loss, repair, and management system(s) for the software.

It is nice technology and useful. But, Apple technology isn't network or group managed friendly.

It will keep me occupied for the coming years. At least the three days I am in a Apple-centric school district.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
12. We are Apple Centric, they're very good to us.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:29 PM
Feb 2012

And I'm PC and Mac proficient, we have to run some PCs for our CAD/CAM stuff, so I now what "management" of software and OS means on the PC side.

It just isn't an issue with Macs, and when there are problems they take care of it, it is amazing.

As for loss/theft/damage, there haven't been enough incidents with our 1,500 students and teachers that we've had to create any special policies to cover it.

Our iPads have to be checked in and out but most users keep them checked out for long periods.

We're moving away from macbooks and to almost exclusive use of iPads.

It looks like many of the titles of eTextbooks will offer ongoing support, updates, something textbooks can't do.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
19. Also, keep in mind the licensing for the software or "textbooks"
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 07:40 PM
Feb 2012

I imagine the software companies will charge per unit and possibly require renewing each and every software license annually. The profits for these companies will be endless and everlasting.

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
20. If you believe that e-textbooks will be cheaper, you're a sucker.
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 08:08 PM
Feb 2012

The historical concept of media ownership will be made obsolete and schools will be forced to rent (license) every textbook every semester at equivalent or higher prices than real books which are currently used for years before being sold. This model has already been successfully implemented at the college level by the privateers.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
23. Content will be available, schools MIGHT chose to be slave to for-profits if they want...
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 09:47 PM
Feb 2012

But for profit content providers will have to compete with the exponentially growing competitors that provide quality content free or at cost.

It's already happening, there's no going back...

However, plenty of schools and districts will be stupid enough to make your prophecy partly true.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
24. Large districts are already creating their own content.
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 09:50 PM
Feb 2012

The model is drastically shifting. Teachers trade a chapter for an hour of PD.

Fascinating, really.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
27. Exactly, and we're on board with that and with classroom "flipping":
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 09:59 PM
Feb 2012

Partly inspired by the Khan Academy model, we are flipping the traditional lecture/homework model thusly:

Traditional: Teacher lectures at school, students practice concepts through homework alone at home without help.

Flipped: Lectures are attended by students at home on YouTube or other, with time to pause, replay, etc., and then come to school to apply concepts in the company of peers and with teacher's assistance as needed.

So obvious it makes me dizzy, but not possible until recently.

Critics point out that some kids don't have internet. True, we have open labs after schools and all day Fridays and kids can check out internet tools.

Flipped:

and http://www.fi.ncsu.edu/project/fizz/

dynasaw

(998 posts)
2. Tablets, Laptops etc. are Only Tools
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:38 PM
Feb 2012

Last edited Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I am an educator and techno geek, but recognize the fact that lap tops, tablets, etc. are simply tools. Humans have gone through thousands of tools in their history: sticks scratching on the sand, clay tablets, goose quills, papyrus and so on. Tools in themselves do nothing in terms of education. Wisely used they facilitate learning and productivity. However, I've met lots of people who own the latest gewgaws but who a) are as dumb as dirt and ) haven't a clue how to really use the most important features of their latest gadget.

Teachers charged with kids who have been handed tablets or computers need to know how to marry content to the capabilities of the new machines, otherwise it would be a pretty useless enterprise pushing digital technology in the classrooms. Corporations that manufacture the digital stuff will of course be pushing the sales, but there is such a thing as judicious decisions as to how, where and when schools are going to be integrating technology into the class rooms.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
3. will someone in a hundred years be able to pick up an ebook a read something written 100 yrs ago?
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:44 PM
Feb 2012

i know i can go to my collection and read books from 1858.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
25. Unquestionably. AND, books won't be limited to people lucky enough to have collections.
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 09:52 PM
Feb 2012

And yet people will still have collections.

Win Win.

PS: In my collection in hardcopy, but available to all electronically (sans illustration plates): Grimm Brothers Fairy Tales

http://www.literaturepage.com/read/grimms-fairy-tales.html

I think they might also offer illustrated online copies of this.

Circa 1812

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
4. My granddaughter
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:53 PM
Feb 2012

has to carry a backpack around Jr High that weighs at least 20 pounds. There just isn't time to go to a locker between each class so she carries all of them from class to class. I guarantee she'd be a janitor at Newt's school for the chance to just carry one Kindle with all her books on it.


Hopefully it won't come to that (janitoring for education) but with some of the school boards these days, I am not sure...

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
13. Having just gotten a Nook myself, I second this.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 03:42 PM
Feb 2012

It's incredibly cool to have a single device the size of a paperback that can hold thousands of books.

nenagh

(1,925 posts)
5. Years ago, at the high school my son attended (in Canada)...
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:12 PM
Feb 2012

He was part of the first class to try math via computer. The answers to the problems were just a few screens ahead of the problem page.

So his point was, students weak in math, easily got the right answer, just by looking at those. 'pages'.

Some text books in math probably had an answer page at the back, I don't know.

But his experience was it was just too easy to get the right answer....

eppur_se_muova

(36,280 posts)
6. High-tech gadget salesmen certainly do ...
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:23 PM
Feb 2012

and as long as administrators are credited with being "innovative" for blowing taxpayer's money on unproven gimmickry, it will only continue.

Technology doesn't teach, teachers teach. If only someone would ask them what they want and need, instead of deciding for them ...

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
8. Exactly, it's not like children are going to ever use technology to get information
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 01:49 PM
Feb 2012

or solve problems in their regular lives. Why introduce these expensive learning "gimmicks" into the classroom when there's no way to know if kids are capable of learning this way, or if they'll ever use this sort of technology again.

 

MadHound

(34,179 posts)
11. This is what happens when you put corporate businessmen cum education reformers in charge
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:15 PM
Feb 2012

Instead of actual education experts.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
15. In the right mix, the students can gain tremendous benefit
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 04:44 PM
Feb 2012

In the wrong mixes, just some of the vendors.

Tech is a good tool when use appropriately. It is certainly not the instant answer to improve academic performance and retention.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
17. Ebooks are saving trees. Now all we need to do is manufacture gadgets
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 06:12 PM
Feb 2012

by more eco-friendly standards, and we will have scored the most important benefit of taking the learning process online: a better environment.

surrealAmerican

(11,362 posts)
18. E-book textbooks just make sense.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 07:19 PM
Feb 2012

We'd have had them exclusively for the last ten or fifteen years were it not for textbook publishers' reluctance to give up on the printed versions.

I get where you're coming from: not all "technology" is useful in the classroom, but some is. We don't have to pretend it's 1975 in our schools: we can use the sorts of technology that are ubiquitous in our lives to help teach our children.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
21. Am I reading this right?
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 08:15 PM
Feb 2012

This is a thread against technology in schools?

Seriously?

Learning, smarter and faster is a bad thing? Having the Library Of Congress at your fingertips is a bad thing?

I don't get it.

Oh and Edison was pretty full of himself for a guy who stole half his ideas from Tesla.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
22. No, technology isn't a bad thing. Until it fails
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 08:25 PM
Feb 2012

and then all that knowledge at your fingertips is lost. Technology does dumb us down.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
26. Matches get wet. Then there's no dinner.
Mon Feb 6, 2012, 09:52 PM
Feb 2012

The OP would suggest we stop passing around matches for this reason.

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