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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI still hope the bomber is a white American By David Sirota for salon.com
The identity of the person behind the Boston bombings will strongly affect our response -- even O'Reilly agrees!/
The reason, then, to hope that the bomber ends up being a white American is because the double standard may prevent an overreaction to the heinous attacks in Boston. Indeed, if the bomber ends up being a white American, theres a decent chance we will not see a redux of the post-9/11 period when we (among other things) initiated reckless wars, passed privacy-trampling bills like the Patriot Act, overspent on the Pentagon and targeted wide swaths of the population for surveillance/warrantless wiretapping.
The same cannot be said if the bomber ends up being a Muslim in that case, the double standard will work in the opposite way, encouraging another post-9/11 redux and all the attendant bad policies that came with it.
By the way, you dont have to be a person of color or a political liberal to hope the bomber ends up being a white American. You just have to be among the groups of Americans who dont like stuff like preemptive wars, the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, the drone war, an unsustainable Pentagon budget and a broken immigration system. By their own rhetoric, some of those groups must include many self-described conservatives after all, they purport to care about civil liberties and say they want to reduce government spending.
That gets back to the original point: The reason to hope that the bomber is a white American is because in a country where white privilege and double standards so obviously affect our national security reactions, that outcome will better guarantee that the reaction to Boston is a bit more measured.
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/17/i_still_hope_the_bomber_is_a_white_american
cali
(114,904 posts)rather negative.
I thought Sirota made some valid points. I think he (or the editors) could have used a less inflammatory title.
still_one
(92,190 posts)It will be. I just hope they catch the asshole(s) that did this
rightsideout
(978 posts)Ted Kazinski (sp?)
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)Straw Man
(6,624 posts)More war abroad or increasingly violent political divisions at home: sounds like a rock and hard place to me.
Beware of no-brainers.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)and we haven't seen the blow-back for those wars yet which is due in the next 10-15 years if history serves as a guide. If we can pin this on Iran game over for a few million innocent Iranians. There is no way we will get to body counts even close to that at home, so unless an American life is worth more then a foreign life the math is pretty simple.
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 17, 2013, 07:57 PM - Edit history (1)
First, are you claiming that the current administration is as war-prone as the previous one? I would hope it isn't, but I guess that remains to be seen. Second, you're assuming all-out war as the likely consequence of any attribution of this bombing to foreign terrorists, when a more likely outcome would be the strengthening and deepening of the current covert security state we've been unfortunately becoming accustomed to since 9/11. Third, you're overlooking the possibility that political divisions here at home could have dire consequences that would extend to foreign wars, especially if the political "center" shifts even farther to the right.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)It sounds bad, but he's spot on
JI7
(89,249 posts)"looking" people.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)and guess what?...No retailiation reported.
Who'd have thunk it?
I guess sometimes expecting the worst of Americans just doesn't pan out.
JI7
(89,249 posts)most americans can relate to. things like this marathon bombing affect americans differently than when it's a military base.
just like how many people didn't think gun control was important if it's minority members of gangs doing the shooting and happening in "those areas" but if it's something like columbine , sandy hook, theater shooting it is seen differently.
after 9/11 there were many attacks on people who "looked" muslim. many sikhs were shot dead.
and has nothing to do with worst/best of americans.
golfguru
(4,987 posts)have been mortal enemies for 12 centuries!
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)There are:
Christians
Jews
Athiests/Agnostic/Devil worshippers (all the same thing)
Muslims (which includes everyone else, because they are all the same thing, too).
We quit funding education adequately.
Anybody wearing a turban.
BootinUp
(47,144 posts)2. That the US doesn't repeat any stupid foreign policy mistakes of the recent past related to terrorism.
3. I still think Clinton had the right approach.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I hope they catch the perpetrator or perpetrators soon, and I don't care what they look like.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)instead of a Muslim with dark skin?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)A crime was committed. The perpetrator(s) will very likely be caught and punished.
I don't care about the contrived reactions and phony narratives in the bullshit media.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)How about the "War on Terror" and the Patriot Act?
If the 9/11 suspects were white males, would we have invaded Iraq or had the Patriot Act?
What difference does it make?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)organizations that operate out of the Middle East.
BootinUp
(47,144 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Iraq had ZERO connection to the suspects, but it's a country in the middle east with Muslims who have brown skin.
Like I said, if the suspects were American white males, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq and we wouldn't have had the Patriot Act.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Including 82 Democratic members of the House. Well more than would have been needed to block the Iraq War Resolution.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Why exactly did invading Iraq make some semblance of sense?
Please do tell....
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)But they made sense to a lot of people at the time.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/html/PLAW-107publ243.htm
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I'm sure you would agree that if 9/11 never happened, the Iraq invasion wouldn't have happened either.
So what was the Iraqi connection to the 9/11 terrorist attack?
golfguru
(4,987 posts)The intelligence agencies of US, UK, France had agreed that Saddam has WMD's. But that was not the real reason for Iraq invasion since Saddam
had already used chemical WMD's in the past. So WMD's was nothing new.
The fear in the west was that Saddam was supporting and beginning a collusion with Al Qaeda and was acquiring nuclear materials. Known
Al Qaeda operatives were known to have visited Iraq and were receiving
support from Saddam.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)No Al Qaeda operatives received support from Saddam. It was thoroughly debunked. Saddam also had no WMD.
Like I said, had the 9/11 perps been white males, Iraq wouldn't have been invaded.
My point stands.
golfguru
(4,987 posts)My point is what I wrote was the prevailing opinion AT THAT TIME.
As it turned out no WMD's were found in Iraq, and actually Saddam
had kept Al Qaeda out. After our invasion of Iraq, Al Qaeda did come
into Iraq and is still causing bombings and mayhem there.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)and the scary Muslim meme....American xenophobia.
Had the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks been white males, prevailing opinion at the time would have been very different.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)That has been long, long debunked. No one with even a cursory understanding of the situation every thought that. The word preposterous does not even come close to describing that claim. Although after the U.S. invasion Al Qaeda did develop a huge following inside Iraq - that is true
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)She seemed to think invading Iraq was a good enough idea to vote for.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)She along with numerous politicians and millions of Americans were caught up in a xenophobic fervor after 9/11 and we ended up invading Iraq.
Something that wouldn't have happened had the 9/11 perpetrators been white and looked like Timothy McVeigh.
Clinton paid her price and lost the nomination because of her support for that xenophobic war.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)She knew damn well Iraq had nothing at all to do with 9/11 but the political calculation at the time said if she didn't support invading Iraq it would be an albatross around her neck for her 2008 run.
Clinton badly miscalculated just how inept the neocons were going to be in prosecuting their war.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Had the 9/11 perpetrators been white males that looked like McVeigh, this country would not have attacked Iraq.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)9/11 was a convenient pretext but it was going to happen one way or another.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)He used the scary Muslim meme to his advantage and justified the Iraq invasion by linking it to Al Qaeda/WMD even though it was bullshit. Had there been no 9/11 attack perpetrated by "scary" Muslims, Bush wouldn't have been able to sell the war to a xenophobic population.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)At least Poppy had the good sense not to go all the way to Baghdad.
The provocation that time was that Saddam had invaded Kuwait, after April Glaspie, the US ambassador to Iraq at the time, told Saddam the US basically didn't care.
It's easy to drum up a reason to go to war if you control the government and the press.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)but Bush II used the 9/11 attacks and American xenophobia to falsely link Saddam/Al Qaeda and justify the invasion.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)Wish I could say I was surprised.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Afghanistan is not in the ME, and the previous host, Somalia, was not in the ME either.
Pearl Harbor happened and we invaded Mexico...yup, it was that bad
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Did we invade Saudi Arabia?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)golfguru
(4,987 posts)Al Qaeda was given support and sanctuary in Afghanistan then ruled by jihadist regime of Taliban.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)I was responding to someone saying that the response would be the same whether the idiot who murdered those people Monday was black, brown, white, American or Foreign and I [ointed out who crazily wtong they were.
"Nope, it won't. When Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols, MURDERED THOSE PEOPLE AND
S.L.A.U.G.H.T.E.R.E.D those {{BABIES}} in their NURSERY SCHOOL that NOT SO LONG AGO MORNING.. NOONE...NOOOOOONE and I mean NOBODY announced that they were going to blow the heads off of every skinny blonde kid with buzz cuts OR were ADVOCATING Bombing SCOTLAND, GERMANY or any other European Country into a Vitrified Wasteland...NOONE EVER SAID THAT....E.V.E.R! So, NO, My Dear Welshman, IT'S WON'T BE!!
Don't believe me? Remember all those Scandinavian guys who were murdered because they were targetted for wearing DOC MARTENS and wearing Guns N' Roses Tees? Yeah, me neither. But how many dear sikhs, muslim Americans or other HUMAN BEINGS who fit the mindset of racist idiots are taking dirt naps today because they fit some stupid and assinine stereotype following 911?
I wrest my case."
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...the vacuum of information with their own twisted prejudices.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I live here and I want justice just as much or more than anybody, but I won't go off half cocked without knowing the facts.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2013, 02:13 AM - Edit history (1)
WITH A STRAIGHT face that the reaction to the maniac that murdered that little one and those two women, MAIMING Dozens more will be EXACTLY the same if it's found that the bomber is Muslim or a "minority" vs a WHITE MAN? REALLY??!! Are you that unaware of the history of this country where ENTIRE towns were laid to waste on the LYING WORD of someone WHITE, (ie,
ROSEWOOD FLORIDA FALSE ACCUSATION OF R.A.P.E. BY A WOMAN CHEATING ON HER HUSBAND..RESULTED IN THE RAZING OF THE BLACK TOWN OF ROSEWOOD FLORIDA AND THE OUTRIGHT MURDER OF MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN
THE SPRINGFIELD RIOT OF 1908 YET ANOTHER ACCUSATION BY A WHITE WOMAN, (SHE WAS CHEATING ON HER HUSBAND), WHICH RESULTED IN THE LYNCHING OF 2 MEN, (CHOSEN AT RANDOM); THE BURNING AND PILLAGING OF PROSPEROUS BLACK AND N.A. OWNED BUSINESSES. THE BLACK POPULATIION FLED TO AVOID {{{MASS}}}LYNCHING.
TULSA OKLAHOMA RIOT that resulted in the DESTRUCTION the PROSPEROUS AREA OF DOWNTOWN TULSA KNOWN AS GREENWOOD. This was known as 'BLACK WALLSTREET" THERE WERE MURDERS of people because a white girl was "ALLEDGEDLY" assaulted.
CHARLES STUART HOAX WHICH RESULTED IN AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN BEING ROUNDED UP LIKE SAVAGE ANIMALS....INSURANCE POLICY
SUSAN SMITH HOAX...DITTO
JESSE ANDERSON HOAX....A SAD REPEAT OF FALSE ACCUSATION BY SOMEONE WHO WANTED 250K POLICY ON HIS WIFE.
THE CENTRAL PARK JOGGER DEBACLE.
AD NAUSEAM) vs a shrug, a shake of the head, endless screams of this being a" LONE WOLF, BRAIN DAMAGED HERMIT" who was "ALWAYS THE WEIRD ONE", as opposed to someone who looks like me when it's always a broad brush because "EVERYONE KNOWS" {{wink-wink}} that "X,Y,Z PEOPLE" are, (insert adjective here).
THIS country's History is FULL TO OVERFLOWING with cases of LYNCHING on a WHOLESALE level. No, Slack, I am NOT a Bigot, an Idiot, hysterical, a conspiracy theorist nor a liar. I SPEAK FROM FACT and EXPERIENCE.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...says something about your own biases.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)and reaction would be WILDLY different. How the fuck did you add 2+2= 7 Bergere Chairs? I actually got the impression from your postings that you had issues with fellow human beings that look like me... Evidently, you weren't taught C-O-M-P-R-E-H-E-S-I-O-N...because I even gave you examples of what history has shown what IDIOTS have done IN SPITE of the evidence....WOW, I wasn't aware that stupidity was so rampant. You have gone out of your way to insult people who were speculating what WILL happen if the maniac that killed people on Monday turns out to be that "DARK SKINNED" suspect.
What bias, pray tell me, is it I have? I want to hear this and don't worry, take your time, I'll wait.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)just1voice
(1,362 posts)Well why not? Then we can all blame it on privileged journalists. Makes as much sense, which is NONE!
whathehell
(29,067 posts)and I couldn't stand him...Turned it off.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)If it turns out to be a lone wolf white person, the fear level toward Muslims/Arabs has already been ratcheted up in bigoted ignorant conservatives, making it easier for the status quo MIC to continue to justify their eternal war for profit in the ME.
False reporting is simply a means of spreading false propaganda. CNN lied again. So what? Large numbers of viewers will tune in to CNN tomorrow, and continue to believe their news.
It is not MSM's job to serve the people by always reporting the truth. It is their job to promote the interests of the 1%, and if that necessitates lying, it's becomes MSM's job to lie.
And it is very much in the interest of the 1% that American conservatives continue to hate Muslims/Arabs.
...far away
across the field
the tolling of the island bell
calls the faithful to their knees
to hear its softly spoken magic spells.
~ Roger Waters
RZM
(8,556 posts)They are doing what they are doing because:
1) they want ratings and competition is fierce, so the most sensational claims and earliest breaks get the eyeballs
2) they suck at their jobs
Zorra
(27,670 posts)MaineLinePhilly
(72 posts)Its the simple truth that the ethnicity/race of the bomber will play a huge role in the reaction. If he's white I guarantee you the reaction is going to be reported with a lot less vitriol from the media and Americans (particularly right wing) than if he ends up being something other than white.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)that President Obama would launch a bogus war against some Enemy state to be named later, because Obama is so weak that he wouldn't get in the way of an angry mob demanding some Muslims in pay in blood for this? That he is such a weak reed in the breeze that he would bend to bloodthirsty calls for collective punishment?
He thinks even less of Obama than I do.
treestar
(82,383 posts)But I do tend to agree - the immigration reform will have a better chance of failing if it's a Muslim. You can already hear the right wing pols using this to cut that down.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)and it's not that I disagree with his assessment of how we'll react as a country if the person is white or of color. I know conservatives are doing the exact same thing. On another political forum I'm on, the resident conservatives can't seem to wait to show that it's not a white guy. I don't know, at this point it's way more important that we find the person.
It says a lot about the racial politics of this country that despite the facade of unity that Americans are putting up. Liberal and conservatives are just itching to blame each other for this attack.
octothorpe
(962 posts)SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)if someone from WND, the Blaze,etc wrote that.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Nor are there going to be calls for a more violent foreign policy, tougher immigration restrictions and fewer civil liberties.
sylvi
(813 posts)Anything seems to serve as a pretext for that nowadays, with far too many people rationalizing why it should be so.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)arab muslim in america
octothorpe
(962 posts)If someone wrote an article about a bombing in of The Holy Mosque in Mecca and said "I hope it turns out to be a muslim and not a white christian westerner", would that be acceptable? The article could be about how such an attack committed by white christians would lead to attacks on westerners, etc...
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)is nothing like the backlash against muslims or people of color.
none so blind as those who will not see.
TimberValley
(318 posts)It is simply partisan politics at its worst to hope that the other side gets blamed.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)This kind of stuff belongs on an obscure blog, not in a serious news outlet
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)If it is a White American -
1. There is not going to be any outburst of anti-white prejudice.
2. There is not going to be any increase in warmongering, saber rattling and calls for a more violent foreign policy
3. This bombing is not going to be the pretext to block immigration reform
If, God Forbid there is a Middle Eastern connection and this is an Arab/Muslim person involved- the reaction is going to carry far, far, far more negative consequences for foreign policy, civil liberties, immigration reform and rights for minorities. To deny this is being disingenuous at best.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)and whose mother is black..and is an undocumented housekeeper in Arizona.
Bucky
(54,010 posts)then PNAC will come out and demand that we bomb New Zealand. Damn, this fuzzy Republican algebra is hard.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)shock and awe Oklahoma? Vandalize store owned by White people? Attack with white phosphorus and depleted uranium? Waterboard the NRA?
Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)perpetrators happen to have any Middle Eastern connection as opposed to it being a plain simple white guy? Is it or is not true that if God forbid there is a Middle East connection and the perpetrator(s) happen to be Arab and/or Muslim that we will hear a lot more saber rattling, a lot more blood lusting, a lot more racism and bigotry and a lot more ugliness in general than if it happens to be just some Joe six-pack who is just pissed off or some white guy psychopath who just wanted attention? Which scenario will produce a far, far, far, far, far more horrid and divisive reaction?
Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)What I do know is that as a "white guy" I find this desire to blame someone like me to be very disturbing. I suppose it'd be even better if the perpetrator is a Christian also? Oh, oh, and a Southerner too, you know how those people are.
Disgusting...
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)And I think you also know that if it is a white guy or a Christian or even a white, southern Christian - there is not going to be ANY outpouring of prejudice and hatred and blood lusting against white people, Christians or Southerners. That is a reaction that will not happen even if it is a white guy. I think everyone knows that.
Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)I see plenty of prejudice, hatred and blood-lust expressed against white Southern Christians right here on DU. Hell, Texas-bashing is the national sport around here. This article, and this way of thinking is just not right.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)What you are describing is ignorant snobbery - not hysterical xenophobic hatred. But there is not going to be a outpouring of vengeful xenophobic hysteria even if it is a white Southern Baptist. And no one is going be advocating military action against the South. I will make guess that if it is a white guy - it is far more apt to be a white northerner and they will be dismissed as a nutty lone wolf loser. They will not be held up a reason to adopt a more violent foreign policy or a reason to curtail civil liberties.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)It's a wish to avoid the profound overreaction of the State if we once again combine the fear of terrorism with xenophobia.
A home grown nut case is much less likely to provoke the same overreaction by the State.
I don't want to go back to colored alerts before every election, do you?
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Because if there is a Middle East connection or even worse at this moment given the current climate - a North Korean connection - prejudice, xenophobia, saber rattling, blood lusting and warmongering will skyrocket. That is the simple reality. White Americans living in America OBVIOUSLY don't have to worry about being stereotyped as terrorist born and bred in a culture of death. White Americans living in America are not going to be on the receiving end of racism in bigotry if this turns out to be a white guy -There is simply is no comparison - OBVIOUSLY.
Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)Does "I really hope this was a white woman" sound acceptable? How about "I really hope this was a breeder"?
Is this really that hard to grasp?
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)At least as a demographic anyway. A white male who has not realized that being white male means holding some very profound positions of advantage - they clearly do not understand how the world works.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Is that really hard to grasp?
No one's talking about scapegoating you or any other white person. The point is that people from the Middle East or Korea are far more likely to be perceived as "the other" and to cause a massive overreaction by the State.
Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but this article is offensive to me and to see support for the sentiment "I hope the White devils did it!" here on DU is disheartening to me, to say the least.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)A desire to blame a particular ethnic group for the Boston attack is clearly racist. Pretending it isn't serves no one.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)way to miss the point of the article by the way.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)No one is suggesting that we round up white people and look for the perpetrator.
People are just recognizing that IF the guilty person IS white, the government's reaction will be more measured.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)sylvi
(813 posts)is an asinine and cynical way of framing the discussion. How about we hope, or rather demand, that our government react in a measured and intelligent fashion regardless of who is responsible. That is after all why we elected a Democrat to run the Executive Branch. Hoping otherwise means we have ceded control as a people to warmongers and no longer have a say in the matter, so we might as well give up.
If that is the writer's point and is correct, then we are well and truly fucked, because the war machine will continue apace regardless of whoever is blamed for this horror.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)that racism is a problem in america?
alarimer
(16,245 posts)If it is a white person, then law enforcement will do its usual thing and they will eventually be brought to justice. There will be no retaliation by vigilantes who can't tell any of those "brown people" apart and this country will not go apeshit into another unnecessary war. And we won't pass laws that endanger civil liberties.
I don't know why this would be true, except that a white person committing terrorism is considered an anomaly. When in fact we do have much more to fear from right-winger nut jobs than we do from anyone else.
I'll go David Sirota one further: I hope it's some kind of right-wing militant group or individual. I don't think a true liberal could commit such an act. But an anarchist, for example, will be treated like they are liberals and demonized as such.
Of course, if it is a wing-nut, other wing-nuts will just scream conspiracy.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Though whether or not they catch the right guy is another question. If they end up fingering someone who isn't white, TBH, that'll be a sure sign that something just isn't right.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)The truth is, and I hate to say it, but what I've described happens more often than you'd think with lesser crimes; remember the scandal over SB1070 a couple years back? Racial profiling is a big part of the problem and I'm afraid it could just as easily happen with a major crime like the Boston bombings.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Zax2me
(2,515 posts)In this case the jackass writer racist is using white people.
No different than those who race-bait using African Americans or people of Middle Eastern descent...
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)white people. Barack Obama will not be denounced for always bowing and scraping to white people. There is not going to be calls to racially profile white people. There will not be demands for the FBI to increase their surveillance of white churches and other white gathering spots. If one does not know that the public and the political system will react in a fundamentally more visceral way if this happens to be a Middle Eastern person than a white person who carried this out - they are not very observant of how things work down here on planet earth.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)or racially are VERY intentionally blind to history.