Those who criticize Femen, for which women can we speak up? How close to us do they have to be?

[stevenleser]

The outrage du jour for some about Femen is that they are "Neocolonialist" or "Eurocentrist" or some other wharrgarbl (Look up the term) because they are speaking up for Femen members and other women in different cultures (Tunisia, Egypt, etc).

So how close do women have to be geographically so that you can speak up for them? How about culturally? There are women who are culturally different who live right here in the US and Europe. What kind of feminist would make the argument that you cannot speak up for mistreatment of women because those women are from a different culture or geographical region?

Would any LGBT person say you cannot speak up for laws and acts against LGBT people in Uganda because of cultural reasons or because you would be behaving "colonialist" if you do so? Of course not. That is insane. (Any LGBT folks who disagree with me please speak up, I'm willing to be corrected).

We can run the gamut of race, color, etc., and ask the same question. Oppression of a vulnerable group is oppression of a vulnerable group. It doesnt make it better if it is occuring in Asia Minor or Africa or Europe or the Americas.

Can a woman in the Czech Republic speak up for a woman in Turkey? What if the Turkish woman is on the Asian side of Turkey? Can the Czech woman still speak up for her? What if the woman speaking up is in France and not Czech Republic? Can a woman on the European side of Turkey speak up for a woman on the Asian side of Turkey?

So we have tons of new criticism and rules being made up on the fly for Femen.

[villager]

1. the left is very good at shredding itself apart

indeed, a disruptor would just need to co-opt language like, well, "neocolonialist," to get radicals sniping at each other.

Saw this a lot in the environmental movement in the 80's, which was beginning to capture a share of the public imagination then (and first started talking about climate change, etc.)

Of course, there were also arrests and set-ups, but lots of discourse on rules for proceeding, etc., while the planet continued to burn.

You can see what shape the planet's in now.

[RainDog]

2. Feminist Majority Foundation

Spoke up about the human rights violations of women in Afghanistan long before it was worth the trouble of any political figure in the U.S. - most especially since Reagan, et al supported the Taliban, just as they supported right wing death squads in Latin America.

http://www.feminist.org/afghan/taliban_women.asp

The Taliban, an extremist militia, seized control first of Herat (1994) and then Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan, on September 27, 1996 and violently plunged Afghanistan into a brutal state of totalitarian dictatorship and gender apartheid in which women and girls were stripped of their basic human rights.

Women were brutally beaten, publicly flogged, and killed for violating Taliban decrees. Even after international condemnation, the Taliban made only slight changes. Some say it was progress when the Taliban allowed a few women doctors and nurses to work, even while hospitals still had segregated wards for women. In Kabul and other cities, a few home schools for girls operated in secret. In addition, women who conducted home schools were risking their lives or a severe beating.

So, there's the Feminist Majority Foundation being all imperialist and neo-colonial claiming it wasn't enough to allow a few women to succeed while the many were enslaved.

[enough]

3. I would think it has to do with whether it is actual "speaking up for" others or

whether there is a tone of "we have a superior understanding and only we can lead you." Or "you are so beaten down by your oppression that you can't see it or know how to free yourselves."

What about asking the "others" what you might do to help them, within their context, acknowledging that you are coming from another context? And finding out what they would say.

[stevenleser]

6. That is what happened. A woman from Tunisia reached out to Femen for their help. nt

[enough]

9. Interesting, what help did they ask for? This sounds sarcastic, but I don't

mean it that way. Everything I've seen from Tunisia is expressed in "we don't need you" format. I would be interested to know what the actual evolution of this is. Thanks in advance, from someone who doesn't know much about it.

[freshwest]

4. A little less talk and a lot more action is needed. But then, this is an internet message board...

Where the former is practiced and not the latter.

I'd stop while I was ahead if I was you, Steven.

[Honeycombe8]

5. Femenses? Whats is Femenses, my Precious?

[Number23]

7. Food for thought: A post from a black Muslim woman posted in the Sydney Morning Herald

"Of course regressive ideas need confronting. But change is a long, drawn-out process, and progress takes many steps back before it moves perceptibly forward. Femen, with its crude use of nudity, isn't helping. The assumption that conversations about Muslim women can only come about if Muslim men look at enough breasts is as stupid as it sounds. Basically, ladies, keep your breasts out of my fight. And put your shirts back on."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/exposing-injustices-not-helped-by-those-who-reveal-breasts-20130410-2hlni.html#ixzz2QCsLYr4a

Personally, I still feel that both groups -- shirtless or not -- deserve serious props for bringing so much attention to the issues of sexism and patriarchy.

[stevenleser]

8. Kick nt