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FogerRox

(13,211 posts)
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 07:49 PM Apr 2013

Obama proposes Chained CPI, Obama proposes an income tax increase on the back of working families




Most understand that the Chained CPI will hurt seniors, especially woman who earned less during their working days and live a little longer than their spouses while facing their last years living alone.

But what may not be well known is that Chained CPI would be used not just for calculating Social Security and Veterans Benefits..... If the Government adopts Chained CPI for adjusting Income Tax Brackets, & wages grow more than the Chained CPI, your income rises faster than the Income tax brackets would. Over time many families would be bumped into the next income tax bracket. Currently the Income Tax Brackets are adjusted to CPI-U.

According to Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation, if individual income taxes were indexed to the Chained CPI starting in January 2013, by 2021, 69 percent of the gains in revenue would come from taxpayers with incomes below $100,000, while those in the highest income brackets would barely be affected. For example, workers with incomes between $10,000 and $20,000 would experience an increased tax burden of 14.5 percent, while those with incomes over $1,000,000 would just see an increase of 0.1 percent.


Seniors dont have the same buying patterns as working wage earners and clerical workers, which is what CPI-W is tracking. CPI-W can't possibly represent Seniors buying habits.


Seniors spend more on housing and medical care than people still in the workforce who maybe decades younger and in the prime of their health. Substituting Medical care may be impossible in some situations, and I can't imagine how one can substitute a Nursing Home. 2 out of 5 seniors rely on Social Security as 90% of their retirement income, while in 2012 the average Social Security benefit for those 65 and older was less than $15,000.

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In addition, there are fewer opportunities for substitution in these areas of consumption. Also, because the elderly are a less mobile population, they may find it more difficult to change their consumption patterns. If accuracy is the main concern to be addressed by altering the Social Security cost of living adjustment, then the BLS could construct a full elderly index that more accurately tracks the consumption patterns of the elderly. There is no basis for assuming that a Chained CPI more accurately measures the rate of inflation experienced by the elderly than the current measure,however there is no doubt that it will lead to a reduction in benefits.

Center For Economic And Policy Research


BTW, The Center For Economic And Policy Research was founded by Economist Dean Baker.

CNBC reported about a year ago:

If enacted for 2014, the change would reduce government borrowing by $223 billion over the next decade -- $158 billion in spending cuts and $65 billion in tax increases, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

CBO says its a 65 billion dollar tax increase over 10 years, as the Tax Policy Center notes, mostly on people with incomes between $30,000 and $40,000.

The Tax Policy Center looked at Chained CPI and its impact on income taxes:
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from Daily Kos




44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Obama proposes Chained CPI, Obama proposes an income tax increase on the back of working families (Original Post) FogerRox Apr 2013 OP
How many threads are we going to have on this? gateley Apr 2013 #1
As many as it takes. hay rick Apr 2013 #2
As many as it takes to do what? Convince those who disagree that you're right? gateley Apr 2013 #12
Everything has been said pscot Apr 2013 #25
Well, that's a good point, too. I'll shut up about it now. gateley Apr 2013 #26
And not everyone has read it...I didn't know about the income tax crap....n/t tokenlib Apr 2013 #42
You Could Say The Same About All Sorts Of Threads These Days... WillyT Apr 2013 #3
+1 HiPointDem Apr 2013 #4
That's great news, WillyT ... nenagh Apr 2013 #11
My Favorite Clancy Bros... 'They're Moving Fathers Grave To Build A Sewer'... WillyT Apr 2013 #17
Well, I forgot my son is working round a table this week with a bunch.. nenagh Apr 2013 #23
One MSNBC said that? Good. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #14
I think (hope) that those who feel strongly about this have contacted gateley Apr 2013 #18
It Does Serve A Purpose... Am Writing A Post About It Now... WillyT Apr 2013 #22
Meta lives pscot Apr 2013 #30
I see no other OP on the income tax increase caused by C-CPI...... NONE. FogerRox Apr 2013 #38
My, haven't you been busy? gateley Apr 2013 #39
Between DU and DK FogerRox Apr 2013 #40
Okay -- I apologize for being so snarky. gateley Apr 2013 #41
no problem, theres a lot of that venting on C-CPI going round, FogerRox Apr 2013 #43
It proves we have no intention of rolling over Samantha Apr 2013 #5
Good God Damn Sam You ROCK HangOnKids Apr 2013 #8
Yes we KNOW today, and tomorrow our short attention spans have moved on to something else Maven Apr 2013 #6
Fair enough. I retract my statement. gateley Apr 2013 #19
it's called shanti Apr 2013 #7
Yes he did! HangOnKids Apr 2013 #9
Do you think that he was telling the truth at the time? AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #15
dunno, really... shanti Apr 2013 #20
I've never seen your name before, but for some reason... Marr Apr 2013 #10
Is this addressed to me? If so, I'd suggest you go to the BOG forum and see gateley Apr 2013 #29
This could all go away but someone keeps pushing it. TheKentuckian Apr 2013 #13
How many threads? bvar22 Apr 2013 #21
I like it front and center. 840high Apr 2013 #24
Is there a space limit in cyberspace? 99Forever Apr 2013 #27
To remind people to stay active and vigilant. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #28
C-CPI cuts HEAd Start, Food stamps, CHIP, WIC, over 30 gov programs FogerRox Apr 2013 #35
Chains you can believe in. Octafish Apr 2013 #16
Sorry, but proposals don't equal legislation ready to be signed.... OldDem2012 Apr 2013 #31
They still equal betrayal MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #32
In your opinion, not mine. nt. OldDem2012 Apr 2013 #33
Because I have the capacity to differentiate between the politician and his screw-poor-people MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #34
In your opinion, yes. That opinion is not shared by everyone. nt. OldDem2012 Apr 2013 #37
DOA woiuld be good. UR right nothing has been signed yet. FogerRox Apr 2013 #36
Yes he did Autumn Apr 2013 #44

gateley

(62,683 posts)
1. How many threads are we going to have on this?
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 07:54 PM
Apr 2013

We KNOW the effects it would have.
We KNOW it would hurt people.
We KNOW it will most likely be in his budget.

We've already contacted our representatives and the WH.

What good does posting the same info do at this time? The threads just devolve into pro/anti Obama spats and we accomplish nothing.

There is no new eye-opening information about this.

What's the purpose?

hay rick

(7,611 posts)
2. As many as it takes.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:06 PM
Apr 2013

How many gun threads have we had? How many rape threads? This is vitally important to many people and if Obama's reputation is besmirched in the discussions, that's pretty trivial collateral damage

gateley

(62,683 posts)
12. As many as it takes to do what? Convince those who disagree that you're right?
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:33 PM
Apr 2013

Until Obama comes and reads the threads on DU?

Until those who haven't contacted their representatives do?

I just don't see what we can accomplish by beating the same drum -- on either side.

So as long as it takes -- to what end?

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
3. You Could Say The Same About All Sorts Of Threads These Days...
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:14 PM
Apr 2013

But it's not about us at DU anymore.

Those Twitter/Facebook/Google+ features mean that messages are being sent from here to the wider world. To be shared, passed around, and hopefully acted upon.

According to one pundit earlier today on MSNBC, the White House was surprised by the, swiftness and volume of dissent, on their Chained CPI proposal.

Which means all this exposing and sharing of information is having an effect.


Is it enough... time will tell.




nenagh

(1,925 posts)
11. That's great news, WillyT ...
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:32 PM
Apr 2013

I'm without an MSNBC connection at the moment. ....

Listening to the Clancy Bros "All God's creatures have a place in the choir"

Was the first time I smiled all day.

Your news is the second smile. thanks for the word.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
17. My Favorite Clancy Bros... 'They're Moving Fathers Grave To Build A Sewer'...
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:46 PM
Apr 2013

Or Finnegans Wake...

Or Weila Waila...




nenagh

(1,925 posts)
23. Well, I forgot my son is working round a table this week with a bunch..
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:14 PM
Apr 2013

of new team members.. in a setting far from home..

Hence the choice of The Choir..






gateley

(62,683 posts)
18. I think (hope) that those who feel strongly about this have contacted
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:48 PM
Apr 2013

their reps and the WH repeatedly. (I hadn't heard that about the WH -- good to know!)

I just think this gets our blood pressure up and gets us upset when at this point we're already doing what we need to be doing.

But if they repeated threads serve a purpose to actually accomplish something, then I stand corrected.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
39. My, haven't you been busy?
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:25 PM
Apr 2013

You have nothing better to do with your time than to research just to tell me I'm wrong?

Fine. I'm wrong.

Worth the effort?

FogerRox

(13,211 posts)
40. Between DU and DK
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:47 PM
Apr 2013

Very few people have done as much research on SS & Chained CPI as I have.

SO when I write an article, it usually is on a topic that hasnt been covered before. OR to the same as I do.

gateley

(62,683 posts)
41. Okay -- I apologize for being so snarky.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:26 PM
Apr 2013

But there has been a LOT of threads about Chained CIP on DU. People are mostly just expressing their outrage and I don't know why I lost it on this one -- that's what message boards are for.

Again, sorry I was rude.

FogerRox

(13,211 posts)
43. no problem, theres a lot of that venting on C-CPI going round,
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 02:57 PM
Apr 2013

Youre right about that. SS/C-CPI 24/7

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
5. It proves we have no intention of rolling over
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:19 PM
Apr 2013

I have been on this for the last two years, and I intend to stay on it until it goes away. Even if it is accepted by the Republicans and implemented, you will hear about this because it is simply unacceptable.

Sam

Maven

(10,533 posts)
6. Yes we KNOW today, and tomorrow our short attention spans have moved on to something else
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:21 PM
Apr 2013

These threads should stay alive until chained CPI is dead.

shanti

(21,675 posts)
20. dunno, really...
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:53 PM
Apr 2013

but my trust level in pbo has waned considerably since 2008, and i voted for him twice. what else can we do?

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
10. I've never seen your name before, but for some reason...
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:30 PM
Apr 2013

I get the feeling you have posts all over the BOG forum.

Why is that? How could I possibly divine such information from the simple fact that you don't like seeing subjects repeated on an internet forum?

gateley

(62,683 posts)
29. Is this addressed to me? If so, I'd suggest you go to the BOG forum and see
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:45 PM
Apr 2013

how many posts I have there. You've "divined" nothing.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
13. This could all go away but someone keeps pushing it.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:37 PM
Apr 2013

Hell, this whole deficits hoopla could have been been chilled out years ago when the TeaPubliKlan Deficit Commission sponsors all dropped it but the 50 billion dimensional chess player resurrected the mess over and over again.

Folks aren't about to be quiet and move on to the next shiny object to placate feelings.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
21. How many threads?
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:06 PM
Apr 2013

Until the anger and hurt of this latest betrayal is surpassed by the next one?







http://savesocialsecurity.tumblr.com/

...or until our Democratic President come out and makes a statement at least as strong as this one?





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]




99Forever

(14,524 posts)
27. Is there a space limit in cyberspace?
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:42 PM
Apr 2013

A maximum thread occupancy rule?

If you don't want read any more about it, don't click on the fucking thread.

This ain't rocket surgery, pal.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
28. To remind people to stay active and vigilant.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:44 PM
Apr 2013

The OP raises issues that have not been raised before.

If enacted, the chained CPI will be a catastrophe. We need to remember to do everything we can to prevent its enactment.

For many of, the chained CPI could push us into nursing homes earlier than otherwise. Chained CPI is designed to make middle class seniors who have Social Security and meager savings spend down what they have saved and give up on living in pain.

FogerRox

(13,211 posts)
35. C-CPI cuts HEAd Start, Food stamps, CHIP, WIC, over 30 gov programs
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:08 PM
Apr 2013

This how they get deficit reduction, not thru SS.

& thanks for making the point that most folks think C-CPI is about SS, it has a far wider ranging impact beyond SS.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
16. Chains you can believe in.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:44 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Tue Apr 9, 2013, 09:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Welfare for the wealthy. 400 billionaires worth more than 200,000,000 Americans. Corporations and the rich hiding trillions offshore. Imperial presidency, and no predecessor held to account for treason. Endless wars at home and abroad. Gotta go, Agent Mike's listening.



OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
31. Sorry, but proposals don't equal legislation ready to be signed....
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:07 PM
Apr 2013

...and this "package" is already DOA.

 

MotherPetrie

(3,145 posts)
34. Because I have the capacity to differentiate between the politician and his screw-poor-people
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:29 PM
Apr 2013

proposals, regardless of his supposed political affiliation.

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