Are unpaid internships legal?

[Locut0s]

One well known Internet start-up here in Vancouver has gotten into trouble this week when news got out that they were making heavy use of unpaid internships. There is talk about the legality of this practice and some want to take the company to court. People are saying that the laws on the books show that any such work should still be paid at minimum wage. However a quick search on the internet shows that the practice on unpaid internships is actually quite common in some industries. My question is, is this something of a legal gray area in most places?

[Swamp Lover]

1. Here in the US, unpaid internships are VERY common...

...including very lucrative internships in law firms.

[rocktivity]

2. Well, in America, interns are usually college students

who receive class credits instead of compensation.


rocktivity

[Locut0s]

13. I don't believe these are all educational. We have Co-op jobs here which are usually paid...

My university for example helps you to get paid co-op positions in companies that are also for school credit. All the ones at my university are paid anyway. It's possible that some institutions have unpaid arrangements, I'm not sure. The article I was reading didn't mention education, simply that many young people take these positions as they are seen as a lucrative opportunity to add that experience to their resume.

[upaloopa]

3. We have two unpaid interns and we are a county government

We also have some temps. I think those positions should be filled with full time persons.
It seems that when some people get in control they kiss up by cutting payroll costs. And they get a bonus for doing so.

[octoberlib]

4. Six requirements employers have to follow to keep it legal

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/keeping-unpaid-internships-legal-six-re-42428/

[Locut0s]

15. Thanks for this. I'm sure the law here in Canada is very similar. It's unfortunate....

It's unfortunate how subjective many of those terms are. When exactly does training and on the job experience cross over into real work and benefit for the employer? Sounds like a fine line that is easily fudged in favour of the employer. And most people in this economy aren't going to speak out for fear of losing the experience, even if it's unpaid it looks good on a resume and they don't want to get "fired".

This article also explains why the Co-op jobs that my university program helps you get are paid positions as in these jobs you are actually put on real projects the company is working on.

[SoCalDem]

5. Internship used to be as part of a class.. work in a related field

that would be counted as class credit..

Once upon a time, there was something called apprenticeship/on-the-job-training

Entry-level workers were paid a small wage while they learned their trade/the job. The trainee was given a specified time limit to get up to speed, and was then hired (at a better wage) or released if they could not cut it.

What has happened, is that too many "job-creators" have figured out that they can get people to work for free...so why pay them or promise them anything..

[pnwmom]

6. In the US, they're legal IF they're educational.

They're not supposed to be a way for companies to get free labor for low skill jobs.

My son is looking into doing this through his college. If he does one, he'll be getting college credit but not a paycheck.

[Cleita]

9. Back in my day I did ten hours a week working for college credit one semester but I still

got paid minimum wage. Back then it was the law.

[Cleita]

7. They shouldn't be because they seem to violate the amendment against slavery

to me anyway, but they are widespread here and I guess they are legal. They used to be called trainee positions back in my early work days and they had to pay at least minimum wage. They also had to be for a certain period of time and when the period was up the trainee was supposed to be hired at starting wage scaled for their profession. I don't know what went wrong except Reaganomics. I would certainly quash the practice if I were a Canadian.

[former9thward]

8. In the U.S. the National Labor Relations Board has always said if they do work they must be paid.

By work they mean are the internships creating value for the company. If they are they must be paid. Of course very few interns will ever complain about not being paid because their internship would end.

[olddots]

10. hey that's SHOW BIZZ

I call it slavery and a total repukian scam so its been the norm since Runny Raygun .

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

11. I had a girl just about break into tears when she found out the position being offered WASN'T unpaid

I guess the coordinator at her university just neglected to mention it. Until recently I thought they were mostly confined to the media, but apparently they're pretty common everywhere now.

[Lasher]

12. About anything like this is technically legal in the US

It's all in vogue, don'tchaknow?

[Locut0s]

14. It seems it probably is here too in Canada, but for some reason...

People are upset about this case. I know the company in question and it seems unlikely they would do something like this if it were strictly against the law. There might be mitigating circumstances in this case though, or maybe it was just the volume of such positions they were making use of.

[LeftInTX]

16. My son was paid for his Architecture internship in Texas, but no paying offers in NYC

He needs to finish his internship in NYC.

The firms aren't paying in NYC. He was treated as a staff member in his Texas job.

I know he needs the money and he doesn't quite understand why they are expecting him to work as a volunteer.

I will send the info in this thread to him.

The internship is part of his Master of Architecture certification.

When my husband was a student teacher he wasn't paid. At the district where he works, student teachers aren't paid.

I don't think this has anything to do with Reagan. Texas was a right to work state before Reagan came along.

[LooseWilly]

17. I've gotten the impression unpaid internships are de facto required these days

No employer seems willing to hire anyone without experience (college degrees seem to be irrelevant on this point). No one can get experience without being first... hired.

The solution to the Catch-22? Internships. In some tech fields they will generally be paid. Media, not so much. (I know a number of people who have done unpaid internships with a local newspaper, doing all the police blotter work. Most newspapers around the SF Bay Area use interns, mostly unpaid- with a rolling supply to fill those positions, 99% of whom will never be hired for actual pay by these companies.)

I suppose the "other" solution to the Catch-22 is to know someone with some "pull" so you can get a job. Nepotism is alive and well in every industry.

[Posteritatis]

18. Legal, just increasingly douchey as the workload/term scales. (nt)

[Sgent]

19. In the US

they are legal if they are primarily educational, and the employer derives no benefit from the intern (ie... the costs of having the intern > the actual work performed).

That being said, there has been a renewed push by the Department of Labor to investigate the internships, so a lot of companies are now paying minimum wage or eliminating the positions.

[Locut0s]

21. Yeah it seems too easy to exploit IMHO. What is of value to the company is too subjective. nt.

[applegrove]

20. I did an unpaid internship with the government back when I was in my mid twenties. I learnt

quite a bit about myself and got some support from the people I worked with. I would do it again.

[rmax]

22. It's legal. If you take it, you accept the terms.

That doesn't mean it is a bad thing. It still goes on your resume. But it is also a disturbing trend.