What a BRILLIANT IDEA: Caregiver Corps (edit: Why not expand the Peace Corps premise?)

[OneGrassRoot]

Last edited Sun Apr 7, 2013, 02:16 PM - Edit history (4)

I think this is a BRILLIANT idea!!! EDIT TO ADD: Obviously others don't see it as a potentially brilliant idea, given the few comments below. The sense of "involuntary servitude" exists with most of our workforce today as it is, given how the majority of people are enduring financial hardship and simply trying to survive.

At least in the case of college grads, they will likely view this as a stepping stone, rather than where they shall be for the rest of their lives. The resentment may be lessened knowing that. Plus, there's so much to be gained in the realm of experiencing empathy and compassion and understanding what it means to be of service to another human being; learning the stories of our elderly and benefiting from their wisdom.

There are negatives here, but I feel there are tremendous potential positives with this idea of expanding the Peace Corps premise in various ways, not only this idea of a Caregiver Corps.

Even if you feel petitions are ineffective, I wanted to bring the concept to your attention. I think it's a great idea, one to put more effort toward:

With $1 trillion in outstanding student debt and 40% of our elderly population unable to afford assisted living, something has got to change. It's time for an organization that takes care of our seniors and creates opportunities for younger Americans to start their careers and begin to establish their finances.

Tell President Obama to develop a Caregiver Corps: an organization that places recent college graduates with families and assisted living residences in exchange for debt forgiveness.


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/326/934/895/

[jerseyjack]

1. In abstract, I like the idea...

I would worry about the ability to screen and monitor the caregivers. In the past year, there were two articles about abuse of elderly in assisted living facilities.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. Certainly, but that is a general problem...

regarding the workforce and screening, as I see it. I don't see how it would be more complicated if the pool of applicants were recent college grads.

[jerseyjack]

3. It would be more complicated because of the large numberr of potential employees.

It could also be a problem..... are those corp members there because they care and want to be? Are they there because they just need to get credits to get rid of a debt? Are they even resentful because they "have" to be there because there is no other choice of employment in their chosen field?-- gotta stop the dunning phone calls somehow.

How many of the would-be lawyers, hedge fund managers, engineers and Harvard M.B.A's envisioned changing Depends diapers on a geriatric resident when they signed the debt papers? ... or wiping shit off a resident's ass.... or playing bouncing a plastic ball around a group of elderly people sitting in a circle.... or chasing a resident around the room.... -- you get the idea.

My mother is in a dementia unit at an assisted living facility. I don't know how the employees at the facility get through their day. They are special and kind. They cannot be replaced with someone off the street.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. I agree that screening is critical...

but, again, that's always the case (or should be) as it concerns caregiving, be it for the elderly, for our children, the infirm, hospice, etc.

Absolutely. No argument there.

But because of the state of things, many people currently holding those positions already resent being there, being paid so little, doing it because they couldn't find anything else, etc.

I get your point and I agree it is an aspect that will need attention, but I see the positives outweighing the negatives.

It is a voluntary program, not mandatory. Just as they offer similar student loan forgiveness for teaching in certain areas after college.

Perhaps we can have similar programs that would appeal to the various college graduates, based on their degree and interests and personality types.

This is one I hadn't thought of, and I think it's quite brilliant. It could be a tremendous gift to these young people in ways they can't imagine: empathy, compassion, learning about history from our senior citizens, different perspectives, etc.

So long as it isn't mandatory, the positives can greatly outweight the negatives so long as it's implemented in an intelligent, thoughtful manner.

[jerseyjack]

5. But that's my point. It would be a form or mandatory service for some people with large debt.

Not mandatory in the form of Selective Service but still, mandatory if there is no other way to pay the debt. With this attitude would come resentment for some participants.

[OneGrassRoot]

6. I still feel it's a worthy idea to pursue...

expanding on the Peace Corps premise.

The potential resentment is there regardless of the applicants (the traditional workforce or recent college grads), given how the majority of people are enduring financial hardship and simply trying to survive.

At least in the case of college grads, they will likely view this as a stepping stone, rather than where they shall be for the rest of their lives. The resentment may be lessened knowing that.

Maybe not.

Still worthy of consideration and exploration, imho.

[FrodosPet]

25. Being a caregiver is a hard, emotionally and often physically draining job

Forget debt forgiveness, I would honestly rather be dead than repeat the years 1998 to 2004, when I was caring for my grandmother and father. But that's just me. I had no real help other than a rare bit of relief from some close friends while under virtual house arrest, on call literally 24 hours a day (with all the sleep interruption and deprivation that entails). With this, it could be a regular job that they can (mostly, but not completely) leave at the end of the day.

Not only would a "Caregiver's Corps" deserve student loan debt forgiveness, they deserve a FAT paycheck for taking care of such helpless, needy people like Alzheimer's and paralysis victims.

[Hestia]

14. Are they going to get the proper training for senior care? It's totally different from adult care

seniors have very delicate skin that can tear; we've found out that you can't do CPR on a senior without breaking bones, etc.; moving them from bed to wheelchair is also different for them; everything is different for a senior. As they age, it gets "worse".

As long as they receive proper training and aren't surly about being there, I'd be all for it. If it is just basic babysitting, reading a book aloud, etc. I don't know.

[OneGrassRoot]

19. I think proper training would be necessary. Absolutely.

This is merely a proposed idea, of course, without a lot of details involved as yet. I don't think it's gotten many signatures.

I do think the idea has great merit though many details would need to be worked out. Definitely.

[FarCenter]

7. From debt to involuntary servitude

[dembotoz]

8. thank you

[OneGrassRoot]

9. kick for more reactions n/t

[tabbycat31]

10. I like the idea

I'm just concerned about background checks for the potential employees--- my grandmother had pain meds stolen by a home health aide that were later sold on the black market.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. Yes, as expressed upthread, that should still be the priority.

Background checks and thorough screenings are important regardless of how these positions are filled. The same for childcare, hospice, etc.

Doing it via this "Caregiver Corps" approach shouldn't be any different. Regardless of how these positions are filled, we should have a good screening process in place, to the best of our ability.

Edit to add a thank you for the reply.

[medeak]

12. k & r and signed

re background checks.... licensed care company caretaking 96 yr old parents are the scariest people have met. Constantly replacing household items. (vacume cleaner really?)

[OneGrassRoot]

13. Yikes!

That's awful, though not surprising.

I'm not sure why people think the proposed (the college grad/Caregiver Corps) approach would result in more of negative or even criminal behavior in caregivers.

There are unethical people in every age group. I still think the fact that they'd see it as a stepping stone, rather than a career, would result in more positivity all the way around with the experience.

[Demo_Chris]

15. Not a fan of this...

Largely because it would vaporize a HUGE number of jobs. Yes, they are low paying jobs, but that's modern America.

Second, I am not in favor of doing anything to help college grads. I reject completely ANY debt forgiveness. Screw that nonsense. If we want to support education make it free for all. But it damn sure shouldn't be free for some and unattainable for others.

[OneGrassRoot]

16. Interesting...

I don't see it as vaporizing jobs, because there is a tremendous (and growing) need for these services.

I wish education were free for all as well, so I see your point in that respect. I'd support programs like to bridge things until education were free, but I get the point that doing so would take the focus away from free education.

Not easy.

Thanks for your thoughts and opinion, Demo_Chris.

[angstlessk]

20. What says they too could not join the 'Care Corps'? If they are so poorly paid..maybe they would be

better off? It should really be considered..

[Demo_Chris]

21. The real issue is in combining these two things

If the goal is additional care for the elderly then that's admirable, but we can accomplish it far better by simply subsidizing it to the point that the jobs become desirable. The problem is not a shortage of people willing to do the work; it is a shortage willing to do the work, under the goofy hours required, for terrible pay. If these jobs paid fifteen plus an hour people would be lining up to do it.

But under this, we aren't talking about paying fifteen an hour, we are talking about forgiving tens or hundreds of thousands in debt in exchange for work that currently pays eight or nine bucks an hour.

So home health worker Mandy, who is busting her ass and barely making it, no hope, no benefits, no security, no future, she is making eight an hour part time on a split schedule and taking home thirteen grand a year. Meanwhile Tiffany the twenty year old college grad from the upper middle class family, she's earning the same thirteen grand a year, plus a bonus of forty grand worth of debt forgiveness. In other words the "haves" get more, the "have nothings" get screwed.

The FAIR and JUST answer is obvious: either education must be free for all, or it must be free for no one. The idea that the government should swoop in and pay off the existing debts of college grads -- most of whom come from affluent families anyway -- is certainly not progressive and borderline offensive.

[OneGrassRoot]

22. The only quibble I have with what you said is...

about college grads being primarily from affluent families.

In my direct experience, that is simply not true at all.

My daughter is in college (thank goodness a state college, so the tuition is less) and, I hope, she graduates.

We are FAR from affluent. In fact, since I haven't had hot water in a couple of weeks and struggle to keep shelter, food and utilities maintained, I'd say I'm living (and working, self employed) in poverty. Though certainly others have it much worse.

There are definitely many students in college who come from similar circumstances. In fact, many students who were homeless in high school are in college, grateful to have shelter via dormitories.

The debt is atrocious, so I agree with you about that. But to say most college students (and graduates) are from affluent families isn't a correct assessment in my experience. Perhaps you're referring to specific colleges?

[Demo_Chris]

23. Then I better back up the statement :)

COLLEGE AND SOCIAL CLASS --The Broken Promise of America
http://www.crosscurrents.org/Rainesspring2006.htm

Low income hinders college attendance for even the highest achieving students
http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_20051012/

College Access and Social Class
http://www.educationsector.org/publications/college-access-and-social-class-aj-soprano-factor

Socioeconomic Status and College: How SES Affects College Experiences and Outcomes
http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/review_of_higher_education/v027/27.1walpole.html

The idea that family wealth is irrelevant in terms of college attendence is an attractive one. We tell ourselves that education is the great equalizer, and that it is equally available to all. It's a pleasant fiction, but the reality is completely different. Students from wealthy families are overwhelmingly more likely to acheive a college degree -- something on the order of ten times as likely or greater -- and it's getting worse.

I am not saying that everyone who completes college is wealthy, but as you are clearly aware the odds are overwhelmingly stacked in favor of the affluent. Your daughter is in college, but you are clearly aware just how slender the thread is that is keeping her there. I don't mean this as a slight, it's the painful reality of poverty. Anyway, the facts are clear, so hopefully I have successful backed up my earlier statement.

Even setting it aside I hope I have made the case. I believe college should be free for anyone who wants to attend, for as long as they want to attend. Anyone at any age. Surely we can afford that as a society -- it would likely pay for itself. But lacking that, it doesn't make sense to provide free very expensive education for some, and nothing (including school lunches) for others. That, to me, doesn't seem right.

[OneGrassRoot]

24. No argument from me.

Actually, I really appreciate the stats.

It is DEFINITELY much harder to maintain enrollment in school (high school or college) when in financial hardship. Obviously.

And I'm also MOST DEFINITELY with you with regard to your belief that college should be free to all who choose to attend.

Free education, free healthcare. These are rights, imho.

I just know so many other people over the years who have attended college (and completed college) and come from low-income families, and know many kids in similar situations now currently attending college. The overall experience is much more difficult (although, as I said, some find it easier because they have guaranteed food/shelter in college -- albeit at a price) when financial struggle is part of the picture.

Hell, that makes every experience in this country more difficult, especially when contrasted with those who DON'T struggle.

Yes, the odds are most definitely stacked heavily against those who struggle financially in this country. You get no argument from me on that.

I just personally cringed at painting a picture of college students being from affluent families, as that sets up its own dynamic of prejudice. (Kind of like my reaction to the comment "they have cell phones, so they CAN'T be poor!!!"...lol)

Anyway, thanks again.

[JVS]

37. This kind of program replaces low-end living wage jobs with middle class extracurricular activities

Instead of having working class people earn $8-$12/hour and be able to modestly provide for themselves, you replace them with more affluent young people who can move back in with mom and dad (or if really wealthy can ask mom and dad for checks/ live off a trust fund) for a year and use this to brush up their resumes until they find a good placement in their career or go into a grad/professional program.

The bosses win because they don't have to spend as much and they get a more educated work force.

The students do ok because even though they're exploited, it's temporary and it looks better than saying "I spent a year unemployed while trying to figure out what I want to do with my life"

Workers lose jobs directly and indirectly lose the ability to negotiate because there are a bunch of volunteer/scabs who can take their place.

So under the guise of public service, the program does just what the economy does. Fuck over the lower class to the benefit of their superiors.

[angstlessk]

17. Oh the cynics.....I am sure folks in the Peace Corps do it for the money..does

not make them ineffective..as long as there is training and oversight..I see no problem with working off a debt that would otherwise cripple one ....I trust those folks better than I trust a home care company beholding to shareholders.

[OneGrassRoot]

18. Very well said...

"I trust those folks better than I trust a home care company beholding to shareholders."

So true.

Thanks for the reply, angstlessk.

[bowens43]

26. a better idea - follow Norway's lead. No tuition.

indentured servitude went out in the 18th century....

[OneGrassRoot]

27. Our entire society is essentially based on indentured servitude at this point.

As we fight and work to transition to a more humane, equal society (free education, free healthcare as just two examples), programs such as this could be a stepping stone.

I'm not an all-or-nothing person, so I can see the benefits of these approaches, while simultaneously fighting for free education, which isn't going to happen overnight.

This indentured servitude argument strikes me as moot, since I really feel that's what our entire economy is based upon as it is.



(Honestly, I don't know why I'm debating this since this Caregiver Corps is someone else's idea -- a very new one at that -- and it hasn't even taken hold in any significant way. Something about the replies is hitting a nerve with me though...lol)

[CTyankee]

28. The Peace Corps was successful because it attracted young, idealistic people who wanted

to travel, see the world, have adventures and make differences in the lives of people. Caregiving of the elderly is viewed as dead-end work, done by people who can't get anything better. It has zero appeal to youth who want excitement and travel if they are going to be idealistic.

Sad, but true. The people who are going to care the most are the families of the elderly. Your mother is your mother, not someone else's. I don't think this idea would appeal to too many young people, even idealistic ones...

That said, I could see how caregiving for one's elderly family member might be carved out as a "hardship exception" on paying back student loans. That way, the incentive would be there for young people to devote some time and energy in caregiving for their own family and receiving a benefit for doing so...

[OneGrassRoot]

29. That I understand. :)

I definitely don't feel being part of a Caregiver Corps would appeal to nearly as many people -- young, college graduates or otherwise, quite frankly -- as the Peace Corps, with the exciting incentives involved.

That said, I do think certain majors (graduates within the social service or healthcare field in any capacity) may be more attracted to such service, seeing it as preparation for their career combined with debt forgiveness. This particular idea can go a long way toward using one's empathy and compassion muscles, especially if it is a stepping stone and not a career (where compassion fatigue can take over).

I just like the idea of any "Corps" approach -- while we simultaneously fight for free education. I think it's worthy of exploring, not just the caregivers idea but other industries as well (so long as it's not severely impacting the general workforce which is in dire need of employment, of course).

[CTyankee]

30. When I was recovering from hernia surgery I had a home health care aide working her

way through school to be a licensed aide. She was a young woman and she told me that her friends made fun of her career choice, saying how awful it must be just to "wipe old people's butts every day." So she had real peer pressure on her career choice. I don't see a young Peace Corps volunteer being treated that way.

I do think it is a good idea to offer debt forgiveness to young people who want to work in the social services or healthcare field. That makes sense and I'm wondering if such a plan isn't already in place somewhere...

[OneGrassRoot]

31. You're right.

A quick search yielded these two examples (sorry, I've only scanned but they do touch upon what we're discussing here):

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-eliminated-college-debt-using-student-loan-forgiveness-11447710.html

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/news/economy/loan_forgiveness/

[CTyankee]

32. great plans, those! More young people will re-think careers in those professions rather than

law firms or Wall Street. Something had to be done about tuition debt for young people just starting out...

[JVS]

33. What a shitty idea! The labor market will never improve if the people continue to see young...

people as a resource from which cheap or free labor is to be extracted.

[OneGrassRoot]

34. I realize now why I'm seeing it so differently than others here.

To summarize my comments above:

1. I agree that such approaches should not impact the labor market for others; we have too many who are in dire need of employment.

2. We need to simultaneously work toward offering free education in this country, while exploring other options such as these loan forgiveness programs.

3. And this is where I see this differently from others.

I don't see this as "free" labor or slave labor or indentured servitude as many above have commented.

And I realize I don't see it that way because: A) Only a relatively small percentage of college grads would be interested in this particular idea, a Caregiver Corps; B) it's voluntary, not mandatory; and, most importantly, C) Those who may be attracted to this option may truly see it as what it's intended to be: SERVICE.

It's not merely a job. It's a way to be of SERVICE to fellow human beings.

A way to be of service to a segment of our population that is growing exponentially and who desperately need care, and relieve many families trying to deal with aging/ailing loved ones, as they simultaneously help their own situation through this debt forgiveness.

An individual who is all about $$$ will stay far away from such a program. I'm thinking graduates in the social services and healthcare fields are the ones who may have an interest.

[JVS]

35. This concept of service is destructive. Working people provide enough service, we need wages.

Service is the moral wedge that the ruling class uses to get people to volunteer to destroy jobs. Look how Teach for America is essentially a placement service to provide charter schools with a torrent of eager, short term (and thus not interested in unionization), and well educated young people who are willing to tolerate shitty wages and working conditions for a good resume line. It's time to rethink service, because it usually ends up being used as a justification to screw the public interest.

[OneGrassRoot]

36. I'm going to sit with that.

I'm going to really consider what you and others are saying. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

On one hand I definitely see what you're saying, but I also think it's not an all-or-nothing thing. I think being of service -- in the very real authentic sense -- is very important, but it doesn't have to come in the form of slave labor or diminishing labor rights in any capacity.

Thanks again.