Regarding: All In discussion on complimenting a woman (Obama)

[SCVDem]

Here is an all female panel basically saying that a man should never compliment a woman on their looks. Regardless the President addresssed Harris profesional creds first.

Okay women, you win.

I will never compliment you again on anything.

Open your own damn doors and forget any common courtesy because you're female.

I have had enough of this crap!

[TimberValley]

1. No matter what one says or does, it seems that a feminist will be offended

Some feminists complain about a lack of chivalry. Other feminists complain about chivalry.

[Whisp]

36. can you name just one 'group' that agrees on everything, all the time?

thought so...

You have to remember feminists are individuals too! Some say we are even human!

[Jamastiene]

53. Some might say we are human,

but have you noticed how few treat us as human? It is telling, isn't it? Don't you just love that OP? He's taking his ball and going home because we won't play the way he wants us to.

[Major Nikon]

68. Heaven's Gate cult?

[demosincebirth]

37. You got that right. They want to be feminists until some dude tells 'em, "gee you look nice." Then

it's a putdown.

[treestar]

74. Name a feminist who complains of the lack of it

Has any feminist ever complained about not getting compliments or criticism of her looks?

[Iggo]

89. ^^^

.

[BainsBane]

2. It's about context

It's not appropriate in a professional context. If you're on a date or the woman is a friend, it's perfectly fine. The reason why it's not appropriate in a work context is that it presents her as having value based on appearance rather than accomplishment. I think it depends on how well you know the woman. It was unfortunate the President did that. Surely as AG she did a lot in terms of convictions, reform, etc. Her looks don't have anything to do with her job. He should know better, but it's hardly a big deal.

[dkf]

26. So Kamala Harris is not a friend of Obama's?

Relegated to second tier status I see.

I guess it's okay for the Prez to tell Valerie Jarrett she looks great?

How is this not a put down of Harris then? "You don't deserve to be complemented because you are a woman who is not in the inner circle. "

[bettyellen]

28. the context is making public remarks in a "professional setting". No one is talking about banter

between peers here, are they?

[BainsBane]

49. it was an introduction to the public

How would you like to be introduced in a professional setting? I was distinguishing personal from professional interactions. If he says, say Valerie you look lovely today. that' s nice. If he introduces her as the best looking white house staffer, not so great.
It's not a complicated or new concept.

[dkf]

51. Didnt he do the same thing in the same speech for another woman?

[BainsBane]

64. I have no idea

Does that make it better?

[protect our future]

72. If you're introducing your own wife

in a professional setting, it's inappropriate to first list her accomplishments followed by a comment about her looks? (Personally, I would love it if I were that wife.)

[sabrina 1]

105. Did she complain about it? If not, then that's all that matters. Women are

capable of withstanding the horrible threat of being complimented, professionally, personally or any other way. Unless they have such a poor self image that everything is viewed by them as a deliberate attempt to demean them.

Being complimented for how I looked never diminished me at all, professionally or otherwise.

The only question here is if the woman herself was upset by it. She is a grown woman, apparently very confident and intelligent, so if it didn't bother her, maybe we should be talking about something important, like how to help women whose income is not sufficient to take care of their families, eg.

[seabeyond]

110. well, golly gee sabrina, you are there to chew any woman out if she does complain about it, right?

pat on the head if she shuts up. ass chewing if she speaks up. and lecture to any other women if they speak up.

so very consistently interesting.

[sabrina 1]

113. I am there to respect a woman who I have no doubt, is capable of speaking

for herself. Maybe your opinion of women is that they are not capable of speaking for themselves. I know that a woman who has achieved what she has achieved (and I have no knowledge of her record on issues, it's possible I might disagree with here on issues, too bad that is not the main topic here, rather than 'she got a compliment on her looks, she should be insulted, whether she is or not) is perfectly capable of speaking for herself. If she confident enough in her achievements not to get upset over a compliment, or if she liked the compliment, that is her call.

I get upset over women not earning enough to feed their children. I get upset over women being raped, rape as a weapon of war. I know that there are women who have far more to worry about than whether it is wrong for them not to be upset when someone complements them or whatever.

I will continue to speak out about against the attempt to diminish women to the status of weak crybabies who fall apart if someone does something nice for them. A vast majority of women can handle gestures of kindness!

[seabeyond]

115. yup. that. never see you stand up for women, only about bashing women on du.

good job.

[sabrina 1]

120. I'm standing up for a woman right now.

I'm standing up for her right to determine whether she was diminished in any way by a personal compliment. You otoh, seem to think she is weak and needs all of us to tell her WHY she should feel insulted. That is an insult to women. We know what we should feel, we don't need to be told how to feel. .

Btw, how is she on the issues? Do you know anything about her professional record? The president says she is very good at her job, but I don't always agree with the president on certain issues.

Too bad people are not talking about her professional achievements rather how she should 'feel' about something personal. That truly does diminish women. Ignore their professional achievements and focus on their 'feelings'.

[Buzz Clik]

95. Excellent summary.

Although I agree with the tone and frustration of the OP, you capture the nuances quite well.

[JI7]

3. you sound kind of pathetic

[nomorenomore08]

4. If your courtesy is so conditional, then how much is it really worth?

[JI7]

7. that's the thing that stands out with some of these

i notice there is alot of resentment and "well you will just have to do it yourself now" kind of a "it will show her".

[freshwest]

63. Very little, since it's so conditional on reward.

We do what we do because of our own nature. We can't control what is done is to us, only our reaction to it.

[DollarBillHines]

5. This whole issue is just so bizarre

I always open doors and I compliment women on their dress (or hair, or whatever) when warranted.

But I never encounter the hysteria (why do you think it is called 'hysteria'?) that I see on DU.

Never.

Not once.

Ever.
DBH

[BainsBane]

9. the "hysteria" is invented

No woman complained about doors. The anti-feminists invented the story to cause problems. This issue about complementing the AG is on the broadcast media, not DU.
Your use of the term hysteria is sexist, but then you know that. That's why you used the word. You call it hysteria because you don't understand, want to understand, and mock issues that don't speak to your own interests.

[DollarBillHines]

10. I don't have any 'interests'.

I have no agenda and no real philosophy.

Basically, I just like to get loaded and play some blues.

But I do love women.

I had no idea that the door deal was invented by anti-feminists.

And I apologize for the hysteria comment, I started drinking early today. It is Friday, y'know.
DBH

[BainsBane]

13. apology accepted

Just be aware there is a lot of shit stirring by anti-feminists around here. I've started to call it Straw Woman Weekly. First we had doors, then we had a thread alleging someone "recently" saw someone say all men were potential rapists. It's made up stuff designed to shit stir.

Enjoy your weekend!

[opiate69]

16. Except.. she`s lying...

There was a discussion about "benevolent sexism." When somebody asked what benevolent sexism was, seabeyond said it was "holding doors for women" and a bunch of other stuff.. And yes, "holding doors" was not only one example she cited, it was the first example.

[dkf]

30. "Benevolent sexism" was the way Susan Rice was treated after Benghazi...

Like she needed to be protected. That was so weak. Obama wouldn't have down that for any guy.

But this complement brouhaha is ridiculous.

[bettyellen]

35. defended, and rightfully so. no one was "protecting" her from anything.

[dkf]

50. Did you see George W. Bush do that for Colin Powell?

[bettyellen]

56. you realize the people and situations (and not just the genders) were different, right?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

126. no but i did see hillary clinton do it for obama

in the same controversy, 15 min later.

[theKed]

99. At the same time

there is a small group of 'feminist' members that routinely create smokescreens of passive-aggressive baiting to drum up controversy.

[Matariki]

22. It's one thing to compliment a person on their clothes and looks

and another thing to comment on the same when introducing someone or publicly dealing with someone in their professional capacity. You never hear anyone introducing a male Attorney General with comments on their looks.

It's not that big of a deal but it was unprofessional, and I'm guessing you probably don't understand this, but it's actually kind of belittling in that setting.

[treestar]

76. When is it warranted?

Do you criticize it when warranted? Why are we subject to your judgment on this? Would turnabout be fair to you? Assuming you don't look like George Clooney, would you mind if we pointed out your flaws? What if we never said anything, because you never look good? Just stick to the job and the weather. It is not necessary to pay these compliments.

[smirkymonkey]

141. Thank you! I find it bizarre as well.

I have no problem with a man holding doors open or complimenting me on my dress or hair. I like it when a man notices. I also hold doors open for men as well, and the elderly or someone who has their hands full. It is just common courtesy. I see nothing wrong with it.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. Is that how President CPI wants to be spoken of? I doubt it.

There are several women AGs in the country, mostly Democratic. His comment was also about them.
As politics, it was pitiful and on the same day his wife called herself a 'single mother'. Tacky, tacky, tacky. Rude, sexist, stupid, unprofessional and unthinking. The comment reeked of stale cigar smoke.

[JI7]

8. he didn't single out "female" so it would include among men also

[SCVDem]

11. Two things

First, this was on Chris Hayes show, so watch the segment before saying I'm pathetic.

Second, I was raised to be a gentleman.

[JI7]

14. a true gentleman holds the door open for men and women

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. Surely that implies that at most 50% of men can behave in gentlemanly fashion?

If you restrict it to holding doors open for women, you can attain 75%, which while not perfect is better.

[JVS]

140. Since doors now usually come in pairs with an outer and inner door, I've found that the new norm...

is taking turns holding doors. For example, I'll be walking with a coworker and I'll open the first door to let him or her into the vestibule. Then he or she will open the second door and hold it for me.

[Matariki]

20. As evidenced by your pissy rant.

[BainsBane]

21. Why should a gentleman

resent acknowledging a woman in a professional setting for her achievement rather than appearance? Doesn't a gentleman care about how another person feels? Or does being a gentleman now mean being angry at having to take into the consideration the views of women?

I hold doors open too, and people hold them open for me. No one sees it as a problem.

[Squinch]

128. +1

[MattBaggins]

61. "I was raised to be a gentleman"

meaningless saying

[treestar]

77. Try to get past it

Really. I was raised to be a lady, and I have to try to get past it, in order to do the job, stand up for myself, earn myself a living, etc., rather than finding some man to do it for me.

And when it is limited to holding doors - just hold doors for everyone and stop telling people what they look like. Everybody has a mirror. We don't need the reassurance.

[freshwest]

12. Since one little media story causes you such outrage you must announce this:

'Forget any common courtesy because you're female.'

Fine by me then. You can save the back breaking effort of 'common courtesy' for men alone.

Since you have a problem with half the nation based on what you imagine them to think in a rather fantastical manner, carry on with your crusade.

I am struck with tremendous gratitude when anyone helps as I'm old and tired, but I'm off your list because I am now the wrong gender for you.

Your message to dismiss half the human race from 'common courtesy' has been delivered.

However, I will continue to show common courtesy to every single human being I meet, no matter what gender they may be, or any other condition I find them in.

Because I was reared to be generous, kind and respectful to all and never, ever expected anything in return for it, other than my own conscience.

Good evening, Sir.

[SCVDem]

15. By request

Watch the clip. These women are absolutely rejecting a compliment as sexist.

Okay, we are equal.

Now ask a Republican about that equal pay thing.

[freshwest]

19. I don't take my cues from the GOP or some panel. There was a huge fuss made in the NYT of a rocket

scientist being obit'ed as a good cook, with no notification of her life work. This is probably whence this came.

Obama should address people who have professional qualifications first because that is the relationship. And I doubt he has the leisure to comment on anyone's appearance but his wife.

Don't worry, you won't have to talk to me again, since I am in the wrong gender for you.

[opiate69]

23. Hmm.. got any links?

BEcause the only thing I could find was this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/science/space/yvonne-brill-rocket-scientist-dies-at-88.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And, I see no mention of cooking, and a pretty damned decent overview of her career...

[freshwest]

32. It was a DU piece decrying her, was on the latest or greatest. I didn't comment, SSDD.

It was a tempest in a teapot.

The original obit cited her as great cook who traveled to be with her family. Not one word about her professional achievements.

Then the fuss occured and the obit was changed. This is all bullshit.

And I'm done with talking to people who think gender is all that matters.

Have a good weekend, I'm trashing this thread and using other functions to not have to deal with the DU dive into Idiocracy.

[opiate69]

33. Well.. seeing as how obits are usually written by family members, I would like to see the original..

being something of a public figure, her original obit may have been written by a staff writer, but until I see it I can't say for sure.. but I do suspect it was a tempest in a teapot, given some of the other shit I've seen over the last decade here.. was the lady I linked to the same one? If so, I'll go see if I can find the original DU thread.
on edit: I found a few posts, and it appears that it was originally written by the Times staff writer.. however, in typical zealot fashion, no thought was given to the possibility that the author actually spoke to the family before writing his piece, and perhaps they (she) wanted her obit to have a more "human interest" bent.

[Small Accumulates]

109. The NYT edited the obit after a general furor

The original lede praised her for her beef stroganoff, following her husband from job to job, and raising children. Here is the NYT Public Editor's story about it: http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/01/gender-questions-arise-in-obituary-of-rocket-scientist-and-her-beef-stroganoff/

[Jamastiene]

55. Well said. n/t

[Matariki]

17. Hey SCVDem - who gives a shit?

you're the one who'll have to live with yourself. The women you aren't 'complimenting' won't know and won't care, lol.

[seabeyond]

18. it was stupid. he was stupid for doing it. he was doing a stupid man thing and had no place

as fuckin PRESIDENT of the united states

learn

or go off in a huff

what ever.

[msanthrope]

134. "stupid man thing." Care to expand? nt

[99Forever]

24. I hear where you coming from.

I refuse to comment or support any gender related issue raised on this board, after having been gouged once too often by the militant fringers that seem to take offense at almost anything you say. They can go pound sand for all I care.

[CTyankee]

41. Aww, R U mad?

[99Forever]

42. Why would I give a fuck ...

... what some jerk too damn lazy to spell out three letter words thinks?

[CTyankee]

43. Is is sad when irony cannot be discerned...

[99Forever]

44. IT is even sadder...

... when someone trying to use irony can't construct a simple sentence.

[CTyankee]

45. I guess I'll have to give back my Master's Degree...

[99Forever]

48. Uh huh

[CTyankee]

65. will do! In the meantime, try hard to overcome being "irony deficient."

Life is better that way...and a lot more fun!

[99Forever]

82. Thank you ...

... for the unsolicited advise, Professor.

[CTyankee]

93. all in good fun...

[99Forever]

101. +1

[Squinch]

100. And yet here you are.

[99Forever]

103. Someone put you in charge of ..

... where and what other people can post, friend? I didn't get that memo, could you forward it to me? Thanks.

[Squinch]

107. I never said where and what you can post. YOU said you refused to comment on any gender issues

on this board.

I am merely pointing out that you said it in a comment on a gender related thread.

Pretty funny, actually.

[99Forever]

114. Ahh... I see...

... so you weren't implying that I shouldn't post where and when I wanted?

Whatever you say, funny person.

[Squinch]

116. Well, no. Obviously I wasn't.

But you seem to think I was. That's funny too!

Thanks for the Sunday morning laughs.

[99Forever]

118. Then exactly what was the point of your snarky reply?

Other than just being snotty?

[Squinch]

122. See my post #107 to you. You'll find the answer to your question there.

[redqueen]

138. LOL... that exchange reminded me of Steve Buscemi in Fargo.

Oh fuck it, I don't have to talk either man. See how you like it... Just total fucking silence. Two can play at that game, smart guy. We'll just see how you like it - Total silence

[Squinch]

146. I love that movie!

Yah, yah!

[bettyellen]

25. Does honoring others wishes to be treated professionally really make you this angry???

Why would it anger you to be asked to behave in a professional manner and cause you to be spiteful?

Do you not understand the difference between professional settings and personal life? I don't get at all why this should make you spiteful.

I'll still open the door for you and also spare you from critiquing your looks unless I am asked.

[demwing]

29. Don't be nice to get a reaction from others

Be nice for the way it makes you feel inside

[Whisp]

34. yay! we win!

been waiting for that for a while. ThankYou!

[DirkGently]

38. Even if you disagree with the sentiment, why would you respond that way?

Women are not a monolithic group. Why not treat the ones you like well, the ones you don't know with respect, and leave those you don't agree with alone? I know you don't mean it this way, but this sounds uncomfortably like the conservatives who say they won't support civil rights because they disagree with one thing one non-white person said somewhere.

I actually agree with the objection to Obama's comment though. This is not telling a friend you've noticed their nice pair of shoes or a cool jacket. You don't put someone's physical looks up front, in public, especially in a professional or political context. What if the AG was not "good looking?" What if someone disagrees she's "the best looking?"

It's not the right conversation to invite about someone in a public forum.

We don't do this to men. We can be pretty or ugly or "rugged" or "wizened" and we don't expect to be called on it one way or the other by our professional peers, because it has nothing do with a professional or work environment.

You tell someone they're good looking, privately, if you know for a fact they want your physical attention.

It's not the end of the world. But the point's valid.

[tularetom]

39. I first heard this on the car radio with no reference to the actual remark

All I heard was "President Obama causes a stir with sexist remark to AG Kamala Harris".

I had to get out of the car right afterward so I didn't get to hear what he said. But I spent the next hour or so trying to imagine what he had said that had got people in such a snit. I thought maybe he had made reference to her boobs or butt or something.

So when I got home I turned on the TV and found out that he had (gasp) told her she was good looking, I was almost disappointed.

There are plenty of reasons for Democrats to pissed off at Obama these days. Telling a woman she is good looking is not one of them.

Sounds like just another case of fake right wing outrage to me.

[MattBaggins]

62. You don't comment on ANY persons looks in a professional setting

It's really very simple.

The President blundered.

[CTyankee]

40. Goodness, are you going to slam a door and stomp away, too?

Stop being childish...

[smirkymonkey]

143. Good one!

Touche!

[Cleita]

46. So what about all the swooning over Gavin Newsom's good looks?

He's our Lt. Gov. in California and he's always being complimented on his good looks. He is also very accomplished professionally.

[antigone382]

131. If the president was the one to compliment him during a public speech, I could equate the two.

I don't know whether that is true or not, but I somewhat doubt it.

[WinkyDink]

47. You're the best-looking poster on DU! ;-)

[Jamastiene]

52. No love lost there.

What comes around goes around. You get what you give. Don't expect any respect if you can't give it.

[DesertFlower]

54. i'm an intelligent woman, but i have

no problem being complimented by a man or a woman.

[mercuryblues]

57. Lucky you

There are enough people offering to hold the door open for you, so it won't hit ya, where the good Lord split ya.

There is a difference between being complimented about your looks in a personal setting, than in a professional setting.

Have you ever heard Sherrod Brown introduced as the best looking senator as one of his job discriptors?


I will give him credit for apologizing instead of doubling down and acting all offended.

[protect our future]

58. I feel sad that I have to ask this,

but what about someone complimenting their own wife on her looks in a political work setting? For example, in '08 I believe, Joe Biden remarked that Jill was drop dead gorgeous during a nationally televised event. Would that be considered inappropriate? Or that Joe was setting a poor example even though he was showing admiration for his own wife? (As I remember it, he did talk about Jill's professional achievements first.)

[antigone382]

132. I think when you're talking about your own partner it is acceptable...

...assuming, of course, that you know your partner is OK with such comments in a public setting. It is expected that you will be attracted to your partner, and it is expected that the two of you will know each others' boundaries well enough that if you make such a comment he or she will be comfortable with it.

[protect our future]

137. Thank you. I agree. I wonder, however,

if this view is shared by the women who post here in defense of their own brand of feminism. To me, the furor over Obama's comment about the attorney general's good looks is ridiculous, and I wondered if the resident feminists here would go so far as to insist that complimenting your own wife is also inappropriate. That was my reason for asking the question.

[antigone382]

147. Well, I suspect that many are conflating disagreement with furor...

...although I haven't been on DU with much frequency lately and I haven't really followed the comments. I personally found the comments problematic, in that it is difficult enough for women's success to be separated from their physical attractiveness; as I see it, the flip side of Obama praising this AG for her looks is opponents of Hillary Clinton referencing the thickness of her ankles in order to discredit her. I also think there's a pretty clear difference between complimenting your spouse and complimenting a colleague or employee in that manner.

At the same time, I don't think it makes Obama a terrible person and I don't think it negates the many good things that this administration has done for women. I appreciate those things, and it is because I respect Obama and the sincerity of his intentions that I feel comfortable stating my discomfort with his words in this situation, just as I would with a friend or coworker in my daily life. I can't speak for any of the other feminists on the board, but I theorize that many of them feel more or less the same way.

[MattBaggins]

59. Oh my god

childish much

[Rex]

60. You seem pretty quick to cave.

[CTyankee]

67. I have a family full of men who are Feminists. They don't seem to feel that way...

full empowerment of women is BIG with them. And you know what? They are HAPPIER!

Little secret, here: these men have figured out women's value to their lives. They sure don't sit around moaning and groaning about how awful it is. They are actually enjoying themselves. Everything is better. And I mean "everything," if you get my drift...

[markpkessinger]

69. It really isn't complicated . . .

Why on Earth, in a context such as the one at issue, would the President or anybody else feel it was necessary or appropriate to comment, positively or negatively, about the looks of a person, male or female, who is being introduced in his or her professional capacity? Would anybody EVER do that to a man in such a situation? Of course not. There is a time and a place for complimenting a person's looks. A professional setting isn't one of them. This is not tough. It is not complicated. It is not asking anybody to "walk on eggshells."

[protect our future]

71. So even if it's your own wife and

you first speak about her professional accomplishments followed by a comment about her looks, and it's obvious that you love and admire her, it's still inappropriate?

[Squinch]

102. Wait a minute! Obama's married to her? What happened to Michelle?

Did anyone say it was inappropriate to say it about your own wife, as Biden did in the context you refer to?

No. No one did.

[protect our future]

106. I wonder why. Perhaps some posters here

were unsure of how to address the contradiction.

[Squinch]

112. I don't see it as a contradiction.

Obama was introducing a woman with whom he has a professional relationship. He was introducing her in her professional capacity. He was referring to her in the context of her profession. His remarks should appropriately have referred to her professional accomplishments.

Jill Biden is someone with whom Joe has a personal relationship. He was introducing her as someone with whom he has a personal relationship. He was referring to his appreciation for her in the context of the fact that they have a very loving personal relationship.

See the difference?

Here's another way to look at it: Let's imagine you are a widget maker. I am your widget-making boss. Let's imagine two things about you: you are a man of very small stature, and you are a fantastic widget-maker. At the annual widget-making conference, I am introducing you as I give you a promotion to widget-making line-boss. Let's imagine I say, "Protect our future is really, really short! And he makes a fabulous widget." Would that be appropriate? Would your appearance have anything to do with the situation at hand? Would it be a kindness to bring your appearance into the introduction? Would you be angry if people asked, "what does his height have to do with anything?"

[protect our future]

117. I've been asking if it is inappropriate

to compliment your own wife (i.e., Joe calls Jill "drop dead gorgeous" in a televised event wherein he was introducing her to the nation) for her looks following talk of her accomplishments.

Why is that different--or is it--from complimenting a woman on her looks although she is not your wife? (After complimenting her on her achievements, and in a professional setting, of course.)

I really would like someone to answer this.

I appreciate your comment, Squinch, but I don't feel that it answers the question I have asked several times.

[Squinch]

119. The answer is that personal comments are appropriate when you have

personal relationship and are using them in a context that refers to the personal and not professional life. Personal comments are not appropriate when you don't have a personal relationship and are in a strictly professional context.

What is so hard to understand?

[protect our future]

129. So if there is a personal relationship--"personal"

meaning pertaining to a wife or friend--it's okay to compliment said wife or friend based on their appearance when that compliment is made in a professional setting? Did I understand you correctly?

[Squinch]

130. Oh, blow it out your ear. What the hell??

From a previous post, you seem to be implying that your question is too difficult to answer. It isn't. It's too freakin' silly. The answer is too obvious, and discussion of it is too uninteresting.

Do you seriously think you are making a point here?

No, if you are seriously asking this question YET AGAIN, you don't understand correctly.

It is a painfully obvious point, one which no one I have ever worked with has had difficulty understanding since about 1985, and you seem to be incapable of understanding it.

No point in further discussion with you.

[treestar]

79. Baloney

The offense is made up on the other side of the question. The benevolent sexism thing was not taking offense, it was simply analyzing the behaviors that traditional morals offered to women as some sort of balancing out for their staying in their place. Some just tried to take that personally and so muddy up the issue.

[boston bean]

83. Obama apologized. You have a problem with that?

He recognized it was not appropriate. Why can't you?

You are a democrat that supports President Obama, aren't you?

[Quantess]

70. Who cares?!?!

There are far more imortant things going on right now, you know.

[treestar]

73. That is actually a good idea

What harm can it do?

[Comrade_McKenzie]

75. Patriarchal heresy detected in Neutral Speech Zone #710

Dispatching Gender Unification Agent 87 to assess the situation and pass judgment. Estimated sentencing for antiquated genetic predisposition to appreciate beauty of the opposite sex carries a maximum penalty of seven years in a sensitivity buffer zone. If self-esteem multiplier is applied, subject could face an additional year per amount of Internet searches for "beauty tutorials" he directly or indirectly caused.

[protect our future]

78. LOL!

[boston bean]

81. You must really hate obama for apologizing

and recognizing that he made an error.

I on the other hand commend him. You, not so much.

[boston bean]

80. If you are making an introduction of an accomplished woman

do us all a favor and focus on her accomplishments, not her looks.

That is all you need to do.

If this really bothers you, not supporting women at all, is a wise choice. Thanks for making making that choice. No woman needs you.

[Iggo]

85. Aw.

Better?

[boston bean]

86. Again, another male does something sexist

then apologizes and feminists are to blame?!

Give me a fucking break!

[geek tragedy]

88. Team MRA is really worked up over this one. nt

[smirkymonkey]

144. *Groan*

This shit is getting tireing.

[geek tragedy]

87. Perhaps you should listen to women instead of whining about how those uppity women

are so ungrateful for your gentlemanliness.

[sabrina 1]

108. Maybe he should, maybe he should stop listening the minority of women who

seem to find every word a threat to their self esteem.

I'm a woman, hopefully he will listen to me. It is not a threat to me for a man to open a door, pay for dinner, tell me I'm beautiful, in the workplace or anywhere else. I am a beneficiary of the women's movement which took care os some really important issues that need to be attended to. Such as the right to vote.

And as those early, courageous women demonstrated, we women can survive being complimented for our looks. What we do not need is to be told constantly what we are supposed to do and think and how we are supposed to react.

I'm no defender of the president, and I would prefer he focused on protecting SS eg, but if the woman herself had no problem with what he said, I respect women enough not to try to tell them that they need to be upset about something they are not upset about.

[DrDan]

90. I think there is a big difference between - "nice dress" and "she is the best looking AG"

I think he was wrong in his comment

[Buzz Clik]

91. +1

[boston bean]

92. -2

[Buzz Clik]

94. No matter how important you think you are, you only get one vote. Try "-1" and a dose of ...

... humility.

[boston bean]

96. -3

[Buzz Clik]

97. ... and a dose of ...

... maturity.

Go for -4?

[boston bean]

104. -5

[Squinch]

98. OH NO! You've had enough of this crap???

If SCVDem doesn't ever compliment me on anything again, I don't know if I can survive!

PS. Look up the door "controversy." No feminist from DU ever said you shouldn't open a door for someone.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

125. i know. i doubt i can live without the compliments of one random person on du

my life may LITERALLY fall apart

[La Lioness Priyanka]

121. aww. such drama.

[Buzz Clik]

123. Now, now. LP. It's not as if your life on DU has been devoid of drama.

I am a huge fan or yours, but all of us have dramatic diversions; quite often, we consider them hugely important on a personal level while others look on with skepticism.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

124. this post is inherently bigoted as it lumps all women in one category

in a unnecessarily dismissive way.

i doubt you could say that about any of my posts.

PS: if you have any trouble seeing the problem, substitute the word woman for any ethnic minority

Okay HISPANICS, you win.

I will never compliment you again on anything.

Open your own damn doors and forget any common courtesy because you're hispanic.

I have had enough of this crap!

honestly, i had no problem with obama's comment, kamala harris is like 3 standard deviations above the norm in good looks in either gender. it's something so obvious and striking about her, that i may have mentioned it in a comment. however all this dramatic business of "okay women, you win" really annoys me.

[Buzz Clik]

127. Points well taken! As always. However, let me offer this:

DU has the worst case of obsessive compulsive disorder I've ever witnessed. We cannot let anything go. If something catches our attention, we cannot turn away until we have discussed it -- loudly and irrationally -- for weeks with hundreds of repetitious threads. If you find yourself in the crossfire, it's easy to get a tad sensitive. That's how I see the OP. Not necessarily well reasoned, but certainly striking a loud chord I can understand.

A little dramatic? No doubt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

142. it's not just the drama, its the drama to justify the bigotry

that bothers me.

[smirkymonkey]

145. Thank YOU!

My sentiments exactly.

[SCVDem]

133. Lament. A very interesting word.

1. To express grief for or about; mourn: lament a death.
2. To regret deeply; deplore: He lamented his thoughtless acts.
v.intr.
1. To grieve audibly; wail.
2. To express sorrow or regret. See Synonyms at grieve.
n.
1. A feeling or an expression of grief; a lamentation.
2. A song or poem expressing deep grief or mourning.

When we can no longer offer good tidings or compliments without worry of overblown repurcussion, then surely as a country we have lost civility. That is my lament and why I was the OP.

I have common courtesy for men and women! I hate that to be nice is now a problem for some.

Just a thought. Why do women spend an hour to "look nice" before they go out? Seriously, after all that time, what are you looking for? A compliment of appreciation of course! That's fine.

Men and women are differnt. A compliment isn't a problem. President Obama had called Ken Salazar a nice looking man.

The original hype lasted two days, but this is a bigger problem.

Why is a compliment a problem, but controlling a womans health and reproductive rights doesn't get a blip?

Look! Another shiny object!

[seabeyond]

135. why do men and boys primp? i am watching two teen age sons right now that cannot

take their eyes off themselves when they walk past a mirror. do not make it like we are all that different.

you might want to actually think about you history and see why the work environment is not a good place to suggest a woman is "easy on the eyes". but, you have had a thread of explanations and so really this is all bullshit.

i made one statement when i heard about it. it was stupid. that was it

you are starting OPs, throwing hissies, whining about your right to give unsolicited comments on others looks and the end of civility.

really, who is making the big deal about it.

[The Straight Story]

136. Hissies is a sexist insult

you are starting OPs, throwing hissies, whining about your right to give unsolicited comments on others looks and the end of civility.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3006494&mesg_id=3007361

And:
The term is right up there with the more offensive term "hissy fit". That, too, is inherently sexist and derogatory toward women. Why can't we have reactions? Emotions? Hmmph.

http://askville.amazon.com/phrase-%27drama-queen-inherently-sexist/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=8671948

So some women find it offensive. The word must be banned to protect them and their honor. We should ask skinner to add that word to the TOS so people won't have to see it and get all freaked out if it used in a sentence.

Lord knows we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by either complimenting them or using a word that makes them all upset. Hopefully someday we will have a sexist word list that blanks out words we type here. So if I say Hillary is good looking that whole sentence would not appear. We also shouldn't post pics of Obama without his shirt. Have seen people say he was good looking too.

Damn, we have a lot of people to educate. Probably something in every thread we could teach them.

[redqueen]

139. LOL

This thread is hilarious. Thank you.