General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow Many Here On DU Are Actually Scared Of The North Korea...
....THREATS???
Do you think they are actually going to do something? Is this all talk and nothing else?
Or.
Do you think they are trying to provoke the USA to take the first shot and then China gets involved???
What are yopur thoughts.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Kim Jong Un is the MIC's wet dream.
Can't think of any other reason to be Very Afraid.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Or have I missed the 24/7 scary music imminent war on the TV?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)First question is where is NK?
We are ignoring this...foreign media, otoh, not so much.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)These are people who watch M*A*S*H, too, so I wonder what the fuck their excuse is. Maybe "Over There" is always a jungle when it's not Europe?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)They are already spreading their psy-ops on YouTube!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)they've been this way for a while.
We've seen what crazy people have accomplished before...
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Read the post I answered to
Some folks are convinced we are inching for a war. A few think we'll have a false glag in the US
bulloney
(4,113 posts)Having said that, I agree with you, Scuba, that the MIC will still use this to beat the drums to launch an attack on North Korea and mire us and our money in yet another military confrontation.
This nation's addiction to military spending is like a crack addiction.
Socal31
(2,484 posts)This is not CIA propaganda. This is not a war the US wants.
I guess no matter what there will always be those thermite-ers.
bulloney
(4,113 posts)Iraq was a lie. Vietnam was a lie. I can go on and on.
It's been lies after lies all in the name of attacking some country because they didn't walk, talk and chew gum the way our military and government leaders think they should.
I know people who lived in some of the countries that we've attacked. What they've seen and what we're told via the news media are often polar opposites.
After more than 50 years of this bullshit, there's no credibility with our military intelligence in my books.
If you repeatedly lie to me, I quit believing you. I'm funny that way.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)White House ignored and created that was the problem.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Sorry, I was around for the first one and it was a fool's errand then. I don't see where this next go around could be better.
I'm sure China is keeping an eye on the fat little king and will rein him in when the time is right.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Same old same old.
NK is like an upset teenager who says "I'm gonna run away" every year, but doesn't cuz they are just looking for attention.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Given very recent, 16 hours now, escalation...that moved me to Te concerned category.
Drale
(7,932 posts)I am worried their kid leader might be crazy enough to launch an attack on the South and use nuclear weapons. It war would be short and extremely bloody with the North Korean government being completely destroyed. Also if North Korea use Nuclear weapons tacitly in a war, Iran or extremists groups might see how effective they can be to cause mass destruction and it will start even more hostilities and maybe wars.
cali
(114,904 posts)William769
(55,146 posts)That man is certifiably nuts! In a case like this, even the best analysts are no good at trying to figure him out.
RKP5637
(67,107 posts)apparent instability ... and "if" this is a game to him or is he serious ... it is so highly filtered by NK and distant. Even with direct observation and testing evaluation takes awhile. My question is what is he trying to gain ... NK would be decimated in minutes if he made good on a nuclear attack. In the big picture it's a small weenie he's waving at the world with respect to handling an assault on NK "if" he carried out his threats.
lastlib
(23,224 posts)As outsiders see, the whole country loves the "Dear Leader" (or "Glorious Successor" or whatever), but we DON'T see what the generals or top party people really think or do. There may be a vicious power struggle going on within the hierarchy, up to, and including, plots to bring down Kim. All the belligerent rhetoric may be a reflection (or a mask) of that struggle. **WE.DON'T.KNOW.**
Would we use nuclear weapons against NK if they used them first? Do policymakers think that China or Russia would sit back and do nothing if we used them at their back door? I hope somebody is asking these questions, and a few dozen others.....
. . .
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Could North Korea do a lot of damage? Yes. Would it result in their total destruction? Also, yes. NK realizes this. Which is why they've been blustering like this for decades and nothing has ever come from it.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)If they had an honest clue about the world outside
of NK, I find it hard to believe they would be
so bellicose.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)He was known for having a love of American pop culture by the other students there. He played video games and loved NBA basketball and watched American movies.
I think even he understand that his country's six or seven nuclear weapons really don't stand much of a chance against America's 8,000. Or that his military of 800,000 troops with older Soviet technology doesn't stand much of a chance against America's 1.4 million and South Korea's 600,000, both of which are equipped with the most modern weapons in the world. .
MADem
(135,425 posts)Every damn rocket they fire off fizzles like a discount fireworks.
He's throwing a tantrum. He needs food for his slaves, er, citizens.
The larders are bare. People starve more in the spring than in winter; the stores put by for the winter are all eaten and the crops aren't yet in the field.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)They will likely use kites or tie them to pterodactyls.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Just about every resource that sad sack of a country has goes toward its military.
I once heard a congressional aide who was on a fact-finding trip to North Korea say that he actually saw people eating SEEDS off the ground because they were so hungry.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)Anything is possible IMO.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Control-Z
(15,682 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Plus there is this:
Hagel: US will be moving missile defense batteries to US bases in Guam
(an American territory southeast of Korea).
a signal that the Pentagon doesn't believe the threat of a possible North Korean attack is likely to fade quickly.
A senior administration official said the U.S. will deploy the system, known as a Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense battery, or THAAD, to Guam to protect against short- and medium-range missiles from North Korea.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022610486#post3
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Their track record for successful launches is pretty sad, never mind their "get the rocket within 500km of where it should be" record.
That said, the odds of North Korea having missile-deliverable nuclear weapons, much less the means to deliver them to the correct time zone, are astronomically slim. Entry-level nukes like they probably have are huge things.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)LeftInTX
(25,291 posts)I think Kim is doing this so we will attack him first. Then he will be able to get China on his side. NK is a very weak state and having China's support will probably increase their status.
woodsprite
(11,913 posts)Scared that he's going to nuke us. No
Scared that someone in the US military will bite if the pot is stirred? A bit
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)PennsylvaniaMatt
(966 posts)Are the thousands of people in brutal North Korean torture camps...many who are being kept and beaten because of a suspicion that a RELATIVE said something about the current regime.
When a person says anything perceived as negative about the Kim family, THREE GENERATIONS of their family are sent to these camps.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)It would be a humanitarian nightmare, if nothing else.
RKP5637
(67,107 posts)elite might well be lurking in the corners ready to dethrone him. ... hence his bellicose positioning. Making it possible he will start something to demonstrate his prowess on the international stage.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Read the story about half an hour ago.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2013/0403/Kim-Jong-un-Can-US-trust-North-Korea-leader-to-act-rationally
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)We could fly a few b-2s with theater nuclear weapons and take out their whole offensive capability.
StrayKat
(570 posts)An attack from either side is not the most likely outcome of all this, but it is a remote possibility. Kim Jong Un is unhinged and isolated from reality. So, I watch.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I don't think North Korea is doing more than waving its swords around so that when they're talked down the Glorious Leader can once again claim to have "defeated the United States." If, if they actually engage in action, it will be extremely limited and while probably damaging (like the sinking of that SK ship a few years back) not exactly a "war" so much as the military equivalent of throwing rocks at someone's window.
However, some voices in the South are calling for preemptive strike... and I don't think the US would let the South Koreans hang by themselves in such an endeavor (after all, our men and women are directly in the line of return fire.) In such an event, maybe North Korea would do something crazy... and we're talking North Korea-crazy, like launching a nuke.
I think the appropriate response is to keep a close eye on the North while publicly laughing - yes, literally laughing - at their claims and threats.
JVS
(61,935 posts)It's what they do, and part of how they view themselves.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)But a war on the Korean peninsula would be a proxy war between the US, China and Russia. That would be a train wreck...
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)We lived under the constant threat of nuclear annihilation. Anyone born in the late 80s and 90s missed this fun. Anyway, it takes more than a few mean words to rattle my cage.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)They are hungry, angry and well armed. Not a good combination. They most likely cannot strike US territory but they can seriously impact local and regional affairs.
There are those here who think our interests end at the Hudson. The rest of us know better.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)people over there...
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I can see this spinning out of control quickly. Who knows what China will do.
I've got skin in the game....two skins actually.
So yeah, I am nervous. If the shit hits the fan, then I will be scared.
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)I don't think the kid (Kim Jong Un) is in control at this point. I think the military is feeding him information to get the answers they want. I do think this could lead to them taking a first strike action against the South, Japan, or possibly Guam. I don't think they can reach the continental US with a missile, but there may still be terrible consequences from what might happen.
On the other hand, they sure seem to be doing a lot of sabre-rattling. If I were about to attack a superpower, I wouldn't be telegraphing that fact openly and loudly. Makes me think maybe they just want some concessions on sanctions. Let's hope that's all it is.
B2G
(9,766 posts)They have the capability.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)I've seen several right wing conspiracy websites suggesting that NK could detonate an EMP from space. Haven't seen anyone else worrying about it.
Do a little research.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)For crying out loud, their missiles are barely functional, and that's even without any sort of payload. The only ones I see pushing this are right wingers and doomsday nutjobs.
bluedigger
(17,086 posts)I hope the NK hovercraft flotilla doesn't beat me there!
Autumn
(45,066 posts)Watch out just in case Rick Perry shows up, I get the feeling he's one clueless SOB. Protect yourself.
bluedigger
(17,086 posts)With any luck, Perry will challenge Kim to a duel.
distantearlywarning
(4,475 posts)Definitely not worried about my own personal safety since I don't live on the West Coast, nor do I believe that he can even do anything to the West Coast (Guam or Hawaii, maybe...)
But I am worried that he will do *something* crazy that will destabilize the area, cause general war to break out, cause a humanitarian crisis, cause the US to get involved and send troops to support S. Korea, make China mad, make Japan mad, etc. These kinds of things have a way of escalating sometimes. Remember, WWI started with just an assassination.
longship
(40,416 posts)First, they probably do not have a nuclear weapon, and most certainly not one that's weaponized and deliverable. The latter even if they had a reliable missile, which I firmly believe that they also lack.
I do not believe anything that the DPRK says. It's all poppycock. But they could cause much of a hoopla if they try something born out of their apparent self delusions. Things could get sticky quite quickly then. So I am concerned.
I am not worried about MIC because the US has a commander in chief in whom I trust.
We've shipped some naval assets over there, three destroyers. I trust that the CIC has intelligence so that he can take appropriate action if that becomes necessary. My feeling is that he already knows this is just bloviation, but he covers all options anyway.
But I am confident that they have no deliverable nukes, or even a functional one. None of their three tests showed a obviously successful detonation. And that's not something that can be hidden. Every physics department with a seismograph would know it within the hour. The world would know. I've heard no confirmation.
Relax, people.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)And he's in the middle of a very dangerous game.
This makes it a concern.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)to mess with. Hopefully and thankfully President Obama will weigh his options. I sure don't want him going to another war but lets face it if NK attacks SK then the US has no option because we are their allies.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They need "stuff." They're throwing a tantrum to try and get it.
China is the designated babysitter of North Korea.
I'll wager that China has more substantive talks with the US about their problem child than they'd ever admit to Krazy Kim and his pals.
PufPuf23
(8,771 posts)but whether there is gravitas to the situation as "we" are informed by media, hearsay, and direct experience.
Active war would be ugly in Korea.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Kim is simply giving lip service to the North Korea's military to better ensure his continued position of power in the government (and to make sure he gets a returning role in The Hangover III).
There is absolutely no cost-benefit PRK receives from crossing the DMZ, and unlike the fifties, China now has a good reason to ensure the status quo in the Pacific Rim nations.
Yes they have a large army, but even the largest army cannot do anything other than police their own border without an air force to prevent the opposition from air power projection... and the PRK's air force is, at best, ineffective.
From Jane's to The Journal of Defense Modeling and Simulation, the consensus is that there is no scenario to be played out that would allow the PRK even a semblance of a tactical victory.
octothorpe
(962 posts)But no, I'm not really worried about it too much. I'm for sure not concerned about my personal safety. There is concern for the people in region if this spins out of control somehow.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Is way better for that.
Though it gives a cartoonish background
polly7
(20,582 posts)does something really stupid.
Paladin
(28,254 posts)jazzimov
(1,456 posts)And I disagree - I think we learned LOTS from Vietnam. I say this as someone who missed the lottery by one year.
Paladin
(28,254 posts)I had this naive notion that our experience in Viet Nam taught us a lasting lesson about waging pointless, expensive, socially divisive wars on the other side of the world. Dick Cheney, a compliant media, and a stupid, vengeful public showed just how naive I really was. And here we are, looking at North Korea, and joking about how negligible a threat they are. It all sounds very familiar.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)dembotoz
(16,802 posts)we have seen suicide bombers and attacks
crazy people can do crazy things.
scared??? not really
aware???? yes perhaps
Raine
(30,540 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)IF the generals perform a coup or his step brother does something drastic, then I might be concerned. In photos his generals look like they are starving. That cannot be a good sign imo.
Autumn
(45,066 posts)the NK leader is, shall we say, a little touched.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Our squadron was rotating to Japan in November, 1962. Our planes had been junked and sent to Arizona to be stripped of anything useful and then left to rot. The other squadrons were deployed from our base, MCAS El Toro because it could be a target. So, we were locked in our barracks and marched to and from chow to make sure none of got the idea that being trapped on ground zero wasn't such a good idea and took off.
Like most of the others, I was too young and dumb to be scared.
Now, I'm too old and cynical to be scared at the antics of the big shots acting like adolescents in the boy's room playing tough guys.
jazzimov
(1,456 posts)"sabre-rattling".
Basically, it means a country threatening war in order to get "something", even if it just means saving face in their own country - even though they never intend to follow through because they know they would lose.
The wild card here is that Kim Jong Un is a "kid" which tends to make him reckless. NK has done this same thing before, but this kid may be stupid enough to follow up.
But I doubt it.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)It's still in my lexicon, but I'm old.
BootinUp
(47,143 posts)nothing much more imho. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take appropriate measures based on secret intelligence or lack of it.
savebigbird
(417 posts)...and I did before this latest threat.
progressoid
(49,988 posts)The US doesn't want it. The Chinese don't want it. SK doesn't want it. And Kim is just bloviating.
Global warming. Low wages. The environment. Corporate run government etc. These things concern me more.
avebury
(10,952 posts)I would not be surprised if the Military-Industrial Complex are working on starting the next military conflict. We certainly don't want to see their profits drop.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Apophis
(1,407 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)My small fear is that they've realized that they've painted themselves into a corner. That their economy has finally completely collapsed, that there's not much room on their side for negotiation because they have nothing left to offer, that their own news agency has reported cannibalism. Plus it might have finally sunk in that South Korea just might not come around to their way of thinking.
Combine that with a possible perception, right or wrong, of American weakness: the lowest number of GIs stationed in Korea since the war ended, plus a decade of recent war might make them think that our military is exhausted (I know/hope our national spirit for new wars is).
Finally, combine that with a young god-king who grew up watching his lunatic daddy's Hollywood movie collection, with a giant army and hardly anybody left who has actually seen the horrors of war in person. People like that, in my experience, often can't wait to try their hands at war, especially generals: what good are all the toys if you don't use them?
In short, they may genuinely believe that war on some scale is their best option.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)with limited nuclear capabilities and an out-of-control military, I think it could escalate VERY quickly into something that they never intended. But wars, hot or cold, have a tendency to do that. Their sabre-rattling against South Korea leaves us NO choice but to beef up our presence in the region. I think China is probably having "Come to Jesus" meetings with them as we speak. I think Russia's watching nervously from the sidelines hoping China and the U.S. will be able to back this thing off.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)And they are not going to let that pudgy goofball derail their export gravy train, or their own economy will collapse.
North Korea is following the same script they always use, threaten, bluster, then beg for food.
They have little or nothing of value to actually bargain with, except a starving population.
sakabatou
(42,152 posts)undergroundpanther
(11,925 posts)greedy corporations and arrogant leaders are bullies to most countries,I wish the american people would stop going along with the bullying corrupt and evil leaders and corporations,and let the CEO and politician face the consequences of their actions and decisions,personally.In other words the world hates us,and I hope these other countries are more with it than many americans are,and can separate the citizen from the monsters at the reigns of power,crime and profit in this country.
Yes in so many ways citizens are little Eichmann's,but at some point you have to get over it and stop going along, it has gotten so bad,so hard to organize others, in this fake atomized programmed engineered 'reality', that overlays an overwhelming tragic reality that is painful to look at we all co-created, so many have become stressed,mentally ill,sick, unable to live,unable to fight or don't know who the real enemies to their happiness are anymore ,overwhelmed,too obedient to authority,anxious,traumatized,too scared, unable to deal with the actual sad reality of what our lives have become because of the 1% that desire we live as we do.
Why so much misery,desolation,desperation,social awkwardness,isolation,abuse,escapism,addiction,silence and anxiety? Why do so many people in this country kill others or commit suicide? It's not because guns are all over the place,really.What is happening to the human heart,the soul the mind and body,the society we live within. WHY?
Maybe it's because the profit mongers secret keepers manipulators,social engineers,and all the participants ho make life so unreasonable who fail to ask what purpose their job serves,who benefits,who wants this study/program/tool/weapon and what for...?? Why this war, that war,why this economy type.(there are many other models for an economy without needing profit or accumulations of symbol-paper or credits to determine who gets what)..why do we tolerate this sadistic authoritarian modified token based economic society that has human beings living like an ant colony?T
Why tolerate the pollution making,the machines the 'ownership',the GMO's,the abuse,who does it benefit? Who does it hurt? and most of all why do we go along with this stupid painful deceptive travesty? Why do we not care enough for one another,why do we ignore and keep things compartmentalized,how long are we gonna play their games,by their rules,with our country, our lives our well being and the future,the animals and planet?
Some care a lot,some will never care, but somehow,love and trustworthiness is in such short supply.Why?What or whom made it like this? why do we tolrate intolerable people,intolerable lies ,intolerable machines,intolerable companies and social structures? And why do we keep going along with our own ruin and the planet's ruin.Is this short sighted imaginary zero-sum game(economies) and status/ pecking order bullshit so damn important? Really?
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)We don't really know who we're dealing with. Kim is obviously insane, or extremely immature, or both...a walking, talking loose cannon.
Do we take what he's saying as a lot of hot air...or not?
I agree with those who say China will be a major player, however it turns out. But will Dear Leader even listen to THEM?
Interesting times...
JI7
(89,248 posts)dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts).
malaise
(268,967 posts)JHB
(37,159 posts)Who's really in charge?
Who's jockeying for position?
Who's waiting in the wings behind the old generals?
What sort of infighting is there, and is it a shoving match or a knife fight?
Is there anyone who will turn a shoving match into a knife fight to advance personal ambition?
Short of genuine derangement, the biggest danger is that power plays within the NK leadership get so focused on each other that someone does something that -- deliberately or accidentally -- triggers actual shooting.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Not much I can do about that situation, frankly.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)should be concerned. It's unlikely they could deliver any nukes they might have created, but that doesn't make the possibility zero.
There is something about these latest threats that strikes me as different from previous NK temper tantrums that were actually bargaining moves for more food and other stuff.
I hope this turns out to be nothing.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I think that the Dear Leader wants stuff. Like supplies and money. He also seems to be in need of a little attention from his mental healthcare professional. He is a person who has an expensive education and knows that it will be a death sentence for him if he attacks America.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)If one of these world powers even snifs he is going to do something they will whack him. This is a country that adds no economic or strategic value to anyone. No one s going to let a 26 year old whack job start WWIII, IMO.
FSogol
(45,481 posts)Similar to Rand Paul's filibuster to bring in donations.
maryellen99
(3,788 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)which, once it goes human-to-human, could wipe out a large percentage of the world's population. And is a far more likely scenario. And may be incubating even now in Asia.
While we blather on and on about Kim Jong Un, viruses are now swapping genes in the bloodstreams of pigeons and chickens in Eastern China.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I don't know what. I don't think anyone knows. But it's been in the making for well over a decade.