Marriage doesn't need religion thrown in

[SHRED]

Straight couples, right now, don't need religion to get married. People choose to bring religion into the legal contract known as marriage but it is not a requirement. The government is not debating religion, they are debating legal rights for all.

Although I agree with the pastor, having religious folks on the MSM only confuses and muddies the subject of marriage IMHO.

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Baptist pastor tells ABC: Same sex marriage is ‘the freedom God has given you’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/31/baptist-pastor-tells-abc-same-sex-marriage-is-the-freedom-god-has-given-you/


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[Heidi]

1. Except for the part about the source of freedom, I agree with the pastor.

He chooses to live within the confines of his faith but does not demand that the rest of us live within the confines of his faith. I wish more people were so rational.

[southernyankeebelle]

3. That's the problem. Some christians aren't rational. It's their way or no way.

[tom2255]

2. Why do we need govt permission to get married?

It's too late to change it now, but the problem is we put the govt. in charge of baby-sitting our personal relationships. Consenting adults shouldn't need to go beg permission to get married. If 2 guys or 3 girls want to get married they should be able to do what they want, their relationship has not effect on anybody else. If they want to formalize that in their own faith in their own church, that's up to them and their church.

[SHRED]

4. Marriage is a legal contract with obvious reasons

The government is not "baby-sitting".

[undeterred]

5. Because its a legal arrangement.

Marriage comes with all kinds of federal and state rights. If you take the government out of it there are no rights. So the government gets to decide what constitutes a legal marriage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States

[southernyankeebelle]

6. The reason the government is involved is for married people are alllowed to get a piece of paper

that their spouse can take to their work place and allow them to put their spouse on their health insurance, fill out tax papers and buy a home and protect all their assets they built up between them throught the years. I would call it civil unions. I know my mother and dad had a civil union first before they got married in a church like a couple of days apart. I think that is the way they do it in Italy. Or at least my parents did it that way. I think everyone should get married through a civil union first. That gives it the seal of approval of the government. The government isn't telling you who to marry.

[Heidi]

7. That's the way we do it in Switzerland, too.

My husband and I were married in the village clerk's office. If we had wanted a religious wedding afterward, we could have had that afterward.

[southernyankeebelle]

10. Yes I think that would solve the gay issue and have everyone married in civil unions first. Then if

you want the church's blessings go for it. Personally I think having the civil unions cuts out all that wedding dress and hugh party afterwards. I did have a church wedding. I had a long sleeve white dress. Plan and simple. I had a reception at my home afterwards. We had a really nice dinner and we even openned our wedding gifts after dinner. We had maybe 30 people or so. We really enjoyed it. No pressures. Then we went to Annapolis, Maryland and stayed at the lovely Hotel on the water for the weekend. Then after we went back home and stayed with the family for the rest of the week. We had a ball. I don't know why people want to have such a big to do and go crazy. My best girlfriend said she wished her wedding could have been done like mine. She had one of those big fancy wedding where everything went on time. So much money was spent. She wished she could of had a do over.

[Heidi]

12. We had a dinner and party, too,

after we walked home from the village. No honeymoon, though. We had just adopted The Wiley and Excellent Boy Kitten Named Ginger, and he would not have approved of us leaving him with Nonna so early in his life.


Ginger, shortly after we got married


Ginger today (See? He eventually grew into his ears!)

[southernyankeebelle]

14. Awe, she is a cutie. I have a Nonna also. My Nonna lived in Italy. She was the best Nonna a

kid could have. Patience with us american grandkids that's for sure. She would let me comb her hair for a hour at a time. I was gentle with her and sometimes she would fall asleep. But she didn't care. I that am a Nonna I try to be that way with my granddaughter. She is my world. She is only 7 but she loves to help me cook in the kitchen. I would tell her what my Nonna and my mother would tell me. Watch me and learn how to cook. She loves it.

[Heidi]

15. I bet you're a great Nonna!

My husband is a Swiss citizen of Swiss-German and Italian heritage. We live about five minutes by car from the Italian border. So The Wiley and Excellent Boy Cat Named Ginger bosses us around in English, Swiss-German and Italian meows.

[southernyankeebelle]

24. Gee we have alot in common. My husband was born in Germany and brought here to the states

by his adopted parents. I love living in europe. You don't have the crazies we have here. Germany is a beautiful country. I lived in Frankfurt and Heildeberg when my husband was in the army. Plus when I was little with my parents we lived in Germany. That was in the mid 50s. I love living in europe because you can hop in a car and drive anywhere and be in another country before you know it. Here in the states its so big. You can travel to many lovely places but it's mostly the same thing. Although you get different accents and it's fun to hear.


I try to be a good Nonna. But my granddaughter calls me Yaya because we have a Nonna already and I wanted to be different from my sister. You know how it is. A child might say grandma and all the grandmas that are together turn around. I didn't want that. Anyway my only granddaughter has unfortunately more then one grandparent on the other side. There is a grandie, meme, nannie, and me Yaya (like in the Greek word for grandmom). Love being a grandmother. It is better then being a parent. LOL

[Bluenorthwest]

21. You need to learn the facts. You have it all backwards and confused.

Right now, I could go get married in a religious ceremony with my partner. Many churches and temples perform them, there is of course no law against any religious practice in the US.
The problem is the State will not issue a license to make that marriage legal, to make it an actual marriage.
You had a license to marry from the State. What you wore and what rituals you did was all optional, done for yourself, not required to make a marriage in the eyes of the State.
In Las Vegas straight couples get married at a drive through window, one stop, no waiting. Think about that for a minute.
I am a bit sick of dealing with straights who do not even understand the laws they claim to be so devoted to.
http://www.702wedding.com/las-vegas-drive-thru-weddings.asp
Note the tab that says 'Elvis'.

[southernyankeebelle]

22. And I said "the law needs to be changed to reflect the changes that are on going.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. That's exactly how it is here as well, clerk's office does the marriage, religious stuff optional.

People of religion here are confused and have it all backwards. No one in the US needs any religious ceremony to marry, and no one in the US can marry with a ceremony alone, it all begins and ends with that license from the State.

[Heidi]

20. Yep.

I'm American and my first marriage was a small church ceremony AFTER a visit to the county clerk's office to get the license. I was very young at the time and I don't think I knew we also get married at the courthouse and dispense with the church thing altogether.

My view is that if it's "marriage" at the courthouse for straight folks, it's marriage at the courthouse for our LGBT brothers and sisters, too. If fundies want to stomp their little feet over the term "marriage," they should come up with another term to describe the "one man, one woman" thing, because they don't own the concept of marriage.

Good morning, Bluenorthwest!

[Bluenorthwest]

11. In the US when a couple marrys without religious ceremony it is called marriage, at city

Hall they get married, they don't get a 'civil Union' they get a marriage. Some go to church to add icing to that cake, but others don't care for all the empty calories of that icing and no one is compelled to ice the cake. The civil license is what makes it a marriage.

[southernyankeebelle]

13. What ever you want to call it civil union or civil marriage it would be legal under the law if it is

done at the court house. That requirement for all government action for people to protect their assets. A church wedding is icing on the cake as you call it. I would make people have a civil union or civil marriage at a court house first.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. No it is not 'whatever you want to call it' it is marriage, period.

Every couple that marries already has to get a license to marry from the court or other government office. It is not possible to become married without that status being granted by the State.
The religious or other ceremony is not required, it is optional, it is icing on the cake and nothing more.
The religious part is grafted on by some who dig that sort of thing. It is not a requirement and it is not what makes a 'civil union' into a marriage. A marriage license completed makes a marriage and only a marriage, not 'civil as compared to actual' just plain old marriage. A marriage at the Courthouse by an official of the State is legally the same as a licensed marriage completed with a ceremony done by Francis himself along with Rick Warren and that Rabbi from the radio.

[southernyankeebelle]

19. Why are you getting upset? I agree with you. All am saying is the law should be changed to reflect

the changes in the way people think. Stop getting out the butcher knife. I have a right to express myself and I am not taking your right away. Whatever you want to call it is fine. Just make it legal in the eyes of the law and not the church. That solves the problem for everyone. I am sure there will be some minister that will marry a same sex couple in a church after they got a marriage certificate at the justice of the peace office.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. The Church is optional, no law in the US can prevent or force any religion to do

If you think you are agreeing with me, think again. You say 'there will be some minister' but only those who want a minister need one, and any gay couple can right now today go out and have a minister and sanctuary and the whole religious ceremony. Today. It happens every day. Religious freedom is the law. Problem is the State only recognizes opposite sex marriage and will not issue a license, thus it is not legal.
Think about divorce law and how that works with religion. RCC does not allow divorce, yet the State will divorce an RCC couple no questions asked, religion does not matter. The RCC will not perform remarriage for a divorced couple, but the State will gladly issue a license to marry to a divorced Catholic, what the Church thinks is not a factor at all. So clearly the State functions aside from religion in marriage and in divorce and the State does not enforce religious dogmas about marriage and divorce. The State, when issuing a license to a couple, does not need permission from any cleric, and the Church not acknowledging divorce does not mean Catholics can not divorce and remarry with full legality. Just means they can't do it in the Catholic Chruch. No one can make the Church marry divorced couples, just as the Church can not make the State refuse them marriage.
Think about it.

[southernyankeebelle]

27. You can't change what churchs will not do. However you can change what law can be changed.

I would rather be recognized of a marriage under the eyes of the law. Right now that can be gotten.

[tom2255]

23. We currently get that paper from the government.

If things had come about differently we could get that paper from a lawyers office. The insurance company makes the choice to recognize the paper from the government. They could chose to recognize the paper from a lawyer instead.
We gave the government that power. Now they use that power to impose the will of the religious right onto gays who want to get married.

[MattBaggins]

28. You don't have to beg

That is some seriously silly anti government ranting.

[ieoeja]

31. That is actually how most marriages took place during the Dark Ages. But there were problems.

When people argued over inheritance or divorce, some agent needs to have the authority to mediate. The early Church tried to get the Dark Age rulers to do so, but few were interested in the affairs of workers. They ruled. They did not govern.

So it fell to the Church. But how could the Church mediate these disputes if there was no definitive record of the marriage in the first place? And that is how the Church got into the marriage business. Not for religious reasons. But for government reasons.

And that is why you need government in marriage.


By the way, I know quite a few couples who declare themselves married. But they did not get legally married. So I assume they do not claim married on their taxes, etc. But as far as people in general are concerned, these marriages exist. Many of their friends and family may not even know that they are not legally married.

This type of marriage is very popular in the neo-pagan community.

[Uben]

8. I got married without religion.....

My wife and I went to the courthouse and signed a certificate of informal marriage. It cost $25 (in 1995). It makes the marriage legal in the eyes of the government.
We had been living together for a year and a half and decided to make it legal. In order to qualify, you have to have lived together as a couple for 6 months or more (you sign a statement to that effect). Can't get much easier than that.

[hobbit709]

9. a lot of things in life don't need religion thrown in.

[MineralMan]

17. When you obtain the license at your local jurisdiction's location,

It is not called a "Civil Union License." It is called a "Marriage Licence." Without that Marriage Licence, recorded in the local jurisdiction, you are not married. If you have a civil union, you are not married. Marriage is a special status under the law, entitling the couple to all sorts of privileges and responsibilities. Civil unions and marriages are not the same.

Churches perform weddings, not marriages. After you have one, your marriage, already committed to with the marriage license, is recorded and your status as a married couple is official. You can have a wedding without any religious ceremonies, too. Different states do that in different ways, but however your wedding is performed, the actual marriage depends on that marriage license.

Anyone who says a civil union is the same is wrong.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. And Mineral Man explains it in clear langauge anyone can understand, if they want to.

Thanks to you for that.

[MineralMan]

30. You'd think everyone would already understand all that.

Apparently not.

[el_bryanto]

29. Marriage already has religion thrown in

I do agree though that the MSM doesn't really know what do do with religion - they never do. And many religious advocates kind of use that to their advantage, presenting whatever they happen to believe as representative or biblical when, in some cases, it's neither.

As for the religious or philosophical significance of marriage - nobody likes the idea of Civil Unions replacing Marriage in a legal sense - Civil Unions for both straits and gays giving them both the exact same civil rights. Why isn't this acceptable? Because the word marriage carries additional connotations, whether those are religious or philosophical or societal that cannot be abandoned by either side.

Bryant