Abortion Fight Really About Banning Or Outlawing Contraception All Along.

[TheMastersNemesis]

It should be obvious that the abortion fight the since Roe V Wade has been about actually making, using or having contraception medications or devices illegal or unavailable has been the goal of the religious right and the Catholic church all along. How else is the public supposed to interpret their action or rhetoric?

What is most notable is how the GOP is still passing laws that are against abortion but also pushing laws like persons hood that would make contraception illegal itself. Personhood would take out most of methods of contraception as an option. And once they get personhood as the law of the land what is to stop them from sanctifying the egg and sperm as well.

And if you review the rest of their agenda they are against condoms or any other mechanical means that prevents fertilization. The only thing left is abstinence.

The GOP and fundies are following the dogma of the Catholic church that says all methods including sterilization are forbidden. And the Church also pretty much implies that you must have all the children God wills you.

So we are headed back to the middle ages if the fundies, the Church and the GOP gets its way in this country. The gay marriage issue aside, the attack on the right control the size of one's family is still under attack when you look at recent passed and proposed legislation on this matter. Even passing laws threatening doctors and support personnel for assisting in abortions. Stopping abortions because genetic defects.

And if that is not enough there is rhetoric out on the blogosphere about criminalizing adultery or sex outside of marriage. The latest pronouncement about punishing people for sex outside of marriage should make everyone take notice. Having covenant marriage and outlawing divorce are dreams of the fundies. No exception abortion laws are also on the books now.

Even though what is going on might seem to be isolated it is all part of the same approach to control a person's personal life. Even men will be effected if all the laws the fundies want ever get passed.

It might seem remote that the fundy agenda could become national. But you wonder when such terrible anti abortion laws are passed in places like North Dakota and Mississippi.

What is so amazing about such policies is that the people and organizations that almost demand such policies are against any law the promotes social or economic justice.

[MichiganVote]

1. Suppression of Women

[GeoWilliam750]

17. And dominance over all people

The Republicans and right wingers are all about taking away the rights of others to "protect their own freedom"

[LadyHawkAZ]

2. an awful lot of people have been saying this for an awful long time

I'm glad they've finally broken cover, and people are starting to see it.

[southernyankeebelle]

15. Sometimes I stay up at night because I can't sleep. I remember a few years back

when I came across the catholic channel and this couple was on with a priest. The discussion was her having had an abortion at one time and she never had told her husband because it was before they met. Well they were talking about abortion and the pill and that both should be outlawed. Then and there I realized the religious leaders in this country are going to impose their will on women. If the young women don't get out there in the streets and fight for their rights especially when it comes to birth control they will be in deep, deep trouble. No religion or government has a right to tell a woman what to do with their own bodies. It is so insulting. Women should leave their churchs in roves. WAKE UP WOMEN

[ProfessionalLeftist]

34. The American Taliban n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

35. Crazy but true.

[gollygee]

3. I remember ages ago

arguing with someone that the anti-abortion crowd would at some point attack contraceptives, and being told I was crazy and hysterical. "No one would ever try to take away any kind of contraceptive That's crazy!"

I hope that person remembers our conversation from many years ago.

[kestrel91316]

4. I've been catching flack for years and been called Chicken Little

about it since the 80s. I'e always said they really wanted to end all contraception.

And now I'm saying they want us all dead (liberals). If you think they don't, YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

[GeoWilliam750]

18. No they do not want us dead

They want us subservient, submissive, and compliant; they seem to regard anything else as a threat.

[TheMastersNemesis]

6. Believed They Were After Contraception Even 30 Years Ago-

You are right most people would think you were hysterical if you proposed such and idea. The fact that these same fundies and the GOP were against condoms even to prevent HIV was the most important clue. And the other agenda was always in the background if one paid attention to the rhetoric.

Very few Americans know that contraception was pretty much illegal in the 19th century in many areas. Laws controlling sexual activity were common in many states. and there are some still on the books.

I do believe that you have to take these pseudo Christians seriously because they have infiltrated so much or our political landscape. When you have an active movement to "Christianize" our military like that that is going on at the Air Force Academy you need to take notice. And when you have a Christian community that is infiltrating the public school system via the voucher system you have to take notice.

[Thinkingabout]

30. I heard this in the background of their conversations but dont think it was all coming

From the Catholics, it was other groups which seem to desire to push their thought on everyone around them. I feel lots of pressure coming from the "evangelist" bunch also. I heard today this crazy side has been pushing anti abortion, anti birth control and getting prayer back in the schools but the person saying this did not think it was going to happen. If you just vote the way they want you to it will happen and we have ended up with the likes of GWB and Crazy Cruz. For those who vote for someone based on the fact "they are against abortion" is not getting the candidates properly. I tell them I vote against those candidates.

[mrdmk]

37. Could not find a link to C. Everett Koop statement back in the 1990's on 60 Minutes

Dr. Koop (paraphrased) said Anti-Abortionist (pro-lifers) really shot themselves in foot by wanting to outlaw abortions and also outlawing contraceptives. He went on to say that they cannot have both, it is unreasonable.

If people are just now realizing what the Anti-Sex Police are all about, they have not been paying attention!

[MoclipsHumptulips]

5. It is about controlling Women. Period.

Always has been.

Anti choice D's are as bad if not worse than the R's.

[tclambert]

16. With Republicans it always seems to come down to a man's property rights. Like a man owns his wife.

And owns his children. And businessmen own their workers. Unlike with slaves, though, once workers get too old, like 50, the businessman can discard them, and feel no moral responsibility for them.

Maybe they hate same sex marriage because in raising the idea of marriage equality, it might start giving their wives ideas.

[Cleita]

7. I ran across something interesting about the early church fathers circa 400 AD.

It seems some believed that until the embryo looked like a baby, it didn't have a soul and could be aborted. About this time there also was a variety of opinions about contraception from the ultra conservative nothing allowed but celibacy to some lassitude about what could be used and when. So apparently, even this is not chiseled in granite.

[blkmusclmachine]

8. Big Gov't In Your Vagina.

That's what I call getting f/cked.

[cali]

9. No it's not. There's a small group within the larger anti-choice

movement who would like to see bc banned, but it's tiny.

And PLEASE don't make the utterly unscientific claim that personhood amendments (which are going nowhere) will ban most forms of contraception. They will not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/health/research/morning-after-pills-dont-block-implantation-science-suggests.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Personhood legislation is not the shit we should be worried about and it's a distraction. Yeah, it's dramatic but the real roadblocks being thrown up by the right are ones such as making doctors at clinics have hospital admitting privileges, legislation that makes clinics have the same building codes as hospitals, waiting periods, ultrasound and other intrusive policies.
The odds of a personhood amendment to the Constitution are miniscule; vanishingly small. Only N.D. has passed a personhood amendment and it will be swiftly struck down. I'd like to add that corporate interests, which as we all know wield huge power, will not easily go along with this shit. There's billions of dollars at stake.

You make the claim that "they" are against condoms; who are you referring to? The Catholic Church? So what? Catholic women employ birth control in the same numbers as non-Catholics. And 99% of women use birth control at some point. Most republicans are not against birth control- though a sizable number in Congress support a company not having to provide it through insurance. That's different from wanting to ban it all together.



This just isn't what is making abortion less accessible.

[oldhippydude]

10. it's not only the Catholics...

add the Dominionists (quiversful practitioners), among other conservative Protestants...

[shenmue]

11. The fanatics want women to die for having sex they don't like.

And that's it. Ectopic pregnancies are just what the women deserve, according to these cretins.

Why isn't that murder?

[shawn703]

12. They'd never sanctify sperm

Because then men could no longer masturbate. That would be infringing on men's sexual rights, which we all know is the last thing our government would let happen.

[longship]

13. I, too, have been saying this for decades.

To the most vocal and active anti-abortion folks, this has always been about contraception in general. It was never just about abortion.

Open your eyes, sheeple. (<== a Morning Sedition meme, not a cut down.)

[justhanginon]

14. Cannot understand

I have never been able to understand the rationale of being against birth control and abortion at the same time.

[Rozlee]

19. They want fetuses born no matter what.

I had a huge blowout with an anti-choice relative and two of her friends over another relative of ours that had an elective abortion due to an anencephalic fetus. She had her surgery during her fifth month. They argued that she should have carried it to term. It was God's will that it had been formed that way. I pointed out that children born anencephalic--without a central nervous system, or brain, can't control their breathing, can't usually regulate their body temperatures, usually have uncontrolled seizures, no swallowing reflex and other horrific problems. They mostly die minutes after birth, if not during the birth process itself. Few live a day or more. But, these dingbats would swear that life is so precious, that even a few minutes or hours of it were a gift from God that shouldn't be taken away. I don't think a baby like that could suffer pain since pain receptors are mostly in the brain, but what do I know? I just felt like decking them. A child like that, if it survived delivery, would be gasping for breath, freezing with cold and then burning alternately; having seizures, having pools of saliva choking it. What kind of precious gift is that?

[Thinkingabout]

31. And from these types of folks came the ignorance of Todd Akin

[Freddie]

32. Friend of a friend

Young marrieds, thrilled to be expecting first baby. About 4 months along routine ultrasound showed the same problem, doctor suggested she end the pregnancy. Fundie Baptist, the girl insisted on carrying the baby full term; I'm really not sure if for her convictions or to spare herself family disapproval. So for the whole pregnancy, as she got bigger, people would coo over her belly and fuss over her while she knew the baby would die soon after birth. I can't imagine going through such torture if I had a choice about it. She developed complications and almost died giving birth to a full term stillborn boy.
But she made her choice about this; can you imagine if you knew about the complication but had no choice? Or (chillingly evil) the doctor knew, but lied to you and said everything was fine?

[Rozlee]

33. Yeah, it was her choice.

Or maybe like you said, she might have felt pressured by fears of wrath from her family and others if she aborted. That would be a type of emotional blackmail that would be hard for many women to fight back against. The stigma of being called a murderess and baby-killer of your own child by your own family. They use guilt like a cudgel. That's practically what my relative was being called by those sanctimonious idiots. Never mind that the baby would die anyway. But, you never know. God works in mysterious ways. Whatever.

[winter is coming]

20. The impetus behind this is neither religious nor moral.

True, many conservative religious types are the foot soldiers in this war, but the fight against choice and contraception is about control, and not just of women. It's used as a wedge issue, to divide us against each other, draw people to the polls, and occupy space/effort in legislative bodies to make them "busy" while our crumbling infrastructure and shaky economy go unregarded. And families with more children have less time and financial resources to do anything but struggle to keep their heads above water.

IMO, the abortion/contraception controversy is about creating distraction and ever-more-desperate sheep.

[2naSalit]

22. I agree with your

well stated comment entirely though I would also add that it is also an underhanded guarantee for the medical industrial complex, all those life threatening birth defects mean billion$ when you can play on the emotions trying to "save" the lives of those who won't live long but for the unbelievable amounts of money that it takes to keep them breathing... usually at the expense of all the other children in the family and keeps the whole family poor. IMHO.

[winter is coming]

23. Agreed. n/t

[jwirr]

21. We should have recognized this long ago. There are many churches that are against abortion but not

birth control. But the Catholic Church has never been dishonest about what they were opposed to and that included birth control. What angers me the most is that these other churches seem to be letting the anti birth control people call the tune. We are going to have to educate all women into what is really going on. I am 71 years old and birth control was important to a lot of women even back then. We knew the consequences of not having it. We were asked to give our babies away or marry or try to raise them alone. It is a shame that we must fight this again.

[talkingmime]

24. Republicans are just jealous.

You can tell how many times a Republican has had sex by how many children they have (fewer times in the case of twins, triplets, etc).

[hunter]

25. The devil wants more souls.

Abortion and contraception disrupt the manufacturing process.

If people are making love and not making babies the devil gets cranky.

Would a guy who sells milk and veal give birth control pills to his cows? I think not.

There was, and may still be, a billboard in California's Conservative heartland that had a picture of a fetus and the message "This child was going to cure cancer. Abortion stops a beating heart."

Cynical me, I always figured to be fair and balanced they ought to have a billboard that says, "This child was going to be the next Hitler. Abortion stops a beating heart."

I was, in fact, tempted to make a pre-dawn expedition with my climbing gear, dark clothes, and a few cans of spray paint

For reasons that are entirely religious, I don't like abortion. But I recognize others have different religious or ethical foundations that are just as valid as my own so I do not oppose access to safe, unimpeded, and legal abortion.

I also think the best way to prevent abortions is early sex education and contraceptives. If kids know all about sex before the adolescent hormones kick in then they are less likely to get into trouble. It worked for me and my many siblings. It seems to be working for my kids. My parents, and my wife's parents, didn't figure it out until they had a couple more kids than they could comfortably support. But we always had enough food, lots of love, and a safe place to sleep, so it wasn't too bad...

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that the anti-abortion, anti-contraception religions want trouble. They see the fifteen year old scarlet letter girl carrying the preacher's secret love child as some kind of opportunity.... a three-for-the-price-of-one deal in the trading of souls.

[ZRT2209]

26. vagina nazis

[PDJane]

27. I think it's long past time we taught our children science.

Maybe then this lot wouldn't have any traction.

For starters, birth control doesn't cause an abortion.
Morning after pills do not cause abortions.
Ectopic pregnancies kill real living people, not potential people.
Abortions are a health issue for women, and that includes late-term abortions. Women don't get them for fun.

What the hell is wrong with these people? If this is the brand of bible you follow, it's time to toss it out and go to a science-based world, and that immediately.

[elleng]

28. Yes, of course,

essentially anti-sexual activity; known this for a long time.

[sendero]

29. It's about sex itself..

... and people who can't stand the fact that some of us are doing it and plenty!

[Kath1]

36. They assume women are using contraceptives for a "good time."

And I think most of those people are desperately in need of a real good "time", themselves! Maybe they could then chill out and get out of other people's business.