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erpowers

(9,350 posts)
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 12:40 PM Feb 2012

Did Suze Orman Give Bad Advice?

Last night Suze Orman appeared on the Piers Morgan Show. During the appearance a mother asked Orman if she (the mother) should send her son to a lower tier college that had offered him a full scholarship or to a higher tier college that had not offered him a full scholarship. After the the mother's question Orman asked the young man how he would fell if he left school with $20,000-$40,000 worth of debt. The young man answered that he would feel bad because he did not know how he would pay off the debt. Orman then told him he should go to the school that offered him a full scholarship.

That is bad advice. The young man should go to the school he likes best and has the program he likes best. If he did not want to be in debt after college he could just try to look up other scholarships and apply for grants. However, even if he were to graduate with debt he could get a job and pay off his debt in a number of years.

There were a number of questions Orman could have asked the mother and her son concerning the schools the young man was considering. She should have at least encouraged the mother and son to think about other questions regarding the different schools.



http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2012/02/01/piers-suze-orman-top-tips.cnn&hpt=pm_r1#/video/bestoftv/2012/02/01/piers-suze-private-school-is-wrong.cnn

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Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
1. That's not bad advice at all
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 12:45 PM
Feb 2012

Assuming the "lower-tier" school has a similar major program to whatever the "higher" one had....

It's NOT where you go, it's what you do with where you go...Something I wish I'd listened to (yes, you can tell I had this same dilemma as a high schooler and went the other way)

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
2. I watched it and thought it was great advice.
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 12:51 PM
Feb 2012

Hopefully things will be better by the time he graduates, but there's no guarantee "he could get a job and pay off his debt in a number of years."

I would tell my child to take the scholarship as well.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
4. Sounds like good advice to me.
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 12:53 PM
Feb 2012

Frankly, the quality of your education depends more on yourself than the school you attend. If you're motivated to learn, any college of any merit at all will help guide you to learning. If all you do in college is take courses and never go beyond those, you've wasted your money, no matter how good the college is supposed to be.

If you have a full scholarship somewhere, go there, and then get yourself educated.

renate

(13,776 posts)
5. sounds good to me
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 12:55 PM
Feb 2012

All these poor kids graduating with debt that's the equivalent of a down payment on a home, and right now they can only find jobs at Starbucks or moving furniture... I think she's right. You can work hard at a lower-tier school and come away with as good an education as many students who just poop around (I'm looking at you, W) at a top-tier school.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
6. good advise and depending on the "lower tier" college, the young man
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 12:59 PM
Feb 2012

may learn just as much. Some "higher tier" universities aren't all they are cracked up to be.
Also debt of 20 to 40 is really low. My daughter ended up with $80,000 for a public university.
I imagine the debt for a higher tier would be closer to 150,000

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
8. She gave excellent advice
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:03 PM
Feb 2012

Talk to some unemployed college graduates from "good schools" who are saddled up with debt and no "good" employment prospects.


There aren't many "good" jobs left in this country. Until that changes, her advice was absolutely correct.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
9. If any of my kids get a full scholarship somewhere, that's where they're going
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:03 PM
Feb 2012

Unless it's obviously the wrong choice for them.

I have three kids...the older one is only two years older than the other two (twins).

Response to erpowers (Original post)

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
11. "...if he were to graduate with debt he could get a job and pay off his debt in a number of years. "
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:18 PM
Feb 2012

That's what I thought when I went for my PhD. Didn't quite work out that way. I'm now in an "alternative career" earning much less than I had anticipated.

I suggest a re-reading of:
The Big Lie About the 'Life of the Mind'

A year ago, I wrote a column called "Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go," advising students that grad school is a bad idea unless they have no need to earn a living for themselves or anyone else, they are rich or connected (or partnered with someone who is), or they are earning a credential for a job they already hold.

In a March 2009 follow-up essay, I removed the category of people who are fortunately partnered because, as many readers wrote in to tell me, graduate school and the "two-body problem" often breaks up many seemingly stable relationships. You can't assume any partnership will withstand the strains of entry into the academic life.

Those columns won renewed attention last month from multiple Web sites, and have since attracted a lot of mail and online commentary. The responses tended to split into two categories: One said that I was overemphasizing the pragmatic aspects of graduate school at the expense of the "life of the mind" for its own sake. The other set of responses, and by far the more numerous, were from graduate students and adjuncts asking why no one had told them that their job prospects were so poor and wondering what they should do now.

I detected more than a little sanctimony and denial in most of the comments from the first group and a great deal of pain and disillusionment in the latter. The former seem used to being applauded by authorities; the latter seem to expect to be slapped down for raising questions. That's why they write to me, I believe. They want confirmation that something is wrong with higher education, that they have been lied to, systematically.

Some people have mistaken my position that graduate school in the humanities is fine for the rich and connected for the view that that's how it should be, as if I am some kind of smug elitist. It often happens that readers—looking only at an excerpt from a column—mistake practical advice about coping with a harsh reality for an affirmation of that reality, instead of a criticism of it.


--much more--
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Big-Lie-About-the-Life-of/63937/

My suggestions for anyone contemplating higher education:
1) Find out if the program and department are placing their graduates. If you hear something akin to "Well, higher education is about 'enlightenment' and not jobs," chances are the college isn't placing their graduates with regularity, because if they were, that would be the first selling point, i.e., "Placing our graduates? You bet we are!!!" Ask to see statistics.
2) Find out about "connections." Ask about mentoring and membership in academic societies where schmoozing and glad-handing can occur.
3) Ask to see credentials. Yeah, yeah, the department head has a PhD from "KickAss U" but find out if he or she belongs to any professional organizations, have attended any recent professional colloquia, published something other than an "article" based on their dissertation in a "professional" rag some 20 years earlier, etc. If not, chances are that person has just been sitting on their butt in their office looking at the retirement date circled on their calendar. They're worthless for establishing connections since he or she has done nothing of note and therefore "unkown" in the outside world.

Just a few suggestions...

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
12. very true
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:22 PM
Feb 2012

I'm essentially in my second "alternate" career after grad school, and am desperate for a new one...(and by "alternate" I mean "Career paths that had NOTHING to do with what I went to school for"

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
14. I hear ya!
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:30 PM
Feb 2012
"Career paths that had NOTHING to do with what I went to school for"

If you told me 20 years ago that I'd be doing what I'm doing now, I would have laughed. After all, I was embarking on a grand plan to earn a PhD!!!

I wasn't looking to become wealthy, but I sure as hell wanted to do something that I found interesting and challenging. It appears I satisfied half that expectation.

subterranean

(3,427 posts)
13. Not enough information to go on.
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:24 PM
Feb 2012

How "low" is the lower-tier college? Is it a school he wouldn't mind attending? Does it offer the programs he's interested in? The higher-tier colleges offered partial scholarships. How much did they offer? 20%? 80%? These questions would factor into the decision. I agree that Suze should have asked them for more details before giving her advice.

GermanDem

(168 posts)
16. This is actually not the issue.
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:40 PM
Feb 2012

What is important is how the kid FEELS about getting into debt for his education. There are people out there who cannot stand to be in debt, and the uncertainty makes them feel miserable. If he FEELS that he is going to be alright at the school he will get a scholarship from, then that's where he should go. People don't realize that money evokes feelings, and they need to be taken seriously, and they need to be taken into account when making decisions about money. That's Suze's mantra, and I personally think it is a good one.

subterranean

(3,427 posts)
18. I agree she made a good point there.
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:50 PM
Feb 2012

She said people should not do things with money that they feel uncomfortable with, and I think that's sound advice.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
17. A lot of other factors SHOULD have come into play than just cost,
Thu Feb 2, 2012, 01:49 PM
Feb 2012

his planned major or area of interest, location and cost of living at the school, but just because a person graduates from a "higher tier" school doesn't man he's going to get a better eduction in a specific major or be better able to pay back the loans.

It may or may not be good advice for the childs overall future, but from a financial standpoint it's not necessarily bad advice.

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