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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLabor Attorneys Agree: The Adria Richards Firing Will Be Hard to Defend
http://jezebel.com/5992247/labor-attorneys-agree-the-adria-richards-firing-will-be-hard-to-defendAccording to Bay Area attorneys queried by Mercury News, SendGrid's decision to fire Richards for tweeting a picture of two men sitting behind her at PyCon, snickering about "forking" and "dongles," may prove difficult to defend in court. A San Francisco labor attorney named Rob Pattison (so close!) explained that Richards' "public shaming" tweet was completely within bounds, and that there are measures in place to safeguard people like Richards who report workplace harassment:
It's a tough one. The law is strong in protecting people who make complaints of harassment, or who participate in an investigation about complaints of harassment.
Richards drew outsized ire from the tech community after she tweeted a picture of two tech bros who'd been treating PyCon like a middle school multi-purpose room assembly. The men subsequently lost their jobs, and Richards, who just a few days ago worked for SendGrid, lost her gig because none of the employers involved in this shit blizzard seem to have any sense of perspective. If SendGrid's CEO Jim Franklin had been in charge of the nuclear codes during the Cuban Missile Crisis, for instance, Orlando might be an irradiated wasteland instead of a magical simulacrum of Main Street U.S.A.
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Rex
(65,616 posts)For what exactly? Her twitter feed?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)and that she failed at that task.
Also, despite the quotation marks of shame, I don't think there's anything inherently silly about the idea, and the techs who have problems with them are usually the ones who are so horrible at soft skills and EQ to begin with that those sorts of jobs are necessary.
Rex
(65,616 posts)No suspension, just a pink slip and a, "have a nice day". SO, all those other times she was good at her job, this ONE time - which I guess caused the company some PR embarrassment? - and she is let go. Ya pretty weak. She should be happy OTOH, that she does not live in a Right to Work state.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)And the deluge of death threats. yeah.
Rex
(65,616 posts)
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That guy actually has people who have set up a kickstarter for him.
So now he gets to play victim AND have a cash fund to help find another job!?
Just...wow...that is so wrong in so many ways.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It would almost be heartwarming if it weren't so horrifying.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I wish we could clone you, Rex, and Greek Tragedy. 
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)I've had it all my life so it is impossible for me to miss it. I've worked with guys just like the one fired and only TWO woman in my entire career in IT (20 + years). It is beyond depressing.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)And it's what I hate most about my field
Rex
(65,616 posts)just to get away from the daily misogyny in the NOC.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I am a senior developer - top tier, blah, blah, blah. I had one "boss" who was so used to his co-workers being morons he actually tried to explain to me what a one-to-many relationship was. Seriously. My jaw was on the floor. At first I thought he was joking. I had already designed six different applications for the company that were being used, and provided him with table layouts as part of the documentation, and he was EXPLAINING one-to-many relationships to me as if they were a new concept.
Of course, this was a guy who also tried to "explain" that "Dept" was an abbreviation for "department" on a spreadsheet that *I* had originally designed, so the "man-splaining" (is that the new word?) shouldn't have come as a shock. I finally had to take him to the woodshed after he explained he wanted me to do some *real* IT stuff (after I had just found a way to prevent an HR SAP implementation that was ten years out of date from happening without the missing upgrade), and I finally exploded at him, including threatening to walk off the job. That discussion included me explaining to him that I had a spreadsheet of issues that needed to be resolved, and him suggesting I "make a spreadsheet of issues that need to be resolved" five minutes later, with me whacking him upside the head with the fact I had just TOLD him that I was doing that, so why was he trying to pretend it was his idea? Since I was also explaining to him that I wasn't going to do a major implementation "wrong" just because he didn't have a clue (I was pretty protective of my customers), the whole thing was a shock to his system as I am used to being excessively polite while some of the young bucks figure out what I am.
After that, we got along splendidly. Some folks just need to get hit with the brick of reality before they can toe the line of Obedience to Me - Lol! 
Rex
(65,616 posts)He sounds like one of the managers of the movie Office Space - like this one in particular;
When I worked for a large tele-communincations company I had two mid-managers try and steal my SCO-Unix scripts as their ideas and as if they wrote them and not me. My director was one of the founders or Solaris and knew they were my scripts and what was going on.
Thankfully I am now the boss...only took me 20 plus years lol.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)now known as "Global Crossing" back in ancient days.
I had to learn to put my name on the footers of documents I produced after I found out someone was taking credit for my work. (I got a new boss who was prepared to fire me because no one knew what I did - we started going over my stuff, and that was when I found out my Director was taking credit for everything I put out. Educational moment. Sigh.)
Yes, my man-splainer guy was amusing. The lesson learned was "sometimes, you *have* to whack them upside the head!" Lol!
Rex
(65,616 posts)Global Crossing was one of our big clients, so was PacBell and about 10 other big ones all around the nation. I cannot remember them all, this was around 2000. The company overall was awesome and I loved working for them. Sadly they almost went out of business and had to completely restructure the company in 2001.
I know what you mean - sometimes talking to a director or manager was like talking to a brick wall...I could have said, 'my office is full of eels and my hovercraft is on empty' and got a nod since they were way off in lala land thinking about who knows what.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)I run into you.
I had a wonderful woman named Helen who worked with me at a small company that wrote software for community banks. She was the best tech I ever worked with and someone I was glad never to get on the wrong side of, as she brooked no BS from men who thought her less than capable.
All but two of the programmers at the company were women, and we quickly learned that the sales rep was a nasty bully who berated and belittled them when he felt they weren't living up to his standards (he was technically clueless).
That shit STOPPED when Helen started working there. He came running into the office one day screaming at Helen that he had a customer who needed a new modem RIGHT NOW, and she needed to get out and install it. Helen had already spoken to the customer on the phone and walked them through the problem (HE had plugged both ends of the phone line into the modem) and she just rocked back in her chair, folded her arms and stared at him. He kept blustering on, and she crossed her legs and kept just looking at him with a slightly bemused expression, until finally he ran out of steam and just stood there.
I then told him that the matter had been taken care of earlier and what he had done wrong. He went red in the face, looked back at Helen who just continued to stare at him, mumbled an apology and slunk out of the room. From that day forward she made a point of labeling the phone lines "to modem" and "to wall" to remind him of the incident.
After that, he was the soul of politeness when dealing with her. And he would quickly cut off any tirade against the programmers, as Helen made a point of wandering into whatever office he was in when he was being an ass, and simply standing there quietly with that bemused look, like she was watching a five year old having a tantrum. He would become intimidated and slink away.
A highly recommend cultivating this tactic whenever a woman finds herself dealing with a complete dick.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)I am a female person who quit the I.T. field after nearly two decades because I was so fucking sick of it.
I was really good at what I did (IBM midrange systems engineer) and I got tired of working twice as hard to prove I was as good as the men (when in reality I could technically run circles around most of them).
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I wish we could clone you, Recursion, and Greek Tragedy.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts) 
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)and crazy hacker assholes, depending on the day and the story, around here.
Bradley Manning? Thank God For Anonymous!
Anonymous is taking down notorious child XXX websites? (I'm SURE they'll go after all the adult porn next, right?) Thank God For Anonymous!
Anonymous doesn't, actually, care about adult porn? Crazy hacker assholes! (Who could have seen that coming, given that they all came from 4chan?)
Anonymous is shining a bright light on rape apologia in Steubenville? Thank God For Anonymous!
Anonymous has no patience for some out of control social justice warrior making a federal fucking case out of a stupid "dongle" joke? CRAZY HACKER ASSHOLES!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)It's possible they were looking for a reason to fire her.
Just because someone has a point, or is right about an issue, doesn't make them a good representative of the cause, in fact, some people do more harm to a cause than good.
You might find this article worth reading:
Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost
Undermining other women who have worked hard to advance the cause of women in the work place is not going to help anyone. If the picture painted of her by those who have had the misfortune to work with her is correct, then this is not the kind of person women need representing them.
As for the legality of her firing, I guess it depends on the reasons. We, women in general, have all met women who use what is a legitimate issue for their own selfish reasons. Sort of like jumping on a bandwagon and destroying all the work done by more sincere, intelligent and yes, successful women. I often wonder if it is not their goal to do this.
Reading about this woman from those who worked with her and know her, I personally think the women's movement is far better off without them.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)those should be allies by her extreme actions.
Rex
(65,616 posts)You gotta be good at it all in the IT field and not just one aspect.
EDIT - That really goes for any job, now that I think about it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)dissing the woman fired to the extent of saying she did poorly in her job, when her reputation states the opposite.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)a blog that this amanda blum writes, all about the woman fired with very little info but her opinion to create an issue.
this is bullshit.
and again, sabrina found her side with the sexists, letting us know the woman fired behavior is inappropriate.
really, who is amanda blum?
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Until she decided to start tweeting about dudes behind her talking.
Apparently Amanda Blum is a blogger too, and someone who's worked in the field and behind the scenes at confabs where Adria Richards is invited to prattle on. Sounds like you didn't read her blog entry about it at all.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)
polly7
(20,582 posts)You need a new line.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Moreover, Adria responded to both situations in a fairly reasonable way. She was not overly aggressive or hostile. Rather, she explained her objections clearly and fairly. (I cannot say the same thing of the conference organizers.)
Amanda alleged a pattern behavior which, frankly, isn’t backed up in the post (at least not once you get past the high-level summary). And, interestingly, I also have yet to see someone else write up a similar set of issues. In fact, everything I see about people who have worked with her is fairly positive. Maybe there are a bunch of other stories lurking in the background, but I haven’t seen them: not from Amanda and not from other people.
Regardless, whether Adria has a pattern of behavior like at PyCon, it does not justify how the angry mobs of the internet handled it. We should speak up and have rational discussions about these issues; that is valuable. It is perfectly okay to object to how Adria handled the situation.
http://www.technologywoman.com/2013/03/24/digging-beneath-the-surface-that-amanda-blum-article-on-adria-richards-is-not-what-it-seems/
polly7
(20,582 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Moreover, Adria responded to both situations in a fairly reasonable way. She was not overly aggressive or hostile. Rather, she explained her objections clearly and fairly. (I cannot say the same thing of the conference organizers.)
Amanda alleged a pattern behavior which, frankly, isn’t backed up in the post (at least not once you get past the high-level summary). And, interestingly, I also have yet to see someone else write up a similar set of issues. In fact, everything I see about people who have worked with her is fairly positive. Maybe there are a bunch of other stories lurking in the background, but I haven’t seen them: not from Amanda and not from other people.
Regardless, whether Adria has a pattern of behavior like at PyCon, it does not justify how the angry mobs of the internet handled it. We should speak up and have rational discussions about these issues; that is valuable. It is perfectly okay to object to how Adria handled the situation.
http://www.technologywoman.com/2013/03/24/digging-beneath-the-surface-that-amanda-blum-article-on-adria-richards-is-not-what-it-seems/
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)that she was horrified by the reactions on all sides.
This woman got a father of three children fired because she chose to be offended by a word. She did NOT handle it appropriately, she went to twitter, with photos of two people and wrongly identified them to make matters even worse. She overheard a bad joke and made a federal case out of it. THIS is why the women's movement is not taken seriously anymore, and it pisses ME off royally that people like her put themselves out there claiming they represent women. THEY DO NOT. Most of us can handle a bad joke. We don't get offended , and you need to face that. In real life most women are offended by THINGS THAT MATTER.
SHE went to the mob on Twitter and on her blog with something that most of us are far too mature and strong, to be bothered about, she was hoping the mob would come down hard on the men she photographed WITHOUT their permission which I think is illegal also in some states. The mob was ready as it always is and it turned on her.
If she was a responsible person, she would have known that when you go to twitter with nonsense like that, when you get a father of three fired for something so trivial, you are literally begging for what happened.
Irresponsible, childish, vindictive, and it cost someone their job and harmed a whole family. No one is going to be sympathic to that kind of extremism. And then it cost her her job.
ALL OF THIS was PREDICTABLE to anyone with half a brain cell functioning. If you don't want to stir up a mob, do not go to twitter!! That is where mobs congregate! She wanted the mob to go after those men. Women do not need this kind of irresponsible person claiming to represent them . She does not. But unfortunately now the anti-feminists will insist that she does.
Sometimes I truly believe these moronic individuals are working against women.
There are no excuses for what she did. If you don't want a reaction from a mob, it's simple, most adults understand this simple concept, DO NOT ROUSE UP a mob! Don't walk into a burning building if you do not want to get burned. How difficult IS that to understand?
Sick to death of what is being done to women by these self-professed 'feminists'.
And now that she got what she wanted why the whining? Strong women can deal with the consequences of their actions. There are no excuses for a grown woman to act the way she did. None, nor for any grown man either. As for the viciousness of the responses, well, is she so naive she did not ever see this happen before, did not think it would end that way? Please, now we women have to deal with the Rush Limbaugh ditto heads accusing ALL of us of hating men and wanting to get them fired and destroying children etc etc.
Thanks a lot to her and her defenders. She was out of line period. Protecting and trying to defend such idiocy only confirms what has gone wrong with the women's movement today.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)balanced. I agree with her completely on how women lose as a result of extremists misrepresenting their interests. She is absolutely correct about that. She is also correct in her abhorrence for the nastiness of online mobs regardless of which 'side' they are on.
She presented people who knew this woman, worked with her, and so far no one has proven them wrong. Although it was no surprise to read a little of her history with co-workers. Her actions in this case told me all I needed to know about her.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Tech has always been a fairly brutal meritocracy. Those who can, do. Those who can't get drop kicked out the door.
I was personally in a meeting a few months ago when the lead announced that the next project would be written in .Net MVC. When the existing MS platform developers (some of whom have been with the company a decade) complained that they didn't know MVC, the lead responded with a 100% serious "Wow, you guys are ready for retirement already huh? I guess I can go hire some new MVC developers then."
Every programmer in that room spent the next week learning and mastering MVC on their own time.
Love it or hate it, that's simply how much of the IT industry works. You don't get a lot of second chances. Two of the guys in that room ended up getting "let go" anyway because their MVC skills weren't up to par when the actual coding started. They couldn't meet their deadlines and were replaced. The good work they'd done in the past meant nothing when they couldn't meet the requirements of their CURRENT project.
This lady just learned that the hard way. She may have done good work in the past, but the moment she eliminated her ability to deal with the developers she was hired to evangelize, she could no longer meet the jobs requirements and was shown the door.
Rex
(65,616 posts)You have to know a lot about everything, not just a little bit about one or two apps. And if you WROTE the software for the company you work for and they change platforms - better know the new platform BEFORE the change! Doesn't matter of you wrote the entire source code for the soon to be legacy - your job is on the LINE to write the new code and get it RIGHT.
I sometimes forget how brutal it is, because I've been the boss for 3 years now.
CrispyQ
(36,478 posts)I've been freelance for three years & the thing I miss most is bouncing ideas off other developers. Also, hearing what they're into. I started networking with developer Meetup groups & have discovered just how much I've fallen behind. I spend my weekend & extra time doing code tutorials. Fortunately, I like it. But it will be nice when I feel I can back off a bit.
unblock
(52,253 posts)certainly what the original people did was inappropriate, and they admitted as much, and got fired, which most likely is exactly what they deserved.
but witnessing or being even being the victim of wrongdoing doesn't legally entitle you to do unconditionally anything that comes to mind in order to address the situation, and it seems to me there were more discreet channels that could have been pursued.
to be clear, from a *moral* perspective, i certainly would have hoped that her employer would have stood by her and allowed her to make what they regard as a mistake which they could have characterized as minor in comparison to the greater mistake created by the original harassment (e.g., hopefully this never happens again but if it ever does, please just call their employer and/or let our human resources department handle it, we're behind you 100% and happy to get harassers fired but we'd like to do it in a way that doesn't distracting media attention.)
my wondering is really just on the legal question. i suspect the employer does have the legal right to dismiss her if she handled it inappropriately even if she did have the right to handle it.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)She can't have it both ways, I suspect.
You can't, on one hand, claim "work place issue", and on the other hand, claim your right to report when your "report" included a shit-storm causing tweet that embarrassed her own employer.
She can claim 1st amendment I suppose. But she doesn't have 1st amendment protections where her employer is concerned.
The writer seems to be a bit biased. The first person to go "nuclear" was Richards with her tweet.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)unprofessional at worst, but that is it. Should they be publicly shamed? A dongle joke? Come on, I am a woman and this
is ridiculous. If they were referring to her, commenting about her that would be different. Act like a grown woman, turn around
and tell them to knock it off if you so offended by their conversation.
unblock
(52,253 posts)when you go to a public conference you are also acting as an ambassador for your company, and if you represent your company poorly you can easily cause more damage in a moment than the good you do all year.
to my mind the situation is far more severe than in a workplace where you might have offended only a few co-workers. in that situation, you can give warnings, sensitivity training, etc. the offended co-workers can see the offender is being punished, see that management is (hopefully) responding appropriately, etc.
in the conference situation, the damage to the image may be dramatic and widespread, and there's little the company can do other than firing the offender that the offended public can see as being appropriate. people outside a company aren't easily satisfied by anything short of a firing.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)opinion, no. I was more offended that she posted their picture on twitter. I was offended that she didn't attempt to stop them
with a subtle comment of excuse me with the death stare.
They were representing their companies, but they were making private jokes between themselves and were overheard.
Dongle and forking are funny words. I feel like anyone could have been in that situation if they were attending the conference with a friend. I don't like all of the video camera's going up in public places, or the idea of google glasses where anyone could be put on you tube without their express permission. I certainly do not like the idea of this type of public shaming.
These guys deserved to be written up, and she deserved a conversation on judgment. Her job requires her to be a liaison. Who would want to work with her? Judgment goes both ways and she is not liking it that the shoe is on the other foot.
Malik Agar
(102 posts)Tech is a male dominated industry and if the people that you are working with are scared that they will get fired for making even the slightest joke around you then you are going to have a very difficult time accomplishing anything. If you were the company and had a choice between firing her or retaining her and losing business, what would you do?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Personally I wouldn't have fired either of them.
Malik Agar
(102 posts)The two men would've received sensitivity training at worst, but she went on social media and got people riled up about it. She created the mob mentality and it turned on her in the end.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Or is that verboten now too? Sorry, I apparently keep missing these memos.
Malik Agar
(102 posts)I've never seen it... 
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I don't know if the ratio of the right line to the dropped line on the unit circle can be misspelled or not.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Up until that point. Then she became a pariah.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)dballance
(5,756 posts)I wanted to pose the question but was afraid I'd get flamed because it would get twisted into the meme I was asking if she is a "bitch."
I'm not surprised to see the blog from Amanda Blum about Richards' actions with regard to speaking at a conference and the actions Richards took. Perhaps Richards, like so many people, has a problem with conflict and that's why she never spoke to the guys at PyCon. And why she never spoke to Ms. Blum about being offended by another presentation at the conference at which she was supposed to speak. It wouldn't be all that unusual for someone who has conflict issues to use the back-door methods Richards uses to complain in a faceless manner.
Note, only one of the guys from Play Haven got canned. My real thought about what happened here is very, very, poor management. I suspect the one guy who got canned from Play Haven already had some issues with the company that perhaps his management had not properly addressed over time, through reviews and this was a good excuse to get rid of him. So too, with Richards. I suspect Richards is a difficult person to work with and this was good excuse for her management to cut her loose. Again, I would bet if that is the case it's because Richards' management had not been giving appropriate feedback and reviews and saw this as a life-line.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)where none existed.
dballance
(5,756 posts)Perhaps it's her way of generating traffic to her blogs.
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)Think women in male dominated fields are happy with is shit? It's not just in tech. If I cared to look, I could find multiple examples of women speaking up about this kind of this in different male dominated areas. On blogs, twitter and elsewhere.
I don't work in a male dominated field, and this behavior wouldn't fly at all, not for men OR women. That's because of good anti-harassment policies, as well as good union support of them.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Bullshit. Obviously you weren't afraid of shit cuz you just came right out and said it.
But hey, the boys club mentality is so pervasive that a jury let this stand 1-5. I'd like to think it was the use of scare quotes and italics that swayed the jury, but one went so far as to tell women to just get over it. Fuck that noise. Maybe folks should get over their unwillingness to dig through their vocabulary for words that aren't sexist or misogynistic.
dballance
(5,756 posts)I fail to see how you've done anything other than to confirm what I said in my first post.
I also fail to see how you can conclude a 1-5 jury finding in favor of leaving my post is part of the "boys[sic] club mentality." You don't have the foggiest clue as to the gender of the jury members.
Alerting on my post was a waste of the jury system's time and effort. There was nothing in there that violated TOS or community standards. The use of the "scary" quotes by me was to ensure people understood I was not calling Richards a "bitch" but was afraid I'd be accused of it. It seems like 5 out of 6 people understood that. It seems like you did not.
My post was fair and based on a post from female bloggers and my experience in business where I observed poor management practices. It was Amanda Blum who pointed out Ms. Richards is not the easiest person with whom to work and gave explicit and detailed examples.
Thanks for playing.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)got you by a jury. You basically did exactly what you say you didn't do by including the word to begin with. Completely unfuckingnecessary.
Here is part of your "boys club mentality" via juror #1:
I don't have to "Get over it already FFS." And I will speak out anytime I want to on the matter. I don't mind getting attacked for (my "venomous post"
encouraging people to dig down into their vocabulary for words that haven't been used to hurt others. Too bad if that's what you find offensive.
dballance
(5,756 posts)Did anyone else comment?
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)dballance
(5,756 posts)I have reflected on my post. Yeah, some of us do re-read them.
You are absolutely right. While I did not use the term "bitch" in my original post as a descriptor you are absolutely right to make the point I said it even while using those evil quotes. I'm sure there was a way I could have presented the story without resorting to such useless terms.
D
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I appreciate this post more than you can imagine. It takes a lot of character to reflect and come to a better understanding. I wish more of these "arguments" ended on a positive note. I have to say I was a little surprised and a lot impressed with you taking the time to make this comment.
Thank you.
dballance
(5,756 posts)I do angst and ruminate about what I post online as my opinions. You can see that I have been around DU for some time but I don't have a post count in very high numbers. I try to reserve comments to where they are appropriate.
More recently, I have tried to be thoughtful and considerate of others' opinions when I post. I have tried to not start a flaming war with others because it serves no purpose.
Rex
(65,616 posts)After reading more about her I can see she had problems with conflict resolution and to what level they need to be elevated to - that maybe why she got fired.
EDIT - still, the death threats against her are unacceptable and should be investigated.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)There are a lot of idiots and crazy people on the internet.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)The guy who sent the 'when I'm done' pic was possibly identified. Haven't seen anyone talking about that here.
Nope. Just more and more and more comments how mean and awful she is for tweeting a pic of some bros.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Some, that I worked with, were so intolerable of women working in the IT field that I would label them as 'women haters'.
Also, where is her starter fund?
I will admit - it is embarrassing to be in a field of work so dominated by male chauvinist pigs.
I hear the field of engineering is the same way, very anti-woman.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)she met her once. why now are we all holding this blog up as proof of anything?
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)the patriarchy must be behind this.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)we give her credit for shit.
looks like a person that wanted to weigh in on a side and started a blog to specifically diss the woman.
and we hold it up as proof of something.
bullshit.
you put the link up like it means something.
i am asking. who is amanda blum and why should anyone listen to her.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Unbelievable... I thought I'd seen everything.
Fucking hell. Thank you for pointing out that that one blog post trashing Adria was the sole post on and reason for this "blog". I hope Adria can document that even one line isn't true.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Moreover, Adria responded to both situations in a fairly reasonable way. She was not overly aggressive or hostile. Rather, she explained her objections clearly and fairly. (I cannot say the same thing of the conference organizers.)
Amanda alleged a pattern behavior which, frankly, isn’t backed up in the post (at least not once you get past the high-level summary). And, interestingly, I also have yet to see someone else write up a similar set of issues. In fact, everything I see about people who have worked with her is fairly positive. Maybe there are a bunch of other stories lurking in the background, but I haven’t seen them: not from Amanda and not from other people.
Regardless, whether Adria has a pattern of behavior like at PyCon, it does not justify how the angry mobs of the internet handled it. We should speak up and have rational discussions about these issues; that is valuable. It is perfectly okay to object to how Adria handled the situation.
http://www.technologywoman.com/2013/03/24/digging-beneath-the-surface-that-amanda-blum-article-on-adria-richards-is-not-what-it-seems/
unblock
(52,253 posts)and then fired her.
companies of course want to pre-empt that, but firing someone for losing business is far more defensible than firing someone for doing something that you *think* might make you lose business.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"When people in your indsutry (sic) are scared to work with you..."
As long as my co-workers are efficient at their job and maintain professionalism, their demeanor, regardless of how unpleasant has zero effect on my work... or the annual reviews I write for them.
Personalities, as long as they do not directly prevent me from my departments daily, weekly, and monthly goals are irrelevant to me and to my work.
For me to cast my own failures on the irrelevant behavior of others, regardless of how abrasive they may be would be a sincerely chicken-shit thing for me to do.
theKed
(1,235 posts)There was also the penis joke on her twitter feed which is ostensibly a "workspace" for her. I haven't seen any actual reports of a reason for what her company gave her for reasons.
I don't think either one should have been fired, frankly, and this whole thing went way out of proportion to the actions.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)She couldn't, and probably can't, work anywhere that has a website now. They hacked SendGrid's client list and hacked them too, so no business in their right mind would ever hire them again.
The alternative to firing her was to go out of business.
It doesn't help that she comes across as such an asshole that she's probably unemployable now.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)She'll have a job in a week; so will the unnamed dick-joker.
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)Grown ups deal with other grown ups when there is a problem....
Petulant children cry for attention when they are slighted.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)to recognize that men have a God given right to sit around making sexist jokes, even if the EEOC says otherwise.
I have to wonder how some here manage to keep a job.
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)Her career has taken a serious hit because she has shown herself to be unable to work well with others.
Instead of telling the guy that his joke was inappropriate like a real grown up would, she has to plaster it out there for the world and beg for attention and validation. This isn't even the first time so she can't claim that she was just having a bad day.
She now has a reputation and she is going to have to live with it.
Well, now everyone knows that she can't interact like a real adult or co-worker and I don't know why anyone would want to work with her. Why would you, as a business owner, choose to hire someone who has shown themselves to be a) highly sensitive b) unable to come to a solution at the lowest level possible and c) desperately seems to need attention?
I wouldn't...
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)like the guy telling penis jokes? Is that what you consider adult behavior?
Adjusting to the kind of attitude you consider normal is a good way for a company to be sued out of existence, which is why the behavior you consider acceptable is prohibited in any workplace that receives federal funding or doesn't want to be subject to lawsuits for discriminatory practices. But don't let a little thing like the law or equal rights influence your views. This is only the 21st century. Can you believe they gave them the right to vote? Next thing you know those uppity women will be expecting equal pay. What is the world coming to?
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)divided the tech community. ... she was supposed to be working to unite. That was her job. She won't be able to do that anymore.
But yes, she will probably get a job in her field doing something else. A supporter may find it advantageous to bring her on board. The tech field has plenty of assholes, so her being an asshole really should not be an excuse to not hire a talented person. Even a talented asshole can find employment and often does so with great aplomb.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)raped three times at the convention? She's even worse. She wasn't content to tweet something a moron said in public. She filed criminal charges. The fucking nerve of women to think they have rights. They showed her. Now they have threatened to rape and kill Richards. A community like that shouldn't be divided under any circumstances. They enforce their dominance through shaming, threats of rape and murder, and even rape itself. And naturally men all over America are contributing financially through Kickstarter.
I guess it's too much to expect any sense of conscience or decency. I never understood just how much hatred of women there was in this country and on this site before this incident.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Have you responded to the incorrect post?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)You focus on Richards as somehow evil for daring to expose to the public what this guy was doing in public. You show yourself entirely unconcerned with the backlash against her. This entire incident is all about male domination, circling the wagons to protect men at all cost, and threatening women with physical injury if they dare expose to the public what men in that tech community do in their public workplaces.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Even the rational elements you type are drowned in a torrent of toxicity.
Threats too are toxic, but they are not shields against who she is and what she's done.
And your anger is not a shield against reality.
Nor will your next paragraph on oppression or something similar, be a shield against the full reality of the Adria Richards/PyCon event.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)That she exposed stupid jokes by men, which you feel they are somehow entitled to make, even though the law says otherwise? What about the toxicity of a work culture that creates that sort of behavior, that creates a hostile work environment for women and people of color, and that goes so far as to rape women on a regular basis? You really see nothing problematic in that? The toxicity is that I dare speak about it, just like Richards dare exposed what was happening in front of her?
So EEOC law is toxic. Is the 14th amendment also toxic?
What you see as reality is an unyielding determination that white male privilege remain unchallenged at all costs.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Which is fine, because I see an on-going free-form monologue about everyone, and what they're all about, as well as what they are on-about.
Same with any helpful and recently minted sock-puppet, from the looks of it.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I understand you adamantly resist all efforts to explore the broader issue here, so I'll keep it simple. If what the guy said was no big deal, why is Richards's tweeting it such a travesty?
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)nebenaube
(3,496 posts)So many hacks...
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Ridiculous article.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)It does not mean libel or defamation of character. Even though the claim was partially true, she deliberately published their crime with photo (taken without their permission) in order to cause him harm. There is no way she could not have realized it would cause him harm.
I'm a woman, I have been seriously sexually harassed in the workplace (as in stalked) and had to deal with my share of sexism and discrimination.
I sure as hell wouldn't want her as my co-worker.
Mopar151
(9,985 posts)I've worked with people like this prissy, manipulative workplace cancer. As I said in an earlier post, she did this for sport, because she could.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)If someone can't respect that, he doesn't deserve a job, period. Calling women prissy and manipulative signals contempt for women, as in another forum where you denounced all the women you work with.
Mopar151
(9,985 posts)And you're making up things about my posts, and therefore, me, out of thin f'ing air. Give it a rest.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)
patrice
(47,992 posts)
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)I've worked with my share of passive-aggressive hypocritical drama queens who are always the victim of something, bullying people to get their own way.
I don't get why one of the guys was fired....they weren't talking to her or about her or about any one, just making a dumb joke.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)Over a stupid joke?
Overkill, imo.
JVS
(61,935 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)She tweeted the picture so the event staff could tell who she was talking about
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)She tweeted it to her blog audience..
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I didn't realize we've all been using the Internet wrong for so long
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)... And not claim that she was trying to report it to management. That would involve a phone call or an email.
She was trying to shame them and get attention for herself, just as you do when you post a misspelled sign.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Melon_Lord
(105 posts)She tweeted the picture so the event staff could tell who she was talking about
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)but it is not saying she reported it to management. The words aren't even similar, and no management is involved.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)The next tweet was "Row whatever on the right side of the auditorium"
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)That's like saying I emailed everyone in the company address book to tell Bob in HR that Frank ate my snacks in the break room.
Trivial offense, one person who actually maybe needed to know and 9,000 others who now judge Frank.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What's the point of moral opprobrium if it's somehow wrong to use it. Millions of tech people now know making dick jokes at a con can get you shamed and fired. That's a feature, not a bug.
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)However, we as the masses, reserve the right to think that it is petty, childish and says more about you than it does about him that you need to make such a big god damn deal about it.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)doesn't say anything about Frank eating snacks but it does prohibit a hostile work environment. Because an employer can't be sued over Frank's eating Recursion's lunch, but it can be sued over work environments that are hostile to women and people of color.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)If she could tweet the photo, she could have emailed it privately. But the fact is the event staff was physically present, so she could have simply shown it to them on her gadget.
The event staff discussed the incident directly with the man in question. He apologized and he stopped. Her nightmare of having to listen to offensive jokes was over.
And as I wrote above, I've been through real sexual harassment, as in stalked and harassed by a co-walker. And I've witnessed real sexual harassment of other female employees by managers who wanted to fuck them.
I have zero tolerance for little miss prisses who actually make it that much harder for those of us who have been actually, seriously harassed.
Most recently, my complaint was *not* taken seriously, I was ignored, almost punished, and the perpetrator continued stalking me around the hospital for months with impunity. The situation peaked with him shoving me around the chemistry lab when I was alone one night, with 3 critically ill patients I was running tests and trying to report results on.
I can't imagine why management didn't take my complaint seriously, except that they've probably had so many little miss priss drama queens playing stupid games for so long it didn't occur to them that in this case there really was a serious situation going on when they weren't there to see.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)... refrain from telling their twitter followers if they think you're an ass.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Intent matters, and by deliberately and unnecessarily publishing his photo without his permission and maligning him publicly, she damaged his potential employment.
Furthermore, frivolous complaints by women who behave like asses make it that much harder for those of us who actually are being sexually harassed to be taken seriously, even when people's lives are literally at stake.
Not to mention that her lack of discretion in handling what she perceived as harassment or whatever didn't exactly fit with her job title of "engineer evangelist."
I certainly wouldn't want to work with her. I've had enough real damage done to my life by such asses.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)when she's a pretentious asshole who cares about no one but herself. "Rights" work both ways, you know?
Pisces
(5,599 posts)posted on twitter or Facebook. I would be livid if I was having a personal exchange with a friend, only to overheard and then publicly shamed. Ridiculous behavior. All parties acting like 12 yr. olds. Act like a grown woman, turn around and tell them to
knock it off.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)online without their permission, who did not even know that photo existed and to use it to rouse up an angry mob?? It was a shameful thing to do. His three children will probably never forget 'feminism'. Too bad these are the people representing women,or claiming to now.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Classy.
Your logic fail is blaming them for your employer's lax standards and shitty enforcement.
Nice job directing your ire where it doesn't belong. And with such non sexist terms too. Be proud.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That's what pisses me off about this: this entitled sense of having some right to make crude jokes in public because that's just how "tech" is. (And, yes, I'm pissed at her for making a dick joke while tweeting from the conference, too.)
Tech really, really needs to grow up.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Dumbed down standards for everyone! Huzzah!
I think she overreacted, but this 'she's ruining feminism!' bullshit is just that. A stupid attempt to derail.
Lots of activists of all kinds fuck up. Lots. That doesn't translate to 'well, just a little beavis and buddheaddery in professional environments is ok and if you disagree you're a miss prissy prissy drama queen'
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)All she had to do was follow normal protocol.
Her own behavior shows she wasn't truly offended by their jokes. It also shows a sense of entitlement in taking her case to the world instead of letting management deal with it, accepting the apology and moving on.
I'm not pissed at her. I'm glad she got fired. Broadcasting to the world that the tech world is filled with juvenile asses, both male and female, is hardly doing her job as an "engineer evangelist." 
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Your mention of the 'hotgirlatcon' hashtag makes me wonder.
Why should sexist behavior be dealt with gently and quietly? Who learns from that? A handful of people, maybe. With only one complaint it is easier for the few involved to dismiss the opinion as an outlier (oh, its just a few 'prissy prudes' who think that)
With the public shaming, these instances of sexist shitbaggery can't be so easily dismissed, and more people have a chance to adjust their personal understanding about what people should be expected to tolerate.
I'm sure they'll still be insulted for it... but... Idiocracy.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)going to publicly shame anyone who offends us? I have small children and have had several run ins in public places with foul language and inappropriate content. I have never had a problem engaging the parties and giving them the look or telling them that there were small ears within hearing range. It has been sufficient, and at no time did I think i should take their photo and blast it out onto the internet with negative commentary.
I don't know why more people aren't angry about the lack of privacy. Now anyone can post your picture or video without permission and send it out with negative information that could get you fired. This is very concerning to me.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)that they can ignore correct protocol in reporting what is in the overall scheme of things a relatively minor incident, leading to excess punishment of the so-called harasser, are drama queens and Miss Prisses. I don't care if they're male or female. Some may call them asses, I call them Little Miss Prisses (or Little Mr. Prigs) because they think they are so very speshul.
I have worked with them before. This time it was supposed sexual harassment. In other situations it's been other invented nonsense by co-workers, which I've both experienced and witnessed against others when some ass or other was trying to get ahead by walking all over everybody around them.
In her case, her behavior was antithetical to her job, which is likely why she was fired. And because that sort of behavior is absolutely toxic to the work environment she's going to have a heck of a time getting hired.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)to deal with issues. Not the issues they find worth addressing.
Yeah, that makes all kinds of sense.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I have no idea what your post means, other than you've run out of anything worth reading. Have a nice day.
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)... and something that could have been easily handled between two adults in about 10 seconds.
The draw of the story is that she chose to escalate it to the public for her own benefit and now it has come back to bite her.
Everyone likes a story where karma catches up with someone who deserves it.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)
because she deserved it. Women need to recognize that work places exist for men to tell dirty jokes, not for people to actually work. Unless uppity women recognize the fact they shouldn't be allowed to work at all. Who cares what labor law says?
People may not get the karma they deserve, but one thing is certain is they wouldn't recognize it as such at the time. That would require more a conscience and some self-awareness.
Melon_Lord
(105 posts)... you let me know.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)and sending images of decapitated women are all totally acceptable. That's just good- natured retaliation at a little miss priss who obviously deserved it. As, evidently, did the priss who was raped three times within a year at engineering conferences. They sure those little miss prisses how to stay in their place.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I said I was glad she was *fired* from her job, which likely was for doing a bad job as "engineer evangelist."
Nowhere did I say threats of rape or death threats, nor actual rape, were acceptable behavior. Those should be punishable as serious crimes, and hopefully such actions will be tracked to those responsible and those responsible will be lawfully punished.
Another one who is welcomed to my ignore party.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...the person complaining was right or wrong
regards
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)ZOB
(151 posts)...and we didn't run to the "grownups" to solve problems.
Yeah, the guys involved were a little juvenile. But geeks being juvenile is actually kinda a step in the right direction in a general sense.
Richards, on the other hand, apparently combined a misunderstanding of geekspeak with her own gender-biased moral compass and publicly outed them. This causes two problems (which anybody even slightly connected to business should find obvious). She decided not to handle the issue at the lowest possible level. She further took the issue public, involving her employer...and she did it as a member of a group with unlimited potential to screw with anybody's electronic business.
As an employer, regardless of my degree of sympathy for her claims, I'd fire her on the spot. She made herself a target in a community of web snipers and her employer and their clients WILL suffer the consequences of her choice to handle things in the manner she did.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)She deployed her "own gender based moral compass" by tweeting something she saw in front of her and thus publicly outing them, that in no way reflected their own gender-based moral compass by making such comments in PUBLIC, while your own denunciation of Richards has nothing to do with your own gender-based moral compass?
So the only gender-based moral compass that is unacceptable is the female kind. The male gender-based moral compass is the norm.
patrice
(47,992 posts)anecdote were reversed.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I doubt anybody would have noticed
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I don't know enough about the situation or people involved. What interests me is the broader public reaction. The fact that the situation wasn't reversed is in fact the point. She is evil BECAUSE she is a woman who supposedly "told on a man" and got him fired. Only she didn't report him to the conference organizers or her employers. She tweeted about the BS she saw. But this is used as a parable for evil women infringing on men's God given rights to spend their work time telling crude jokes. The inhumanity of it all.
If someone were to re-tweet one of her tweets that's being complained about, and she got fired, we would not be seeing this uproar. We probably would never even hear about it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)"Tell on a man" would be to complain to the man, the event organizers, or the man's boss(es).
She screamed from the mountaintops. As step 1 in resolving the conflict.
That's not the appropriate way to handle the situation. Screaming from the mountaintops is what you do after trying other avenues and not getting an adequate response.
The problem this causes for her job is her job was public relations from a technical angle. And by leaping to the "scream through a megaphone" step, she destroyed her ability to do that job - she pissed off a lot of people by taking the issue public, especially with the "naughty" jokes in her history.
Does it deserve death threads and other stupidity directed at her or her company? No. But those insane morons are not her boss nor called upon by her boss.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)It may not have been the appropriate way. Considering I never tweet, I certainly wouldn't have done that. But as I said, I think the real issue here is the public reaction that focuses entirely on vilifying her, excusing the man's behavior, and insisting the ensuing threats are irrelevant. It says a great deal about our current society.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)There's a small minority of misogynist control freaks who are very upset, and doing things that should send them to jail.
Most people look at the situation and decide they don't want to work with someone who will explode minor annoyances into the equivalent of front-page-above-the-fold headlines. That's true regardless of the person's gender - I've had male coworkers behave similarly and have made a point to avoid working with them ever again.
Thus she lost her job over it - not because men were working against her, but because people would not want to work with her, and her job was public relations. A field where she needs everyone to want to work with her.
Sorry, but no.
The man's behavior was a relatively minor affront that should have resulted in a reprimand of some sort. The problem is she took that minor affront and tried to blow it up into an enormous insult, in the same workplace where she's been making graphic penis jokes. Then she started comparing herself to Joan of Arc.
So yes, the man was wrong. She was too. But she isn't some sort of passive flower upon which vile people are acting. She's worked quite hard at escalating the situation. That behavior is why she's not being treated nicely by "society".
Which, to be clear, does not justify making any threats or causing her physical harm.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)than others. The vilification of her is far more widespread than I could have possibly imagined before this event. I still have to wonder, however, if what the guy said was no big deal, why is tweeting it such a travesty? He made the comment in public and she repeated on twitter. Shouting or not, it was the same comment.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Thus not making it just "saying the same thing in public", but the event where she started blowing it out of proportion.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)that is not blowing anything out of proportion. that is calling out sexist bullshit that is not allowed in that environment.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The appropriate response would be to talk to the offending man. If she felt uncomfortable doing that, the next appropriate response is to talk to her boss or the management at the man's company.
Instead, she did the equivalent of holding a press conference with Gloria Alred by her side as her first response. That should have been many, many steps down the road.
In addition, her claims of offense at "sexist bullshit" are somewhat undermined by her own graphic jokes in her work environment - if something as mild as a dongle joke is so offensive, why are her penis jokes OK?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is inappropriate is really gonna listen to a woman telling him to knock it off. that happens ALL the time on du. men KNOW what they are doing, they KNOW it is offensive to women and that is the point of them having a good ole jolly laugh. women know this. companies know this. that is why they have a policy that this is not allowed. the whole purpose is for a man to make the environment hostile to women. so.... suggesting she mention it kindly with a pleasant tone to the good ole boys is bullshit.
she tweeted, ... not cool.
that was it.
like i would go on a thread here on du when a man does the same thing and say
not cool.
and wow, will the men and some women jump on that as OUTRAGE, ranting AND raving. man hater, you, man hater.
so
meh
i am so not buying this garbage and hope she sues the companies ass off.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Which is why she might have chosen the "talk to his boss or her boss" options.
Because that's the only option I gave her, right?
Oh wait....there were other options before "go public". Not only that, but there was no requirement that she be pleasant while telling the guy to knock it off.
Damn, there goes that argument. But I expect you'll be back insisting that guys like me would demand she be pleasant despite not saying so.
FYI, she'd lose.
Not because there's a secretive good-ol-boy network out to maintain a hostile work environment. But because her job was public relations, and this incident demonstrated she can't do that well....and the incident brought to light her own inappropriate-in-the-workplace jokes.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)geeez.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)There's 'naughty' jokes on her twitter feed, which is part of her work - her job was essentially public relations.
Little tough to claim harassment over a joke you overheard when you've been making penis jokes "at work".
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)FIRED
Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)of twitter followers isn't considered reporting it to management. They frown on that kind of thing.
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)This is a classic example of divide and conquer the work force to make sure management gets to do what ever it wants to do. Wake the hell up people. I thought folks here were a little more astute than to fall for this nonsense.
Make sure to get two groups to argue over some titillating point that draws lots of attention, sex issues are perfect for distractions. (abortion, birth control, gay marriage, religion is also good thus all the nonsense about sharia law) In this case, the managers fired the person who complained and one of the persons she complained against. This gets men and women arguing over sexual politics while keeping everyone's attention from what is really going on with the industry. Is the company that fired Ms. Richards failing in a big way? Does the company that fired the guy also have some big problem that is now deeply hidden by the PR storm over the ridiculous way they handled the discipline of their employees. Good managers would never have fired anyone, a little training such as do not make crude jokes in the workplace and do not twitter about sexual harassment in the work place would suffice.
This story is,also, taking up a lot of media attention while not a peep is being said about what is happening with the whole issue of bringing in cheap immigrant tech workers to replace the more highly paid local tech workers during the immigration legislation negotiations going on in Congress.
Make light of the very real issue of work places that are unfriendly to women especially in the tech and hard sciences fields. It is really useful for management to allow women to be called names, made to feel uncomfortable and even allow subtle and not so subtle threats of violence to make sure they stay in their proper places. Management does not want women to try to work where they are not wanted so the "boys" can behave the way they want. It also helps to throw in a few "women" to criticize other women for being bitches when they complain about a work atmosphere that is designed to make women uncomfortable. "What a bitch, she can't take a joke." That is a quote from my old workplace. This again discourages women from these fields and gives management more leverage in complaining about the need to import tech workers, because there are not enough tech workers here in the states. It also helps to depress the wages for women in these fields by creating a hostile atmosphere between male and female workers. More divide and conquer.
Be sure to single out and viciously attack a lone woman. This will discourage other women from the field. It will also prevent the few women in the field from ever speaking out, eventually driving more women from the field and keeping wages lower for everyone, male and female.
We have to be smarter than corporations. It really is not very hard if you don't let yourself be distracted by your own personal prejudices.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)See http://www.linkedin.com/in/adriarichards for her resume.
Can't see her being effective as a "developer evangelist". She has a work history of help desk, desktop admin, LAN admin, followed by IT trainer, etc. No CS or STEM degree, and nothing that looks like software development. Mainly good at giving talks and making videos.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)You don't seem to even know what her job is.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Her job is not the usual marketing droid who would make their pitch to middle and upper management.
Her job is to communicate with developers how to use her company's products, get them interested in playing with prototypes, building demonstration implementations, etc. If you put a non-developer in that role, the developers in other companies will see right through it.
http://developer-evangelism.com/handbook.php
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)at the hiring stage. I don't see what that has to do with firing her.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)SendGrid is a small company headquarterd in Boulder, CO with offices in Denver, Anaheim, CA, London, and Frankfurt. Her LinkedIn page gives her location as San Francisco. So either they have a small office in the bay area, or she is working as a remote employee at that location. I'd bet that when headquarters became more familiar with her performance, they didn't like what they saw.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)employee, who is reported to have had numerous infractions of this sort?
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)So far, there are only vague statement about other reasons for firing him, which may or may not be related to harrassment issues. He might have other performance issues as well. Note that of the two, only one was fired.
Response to FarCenter (Reply #123)
BainsBane This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Truthfully, none of us know much about the situation and nothing about their employment records. Your speculation that she shouldn't have been hired in the first place is reaching further than most.
The salient issue in all of this is what the reaction says about society more generally. People on DU and elsewhere remain determined to inflict blame on this woman. Her tweet of the men's behavior is seen as a far more serious offense than those who have threatened Ms. Richards with rape and murder, or the man who sent a bloody image of her decapitating saying "when I'm done." It's become clear to me that hatred of women is far more pervasive than I ever realized.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Her employment record is all listed on her LinkedIn page. She has been on Facebook and Twitter, and she has made a number of videos that are up on YouTube. She is a fairly public personage, who has become famous/notorious for this incident.
We don't know much about the guy fired. He is not the guy looking at the camera in the picture she posted. He and the guy to his left are wearing matching black shirts with playhaven.com in yellow letters. If it is the guy to his left, he is in the row behind and about 3 seats to the left of Adria's seat. But, it might be the guy to his right in the gray shirt. That guy might not have been wearing his playhaven shirt that day. In any case, at least two attendees who have nothing to do with the incident are now also famous/notorious.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)This whole story is a Rorschach test.
WinniSkipper
(363 posts)very few places for more than 18 months. Many stops were less than a year. From the hiring side of the table - that's not a good indicator.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)That Richards didn't inform the conference organizers about the guy's comment at all, but that everyone learned about it from the Tweet. But of course that doesn't fit as neatly with the evil woman having a man fired for violating his God given rights to sit around telling off-color jokes on work time.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)She took a trivial G-rated joke that she overheard -- it wasn't even intended for her -- and turned it into a national news story by PRETENDING that she was offended and getting the guy fired. We know she was never actually offended because, where this was G-rated grade school humor, she was merrily posting graphic penis jokes that make this look like nothing at all.
This woman is toxic, and only an imbecile would hire her. The BEST she can hope at this point is to stay out of the news and hope that anon forgets quickly.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Go on, tell us. She didn't report the incident to his boss. The employer chose to fire him, as her employer chose to fire her. Yet you have decided it's all the evil woman's fault, not the result of the man's behavior or his prior work history. People's reaction to this incident reveals how they see the world and in particular their views toward women. That is what is most interesting about this incident.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)My posts here reveal nothing of my views towards women. It reveals my view towards THIS woman. I do not see women, as a gender, as anything other than fellow humans.
This is, no doubt, the difference between the two of us. Where you pass judgement on groups, assigning them guilt or innocence based upon their gender, I insist upon seeing them as individuals.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)You haven't answered the question.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Apparently the shitbag who sent the 'when I'm done' pic has been possibly identified.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/03/25/adria_richards_her_firing_online_harassment_show_how_sexual_harassment_endures.html
Somehow that doesn't seem to be as interesting as piling on a woman for tweeting a pic of some bros.
Recursion
(56,582 posts) BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Don't you love the previous poster can't explain how Richards supposedly got the guy fired?
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)That's an old story. I'm asking for you to explain HOW you think she got the guy fired. I'm asking for YOUR take on this.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)She overheard a lame G-rated joke and decided it would be amusing to take a picture and post about it on twitter and on her blog pretending to be outraged. The guy's employer eventually heard about it, and as employers so often do in response to any complaint of this kind, they fired him immediately. She was, of course, never offended, and has been caught herself making far more graphic sexual jokes than the lame nonsense she complained about.
The good news is that she has now also been fired and I expect it will be a LONG time before anyone else is foolish enough to hire her.
If you want more details than this, you will have to read the original stories and threads for yourself.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Why is the man not responsible for his own behavior and his employer for the decision to fire him?
And why do you say "pretended to be outraged"? Why do you find that more offensive than those who have threatened to rape and kill her, or the guy who send a picture of a beheaded corpse with the tag "when I'm done with you"?
Call me strange, but I think threats of rape and death are far more serious than exposing to the public something someone was doing in public and at a place of work.
Here's some additional information.
Richards' decision to tweet a photo of the men struck many people as an overreaction, but her actions make more sense in the context of the widespread hostility to women in her field, both online and offline. That hostility is one of the reasons I co-founded a nonprofit that fights harassment of women, the Ada Initiative, after one of my friends was sexually assaulted at a computer conference three times in a single year. The Ada Initiative's first project was helping hundreds of conferences adopt anti-harassment policies that explicitly banned pornography in presentations, groping, stalking, and other obnoxious behavior that had become common at many technology conferences. . . . What makes Adria Richards' case so chilling is the way people in the mainstream computer industry piled on, including her own employer. The attacks weren't coming from just the darker corners of the Internet, places where people trade "creepshots" of 14-year-old girls. This time, many of the threats came from places like Hacker News, a respected computer news discussion site run by Paul Graham's venture capital company, YCombinator. Ambitious computer professionals post on Hacker News under their real names to boost their careers—and felt comfortable posting vicious abuse under those same names. And then there is SendGrid's public firing of Richards, just a few hours after their web site came under attack from anonymous computer hackers calling for her termination. Similar calls to fire the person who tweeted the photo of the beheaded woman? Zero, despite the quick identification of the source of the threat.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Your Questions:
Why is the man not responsible for his own behavior and his employer for the decision to fire him?
He is responsible for telling about as tame a joke as one can tell. She is responsible for everything else.
And why do you say "pretended to be outraged"?
As I said in an earlier post, she was posting FAR more graphic jokes herself.
Why do you find that more offensive than those who have threatened to rape and kill her, or the guy who send a picture of a beheaded corpse with the tag "when I'm done with you"?
None of this has ANYTHING to do with the guy she got fired, and that's what we are talking about here. All of that happened after she decided to play her little game. For the record, I do not approve of the comments and threats she has received. That shouldn't need to be said.
I do approve of this toxic woman getting the boot and I suspect she will have a VERY hard time finding a job in this field again. I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind hiring her after this.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)You seem unable to comprehend that the man is responsible for his actions and that an employer decided to fire him. This entire discussion is about the public reaction. No one seems to think the death and rape threats need to be mentioned. Nor have they resulted in anyone being fired, despite being posted on message boards where people use their real names, according to the linked article. Death and rape threats, no problem. Telling sexist jokes at a conference, no problem. Tweeting those jokes, evil incarnate.
You also are entirely unconcerned that her tweet occurred in the context of repeated hostility toward women in that field of employment, so hostile that rape is not uncommon at those conferences. She did not "get the guy fired." He made stupid comments in public and when his boss became aware of those comments, and in light of previous transgressions, they employer chose to fire him. Now you may think the jokes are meaningless. The employer obviously did not, probably because they know allowing such behavior to continue unabated exposes the company to civil liability. There is a tedious organ of the government called EEOC that establishes certain guidelines for employers. Really they need to do away with all that nonsense about equality in the workplace. What do they think this is, the 21st century?
If only Eve had not tweeted a picture of Adam biting the apple, all would be right with the world.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)He was responsible for his actions. His action was using a ridiculously tame, non-graphic sexual pun as a joke to his friend. That was the END of his actions.
Just as he is responsible for what he did, she is responsible for what she did. She decided, for reasons unknown, to pretend she was offended, take the guy's picture, and plaster it on twitter and her blog claiming that she was feeling sexually harrassed. She didn't confront the guy, she smiled at him and took his picture. She didn't report it to the conference, she didn't report it to his company, and she didn't report it to her own. She decided it would be more fun to take this ludicrous non-issue and create as much drama and devistation as she possibly could. She wanted to create a scene, she wanted to get someone fired, she succeeded at both.
You don't have ANY information as to why he was fired by his company or whether there were any previous issues. None. That's all just speculation. You do not even have evidence that his company even knew or cared what the complaint was before firing him -- it is entirely possible that they did not. Many companies don't even care, fair or unfair doesn't matter, they respond by firing first and asking questions never, particularly when it involves potential sexual harassment. A company cannot be too careful with women like this running around.
This cannot be said for her employer. They made a decision to fire this woman knowing the facts. I would have fired her myself. I wouldn't want this toxic troublemaker anywhere near my business, and I suspect potential future employers will feel the same.
Finally, you keep trying to inject the post incident comments she has received into this discussion, in an effort to use this as justification for what happened before. That sort of revision requires no comment.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)and can see into someone's mind to determine if they are really offended or just pretending? How exactly does one acquire such superpowers?
First you blame her for getting him fired, now you complain she didn't report the incident to his company. So which is it that you're mad about?
The information about his previous circumstances at work is the same as the information about all of this stuff. It's been reported online. It may or may not be true.
The reason "I keep trying to inject the post incident comments" is because that is all we know for sure. We don't know with certainty why either were fired or about their work histories. We do know what the public reaction is. I understand your goal is to present only the most narrow information in ways that justify your hatred of this woman while ignoring the context in which this even occurred--a context of widespread sexual harassment and rape, that concerns you so little you can't bother to mention them. You go further and insist I should not mention such comments, evidently because they complicate your narrative of the evil woman.
This incident is only important because of the controversy, including post incident comments. This incident is ALL about the public reaction. The fact we are talking about it on DU makes that clear. HR decisions are made everyday and we don't know about them. What we know is that she has been targeted as evil, and he has been hailed as a victim, with fundraisers in support of him. We know that very few people care at all for her well being and are wringing their hands over a guy caught being a jerk. We know people here continually say Richards got what she deserved, and they say so knowing she has been threatened with rape and murder. We know that many men, and even some women. so hate a woman who dares to shed light on male behavior in the workplace that violates labor law they believe she deserves to be threatened with rape and murder, and some actually believe she should be raped and murdered.
What I have learned through this incident is that hatred of women who dare expose men's behavior is more intense than I could have possibly imagined. I never realized the level of hostility toward women that so many here feel. I never realized how many men and women alike consider EEOC laws unreasonable and would prefer workplaces where they could demean women and people of color because deep down they consider legal equality oppressive. They assert that they should be able to determine what goes on in the workplace, and if that includes insulting women and people of color, those groups better keep their fucking mouths shut or else.
That is exactly what this incident about and which aspects of the story we choose to focus on reveal who our values and who we are.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)... that you take a giant step back and focus on what actually happened with THIS incident -- because that's what everyone not operating at your level of outrage and anger has done from the beginning. This woman is not advancing the struggle, she's setting you back; and if you want to hold up this twit as the standard bearer in your crusade you will find yourself marching largely alone.
Anyway, back to work.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)If what the guy said is no big deal, why was Richards's tweeting it such a travesty?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)considering your outrage is all about this one woman.
waddirum
(979 posts)I suppose I cold do a google search, but I don't even want those tags showing up in my google advertisements for the next month.
you're not.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)A dongle is a small device that holds a specific software component on it.
To fork is to take someone's software and make your own version of it.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)The expression used was "fork a repo", which is short for "fork a repository". Code for a larger software application is generally written in several source code files which are then compiled together to build the running application. Especially when multiple developers are working on the same application, the source files are kept in a source code control system so that developers don't trip over each others modifications. The collection of stuff for an application is a repository. If a developer wants to modify a new version of the application to add features, etc. they will copy or fork the repository. This is in the sense of "a fork in the road", since one group may continue to develop using the original repository (e.g. adding bug fixes) while another group goes off in a slightly different direction with the new repository (e.g. adding features).
waddirum
(979 posts)Thanks for the link and that explanation.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)posted their pictures on twitter. I can not understand how she didn't turn around and tell them to knock it off instead of
posting to twitter. These were not her colleagues from the same job, these were strangers. I am a woman and would not
want my picture posted if I happened to offend her with an off color joke I intended for my friend.
All parties were acting like 12 yr olds. What kind of society do we want to live in where someone has the ability to shame you
on the internet for a comment they overheard that was not directed at you, about you or for you?
They may have to pay for firing her, but no one else is going to hire her. She ruined her career in less than 140 characters.
That is a life lesson you won't soon forget.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)they do not care that they offend women. as a matter of fact, the whole purpose of this behavior is to offend women. that is why a company has policy against this crap. cause a woman saying, knock it off, does nothing.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)conviction. The point is she didn't even attempt to engage them before she complained to the event staff and publicly
shamed them. Sexist bullshit??? Some jokes about funny named computer equipment to one another is not sexist or is it
sexual harassment. They were not directing their comments to her, for her or about her ( which she freely admits).
This is called eavesdropping in my book, and then judging them for their comments. I don't appreciate people listening in
to my conversations and then thinking they should have an opinion when they weren't included.
What if it wasn't a sexual joke, but a political one and she didn't like it. Would your reaction be the same? I live in a red state and I know that many people have overheard me having a private, political conversation with my best friend. I have received
dirty looks, long sighs and outright interruptions. None of which I appreciated as, i was not speaking to those people. If anyone
of them had posted my pic on twitter or facebook and called me a leftwing loon and tried to have me fired I would be enraged.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)joke. they were saying it loud enough for ALL to share in their "joke" and they were doing it for a reason.
the company had a policy, a strict policy against this behavior. the employee CHOSE to break the company policy rules.
that simple. this is not a tough one.
she said not cool. company checked it out and agreed, not cool.
now, you are in a public place, want to have conversation loud enough for others to hear, and leave it at that? doesnt work that way.
telling a racist joke? is a person allowed to get pissed, or is it your right to not only tell the racist joke labeling it as a personal conversation but have absolutely no reaction from others that hear your racist joke because that would mean they were "eavesdropping".
nope. not buying.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)I am not saying they were whispering or that their behavior was professional. I am saying that she handled it incorrectly and that all parties involved overreacted including their companies that fired them. She is not the morality police. She made an error in
judgment by posting to twitter for 18k people to see the photo.
She never gave them the opportunity to stop their behavior by telling them to stop. She wanted to publicly shame them. She did and now she is out of a job and a pariah in the industry. Ultimately she is going to pay the biggest price for her lack of
judgment.
If you hear a racist joke you also tell them to knock it off. I don't take it upon myself to photograph them and post it on twitter.
Again these 2 people did not work at her company. They were 2 random people in the industry. Conversations in public happen all of the time that I don't appreciate i.e.. foul language, politics, etc. What are we saying? Is it ok to publicly shame and put someone's livelihood in jeopardy because we don't like what someone is saying to another person? Speak up and let it be known you are offended. Ask them to move or keep it down, call over event staff etc. But now with the power of technology I can out you to the world, post your picture, blog about you and get you fired. 2 wrongs don't make a right. That old saying is a perfect
analogy in this situation.
I boils down to she never gave them the opportunity to stop their offensive behavior because she never spoke to them like a human being. if they refused to shut up that would be a different conversation. One of the men apologized to her after reading her blog, now he is fired.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)she is not their mother.
this is not about morality. it is about using sexism to create a hostile work environment for the female employees. and the tech industry has a very bad reputation with that.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)direct colleagues, they were don't directing this to her. She won't have the opportunity to work with any of them in the future as she is now the pariah. I don't think a dongle joke is sexist as it could have been made by a female. Unless the joke was made in reference to her. Out in public it is her responsibility to give them the "opportunity" to modify their behavior before wrecking their lives. I am not an apologist for these men, I just find the way she handled it offensive.
Privacy is also at stake here. I do not think we want to live in a society with this kind of public shaming. The technology at hand makes privacy obsolete. Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine millions of people seeing your picture for a comment made to a friend.
We don't have to agree on the situation, and we aren't the ones harmed by the whole thing. The issue is that anyone of us could find ourselves on either end of this problem. I think we are no longer engaging in civilized discourse or disagreement. Too easy to hide behind your fan base.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)tell their jokes to like minds, loud enough for all to hear, as they roar with laughter as if it is the funniest thing in the world.
THAT is classic, creating a hostile work environment that every company is aware of. if they take this sexism seriously, this would be exactly what they dismiss an employee for.
i need a nap.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I really feel like there's a misunderstanding of what constitutes a hostile environment here...
Pisces
(5,599 posts)These were some dumb nerdy 12 yr old jokes amongst themselves. She publicly shamed them??? I do not condone the jokes or
their language. I simply stated that we have moved to a strange time when we no longer confront or engage people directly.
I don't know if it is our litigious society or no social coping skills. If someone is saying something I don't like in my vicinity I ask them to stop, or move away. I have children and have been in public with people cursing or talking inappropriately. I have had no trouble voicing my disapproval or any problem giving people the look. I have not taken their picture and posted to twitter to announce how disgusting they were to be using crude language around children.
I am talking about how this particular situation was handled, not how women are are subjected to sexual harassment in the tech industry or how women are treated in the tech industry. That is a separate conversation. She never gave them the opportunity to
stop the offensive behavior. I think a lot of baggage is being brought into the real issue which is technical, public shaming of strangers.
People say things in public settings all of the time that I do not agree with. Is this the way to handle those situations?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I have no doubt she will parlay this into a career as a social justice warrior, internet firebrand, scourge of mild innuendo everywhere.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)She's very, very important you know, unlike these other mean people who are using the internet to say bad things about her.
(By that, jury, I mean Amanda Blum for example, no, not the death and rape threat cru who apparently we are all in league with)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)over a "dongle" joke in the first place.
[blink]IMPORTANT[/blink] ----> AND YES IT NEEDS REPEATING THAT DEATH THREATS ARE REPREHENSIBLE AND NOT OKAY <---- [blink]IMPORTANT[/blink]
But it also means that anyone who has any issue with the way she dealt with some dude sitting behind her telling his buddy a joke she didn't like, is now part of the "Adria Richards Internet Silencing Death Threat Misogyny Brigade"
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)because I seem to remember quite a bit of sturm und drang over this-
http://hotchicksofoccupywallstreet.tumblr.com/
and despite the (deliberately so) public nature of a protest, where the entire point is to be seen, I agreed.
But I think it's important to be consistent.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)this is what you posted. GIANT STINK.
she tweeted a not cool.
more hair on fire warren. more fainting couch for you. more not replying to what i posted about. you know the GIANT STINK. more exaggerations.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)
Good to know.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)in your post, that she did not commit.
you will continue your obtuseness because it works to your advantage. not cause there is even a measure of honesty in the argument.
#buh%20bye%20kitteh%20130x100
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)With all due respect, and you do know I actually do kinda like you, sea... but this is the crux of the issue for, I suspect, many of us here. Exactly who the fuck are you (or any of the other usual suspects) to not only decide that we need to be "educated", but that you - and you alone - are the people most qualified to provide that education?? Now look.. there`s quite a few subjects I know a bit about... guitar playing, music theory, anthropology, psychology, BDSM... and in my more egotistical moments, I think I can offer some degree of insight on those subjects to anybody inclined to learn... but I also realize, as highly as I think of my knowlege in those areas, there`s always a fuck-ton of people out there (and yes even here at DU) who know a fuck of a lot more than I. Even if they have considered the issues and come to different conclusions than me. I don`t think I`ve ever seen that kind of self-reflection and humility from any of the self-appointed "educators" here, with a few possible exceptions. The sooner some of these people realize that, yes, we`ve heard the evidence, considered it thoughtfully and thoroughly, and simply disagree, (no education needed), the better off we`ll all be around here.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts) opiate69
(10,129 posts)Lol
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)a pain.
i here ya dude. lol.
luckily i have siri. unluckily siri gets most of it wrong so i have to do a bunch of corrections.
really, the education part was cause of skinners comments. meh.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)And since I quit playing WoW, my kids have claimed my iMac 
greatlaurel
(2,004 posts)Continue your personal attacks on a woman who stood up for herself. This will endear you to your corporate masters. The outrageous attacks do make clear how easy it is to manipulate people against their own interests by appealing to their personal prejudices. The excuses for the personal attacks on Ms. Richards are also examples of rationalizing abusive behaviors. You must be a joy to work with.
Where is the outrage for the vile threats of violence against this woman? Obviously, these people think it is acceptable to create hostile work environments for women, but are outraged anytime a woman stands up for herself.
What a bunch of losers. No wonder the tech industry has so many failed companies. Most of these people couldn't managed their way out of a paper bag.
Keep up the good corporate work attacking women. Just do not come crying to the ladies you were so busy abusing when all the good paying tech jobs have disappeared.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Why was tweeting it such a travesty?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It's like setting off a nuclear weapon over someone saying "I don't like your shirt".
And you can't ignore the hypocrisy angle. If this joke bothered her so, how come it was just fine for her to make far more explicit jokes in her workplace?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)it was stupid. But she didn't set off a nuclear weapon. If he said "I don't like your shirt," she put on twitter that he said "I don't like your shirt." The comment was the same, wasn't it?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)big deal. If the joke wasn't anything to worry about, he wouldn't have been fired.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The actual incident, by all accounts, involved a guy in the audience making ONE joke about "big dongles" to his buddy sitting next to him. ..(yes, the word dongle is funny. Not pee yourself funny, but, mildly amusing.)
Overreaction one was when Ms. Richards tweeted the complaint to the universe, along with dude's picture, instead of merely asking them to be quiet.
Overreaction two was when event security kicked these guys out, not having heard the "offending" joke, just going on the fact that if it was on twitter as an "official" complaint, it must be pretty disruptive.
Overreaction three was when dude's employer fired him, on the basis of "if you did something bad enough to get kicked out of the conference, it must have been REALLY egregious"
Overreaction four was when Ms. Richards' employer fired HER, although if her job involves "developer relations" she clearly demonstrated a piss-poor ability to, ah, actually relate to developers.
Overreaction five was, obviously, when a few internet cranks started making threats at her, although they should not be confused/conflated with people criticizing how she handled this deal.
WinniSkipper
(363 posts)Actually - where most people seem to be missing the issue.
Nobody here was fired for any sort of joke or contents thereof. Not they should not have been fired for those comments (I don't think either should have - but we are where we are).
They were most likely fired because they brought unwanted, undue, and unappealing attention to their companies. Lots of it. This is a PR issue, plain and simple. Cut ties with the issue as fast as you can.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Thank you for pointing that out.
WinniSkipper
(363 posts)Let's take two premises.
One theory is that the guy who got fired - this was the last straw of previous behavior. BS. A "dongle/forking" joke is not going to put you over the top for termination. Especially in an industry where (as everyone admits) is pretty male chauvinist. Did his company finally see the light that his comments were inappropriate? No, something was about to blow up so they fired him.
And for her - the penis jokes were fine when nobody was looking. What - now her company is horrified? This is nothing more than a big CYA - which I would do too if I were at either of these companies
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)telling jokes, both worked for the same company, or so I've read. Only one was fired, which tells me there had to be more in his background. Now I've been accused of liable for saying that in another post, but it strikes me as common sense.
WinniSkipper
(363 posts)NONE of this would have happened if it wasn't tweeted. It has zero to do with any sort of company policy or else both of them would have been out before the incident.
I have read your thoughts on this - I am not saying she CAUSED him to be fired. But he would not have been fired had she not tweeted. I also think that's beside the point - chicken and egg is not the issue.
The company would not have fired the guy had it not been tweeted. A G Rated joke pushed them over the line? In this industry? Makes a nice story.
And to those who are talking about law suits etc. When this went national - any money payout for a bad firing(s) is minuscule compared to the bad press. The companies will gladly take the money hit later
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)inappropriate doesn't explain threats of death and murder. That doesn't begin to explain why the internet is ablaze with this story.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Um, no.
Right now, there's someone making a death threat on the Internet over a parking ticket.
Right now, there's someone making a death threat on the Internet over a picture of a cute kitten.
The Internet is not a monolithic group where everyone has similar ideas. The fact that someone makes a death threat doesn't mean the Internet as a whole is making such a threat. And you will be able to find someone who insanely overreacts to any particular slight on the Internet. Anonymity and not actually seeing the target of one's threat makes it very easy to casually threaten harm. It isn't real to the threatener.
Random strangers escalating to death threats does not excuse the woman's behavior.
Just like the woman escalating this confrontation does not excuse the man's behavior.
JVS
(61,935 posts)make death threats and threats of rape if they don't like what you do or are accused of doing.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)and have proclaimed she deserves everything that has happened to her.
JVS
(61,935 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)Reading sex into the "dongle" is no different than me making a crude joke about "headlights"
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)That was not Richards' decision. If what the guy said was not big deal, why should Tweeting it have mattered? You're saying his making those jokes isn't creating a hostile work environment, but her reporting it to conference authorities is? What kind of nonsense is that?
This is a perfect example of people blaming women for the behavior of men. The guy is responsible for his own behavior and whatever else led up to his boss firing him. People need to stop blaming women for every ill in life since the Garden of Eden. It's absurd.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)employee...
She made the choice to attack on a public forum and bring negative attention to her employer. It wasn't required to pursue her claim.... nor did she deserve the threats.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Anonymous and 4chan made her a toxic employee when they threatened the company she worked for with DOS attacks.
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/sendgrid-under-ddos-attack-after-its-developer-evangelist-complains-about-sexual-jokes-at-pycon/
It's interesting that this little factiod is routinely ignored here.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Gee, when they were going after the officials in Steubenville who seemed to be covering up for those rapist shits, they were pretty popular around here.
When they took down a bunch of sick child X sites, everyone -including me- was glad they got in there and did what the feds had been unable to.
But, of course, a small vocal group here was absolutely CERTAIN that the next step for anonymous would be to (finally! THANK GOD!) get all the pictures of naked adults fucking off the internet, to cleanse the internet of all the dreaded adult porn.
(PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE)
They didn't, deeply disappointing the people who had (oddly) projected their own censorious fantasies onto anonymous.
Well, surprise surprise, anonymous finds sick images involving kids reprehensible yet has no problem with consenting adults watching other CONSENTING ADULTS fuck.
Anonymous doesn't like rapist football players AND anonymous doesn't like out of control social justice fascists who get people fired over innocuous "dongle" jokes.
Anonymous can walk and chew gum at the same time, it seems. Like most (but not all) of us.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)There is nothing sexual about a "dongle" and to read something dirty into it like she did is an example of harassment, albeit slight.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)on the internet and found this story.
People including herself, got fired because a woman overheard a "dongle" joke. And now there is a firestorm over a story that happens hundreds of time every day to Minorities, Gays, Jews, and many others.
I work in a very right wing environment. I hear "off color" jokes about me all the time. Hell, righties will tell me a "Jew" joke right to my face. Should I run to twitter every time I happen to hear a stupid joke? Should I take someones ignorance and use it against them so they have to struggle to feed their family?
This response reminds me of people who think shooting a shoplifter is appropriate punishment.
I read a letter written by the man who got fired. He was absolutely understanding about what happened to him. The way his letter read, he was the type of person who, had the woman bothered to go directly to him and tell him she was offended by what he said, would have apologized profusely and probably been much more careful about who was around him when he made a third grade joke.
But no he had to have his livelihood taken away because someone overheard his "dongle" joke. Mountain out of a molehill.
