Torrington, CT students rally in favor of child rapist. And blame the victim, of course.

[riqster]

See these idiotic fools in Torrington, CT? They are holding up fingers to give the number (21), the jersey number of one of the child-molesting, raping scumbucket football players who is currently awaiting trial for his despicable, perverted, revolting crimes:


The girls and the boys are standing foursquare with the criminal, and are bullying the living Hell out of the victim: http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/torrington-vt-students-rally-in-favor-of-rapist/

[liberal N proud]

1. Athletes are the hero's and fools always protect their hero's.

[Rex]

2. You cannot fix stupid.

[cali]

3. Could you fix your title line please. This did not happen in VT

[riqster]

4. D'oh! Thanks.

[Blue_Tires]

5. Like I've said from day one, EVERY community has a "Steubenville" or something similar

Steubenville was so much more noteworthy because of the extensive planning if the crime, and initial lack of interest from law enforcement despite an immense cache of incriminating evidence posted on social media...


Gonzalez and Toribio, both 18, were arrested on Feb. 20 and Feb. 22, respectively, and charged with sexual assault, which police later characterized as statutory rape, against the two 13-year-old victims. A third, unnamed 17-year-old boy was arrested on March 4 and also charged with sex assault on one of the 13-year-olds. Following news of their arrests, a large number of students used Twitter and other social media to post or send messages blaming the girls for “ruining the lives” of Gonzalez and Toribio. They called the girls “whore” and “snitch,” blamed them for hanging out with 18-year-olds in the first place, and more....

The bullying was brought to light in an extensive story by Jessica Glenza that The Register Citizen published on March 20 along with screen shots of the students’ tweets that were reproduced on the front page of the newspaper and on its website....

...As noted in a Register Citizen article published last week, many social media users in Torrington and around the nation seem to believe that statutory rape is not “real” rape because of the fact it is defined by age difference and not a physical attack....

Seriously; just how widespread is that belief?

[riqster]

6. And how did the cops decide it was SR?

Facts, or another cover-up?

I hope the CT state AG steps in like Ohio's did.

[Recursion]

41. He seems to have subtracted 3 from 17 and 18, and gotten 14 and 15

which is greater than either girls' age. And Connecticut is strict liability, so there's not really much defense they can offer.

[riqster]

45. Interesting

At least one perp has asked for a jury trial, so it will all come out at that time, I expect.

[Recursion]

48. Sounds risky to me, but I'm no lawyer

It's just kind of a fundamental problem that comes with having to make statutory rape laws: you'll always have some situation where a day can make a difference in sex being rape and not rape.

I wish there were a way we could say "if a reasonable person would find your age difference creepy, it's statutory rape".

[KamaAina]

51. Some states have a "Romeo and Juliet provision"

I'd propose, at a minimum, that one party would have to be over 21 and the other under 16.

[Recursion]

53. CT is one of them

The victims could have legally consented if the boys were 16 rather than 17 or 18

[geek tragedy]

18. See post #7 below. nt

[Archae]

7. I can't help but think about this case...

It was on "60 Minutes" yesterday.

"Brian Banks' original defense attorney, Elizabeth Harris, declined to talk to 60 Minutes as did Wanetta Gibson who has not returned the money she won in her lawsuit. For its part, the school district has not reached out to get it back."

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50143485n

Why did this girl make up the fake charges in the first place?
So she could sue the school?

And don't forget in this CT case, it's not a case of forcible rape of a drunk and passed out girl, like Steubanville.

My now-21 year old nephew said he saw girls 13, 14, 15 dressing up like older teens and coming on to guys.

[Blue_Tires]

11. God, his attorney was a ****** idiot...

Nice to know his mom had to sell her car and house just to get such a high-caliber legal defense

[geek tragedy]

12. Wait, what? Your first thought upon hearing of rape

victims getting bullied is to suggest they're lying?

And that it's the 13-15 year old's fault if an adult has sex with them?

Yuck and yuck.

[Recursion]

28. 17 isn't "adult" either

This is teenagers having illegal sex. If this was nonconsensual (which it may have been) the Police are being very quiet about it (which they may have reason to do). This isn't an adult molesting a child, however.

[geek tragedy]

34. I've seen them listed as 18 years old. Is that incorrect? nt

[riqster]

35. Two of the three perps were 18

Read up on the case before commenting.

[Recursion]

39. Two of them are now

I have no idea (nor do you) whether they were 18 or 17 when they had sex, nor whether the girls were 12 or 13. The latter question makes a huge difference in terms of their sentencing. The former gets trickier; if they were 17 when they had sex with the girls, and the girls were 13, they're within 1 year of the "Romeo and Juliet" provision the article described (a 13 year old can legally consent to have sex with a 16 year old but not a 17 year old).

[riqster]

43. Yes, we do know the ages

They are in the news reports. Google please, because you're looking like an ass.

[Recursion]

44. The news reports that don't say when the sex happened?

Those ones?

[maddezmom]

47. Article at the link says Feb 10

[Recursion]

49. Thank you. I had missed the second link.

Were Gonzalez and Toribio 18 or 17 last month? I don't know, and that doesn't change the legal situation because they'd have to be 16 for it not to be statutory rape.

[Archae]

62. The point is, we don't know yet.

I asked my nephew if any of those 13, 14 or 15 year olds lied about how old they were.
He said yes, a couple did.

Where do you think the term "jail bait" comes from?

In the case of that guy who was lied about into 5 years in jail, it was practically automatic, big dumb jock not in control of his hormones rapes an innocent young sweet thing.

Turned out to be a big lie.

And I have seen kids looking older than they really are.

That's why this case is so different from the Steubanville case.

[Posteritatis]

63. And straight to "the victim asked for it." Nice. (nt)

[Archae]

64. That's not the point.

Read message #62, above.

[Posteritatis]

65. You mean one of your other posts putting the onus on the victim? (nt)

[madmom]

8. Time to get rid of high school football? Seriously, I haven't heard

any of this behavior from art students, tennis players, baseball, volleyball, but tons about football. Is it the "macho" mentality that goes with it?

[KamaAina]

52. Get rid of the NFL, too

Kansas City's Jovan Belcher killing his girlfriend, then himself. Carolina's Rae Carruth hiring a hit man to kill his girlfriend in cold blood. And so on ad nauseam.

[madmom]

56. Well my tax dollars aren't paying for them, and they aren't

interfering with educating our kids. The football "group" get more perks than any one group is seriously entitled to.

[KamaAina]

57. Not sure about the tax dollars

most new stadiums are paid for at least partially with public money.

[riqster]

66. Tax dollars ARE Public money. nt

[KamaAina]

67. Precisely my point.

Public money subsidizes both college AND pro athletics.

[gollygee]

9. This picture makes me feel so much anger.

Look at the expressions on their faces. They're causing so much harm to the victim, and backing up a rapist.

[Recursion]

20. I have no idea what the victim's feelings are and neither do you

The police keep stressing the sex was consensual but illegal.

[gollygee]

22. I'm talking about the bullying

Have you read about the case? The victims are being bullied.

[Recursion]

24. Sorry, I totally read your point wrong

But we still have no idea how the girl herself feels about the prosecution.

[riqster]

23. And the crime was reported by her father

So, how did he find out about it? Becasue his daughter was ever-so-very-happy? One rarely sees calls made to the cops in such circumstances.

Also, remember in Steubenville (and in other cases), the consensual card was thrown out early, and later removed from the table.

Finally, we have an "age of consent" for a reason. Children are easily victimized by adults.

Kindly cease to minimize the offense.

[Recursion]

25. How do parents find out?

Lots of ways, and their finding out and their reactions aren't always things the victims of statutory rape are happy about. And sometimes they are.

[Nye Bevan]

32. Oh please. A 13 year old girl cannot legally give "consent" (nt)

[riqster]

36. ^THIS^

Thank you.

[Recursion]

38. No, but she can factually give consent, which is not the same thing

That said, Connecticut is I believe a strict liability state for statutory rape (ie, "she said she was 18" doesn't help you at all), so their only viable legal defense would have to be "the sex didn't happen", which looks difficult for them at this point.

[Nye Bevan]

40. Can an 11-year old "factually give consent"? A 9-year old? A 5-year old?

When we are talking about a child, I find this whole quibbling about "consent" to be disgusting.

[Recursion]

42. The law has to draw an arbitrary line

And it has, and they're definitely on the wrong side of it. Don't project onto my posts things I'm not saying.

[sufrommich]

10. So incredibly sick. Their parents must

be so proud.

[gollygee]

15. My first though was

how I would respond if one of my kids had posed for that photo.

[sufrommich]

19. I would be absolutely crushed. I'm guessing these kids

have the kind of parents who would cheer them on. You know,morons.

[struggle4progress]

13. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a useful slogan IMO

[geek tragedy]

14. Did you take that position in the Assange case? nt

[struggle4progress]

59. I've never taken any position regarding Assange's guilt or innocence in the Swedish case

I have indicated my disgust with the slander campaign he, and his associates like "Israel Shamir" (whatever his real name might be), ran against the complainants in that case, as well as his silly conspiracy theories; and I have said I thought he should go to Sweden to face the court

Please do feel free to search the archives to check that

[riqster]

17. True.

In my case, I presume the victim to be innocent. The a** holes in the picture, at the local PD, and in some cases here at DU assume her to be guilty.

As to the accused, they'll get their day in court, as is their right. And if they're innocent, I expect a lot of apologies will be owed, by myself and others.

But no matter what, that barely-teenaged girl will always be judged guilty by the pro-rape contingent in her town, and elsewhere.

[Recursion]

26. That last bit is the unfortunate truth

But no matter what, that barely-teenaged girl will always be judged guilty by the pro-rape contingent in her town, and elsewhere.

That is, unfortunately, the one constant.

[LiberalLoner]

33. Thank you for this post

[bike man]

54. But not completely accurate

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Innocent+until+proven+guilty

<snip> Aside from the related requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the presumption of innocence is largely symbolic. The reality is that no defendant would face trial unless somebody—the crime victim, the prosecutor, a police officer—believed that the defendant was guilty of a crime. After the government has presented enough evidence to constitute Probable Cause to believe that the defendant has committed a crime, the accused need not be treated as if he or she was innocent of a crime, and the defendant may be jailed with the approval of the court.

Nevertheless, the presumption of innocence is essential to the criminal process. The mere mention of the phrase presumed innocent keeps judges and juries focused on the ultimate issue at hand in a criminal case: whether the prosecution has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the alleged acts. The people of the United States have rejected the alternative to a presumption of innocence—a presumption of guilt—as being inquisitorial and contrary to the principles of a free society.

[struggle4progress]

60. Of course. OTOH why jump into a thread to denounce "the criminal"? It sounds to me as if

local law enforcement has pushed this into the courts, where the cases seem to be sealed. Personally, I never like football much, so I always suspect footballs stars get a free pass from the community for their bad behavior -- but even so, why would anyone take a stand without being sure of the facts?

[Downwinder]

16. What happened to the phrase:

"Fifteen will get you twenty."

[CBGLuthier]

31. It is obsolete, just like, innocent until proven guilty.

[bike man]

58. See Response 54. "Innocent until proven guilty" isn't accurate.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Innocent+until+proven+guilty

<snip> Aside from the related requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the presumption of innocence is largely symbolic. The reality is that no defendant would face trial unless somebody—the crime victim, the prosecutor, a police officer—believed that the defendant was guilty of a crime. After the government has presented enough evidence to constitute Probable Cause to believe that the defendant has committed a crime, the accused need not be treated as if he or she was innocent of a crime, and the defendant may be jailed with the approval of the court.

Nevertheless, the presumption of innocence is essential to the criminal process. The mere mention of the phrase presumed innocent keeps judges and juries focused on the ultimate issue at hand in a criminal case: whether the prosecution has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the alleged acts. The people of the United States have rejected the alternative to a presumption of innocence—a presumption of guilt—as being inquisitorial and contrary to the principles of a free society.

[redqueen]

46. We have to respect middle school girls' agency to have sex with seniors.

I mean who would think a senior sleeping with a 7th or 8th grader is creepy, amirite?

It's 'natural'.

[riqster]

50. The awful thing is

...how many people would say the same thing, but not be sarcastic.

[Nye Bevan]

27. Ugh. Reminds me of Hollywood defending Roman Polanski (nt)

[Recursion]

29. Roman Polanski was three times her age and drugged her

This is somebody four years older than her, and if there was any drugging the police aren't mentioning it.

[Nye Bevan]

30. Both Polanski's victim and the victims in this case were 13 years old (nt)

[City Lights]

37. Hero-worshiping athlethes is a plague on society.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

61. Same with the entertainment industry

I know a lot of people here hate sports and think it's the root of all evil, but as long as we're making broad generalizations let's include that as well.

[nomorenomore08]

55. Considering the age of the girls, and that of the young "gentlemen," I don't think you can spin this

as consensual. In this case, I'm all for putting the guys away.

[radicalliberal]

68. This is one reason why I have never been and will never be . . .

. . . a football fan. (To anyone who may be offended by what I've just said: Yes, I realize there are decent fans; so, back off. Direct your outrage at the enablers who are corrupting your sport, not at me.)

Absolutely pathetic!

And where are the parents of these vile punks?