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Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 06:49 PM Mar 2013

Whew, my 10,000th post.....Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Yes, that is what I said…..pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

We hear this all the time. What is wrong with you? Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. So let’s take a look at how that will go. Let’s assume you have boots. With straps. Now grab those straps. Pull. Pull harder. You aren’t pulling hard enough, put all you have into it. Pull until you are exhausted. Then keep pulling.

Did you get anywhere? Is it possible for you to get any further than where you started?

What the hell are they talking about? This is the sickest joke on the poor, telling them that they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Why are we even letting this expression be used without making the user look like a fucking idiot?

Or maybe, this is just what they mean when they use this expression----keep trying, boys and girls. Get yourself too tired to fight anymore, and then we will not have to deal with you anymore.

And that, folks, is my 10,000 post. I spent too much time thinking about the impossible and what it means.

61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Whew, my 10,000th post.....Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. (Original Post) Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 OP
I've often wondered about that expression too. LeftofObama Mar 2013 #1
I actually researched the etymology of this term Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #2
Congratulations on your 10,000th post, Curmudgeoness! RKP5637 Mar 2013 #3
Thank you, RKP5637. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #5
Obama said in his campaign.... OKNancy Mar 2013 #4
Yes, I have heard that often Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #7
Here's 40bn that could have gone a long way in the USA. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #14
It makes no sense, does it, Daneel Olivaw? Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #27
It seems that everybody gets to ride the magic pony R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2013 #30
And the kid whose job it is the clean up after it. nt Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #32
Congratulations! redqueen Mar 2013 #6
Thanks, redqueen. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #8
hmmmm. ashling Mar 2013 #33
OMG, not that! Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #42
What are these things you talk of, "bootstraps"? jazzimov Mar 2013 #9
Thanks, jazzimov. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #11
Well, thanks for your answer, but jazzimov Mar 2013 #37
I do understand your point Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #40
So, we agree, but I think I understand jazzimov Mar 2013 #45
Yes, we agree. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #51
. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #16
Thanks for the help, UnrepentantLiberal. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #26
I do it with my phone. UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #29
Thanks, I am just glad to be here. nt Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #31
Wow! You mean some people can actually afford to wear those jazzimov Mar 2013 #38
Congrats on 10,000 and... 99Forever Mar 2013 #10
Thanks, 99Forever. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #12
Same here... 99Forever Mar 2013 #13
Congrats malaise Mar 2013 #15
Thanks, malaise. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #17
Congratulations on your 10,000th post. oldandhappy Mar 2013 #18
Thanks, oldandhappy. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #19
Congrats Curmudgeoness !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2013 #20
Thank you, WillyT. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #23
Congratulations on your 10K! Newest Reality Mar 2013 #21
Thanks, Newest Reality. Oh, I get it. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #24
Good 10,000th post. the most one might accomplish trying that maneuver is falling. Dragonfli Mar 2013 #22
Thank you, Dragonfli. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #25
Congrats my friend! hrmjustin Mar 2013 #28
It's great to be here. Thanks, hrmjustin. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #35
Congrats on your 10,000th post! nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #34
Thanks, Homeycombe8. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #36
The biggest scam in U.S. history: trickle-down economics. Jamaal510 Mar 2013 #39
Trickle down, or tinkle down. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #41
I very much dislike this expression Phlem Mar 2013 #43
How right you are! The rules don't work. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #47
Congratulations, Buddy.... fadedrose Mar 2013 #44
Thanks, fadedrose. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #48
Good 10000th post treestar Mar 2013 #46
Thank you, treestar. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #50
What if you don't HAVE boots? Phentex Mar 2013 #49
Thanks, Phentex, it's great to be here. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #53
Or just bootlick a job creator for the same results Blue Owl Mar 2013 #52
I know a few of those people. nt Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #54
Congrats for reaching that milestone!.... Little Star Mar 2013 #55
Thanks, Little Star. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #57
Ya know, I think that 'some' people, especially if they have Little Star Mar 2013 #61
Congrats davidpdx Mar 2013 #56
Thank you, davidpdx. Fun to be here. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #58
Interesting. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2013 #59
Thanks, A HERETIC I AM....I think. Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #60

LeftofObama

(4,243 posts)
1. I've often wondered about that expression too.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 06:53 PM
Mar 2013

I have a feeling the people that use it don't even know what it means.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
2. I actually researched the etymology of this term
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 07:00 PM
Mar 2013

because I was so curious about what the hell it meant. It actually started as a term to describe the impossible, which makes sense.

Interestingly, the expression itself wasn’t originally intended to describe something we should expect from anyone at all, ever. Difficulty notwithstanding. In spite of what liberal critics often describe as the unlikely chance that a person will rise from pauper to President, what they forget is that it is literally impossible for a person to lift themselves up by their bootstraps, which was the original intention of the expression.


http://abetterworldisprobable.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/pulling-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps-an-etymology-of-an-american-dream/

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
4. Obama said in his campaign....
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 07:09 PM
Mar 2013

" it's kind of hard to lift yourself up by your bootstraps, when you have no boots"

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
7. Yes, I have heard that often
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 07:13 PM
Mar 2013

and it makes a lot of sense. I have even used that many times.

But then, I realized that the whole idea of this makes absolutely no sense.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
14. Here's 40bn that could have gone a long way in the USA.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 08:02 PM
Mar 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022560966

Lots of bridges could be repaired with that money. I just wonder why we get stuck with the bootstraps of sequester while foreign nations, whose PMs lie to meddle in our elections, enjoy a raise.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
27. It makes no sense, does it, Daneel Olivaw?
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:17 PM
Mar 2013

We could do so much infrastructure improvement, which is the same as job creation with something to see at the end.

Sigh.

ashling

(25,771 posts)
33. hmmmm.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:23 PM
Mar 2013

You used the name of another DUer in your post.

You start to notice odd things like that when you are sleep deprived.

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
9. What are these things you talk of, "bootstraps"?
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 07:20 PM
Mar 2013

When so many don't have boots?

Congratulations on your benchmark, but I still have to ask

What are these "bootstraps" that magically empower us to achieve the unachievable, and where might we get them?

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
11. Thanks, jazzimov.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 07:24 PM
Mar 2013

And in answer to your question, from Wiktionary:

A loop (leather or other material) sewn at the side or top rear of a boot to help in pulling the boot on.


Does that help? No. Keep trying.

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
37. Well, thanks for your answer, but
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:52 PM
Mar 2013

boots are expensive. Speaking for the poor at the time that this expression became popular, that had never seen a boot or knew what bootstraps were -

isn't that pretty much the same as saying "Let them eat cake"?

My point is that it was just so ignorant of the plight of the poor that it was absoluteness ridiculousness for them to say such a thing, and by saying it they only proved how out of touch they were with the very people they were trying to denigrate.

sort of like saying "a rising tide lifts all boats" - what if you can't afford a boat?

"pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" - I've never been able to afford shoes, so WTF are "bootstraps"?

Do you see?

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
40. I do understand your point
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:59 PM
Mar 2013

and I did with your first post, but I am making the argument that, not only is it heartless to tell people without boots to pull themselves up by the bootstraps that they don't have, but it is ridiculous to even suggest that someone can get anywhere by doing so, if they have boots.

The expression is utter nonsense. It is just not a reflexion of the speaker being out of touch.

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
45. So, we agree, but I think I understand
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:44 PM
Mar 2013

that you were defending the OP.

Honestly, I wasn't trying to claim that the OP was "out of touch", only that the phrase itself was. Even though it's a common phrase.

considering that the OP was mostly satire, I thought I was supporting his POV. At least, that's what I meant, if not to enhance it a little.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
51. Yes, we agree.
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:22 PM
Mar 2013

For the record, my OP was not satire. It was a real observation of a real problem. I hate that expression, and I do want to call people out about the impossibility of what they tell people to do. I don't want to argue with them anymore about why or why not we have boots.

But I do appreciate the enhancement of the discussion.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
26. Thanks for the help, UnrepentantLiberal.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:14 PM
Mar 2013

Duh, it never occurred to me to get a picture---probably because I still find posting a picture to be a chore.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
17. Thanks, malaise.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 08:17 PM
Mar 2013


Never thought I'd get this far......and I am shocked at myself that I stop here every day. I never thought that I would have an obsession that continued this long.

It's been good.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
23. Thank you, WillyT.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:07 PM
Mar 2013


And I thought that getting to 1000 was a challenge, back when that was the benchmark to stop being a "newby".

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
21. Congratulations on your 10K!
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 08:52 PM
Mar 2013

What they neglect to mention is that you need magical, blessed, holy boots to accomplish this and they are not easy to come by.

However, I hear there are a pair of ruby slippers that can get you home.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
22. Good 10,000th post. the most one might accomplish trying that maneuver is falling.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 08:57 PM
Mar 2013

I think the rich just say shit like that because they think we are here to entertain them like stooges, when not wiping their asses for spare change.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
25. Thank you, Dragonfli.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:11 PM
Mar 2013

I guess that is the point, the best result we get is to fall over.

I can imagine people like RMoney being entertained by our struggles.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
39. The biggest scam in U.S. history: trickle-down economics.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 09:58 PM
Mar 2013

I don't know how they did it, but kudos to Ronald Reagan and the GOP for somehow convincing millions of middle-class and poor Americans that they, too can sit atop the capitalist pyramid when rich Americans are given more money.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
41. Trickle down, or tinkle down.
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:02 PM
Mar 2013

They want all the underlings to believe that they are just not working hard enough, or that they will get there....one day.

I also cannot figure out how they convinced so many people at the low end that this will work.

Phlem

(6,323 posts)
43. I very much dislike this expression
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:07 PM
Mar 2013

and maybe it was appropriate at one time or another but it doesn't apply anymore. Coming from my background (which is another topic all together), I have done this all my life. One of the last blow's was my career. I put myself through school, learned a computer technical trade, got a job, bought a house, but somewhere along the way....

...it turned into 60 hour weeks with no extra pay, more work for less money, jobs started being shipped over seas, jobs here started disappearing, to current, I'm a self employed contractor struggling to find my next gig.

I dotted my I's and crossed my T's and did all correct things according to historical experience.

It doesn't apply anymore.

Now it's back to square one and I can't find my boot straps, I've gone through so many of them, is this all there is from now and forward into retirement, or should I say faux retirement?



-p

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
47. How right you are! The rules don't work.
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:10 PM
Mar 2013

So many of us did all the "right" things....the things that we were told to do. But really, I don't think that this ever worked. The rules haven't changed, for the most part. They never were stacked in our favor. It is illusion. This expression was never appropriate.

This is not to say that luck did not stack in some people's favor, and I call it mostly luck. I have (so far) been lucky, because I still do have a job, and that is not really because I am a better person than those who lost jobs---I have been lucky. But as far as pay increases, or advances, I have not been lucky...I have been losing ground for half of my life. But the people who are using this idiom these days are basically using it to say "you are lazy leeches".

I resent it.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
44. Congratulations, Buddy....
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:10 PM
Mar 2013

I wish you joy and love and another 10,000, and several more decades after that, my friend...

(my boots don't have straps anyway, so I have no recourse but to stop trying to do better, and just be happy that I'm not looking like a fucking idiot, or one that is just merely flirting)....

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
48. Thanks, fadedrose.
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:13 PM
Mar 2013

You have the right attitude. Being happy is what matters most, and I am glad to hear that you are happy.

And do you mean you are grateful that you are not a Tea Party Republican....since they are the ones who look the most like fucking idiots. I'm glad you are here!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
46. Good 10000th post
Sun Mar 24, 2013, 10:47 PM
Mar 2013

Right wingers are so stuck in the 19th century. Even then it wasn't true. They want it to be that people are too due to lack of effort. That way they don't have to feel any responsibility.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
50. Thank you, treestar.
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:17 PM
Mar 2013

This expression started from a folklore tale, about a man who pulled himself out of quicksand by his ponytail----or so the intertubes tells me. And it was one of those impossibilities. It still is, and I am really tired of having these "fine, upstanding citizens" in the GOP call us lazy and unmotivated when we can't get ahead, even when we work hard and try to be the best that we can.

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
49. What if you don't HAVE boots?
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:17 PM
Mar 2013

Congratulations on your 10,000th post.

I pretty much hate the expression myself. I remember being told I had to pay my dues, bide my time, etc. Many people manage to break the chain of poverty but it's not simply because they "wished" for it and if they just wished harder, they could pull themselves up by their boot straps. (!)

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
53. Thanks, Phentex, it's great to be here.
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 05:28 PM
Mar 2013

I don't care if someone has boots or not----they will not get anywhere by pulling those bootstraps.

I forgot about all the other expressions successful people use to demean people beneath them....like we all don't pay our dues! I would like to see those successful ones pay some of the dues that the poor have paid. Let's call it like it is----luck. Luck of birth, or luck of IQ, or luck of choosing just the right career path at just the right time, or luck of picking the best investment at just the right time.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
55. Congrats for reaching that milestone!....
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:23 AM
Mar 2013

About bootstraps, seems to me people would first need to have the boots with straps before they could attempt that impossible feat. Who the hell can afford those? They don't just give those things away ya know.

I've never liked that saying.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
57. Thanks, Little Star.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:03 PM
Mar 2013

I agree that you do need boots first, but the point really is that this expression makes no sense, and it is used all the time...makes me wonder if it is intentional. Do these people who use it want us to just kill ourselves trying to do the impossible?

Good to see ya.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
61. Ya know, I think that 'some' people, especially if they have
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 07:32 AM
Mar 2013

a little or more money,erroneously believe they did it and so can you. Well, I call bullshit on that. I don't think anyone can become even middle class, never mind rich, without some type of help from others.

To me, that saying is one that people use to belittle others and/or to puff up themselves.

Good to see you too.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
56. Congrats
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:26 AM
Mar 2013

I'm closing in on the same mark. Maybe later this year. It's taken me a long time to get my post count up.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
58. Thank you, davidpdx. Fun to be here.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:07 PM
Mar 2013


It took me nearly three years to get here, and most of those posts were silly or just meant to kick a thread that I found interesting and worthy of being seen. Doesn't matter though, a post is a post, isn't it?

A HERETIC I AM

(24,376 posts)
59. Interesting.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:20 PM
Mar 2013

I just passed 10,000 posts the other day and it never occurred to me to start a thread about it.

Congratulations.

If you have, as I have, averaged less than 2.75 posts a day since you joined then you tend to read more than you post. Which is a good thing.


Oh. Look at that. Nope


Snark off

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
60. Thanks, A HERETIC I AM....I think.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:36 PM
Mar 2013

I really never figured I would be coming here this long....I tend to bore easily. So this really is something special for me....I got bored with Facebook within a month. So it is quite a compliment to DU and all the people here that they can keep my attention.

And don't feel bad that you have nothing to say. And that you didn't think of starting a thread.

Snark off-----congratulation to you too.

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