By the Short Hairs I Was Had...

[MineralMan]

So, yesterday afternoon around 2:30, my wife ventured down to my basement office and announced that she thought the furnace wasn't working. I wouldn't notice, because it's always about 64 degrees where I sit working, bundled up in a heavy shirt. When I checked the temperature upstairs, it was clear that she was correct.

Living in Minnesota has its challenges. Among those are March days where the temperature will drop into the single digits that night. That was the forecast for yesterday. So, a furnace that isn't working is something of an emergency situation. Clearly, some furnace technician would be visiting that afternoon.

Before calling for repairs, though, I decided to see if there was something I could do...something simple. I checked the thermostat for proper operation, using my handy-dandy multimeter. OK. Next, I pulled the two cover panels off the front of the furnace. I'm not a furnace expert, but I understand such systems in general, so I went through a typical diagnostic process. To make a long story short, it was clear that the blower that establishes air flow in the exhaust vent was not operating. Feeling the motor housing, it was quite hot, indicating that the fan couldn't turn. If that draft inducer blower doesn't run, the pressure switch that checks to see if it's running doesn't close, and the furnace can't start. A simple little electronic control board handles the sequence of events.

So, I wrote down the model and serial number for the furnace and the part number for the blower and motor assembly, knowing that information would be needed. Then I called the largest furnace company in St. Paul, figuring they'd have a technician available. I spoke to a very polite woman, explained my situation, and requested a same-day visit. She politely told me that I'd get a call in a few minutes from their service dispatcher. That happened, too. The dispatcher didn't ask for the information I had written down, but I gave it to her anyway, along with my assessment of what was wrong. She said that I was second in line for an available technician and that he'd be calling me before coming.

About an hour later, I got a call from the technician, who had finished the job ahead of mine. The dispatcher had given him the information and my diagnosis. Skeptically, he asked me what made me think it was the draft inducer blower. I explained my diagnostic process, and he agreed. He didn't have that particular part in his van, so he said he'd go to the distributor and get one before coming to my house.

Cool. So, my next step was to go online and see how much such a blower cost. With the information I had, I found several sources, along with the price. Now, I could replace that blower myself without any problem. A few screws and one wiring plug and the job would be done. However, I couldn't get one for a couple of days. Again, Minnesota weather interfered by demanding that the furnace get fixed now, not two days from now. At this point, after seeing the online price for the blower, I could tell that I was going to be had by the short hairs on this one.

So, the technician showed up, blower in hand and tool bag over shoulder. I escorted him to the furnace, where he confirmed that my diagnosis was correct. He showed me the invoice for the cost of the repair. Sure enough, the furnace company had doubled the price I had seen online, and there was a minimum service fee of two hours. "Yah, sure, OK, you betcha," I said to the technician, since any furnace company I called would do the same thing. My furnace needed to be repaired that day. What's a guy to do?

Here's the issue that made my decision even more annoying. There is a large distributor of HVAC parts right here in St. Paul. That's the very place where the technician had gone to get my new, doubly-priced blower. Why didn't I just drive over there and get one myself and install it? Because that distributor will only sell furnace parts to furnace companies. I had looked that up, too. Such policies are almost always unbendable, sadly, and they're there for the profit of the furnace company and the distributor, but also because the average homeowner has no business swapping parts on furnaces. I have unusual skills for a homeowner.

Anyhow, about 15 minutes later, the new part was installed, the furnace was pumping out warm air, and my checking account balance was reduced by a larger amount than was comfortable just now. I could only shrug. In Minnesnowta, you gots to have a working furnace, and you gots to have it right away if it breaks.

Still, the technician had work, as did the counter guy at the HVAC parts distributor, the service dispatcher, and the person who answers calls at that furnace company. I got my furnace back online, and they have jobs. That's the trade-off. I still could have fixed it myself for about a third of what I paid, but cold weather and trade restrictions by HVAC parts distributors made that impossible. Oh well. Once again, by the short hairs I was had.

Edit to add: My wife just informed me that one of my web content clients finally paid a rather large invoice that was 90 days old. The funny thing is that the client is an HVAC company in another city. Turnabout's fair play, I guess.

[Bonobo]

1. You helped support a vital part of your local economy.

Too bad about your checking account, but it's a better use of money than many IMO.

[MineralMan]

2. Yah, well, that's good, then.

Frustrating, but good.

[phantom power]

3. your skills may have saved you from getting ripped off...

I've had the pleasure of dealing with a lot of really skilled, stand-up tradesmen and technicians, but then I've run across some who were either terrible trouble-shooters, or dishonest, or both. Knowing what the problem was, and how much the parts *should* cost, may still have saved you from getting straight-up ripped off, instead of just being over the barrel

I generally try to do basic electrical and plumbing jobs myself. Last year, I had a leaking shutoff valve under the sink. My wife was out of town, and between kid and job, I just didn't have the afternoon to spare on it, so I called a plumber. He came fast, got the job done quickly (and rather faster than I'd have gotten it done), and didn't charge any emergency fees. It was pretty close to $200. It had been a long time since I'd paid for a plumber, and that was real eye-opener



It made me think about what it's like for people who can't change out a valve, or sweat a pipe, replace an electrical switch, etc. Those kind of repairs aren't too uncommon, and paying a professional for that shit is expensive.

Oh well, like you say, those guys are skilled (usually) and they have a right to make a living too.

I've always wondered about the huge markup on parts, as a business model. Naively, I'd just charge the parts at cost (which I'd assume to be less than what I'd pay retail), and make the profit I need to on labor, since skilled labor and expertise is really the thing I'm selling if I'm in that kind of business. (or for that matter, my kind of business too).

[MineralMan]

6. Yup. I have all of the skills needed to build a house from

the ground up, including all systems. I'm also a good hand at diagnosing and repairing just about anything. I thank my father for those skills, along with a career writing how-to articles for magazines on many different subjects.

I understand the markup thing perfectly well. The cost of repairing such systems isn't just the wages paid the technician. All of those other people I mentioned in the OP also get paid. Parts markups are how businesses pay their overhead, frankly. I expect a 100% markup on parts from wholesale. I knew when I saw the price of that part, which was too high at the wholesale level, frankly, that my cost would be double that. That's the usual markup on repair parts for these things.

And the wholesale price also includes another 100% markup from the manufacturer's price, which is much higher than the value of the individual components. Markups are how business is done. I don't have to like them, but they are a reality. The policy of the parts distrubitor to only sell to HVAC companies is done for several reasons. One is to protect their customers from do-it-yourselfers like me. The other is safety. The average person might not do an HVAC part replacement properly, and that can be very dangerous. Lawsuits often ensue. So, those wholesale distributors don't sell parts at retail. Now, there were plenty of sources online for the part, but the delivery is slow, requiring at least 24 hours, even if you had it shipped overnight. In this particular case, 24 hours was too long. I'd have had to shut down the house, drain the water from the plumbing system, and find another place to stay with two cats and a dog.

Such are the joys of living in a northern state. As I said, I understand why the repair cost so much. I didn't complain to the technician or to anyone else. That's the reality of it. I didn't like it much, but there it is.

[phantom power]

9. The safety issue is an interesting point

There are definitely things I won't mess with, if I think the consequences of fucking it up would be too high. (I'm not saying I've ever set things on fire with a soldering torch, but I'm not saying I haven't either) Any systems involving natural gas combustion I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I certainly get that parts manufacturers and distributors have to make their profit on markup (how else could they make it).

I just figure that if I was, say, a plumber, I have *two* options for making my profit: I can markup any parts I use, and/or I make it on my labor. In theory, I might say it's simpler to charge no markup on parts, and make my profit purely on labor. If I tried to run a real plumbing business with that theory, maybe I'd find my business wouldn't last very long, but it seems like it *could* work.

[MineralMan]

10. I had a handyman service in California for

a couple of years. I supplied parts and materials at my cost and just charged for labor. It worked OK, but I was too small to get reasonably good discounts on the materials, so that was really my best choice at the time. My bill always included the receipt from the place I got the materials, so the customer could see that I wasn't charging more than I paid.

[MattBaggins]

32. Knowledge did help him

"Your thermostat coupler is broken"
"Is that expensive?"
"Do you know what it is?"
"No"
"It's expensive"

[siligut]

4. It is rigged to make work for technicians

My being a woman, I run into those sorts of minor obstructions whenever I fix something around the house or the vehicles. I order as much as I can from Amazon, that way my gender isn't a factor.

But trade restrictions? I believe that is intended to keep businesses in work.

Glad you are warm again and nothing blew-up or burned down

[KittyWampus]

5. It's also a safety issue. Do the wrong thing on your furnace and people could die.

And further, that company that sends out repairmen… they have to pay for an office, secretary, stock, workers, workers comp, managers, vans, rent for building and lastly GASOLINE to get vans out to calls.

[MineralMan]

8. Yup. It's a long chain that gets your furnace fixed.

And the safety issue is an extremely important one. I really recognize that, which is why I'm not really beefing about the cost. It's just an inconvenience. A dead furnace is an emergency here.

[KittyWampus]

11. I tried to get someone to install a stockade fence here. I wanted to get the fencing, stain it and

then hire a company to install the posts.

Not going to happen.

No one got back to me. My only option is hiring them to do the whole thing.

If I could dig down to the necessary 2 feet I would… but it's a heck of a job.

[MineralMan]

12. You can rent a gasoline powered

auger to make the post holes. You'll need two people to operate it, and you should pre-mark where the holes go before going to rent it, since they charge by the hour. Then, one 60lb bag of redi-mix concrete for each post and you're done. You'll need a long bubble level and some string to mark your fence line. All the instructions are on the web. It's still some work, but you can do it all yourself. If that fails, try hiring a handyman, rather than a fence company. Much more economical.

[KittyWampus]

43. Hey there! I thought about that… and got feedback from a few people about Augers breaking

in the ground and getting stuck= screwed.

[MineralMan]

44. Depends on the soil type, I think.

I've used them, and to good effect, in my clayey soil here in Minnesota.

[hedgehog]

15. Couldn't have said it better, myself!

[MineralMan]

7. Those trade restrictions have two functions:

First, they protect the business relationships by limiting availability. But, they also protect people from their own lack of training in and knowledge of the systems involved. As I said, I have unusual skills. Most homeowners should not be screwing with their furnace. It's all OK, really.

[Thav]

13. Being from Iowa, I had a furnace fail too, and yes it's an emergency in the winter.

It was an older furnace, it just wouldn't kick on. I was able to trip it and get it on for a short while but it would shut off. I thought that it was much serious than I could handle, so in came the professionals. The guy tells me it's a cracked heat exchanger. "By law I'm supposed to shut off your gas now, but you seem smart. If you run your furnace, carbon monoxide will leak into your house." "Let's see, being cold for a while... or dying. Ya, we'll be cold." That evening they replaced the furnace with a new, high efficiency one. House was warm, heating bills dropped. Wallet was lighter, local economy gained biz.

That said, having your furnace serviced before every heating season is a good idea, it can save you costly repairs or replacements.

[X_Digger]

14. I ran into a similar situation with garage door torsion springs..

I ended up finding a distributor who would sell them to me- at 1/3 the price the local garage door company quoted.

That's another business that gets a lot of scam artists posing as tradesmen. They wanted to replace the tracks, the pulleys, the springs, and the opener because it was an older model that they didn't have stock springs for.

[MineralMan]

17. My local Ace Hardware stocks a full range of garage door

hardware. It's one of the reasons I love that store. They also have folks working there who can tell you about installing that hardware and things to watch out for. It's an old-fashioned hardware store. It's the only place I go.

A friend of mine owns a house built in the 1920s. There are a bunch of houses from that period. She had a problem with bathtub faucets that also dated back to that time. The plumber she called told her she'd have to replace everything, since there were no parts for her old faucets. He lied. Fortunately, she told me, so I went over there, disassembled her faucets and went to my Ace Hardware. There, I found all the parts needed to completely rebuild her vintage bathtub faucets. The problem was that she wanted to hang onto her old claw-foot cast iron bathtub, which was original to the house. And she wanted to retain the look of the old faucets that came with it.

So, we fixed them. One of the guys at the hardware store got into the spirit and helped us find what we needed.

[X_Digger]

23. I always start at my local ace..

.. but about 25% of the time, they don't have what I need.

They definitely didn't carry the large springs for my garage door, nor did lowe's or home depot. That's when I found out about the 'we only sell to installers' BS.

Garage door torsion springs aren't as scary as doing your own HVAC work, but apparently the pros con a lot of folks into thinking so.

[MineralMan]

25. You're right. They're not that scary. But, neither is replacing

parts on a furnace, as long as you know what you're doing. I had to repair my garage door, too, in the middle of winter in temperatures around zero. It was no fun. I had never worked on a garage door, but the internet came through, as usual, with step-by-step instructions for rewinding tension into those springs, including the correct number of turns.

But, my Ace hardware did actually have the springs in stock. Amazing.

[BainsBane]

16. You're contributing to the local economy

and the guy didn't say "Yah, sure, you betcha." We don't all talk that way. Give the stereotype a rest, please.

[MineralMan]

18. No, I didn't say that he said that. I put those words in my own

mouth. Perhaps you didn't read closely enough to see, "I said" following that line. I didn't actually say that, either, of course. When I do, it's a joke, and only to people who laugh at such jokes. As for the local economy, I covered that in the last paragraph of my OP. Yes, I understand that aspect, and appreciate it. Still, I was more or less forced to deal with it the way I did, because of the nature of our weather. Had it been last year, I'd have ordered the parts online and done the job myself. I couldn't do that, so I hired someone to do it for me. Stuff happens. I don't mind paying for it. It's all part of the process.

As for the stereotype, it's a fun one. People laugh about it. It's hardly a slur. But, thanks for your comments.

[BainsBane]

21. Don't take it so seriously

It wasn't meant that way.

[MineralMan]

22. It's impossible to read tone in a post.

You take many things seriously. How am I to know? I signal when I'm being light hearted in a post in some way, as I did in this OP. I had Hobson's choice with that furnace repair, which is the meaning of being had by the short hairs. It doesn't matter, but the point of the OP is in the last paragraph. Despite my frustration at not being able to save money on this simple job, I'm glad that the work helped keep several people employed. If everyone did things for themselves, those people from the HVAC company would be out of work.

That was the entire point of my wordy OP.

[BainsBane]

24. Okay, well in this case it wasn't meant to be heavy

I like you MM, and have defended you on a couple of occasions. I know you didn't grow up in Minnesota, like I did. The you betcha is funny, but it's also a stereotype. But hardly a big deal.

[MineralMan]

26. Well, the technician had a decidedly Iron Range

speech pattern. I always enjoy hearing that, and certainly didn't make fun of it at all to him. I'm a Minnesota Norsky by marriage, so I'm entitled.

[BainsBane]

28. I grew up in the cities

so "you betcha" has never been part of my vocabulary, but my students in FL used to get a kick out of my frequent use of the world "deal."

[MineralMan]

31. You don't hear it a lot in the cities, it's true.

But, it's still around in the speech of some Minnesotans. I find it charming. Funny, too, but charming. Regional speech patterns are a special interest of mine, as are all language-related issues. There's even a theater troupe in the cities that specializes in comedies about Lutheran church ladies. Their stuff is hilarious, albeit very broad. Most of the people in their audience relate to the humor because it's familiar stuff for them.

[BainsBane]

34. I've often thought

you could run a direct feed from MN cable access TV to Saturday Night Live. There is some funny stuff, from the guy in drag who gives cooking and travel trips to the very Minnesotan elderly couple with their big mouthed bass Christmas decor.

[MineralMan]

36. I love community television. It's always a hoot.

The one thing I don't like is that there's no published schedule and they don't provide schedule info to the cable provider, so you have to go to the channel to see what silliness is on. So, I don't watch it all that often. I've always thought a cable channel that broadcast the prime stuff from community channels across the country would be wonderful. I'd watch TV more if that was available.


From the guy you mentioned who does the food and travel show to Bubba showing you how to catch catfish, it's all good.

[MattBaggins]

33. My friend from Cali

says I say and whatnot too much but I'm from NY and never thought about it.

[MineralMan]

38. Yah, I have a lot of speech quirks and whatnot, myself.

I've assembled them from all sorts of places I've lived in my 67 years. I keep the ones I like and discard the rest.

[MattBaggins]

39. What parts of the country uses whatnot a lot.

[MineralMan]

40. I heard it a lot in South Dakota and Iowa.

There's a Dictionary of Regional English. It's a multi-volume thing, and very, very expensive. If there's a University library near you, they'll have it in their reference section. I covet it, but can't afford it. Eventually, probably later this year or next year, it will be searchable online. That will be most convenient, indeed.

Another interesting expression that I hear a lot in Minnesota, mostly from checkers in grocery stores is "at all."

It's used as follows:

"You want a bag for that at all?" or "Is there anything else you need at all?"

It's a fun one, since if you look closely at it, it's really meaningless. It's one of those tag-along expressions that doesn't really add meaning to a sentence, but is useful to end a question if you can't figure out how to end it otherwise.

So, "You want fries with that at all?"

[oldhippie]

19. My family stayed in a motel one night ....

... here in Texas while waiting on a condenser fan for our A/C. The motel was a lot cheaper than what an HVAC tech would charge to install the fan and the service call. Like you, I can fix a number of things myself, but other things I won't deal with (like plumbing). Each case has to be evaluated on it's benefits and costs, but many times we don't know the costs until they are accrued.

[MineralMan]

20. Yeah, that was an option for us, but we went the other way.

All things considered, I'm glad we did. The time lost from our work, too, would have been worth more than the cost of the job. We work at home, so it's a 24/7 thing at our house.

I do hate plumbing work, but I do it anyhow. I still hate it, though.

[Mnpaul]

27. It is common practice

to raise the price of parts. Mechanics get a discount price and charge retail. I don't blame the parts distributors either for restricting access. If they didn't they would have people coming in and buying more parts than what they need and returning the ones they don't use. Not everyone is capable of diagnosing the problem before buying the correct part.

[MineralMan]

29. Yes, of course it's a common practice.

I could have bought the part from half a dozen distributors on the Internet, anyhow. Sometimes I fix things myself. Sometimes I hire someone to fix them. I expected the price to be what it was. My heat is back on. As it turned out, another HVAC company ended up paying for the job with their check paying for my work rewriting their website. That's how it works.

[Mnpaul]

37. I fix my stuff as well

I run into the same thing with my VW. I can get quality German parts for cheaper prices off the internet but sometimes you need them right now and you have to bite the bullet.

Stay warm.

[olddots]

30. My furnace story

Furnace wouldn't light after a few hours of trying so I panicked got into the phone book and played service roulette .A guy in a 90.000$ truck shows up and tells me its a circuit board then does the fake call to see how muck it will cost.
He says 924 dollars and change I remember my anti violence training and tell him to watch out backing out of the drive way .Day #2
of no heat and I call a friend of a friend who shows up and asks if he could use my air compressor and blower to blow out some spider webs - we laugh and my faith in humanity was partially restored .

[MineralMan]

35. Knowledge is good. That's why I make it a point to learn

about systems that are part of my life. That's much easier, now that there's the Internet. But, I've always done that. It has saved me many times from scams. However, the technician who fixed my furnace didn't try to run any scams on me. He doesn't set the price for the parts. He was efficient, courteous, and knowledgeable. I got billed for two hours, and he got out in 20 minutes. He had time to take another call that afternoon.

[Hestia]

41. You know the HVAC company doesn't really pay that priced showed to you, right?

Generally, the company will put down that charge on the invoice, but in 30 days, there will be a 40-60% discount, which is what the HVAC company is really charged. It all depends on what type of arrangement they have with the supplier. Bigger companies get the bigger discount.

[MineralMan]

42. I know many things, having worked in a service industry for a while.

The thing I know best, though, is that some things must be repaired, regardless. HVAC companies come and go. It's not a sure-fire success as a business, by any means. I work with an HVAC company on their websites. I completed a thorough rewrite of all of their content at the beginning of the year, and their business has increased. Yet, the company is still struggling, despite all that.

I know what they pay for furnaces, air conditioners, and parts. You're right, of course. However, it's still a difficult business to make successful. Very much time based, and staff-heavy. The market is very competitive, and many consumers price-shop HVAC intensely, forcing businesses to slice margins on new equipment paper-thin. Service and repair is profitable, as long as the technicians are busy. When they're not, they're a money pit.

There are no sure things in the services industry. None at all. It's a very fluid and perilous kind of business to be in.