Speaking of Benevolent Sexism how about this.......

[Little Star]

Live Science
By Stephanie Pappas, Senior Writer
03 December 2012

Is It OK For the Girl to Propose? No Way, Study Suggests

Despite loosening of gender roles at work and in society as a whole, men and women are remarkably traditional when it comes to marriage, new research finds.

In fact, the study of college students at a liberal-leaning university found that not a single man or woman wanted a proposal in which the woman asked the man to marry her. And while 60 percent of women said they were "very willing" or "somewhat willing" to change their surname to their husband's upon marriage, 64 percent of men said they were "very unwilling" or "somewhat unwilling" to do the same for their wives.

However, Robnett told LiveScience, the results suggest that the strongest believers in traditional marriage roles tend to be people high in benevolent sexism, or attitudes that women should be cherished, protected and given special treatment.

Interesting stuff, much more at link: http://www.livescience.com/25198-who-should-propose-marriage.html

[Helen Reddy]

1. Quite revealing.

Thank you!

[Nye Bevan]

2. Isn't that considered acceptable on February 29? (nt)

[talkingmime]

3. Firstly, what the hell does "benevolent sexism" mean?

Secondly, what is wrong with a woman proposing? I've never understood that.

[gollygee]

5. This has been a huge issue around here the past few days

due to so much misunderstanding about what it is.

Benevolent sexism is the idea that women need to be treated in a special and precious way. It makes women appear less capable, and can lead to groups of men trying to control women's rights because they assume we aren't capable of making decisions about how to handle, for instance, an unwanted pregnancy. It can lead to workplace discrimination too, because it seems gentlemanly to change a woman's tire for her, but OTOH if our society doesn't view women as capable of a rather uncomplicated task like changing a tire, we also won't be seen as capable in a workplace.

So it's sexism where the intention is good but the outcome can be negative.

[talkingmime]

6. Oh my. I may have contributed to this. Yes, women deserve to be treated...

... in a special way because they ARE special. I'm just a man. I'm not special. I'm just a man.

Women are something special. Note: This is NOT a sexist post.

Women are fully capable of anything a man can do, sometimes more capable. It isn't degrading for a man to hold a door for a woman than it is for a woman to hold the door for me because I've got a cane and a service dog. They held doors for me before that too.

My daughters all know how to change a tire. They know how to check the oil, change the oil, fill the radiator fluid, check the transmission fluid, check the tire pressure, fill the gas tank, and pretty much anything else you can do to a car. I taught them. I used to do all of that myself but I let the girls do it now.

Yes, women deserve to be treated in a special way. They need and deserve flowers. They need back rubs. They need a loofah rub in the bubble bath men draw for them. Is there anything wrong with showing appreciation for your female companion? My wife doesn't mind.

My woman treats me right. I'm disabled. She helps me into the bath and back out. She puts epsom salts in the bath for me to help my back. She helps me out of the bath and dries me off. She takes care of me in every way. Am I in the wrong if I take care of her? Am I wrong to appreciate her and treat her like a princess? I make her coffee. I bring her breakfast in bed. She deserves it because, well, she just does.

[gollygee]

9. Taking care of someone you love is a different issue

This isn't about specific people - it's more about societal standards.

Women are not more special than men. Women are not MORE capable than men - just as capable, and we should be treated as just as capable in the world. We don't need more caring than men. That doesn't mean that within relationships, men and women (or men and men or women and women) won't take care of each other out of love. That is an entirely different issue.

People with disabilities, both men and women, do need some assistance sometimes. That is also a different issue.

And, as I said, the door holding thing is a red herring.

[talkingmime]

10. The door holding thing is a blowback. It isn't an insult.

I'm in the just as capable camp, except that my wife and dauthers are WAY more capable than I am now. There was a time when I was more physically capable. That time is long in the past.

And it isn't a matter of taking care of someone you love. It's a matter of taking care of other people, animals, reptiles, whatever. I've blocked traffic to escort a duck and her chicks across a road. I've blocked traffic to escort a snapping turtle (70 lbs or so) to a safe place. I've blocked a 4-lane highway to help a turtle get to the other side and THEN fought traffic in the other direction to escort it to where it was going. NEVER put a turtle back from where it came. They know where they are heading and they'll just keep trying.

We're all passengers on this tiny little space ship we call Earth. If we can't help each other in every sense possible, why are we here?

It isn't a male/female issue. It isn't even a human/other issue. We have to all treat each other as equals and live by that standard. I need help, from male, female, or canine. Everyone takes care of me. My service dog does more than that, she protects me. She also carries my emergency pills. We both wear matching collars with pill cases.

Why can't we just get over this issue and be universally equal? Am I missing something here?

[gollygee]

11. If it's a human issue, it's irrelevant in regard to benevolent sexism

Benevolent sexism is only where you would treat women differently than men.

[talkingmime]

12. Sorry (LOL) I still don't understand the term.

Is treating women like they're special a bad thing? Women are. Okay, perhaps men might be too, but as a man that's not the way I think. Why shouldn't I treat my woman like a godess? She likes back rubs. She likes bubble baths. She likes breakfast in bed. She likes when I bring her coffee (with naughty Irish Creme), she likes, well, you know. Why is that so bad? We only go around once. I want her to feel like the most wonderful woman in the world, and arguably she is, but that's not the point. How is that "benevolent sexism" (and I still don't understand the term, by the way)?

Damn I like a good solid intelligent discussion. Thanks.

Oh, and my wife is getting a nice back rub tonight. She deserves it. I treat her like a godess and she likes it. I've been with her since '84 and I still think I'm the luckiest guy in the world.

"Ya gadda problems wiff dat?"

[gollygee]

13. Treating your wife like a goddess is awesome

Treating women in general like goddesses and differently than men is not great. Women are just people. This is not about your relationship with your wife (or SO - don't remember if you said your'e married or not.)

[talkingmime]

15. Yes, my wife. And yes, just a person. But she's still a godess in my mind.

I wouldn't trade her for anything. I haven't figured out why she likes me, but hey, she does, so why argue?

She's on the phone with my youngest daughter (almost 18) in another state. Getting old sucks.

[Little Star]

16. bingo

[pipi_k]

24. So tell me...

Do we women want to be treated the same as men all the time, or only some of the time?

[Little Star]

27. Post #13 answers that question pretty good.

[RedCloud]

4. Women have asked me out and even to marry...

So what's up with this?

[talkingmime]

7. I don't see the problem. It isn't the solitary domain of the male to do such things.

[treestar]

8. A woman cannot be "forward"

That is what we get ingrained into us. I've been accused of that without even ever asking anyone out. You can get that for flirting. Or you could as late as the 90s.

At the point of the proposal, it should not matter who does it - aren't they close enough not to have such issues?

[Little Star]

14. Hey your talking to the girl who said...

shit or get off the pot when it came to proposals. I just told my story in HOF about this issue if you want to read how I feel about it. But in short, I agree with what you said "At the point of the proposal, it should not matter who does it - aren't they close enough not to have such issues?"

[seabeyond]

23. ya. like the boy has to do the askin for a date. the girl lets them know. she does her own things

to get the message out to him to ask. so is he really the one taking the risk? or all by himself?

the same with marriage. he may be the one asked, but.... there are plenty of women that had the conversation ahead of time and it was not merely his doing.

[Little Star]

25. lol. Your right. In my life experiences most...

of the women I know didn't just sit around waiting to be asked. I never actually met a girl who was shocked that he asked her to marry him. Most had something to do with the fact that he did.

I never thought that was a bad thing either. Sometimes I thought that boys/men were more afraid of making that commitment than girls/women. Can't say I blame anyone because it is a big commitment to make. But like I said I think 'most' of the time it's the female driving that car. Could be wrong though but I doubt it.

[talkingmime]

17. Oh bullshit. My wife hunted me down a month after we met.

She showed up with some REALLY good pot. She came after me. That was early '85 (we met in '84). She was the aggressive one in the relationship and I'm not complaining. We've been married almost 26 years. I can't imagine having a better woman. I just can't.

[treestar]

19. I'm just relating how it was then

what my mother told me, or some other girl (who might have been jealous, who knows).

And I still don't know what I did that was so "forward." I was very shy and never asked anyone out.

[talkingmime]

20. That was the general attitude at the time. But if she hadn't hunted me,...

... we wouldn't be married now. I was too shy to hunt her down.

Weird how things work out, eh?

[Fumesucker]

18. My ex never asked me to marry her, it was more of an order

Pretty much the same as our divorce thirty years later.

[talkingmime]

21. Damn. That sucks. Sorry, dude. My parents divorced. It was terrible.

[seabeyond]

22. i haev said for a very long long time do not put me up on a pedestal.

i have absolutely no desire to have that pressure.

i spent all my childhood and beyond feeling the pressure of being a perfect person (thinking that is what my role was in my family). when i got rid of that, i refused to play any of the other games. no way.

a person.

no better. no worse. nothing more.

put ya up, only to knock you down.

[Little Star]

28. “A pedestal is as much a prison as any small, confined space.” ...

Gloria had that right.

[arcane1]

26. I was proposed to, and I even said "yes"

And I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that it only lasted 3 years. I'd say "yes" again if I ever want to re-marry

[Little Star]

29. Good on you. I loved being married.