i hold doors open for everyone

[arely staircase]

since this is now the benevolent sexism underground, i thought i'd get on the record. now the rest of you can too.

My door opening policy can best be described as (and the poll is based on the assumption that we are talking about men opening doors for women, it would have taken too many questions to get women's policy regarding opening doors for others, though it would be interesting, so feel free to comment):

34 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	(Men) I hold the door open for everyone coming from a relatively close distance
	24 (71%)
	(Men) I hold the door open for only women coming from a relatively close distance
	0 (0%)
	(Men) I hold the door open for everyone coming from any distance
	0 (0%)
	(Men) I open the door only for women coming at any distance
	0 (0%)
	(Men) I hold the door open for everyone (repeat, but can\\\'t delete since someone voted)
	0 (0%)
	(Men) I hold the door open for nobody
	1 (3%)
	(Women) I find men opening the door for me to be a simple courtesy
	9 (26%)
	(Women) I find it to be sexist when a man opens the door for me, even if benevolently so
	0 (0%)
	It is much more complicated than that, I will explain in the comment section (added at 7:05 CST)
	0 (0%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. I'm still waiting for Lindsey Graham to come out of one.

[Blue_In_AK]

2. If I get to a door before someone else coming behind me,

I open it and hold it for them. I'm a female. If someone holds the door for me, I thank them. I don't see why this is an issue for anyone. Haven't we got better things to argue about?

[Mass]

3. +1

[arely staircase]

4. that is my policy precisely

and my take on the whole thing. but i did think, given the dst-up here over it, a non-snarky poll would be interesting.

[redqueen]

9. The issue is benevolent sexism, and how it ties into rape culture. Not doors and who opens them.

This nonsense about doors is just a way to portray feminist issues as silly and not worthy of discussion, and drown anyone who attempts to discuss benevolent sexism out by creating a false sense of outrage about said door opening.

[marions ghost]

22. Right

Badly skewed poll. Not worthy of voting.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. one way to get people to take rape more seriously is to not pretend that everything is about rape.

Sexy ads? rape! Porn? rape! Someone calling someone else "Ma'am" at the grocery store? Rape!

No, rape is rape. Other things may piss you off, but they don't really have anything to do with "rape".

[arely staircase]

44. the poll is not about rape but rather

men opening the door for women and how the women perceive it - courtesy or archaic, sexist, even if well intentioned (benevolent) act.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. I know.

My answer is, I hold the door open for whoever is behind me, so it doesn't whack them when it closes.

[arely staircase]

60. i know you know

and me too - on the whacking prevention

[Katashi_itto]

77. I know that you know. Did you know I knew??

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Or to quote Zen Master Rumsfeld, there are known knowns and unknown knowns

and then there are the unknown unknowns.

[Katashi_itto]

98. Is that Known?

[Warren DeMontague]

99. No

[pintobean]

51. The issue is what the OP stated it is

not what you want the issue to be. This isn't your thread. You have a couple of threads addressing your issue.

[Blue_In_AK]

59. I missed all those discussions so I was just responding to the poll.

I guess I'm kind of oblivious to whatever this " benevolent sexism" is. I agree some guys are kind of boorish, but I'm not going to waste my time getting all bent out of shape about it. I used to have a boss back when I was working in the legal biz who called me "honey" and "baby" all the time ( he was probably 20-25 years older than me), but he was a wonderful person otherwise, just kind of old school and flamboyant. He really meant no harm and I knew he had a lot of respect for me and my work, so I let it slide.

Maybe I'm a sexism enabler, but I have other things to be outraged about.

[Summer Hathaway]

76. The issue is really about

how a term like 'benevolent sexism' is as meaningless as 'compassionate conservatism'.

Some dogs just don't hunt - and I've just cited two perfect examples thereof.

It seems the only people who are anxious to "portray feminist issues as silly and not worthy of discussion" are those who self-declare themselves as feminists, while they consistently indulge in a false sense of outrage over things as petty as door-opening.

[seabeyond]

81. except it was in this study about boobs, a thread for men to play in. this OP brought up benevolent

sexism and really had nothing to do with the feminist on this board. a question was asked. a definition was given. then people became OUTRAGED, i tell you. so you have an argument with benevolent sexism, go after all feminists and tell all feminist (you know, the academic kind), how they are full of shit in their studies and you know so much more.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2511124

[arely staircase]

89. what in god's name are you talking about?

eom

[Katashi_itto]

78. I don't think you really need anyone, for you to make feminist issues look silly

Pity too, because I take feminist issues rather seriously

[jazzimov]

10. Same here. I consider it common courtesy. nt

[karynnj]

65. +1 I always thought everyone does just this

[NMDemDist2]

5. AND as a woman I open doors for others n/t

[greatauntoftriplets]

6. I have mobility problems.

As a result, I appreciate anyone who holds a door open for me.

[SouthernLiberal]

21. I have some minor mobility issues

So I too, am always grateful for someone holding a door for me. It also makes me more aware of other people coming, so if I do get a door open by myself, I will happily hold it for someone coming behind me. (I'm female and over 50).

I did once encounter a female lawyer who was deeply offended by anyone holding a door for her. For her, I always made a point of closing the door in front of her.

[arely staircase]

70. for you, i always will

and most of us have mobility problems eventualy, so that seems like (at least) a societal courtesy everyone has an interest in continuing

[fishwax]

7. the options for women in your poll are rather limited

Most of the discussion I've seen has been critical of social norms that view women as more frail/in need of assistance, rather than critical of individual acts of door opening.

[arely staircase]

20. i cover that (i thought)

with the second option for women. "i think it is sexist, even if benevolently so. now you can expand on that here in the comments part. But I assumed what you are saying would fall under that.

[marions ghost]

23. More options for men than women

Women just get an either/or (as usual). Men get all the shades of grey.

But you knew that didn't you?

[arely staircase]

37. yes i was well aware of it and anticipated it would be noticed

but what we are talking about is men's actions and women's positive or negative opinion of it. i tried to cover that dichotomy fairly in as few questions as possible either way. i didn't give men or women a 'why' option because that is what the comment section is for.

[marions ghost]

38. You'll get the answers you want

...everyone else will smell a rat.

[fishwax]

28. I see your point, though it still puts the focus on an individual act

&quot Women) I find it to be sexist when a man opens the door for me, even if benevolently so"

The individual act "when someone holds a door open for me" is an entirely different thing from the issue that was initially being made with the dicsussion of benevolent feminism (some people view women as frail, etc.). I haven't seen anyone say that when someone holds a door open for them they think that individual act is sexist.

I would think that many of the women who have been talking about been benevolent sexism (which has been distorted into this weird opening doors flamefest) would very likely say that they take the individual act as a courtesy. And, at the same time, they realize it may or may not, in this individual case, reflect a view of gender relations that is ultimately harmful to women. And it's that view that they're concerned with, not the act of someone holding the door for them.

[arely staircase]

40. please see recently added choice 9 em

[bettyellen]

31. you thought wrong, LOL.

[Walk away]

8. I am a woman who holds doors open for women and men. I think it's just a njce gesture!

If someone holds a door open for me I say "Thank you" and mean it. When I hold a door open I generally get thanked.

Gentlemen, think about holding doors open for men as well. That way if a women objects to your help next time, you can smile and say you do the same for men too!

[Myrina]

35. Agreed 100%

n/t

[TexasBushwhacker]

48. Me too

It just seems rude if someone is right behind you to not step aside and hold the door for them, regardless of sex or age.

[RC]

11. This whole door opening on DU lately comes across as nothing more than the discussions of old when

they were arguing about how many Angels could dance on the head of a pin

It is just a courtesy, being nice, to even strangers. That's it, period. Who cares their gender?
DU seems to be moving farther and farther from the real world into real estate on pin heads somehow being important.

[Duer 157099]

12. I hold the door open for everyone coming from a relatively close distance

barely even look at who they are. And I'm female.

[arely staircase]

15. i think that is what most people do

i do, and so do most men and women i encounter. usually everyone opens the door for me and i for them, depending on who s walking up at a distance it seems poper to open the door. the only time i do the door opening for someone from a distance is if they seem infirm and might struggle with the door.

[Duer 157099]

19. Agree.

What I don't like is when I'm sufficiently far away and someone, usually a male, stands there holding the door open, waiting for me. Then I have to hurry. I'd rather they didn't wait so I don't have to rush.

[arely staircase]

25. me too, and i am a man

and that is probably the main reason i don't do the door opening from a distance thing for anyone other than say an elderly person with a walker, it puts a burden on the other courtesy and thus can no longer truly be a courtesy imho

[Common Sense Party]

13. I'll hold the door for either if they're close by.

I am much more likely to hold a door for a woman if they're a ways off, or for any elderly people, male or female. Yes, I am sexist and ageist. Shun me.

[arely staircase]

17. the ways off door hold

i only do ways off door hold for the elderly, benevolent ageism one might call it, but i really only do it if they seem frail - and only an a$$hole wouldn't hold the door for them regardless of the distance and wait time.

[Walk away]

43. I do the "sprint ahead" door hold for people with...

baby carriages. I took care of my nieces for a few weeks when they were babies and getting through a door pushing a kid by yourself is a pain in the ass!

[arely staircase]

47. the sprint ahead!

excellent contribution!

[Walk away]

80. Especially since I don't sprint like I used to!...nt

[madville]

14. That means you are only sexist half the time

Just kidding of course

[olddots]

16. Oy what ever happened to manners ?

[LittleBlue]

18. For women, any distance. For men, if they're right behind me

or carrying a heavy load. For the disabled or elderly, any distance.

It's kind of a guy code violation to wait around holding the door for another guy. Guys just usually push it far enough so the guy behind them doesn't have the door slam in his face, but I'll never turn around and wait. Did that once without thinking and got a strange look.

[arely staircase]

30. yes the heavy load!

everyone should hold the door open in the heavy load scenario. and your observations on male-male door opening is spot on too. i don't do that but i do at least get that (minimal effort push from other males.) now as for the stand around for another guy, i will do that for men or women only if they are infirm, and even then you feel like you are making them hurry up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I might add, I open the door for everybody as well

I am a woman.

[lunatica]

26. If someone is right behind me I'll hold the door long enough for them to hold it

I also hold the door for the handicapped, and the elderly. I also appreciate when someone does the same for me.

[ZOB]

27. I always hold the door, but do it differently for some people.

Women, old people, those with difficulties in mobility, people with packages, etc: I hold the door open and let them enter before me.

Able-bodied young men: I walk through and hold the door so they just have to grab it and keep it open when they walk through.


Yes, I'm a benevolent sexist and ageist and abilityist and free-handedist. Shoot me.

[Walk away]

46. I think the "hand off" you use solves the male /male door hold problem! nt

[ZOB]

49. I know that I feel a little weird when a guy holds the door for me and lets me walk through first.

I mean, he got there first, he gets to go through first.

I kinda like the hand off.

[Iris]

29. You forgot a couple - Woman - I hold the door open for everyone

The structure of the poll just speaks volumes. Volumes.

[NYC Liberal]

32. I do it for anyone at a close distance.

Too far away, and not only am I standing there holding the door, but sometimes the other person feels pressure to rush because of it (and I don't want to make them feel that way).

There's always that awkward distance where they're close enough that if you let the door close, it'll close in their face, but far enough that you'll be standing there for waiting for them to get there.

[arely staircase]

39. I think the close distance is critical eom

[NYC Liberal]

41. Me too.

Like I said, standing and holding the door for someone a ways away isn't much of a bother for me, but I don't want them to feel like they have to rush!

[Agnosticsherbet]

33. Women, the elderly, and wheel chair bound, and people with other infirmities.

I was taught it was a matter of respect and not an attempt to keep them in their place.

I knew I was getting old when some young kid held the door open for me.

[Tikki]

36. (Woman) If it's in my space to open the door, I open it for any or all to go through...

Most say 'Thank You'. No one has ever criticized. Some reach out and take over the door, sometimes.


That's the way it rolls around here.


Tikki

[Apophis]

42. ...

[ZombieHorde]

45. I voted "(Men) I hold the door open for everyone coming from a relatively close distance," but

when I am in a smart-ass mood, I sometimes hold the door open for someone who is far away, just to see if they will scurry to the door.

eta: The bit about benevolent sexism is off, and you are arguing against yourself.

[whatchamacallit]

50. So after all the accusations nobody has the courage to own #8?

Wtf?

[arely staircase]

86. nope

eom

[gopiscrap]

52. I just do it as common courtesy

and don't differentiate if it is a man or woman.

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. Much more complicated...

I hold doors for both sexes going in or out and coming from a moderately close distance (less than 50 feet) but I NEVER make eye contact, and I do not smile.

I step aside, hold the door, and assume a submissive posture, looking down until the stranger passes.

Sometimes I get caught in a pattern of four or five people all maybe 15-20 feet apart and wind up holding the door for them all. Once, I got stuck at the mall doors letting people in and out for almost 10 minutes. When that was over, my neck was sore from looking down for so long.

[whatchamacallit]

54. Lol!

[arely staircase]

55. that must take a flow-chart

you process like the terminator.

[pa28]

67. Did anybody bother to tip you?

Holding a door for ten minutes at a shot seems like a long time for an amateur.

[appleannie1]

57. I am a woman and I open doors for others, no matter their gender

[abelenkpe]

58. Wha?

Why no (woman) I hold doors open for everyone?

I hold doors. Especially for people carrying lots of stuff. Y'know...cause I would hope someone would do the same for me when in need.

Whats all this door stuff anyway?

[LittleBlue]

61. A DUer earlier gave opening doors for women as an example of sexism n/t

[arely staircase]

62. aaddressed "women opening the door for men" scenario in the OP

eom

[Warpy]

63. It is simple courtesy

Not to let the door close in the face of someone directly behind you.

Gender's got nothing to do with it.

However, do acknowledge anyone who holds a door for you with a "thank you," no matter their gender. They just saved you a black eye.

[arely staircase]

73. +1 eom

[karynnj]

64. Why no option for women to hold doors open?

I have always opened and held open the door if I was the first one to it - especially if it would help someone carrying packages or pushing a baby in a stroller. I think this is what most of my friends - male or female do.

Opening a door does not require strength or skill. It is hard to believe the issue being made of it.

[Quantess]

66. Fuck this poll!

Why are the options different for men vs women????

No way am I answering this bullshit poll.

[Cali_Democrat]

75. LOL

I think it's called a push poll

[pintobean]

82. As opposed to a pull poll

[arely staircase]

85. awesome vid clip. eom

[gollygee]

68. Wow. You folks are really enjoying this strawman

Love how biased the poll is.

[arely staircase]

90. person

strawperson

[gollygee]

91. The term comes from scarecrows

I suppose there could have been some female scarecrows but I've only ever seen pictures of male ones. As much as a scarecrow can be male or female. Maybe "fashioned to appear to be a man" would be a better way to phrase it.

[arely staircase]

92. that's it

a strawfashionedtoappeartobeaman it shall be

[gollygee]

94. I am impressed

that you have found a way to make a strawman argument out of the word "strawman." That takes talent.

Whoever coined the term could have called it "scarecrow argument" I guess.

[arely staircase]

95. made fun of me and then

a little part of you thought, wait, they could have said scarecrow, maybe it is kinda sexist.

lol

[TexasProgresive]

69. For everyone-but this takes me to the way-back machine

In 1968 I was at the University of Houston. I held doors open for men, women and children without a thought. It is the polite thing to do. My friend, Tommy and I had a lot of classes together and several times we attempted to hold a door open for women students who responded with angry words or glares that could freeze the sun.

So we thought, maybe we should not hold the door for women and for that we got the same treatment. Well we shrugged our shoulders and reverted to our former polite ways and let it roll off our backs.

I mean, what you gonna do?

[LWolf]

71. Other.

I'm a woman, and hold the door open for anyone near me. I don't discriminate against those who get to the door before I do; I thank them for holding it. I'm an equal opportunity door holder.

On the rare occasions that I am a passenger in a car, instead of the driver, I open my door and get out when the car is put in park. On the rarer occasion that a man tries to open the door for me, we both get confused, as the door usually collides with him as he's reaching for the handle, because I'm already opening it. It's awkward. He's awkward about having gotten in the way, I'm awkward about thinking that I shouldn't make him feel bad for trying to be courteous, but I don't really want to sit around and wait for anyone to "serve" me.

[s-cubed]

72. Why did you have so many options for men compared to women?

For example, I would have answered that I hold the door open for anyone within a reasonable distance, and I thank anyone who hold it for me. I am a 67 year old woman

[arely staircase]

100. i addressed that in thop

but it is because everyone only gets one vote, so since i wanted to gauge men's actions and women's opinions on th subject. so i put something for as many actions a man might take, and women could chose how the felt about it. if i had put options for women holding doors for people those same women couldn't vote on how they felt aboyt men doing it.

[liberal_at_heart]

74. okay I voted that I find men opening the door a simple courtesy but I have to ask

why is there not an option for women to vote that they hold the door open for everyone? I am a woman who holds the door open for everybody and appreciates it when other women and men hold the door open for people. It is a simple human courtesy that all genders can appreciate.

[MotherPetrie]

79. Why in the hell didn't you include the option for women to hold the door open for everyone?

[PassingFair]

83. Because holding doors open is so tortuously chivalrous it wouldn't even OCCUR to a woman!

EVERYONE I know, man or woman, holds the open for whomever is behind them, or for the person burdened with packages, etc.

Jeebus!

What about double doors?

We have two doors to go through.

I hold the door open for the guy if he's behind me,
he holds the next one open for me.

The alternative is an awkward dance at the second door.

[seabeyond]

84. i actually apologized to an older man the other day who chivalrously went to hold the door for me.

it was all over his face. he was just beautiful in the joy of sweepingly holding the door. but my body had already gone in the direction of another door. and i was not about to change direction as i am reaching for that door, to walk into the one he was holding open.

i felt so bad. and smiled... apologized, and shrugged.

i had forgotten

after days here, i am thinking those men the loudest are actually showing self as the very benevolent sexism that is being defined. and no, not the end of the world or a big deal, but something to think about.

[arely staircase]

88. jeebus indeed

i explained that in the op

[arely staircase]

87. explained in the OP eom

[pipi_k]

97. Some thoughts...

I enjoy it when a man, for whatever reason, holds a door for me, or otherwise treats me a little differently than he would treat his male buddies.

Men: I'm not your buddy. I don't enjoy hearing you fart. I don't want to be called "asshole", "dickhead", or whatever favorite names you and your buddies have for each other. You want to play stupid practical jokes on each other? Great. Don't do it to me.

Women who think we shouldn't be treated any differently from men for whatever reason just because we're women: Am I perpetuating "benevolent sexism" by asking to be treated differently? Who cares.

Because here's the thing...unless you're all happy with being treated just like "one of the guys", then you're guilty of cherry-picking through this issue. "Oh, I want to be treated equally here...but not there". Sorry...that just doesn't fly.

And...for anyone who thinks my attitude perpetuates "benevolent sexism", I have a question...if you suspect a man is being a "benevolent sexist", do you immediately call him out on it? Immediately and very vocally?

Because if you don't, you are, IMO, enabling the behavior you profess to dislike so much.

[PDJane]

101. Since I am 'mobility impaired', I find someone, man or woman, holding a door open for me

to be a courtesy, and I'm grateful. Usually, I have things in my hands (I'm a caregiver for an elderly parent) and I appreciate all the help I can get.

[In_The_Wind]

102. I am a woman who believes in holding the door open for others.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

103. I've been known to want a door to hit someone in the ass on the way out.

[Evoman]

104. If I see a women coming, I push the door open as far as I can as I'm going through it

and then watch to see if she gets through the door before it smacks her in the ass. Unless she looks like she can take me...like a Sarah Conner type of woman. What I do in that case is yell "Hasta la Vista, baby" and run as fast as I can after slamming the door in her face.

If it's a man coming, I ask him if he is a benovelent sexist. If he says yes, I hold the door open and say, "After you, my dear gentleman". If he says no, I accuse him of smelling like elderberries and then fart in his general direction. If he looks at me confused, I slam the door in his face...that's what he gets for not being a DUer.